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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
the whole letting 25k people in over 6 weeks also makes an absolute sham out of the people who are legitimately trying to immigrate to this country.
There was a story not too long ago of a man who owned a shwarma place, might have been downtown, cant remember. Anyways, the guy has moved here, established a successful business, built up roots, and has been trying for the last 2 years to bring at least portions of his family over to Canada.
So a guy, who has legally migrated to Canada, worked his ASS off to make something of himself, and has taken all the proper avenues in order to bring his family over here has been in limbo for 2 years to bring a wife and young children over to Canada
Yet.. we are willing to bring people, who in a lot of cases have absolutely no legitimate background records, coming from war torn areas known to willingly harbor 'extremists' and essentially open the gates for them, providing housing, social assistance, health care, etc. etc.
in SIX WEEKS NO LESS?
Jesus.. some people here sure are short sighted in their views.. Bleeding hearts claiming racism and bigotry over a call to judgement on having arguably the highest risk refugee's ever seen by the world basically skip all proper forms of emigration and be awarded a passport on arrival?
Yes, Canada is a melting pot of cultures and peoples, and thats whats makes it so great. But as i said on the last page, this scenario is unlike one there has ever been.
I know plenty of immigrants, and I myself am basically a 3rd generation Canadian on my fathers side. However, of all the immigrants i know, or am a part of. None have came to Canada this way. Not one person who ever came here from elsewhere and made something of themselves who i know was given a free pass. They scraped tooth and nail to become a Canadian citizen, worked harder than most people will ever know, and are PROUD of what they did and what they have become.
PROUD to be a Canadian.
Hand out free passes like it's a playland ride and healthcare to some guy who got on a boat to Europe because they knew hand-outs awaited them there? fuckk...
Scary times.
As mentioned, refugee vs immigrant. Different requirements, different process, different screening, etc., etc.
I'm what's considered to be a 1.5 generation Canadian. Why is that relevant? Well, my grandparents immigrated to Canada under refugee status after WW2. Nothing particularly odd about that, I know. However, what makes in interesting is that my Opa was part of General Rommel's Afrika Korps. Sure, he was conscripted and he was merely a field doctor, but he still had the Nazi stigma attached to his name. And yet, even after WW2 ended, he and the rest of his family still managed to gain refugee status here in Canada. He wasn't antisemite (as far as I have been able to gather, at least lol), but he was still an evil German Nazi in the eyes of the general public.
I bring this up because, well, part of the whole acceptance of taking in refugees is believing that people who need help deserve what we can give. It's a chance of having a better life, away from persecution or illegal prosecution.
I'm half asleep, but I know my point is made in there somewhere. Might just have to read between the lines more than usual. lol
I know my family came here from eastern Europe after the end of WW2 and I'm so very thankful they had the opportunity.
Dude, that means you're a fucking communist! How did you even get in here??
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Originally Posted by Mr.C
My family came in legally and passed through all the proper security checks, because there are a ton of people in Brazil that will fuck you up if given the chance.
So why take the chance? Do the proper checks, help out people who are considered low risk, and it's all fine and dandy.
I must have missed the part where there's no plan to actually do regular refugee screening on these Syrians. I mean, people keep going on as if they're just all going to be allowed to step off the plane and disappear into the fabric of the country, but I've never seen a statement from the government that it's actually going to be that easy. Sounds like a bunch more paranoid fearmongering to me.
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Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp
What who are screen properly, ppl who have a legal background back in their home country that can be track be.
And how did YOU get into the country?? Speak fucking English or go back where you came from
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All the nearby countries isn't accepting any refugee is there something they know that we aren't aware?
Maybe... or maybe they're just all reactionary like so many people over here. Main difference, of course, is that refugees have been streaming in by land with little to stop them until recently. There's a few thousand miles of water stopping that from happening here.
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Originally Posted by Hondaracer
the whole letting 25k people in over 6 weeks also makes an absolute sham out of the people who are legitimately trying to immigrate to this country.
Ummm.... THIS:
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Originally Posted by Tapioca
There's a difference between refugees and regular immigrants: we let refugees in on an expedited basis because we have reason to believe that they would face persecution or murder in their home countries. When it comes to refugees, it's a matter of life or death. The international community recognized long ago that refugees are particular cases that require special attention.
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Originally Posted by tiger_handheld
If French intel can't screen these folk, I highly doubt CSIS can do any better.
As far as I've heard, these bombers were not among the Syrian refugees, so "French intel screening these folk" really isn't relevant. I recall hearing (I'll try to find a link) that one of them that was killed was identified and his movements tracked, and he bounced around a few different places on route to Paris, and the only connection to the refugees was that he'd stopped off for a day or two in a refugee camp before moving along on his own.
"At least one of the suicide bombers was a French citizen called Omar Ismail Mostefai, who was known to security services... who lived in Chartres, south west of Paris."
"AFP reported this morning that Mostefai was born on November 21 1985 in the poor Paris suburb of Courcouronnes."
BORN IN FRANCE. NOT AN IMMIGRANT, NOT A REFUGEE.
"French police have put out a request for witnesses in search of Belgium-born Abdeslam Saleh, calling him dangerous."
Also NOT A REFUGEE.
"Bilal Hadfi has been named in the media as one of the terrorists who attacked the Stade de France. He reportedly fought with Isil in Syria and lived in Belgium prior to the attacks."
Traveling from Belgium to France is almost as easy as traveling from BC to Alberta, so what kind of immigration/refugee screening would have stopped him?
"Likewise, in August, a Frenchman arrested on his return from Syria after a short stay in Raqqa mentioned instructions from Isil to target a concert hall."
Again, NOT A REFUGEE, but another French citizen attacking his own homeland.
"In September, three Americans foiled a gun attack by Ayoub El-Khazzani, a Moroccan jihadist, on a Paris-bound Thalys train he boarded in Brussels."
Not a refugee, not an immigrant, not a Syrian... just someone who hopped on a train like any other tourist.
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Originally Posted by Godzira
Does anyone know how many to a signature?
..
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Originally Posted by Brianrietta
Not a sebberry post goes by where I don't frown and think to myself "so..?"
I come from a country where 200 people are murdered every. fucking. day. Violence is rampant. My family came in legally and passed through all the proper security checks, because there are a ton of people in Brazil that will fuck you up if given the chance.
So why take the chance? Do the proper checks, help out people who are considered low risk, and it's all fine and dandy.
Edit: Or don't. Start letting Brazilians in indiscriminately, and those little gang wars in Surrey will look like kids playing cops and robbers.
That's the real risk.
Are you really trying to compare Brazil with Syria?
__________________ Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
Are you really trying to compare Brazil with Syria?
Yes. UN says that around 200k have been killed in the last 4 years in Syria. Brazil has an average of 70k murders per year. Brazil has had roughly one million homicides from 1984-2014. That's, like, more deaths than Iraq War I + II. Or twice the number of US casualties in WWII.
Although we're not in a declared state of war, we have bombings, mass assassinations where a guy with a gun will walk into a bar and shoot 40 people, and general lawlessness.
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Can we just call a spade a spade and say yes, we actually don't give a fuck about the killings In these other countries which happen on a "daily" basis compared to a western "safe" nation like France?
Honestly, in places like Lebanon, in the last 20 years there have been more years of terror and violence than not. Places where home grown terror runs rampant and outside forces come and go, truly, I don't care.
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Dank memes cant melt steel beams
Yes. UN says that around 200k have been killed in the last 4 years in Syria. Brazil has an average of 70k murders per year. Brazil has had roughly one million homicides from 1984-2014. That's, like, more deaths than Iraq War I + II. Or twice the number of US casualties in WWII.
Although we're not in a declared state of war, we have bombings, mass assassinations where a guy with a gun will walk into a bar and shoot 40 people, and general lawlessness.
Brazil also held the last world cup of soccer and is holding the next summer Olympics.
__________________ Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
"At least one of the suicide bombers was a French citizen called Omar Ismail Mostefai, who was known to security services... who lived in Chartres, south west of Paris."
"AFP reported this morning that Mostefai was born on November 21 1985 in the poor Paris suburb of Courcouronnes."
BORN IN FRANCE. NOT AN IMMIGRANT, NOT A REFUGEE.
"French police have put out a request for witnesses in search of Belgium-born Abdeslam Saleh, calling him dangerous."
Also NOT A REFUGEE.
"Bilal Hadfi has been named in the media as one of the terrorists who attacked the Stade de France. He reportedly fought with Isil in Syria and lived in Belgium prior to the attacks."
Traveling from Belgium to France is almost as easy as traveling from BC to Alberta, so what kind of immigration/refugee screening would have stopped him?
"Likewise, in August, a Frenchman arrested on his return from Syria after a short stay in Raqqa mentioned instructions from Isil to target a concert hall."
Again, NOT A REFUGEE, but another French citizen attacking his own homeland.
"In September, three Americans foiled a gun attack by Ayoub El-Khazzani, a Moroccan jihadist, on a Paris-bound Thalys train he boarded in Brussels."
Not a refugee, not an immigrant, not a Syrian... just someone who hopped on a train like any other tourist.
Statement by the Deputy Minister of Citizen Protection Nikos Tosca on terrorist attacks in Paris
The Deputy Minister of Citizen Protection Nikos Toskas announces the following:
"On the case of the Syrian passport found at the scene of the terrorist attack.
We announce that the passport holder, had passed from Leros on 03.10.2015 where identified based on EU rules, as decided at the Summit on the refugee issue.
We do not know if the passport was checked by other countries which are likely to be passed by the holder.
We will continue the painstaking and persistent effort under difficult circumstances to ensure the security of our country and Europe, insisting on complete identification of passing through the refugee stream.
I guess you are right there all the attacks are not carry out by Syrian refugee. I am so so so so sorry we got incorrect info. And that 0 terrorist have disguise themselves as refugee. Everyone who claims they are a Syrian refugee is indeed one and none will pose any security thread to anyone.
I would question any sources claiming that any of these terrorists were refugees... So you have two shitty tabloids, a personal blog, and zero hedge, which is basically The Onion to anyone who isn't a conspiracy nutcase crackpot
They may have been, but I'd want more solid sources than these...
As mentioned, refugee vs immigrant. Different requirements, different process, different screening, etc., etc.
I'm what's considered to be a 1.5 generation Canadian. Why is that relevant? Well, my grandparents immigrated to Canada under refugee status after WW2. Nothing particularly odd about that, I know. However, what makes in interesting is that my Opa was part of General Rommel's Afrika Korps. Sure, he was conscripted and he was merely a field doctor, but he still had the Nazi stigma attached to his name. And yet, even after WW2 ended, he and the rest of his family still managed to gain refugee status here in Canada. He wasn't antisemite (as far as I have been able to gather, at least lol), but he was still an evil German Nazi in the eyes of the general public.
I bring this up because, well, part of the whole acceptance of taking in refugees is believing that people who need help deserve what we can give. It's a chance of having a better life, away from persecution or illegal prosecution.
I'm half asleep, but I know my point is made in there somewhere. Might just have to read between the lines more than usual. lol
I'll play devils advocate and say that singular members of the Nazi's, even if they were the worst of the worst had very little risk as a singular entity coming into Canada.
Hell, even in occupied areas during WW2 without well orchestrated orders and guidance, the nazi occupation virtually crumbled and that was with hundreds to thousands of German soldiers. So to say bringing in one, ten, or even a hundred nazi's to Canada, in the big picture probably posed little to no risk to the general populous.
On the other hand, you bring in 25k Syrians, and have 10 that share extremist views. That could end in devastating consequences.
Like I said earlier, this is a completely different, unseen, set of circumstances.
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Dank memes cant melt steel beams
I would question any sources claiming that any of these terrorists were refugees... So you have two shitty tabloids, a personal blog, and zero hedge, which is basically The Onion to anyone who isn't a conspiracy nutcase crackpot
They may have been, but I'd want more solid sources than these...
Paris Bomber Sneaked in With Refugees, Officials Say
By BRIAN ROSS DRAGANA JOVANOVIC Nov 15, 2015, 6:36 PM ET
The route from Turkey across the Mediterranean and into Europe has been a perilous one for thousands of refugees fleeing the violence in Syria, but European authorities say one terrorist hidden among the innocents on a packed Greece-bound boat in early October was determined to bring the bloodshed with him -- all the way to Paris.
A slideshow presentation created by the Greek government says the man, who was identified as Ahmad Almohammad on identification documents but could have used an alias, was recorded coming into the Greek island of Leros on Oct. 3. He arrived on a boat with 197 other people from Turkey.
He had his photo taken and was fingerprinted, in accordance with Greek immigration policy, and shipped to mainland Greece. European officials say from there the man calling himself Almohammad made his way through Serbia on Oct. 7 and then Croatia on Oct. 8. From there he went on through Hungary and Austria, according to European officials.
From there, however, the trail goes cold. The slideshow presentation shows the possible routes the man could’ve taken to his final destination, but in various possible border crossings, it notes that his transit was not recorded.
Just over a month later, French and Greek authorities say, the man emerges outside a crowded soccer stadium in Paris where he, after reportedly having been denied entry by security guards, detonated the suicide vest, killing himself and a bystander. His Syrian passport somehow survived the explosion, giving police one of their first clues in what would become one of the most horrific terrorist attacks in history.
According to French police officials, his bombing was the first in a string of shootings and bombings that would claim more than 120 lives in Paris that night, and injure more than 350 others.
Early Saturday the Syria-based terror group ISIS claimed responsibility for the attack, saying it was the first in a coming “storm.”
CNN has it too
Quote:
'Ahmad al Muhammad' (false name)
Status: Dead
Residence: Unknown; immigrated with Syrian refugees
Suspected of: Stadium suicide bomber (Stade de France)
One of three bombers who detonated themselves at the Stade de France late Friday arrived on the Greek island of Leros on October 3 among numerous Syrian refugees, CNN's Christiane Amanpour reported, citing an unnamed French senator who was briefed by the Ministry of the Interior.
Suicide bomber smuggled in with refugees 06:11
This man held an emergency passport or similar document and falsely declared himself to be a Syrian named Ahmad al Muhammad, born on September 10, 1990, the senator said. The man was allowed to enter Greece on October 3 and, from there, moved to Macedonia, then Serbia and Croatia, where he registered in the Opatovac refugee camp, the lawmaker said.
Eventually, he made his way to Paris, where he was one of three men who blew themselves up at the Stade de France.
Thank you to people who still have some common sense. Soundy and Westopher, who actually spend the time to try to educate people. If not for people like you, I probably wouldn't even be allowed to live here. I immigrated to Canada at a very young age and I'm very lucky my parents were able to bring my family here. Not, I'm not Muslin, but if everyone thought the way that a SURPRISINGLY LARGE percentage of people here do (NOT just the forum, but I read the comments on Global News' FB Page), then the immigration laws would be so fucked up that I wouldn't have even had a fucking chance.
People WAKE THE FUCK UP. What does a Syrian refugee have ANYTHING to do with some fucking retards bombing and shooting up Paris?!?! Why are you less likely to let in refugees AFTER the attack as opposed to BEFORE? Are you telling me that 25,000 people suddenly became a terrorist threat because somewhere 1000s of miles away, a handful of retards decided to plot an attack? Terrorists are going to find a way to fuck shit up regardless Canada accepts refugees or not.
While I agree there are obvious precautions that need to be taken to protect our country, being a full out racist is only going to make the problem worse. How would you feel if all of a sudden, your religion of ethnicity got labelled as terrorist? Why don't you put yourself in the shoes of these people and just think for a fucking second.. How would you go about your life? How do you clear your name? Do you just go ahead and end your life? If anything, reading all this shit would just make me so fucking furious.
There is so much that we don't know about this World and how it is truly run, I find it insane how people can make such radical comments.. Mind is absolutely fucking blown. I hope that these people, wherever they are from, and whatever religion they choose to follow, find peace and harmony. I can't even imagine what sort of bullshit they have experienced in the last 5 years or so.
I agree with the Saskatchewan premier on a suspension of the entry of Syrian refugees into Canada.
Trudeau and the Liberals need to make sure that very detailed background checks are done on every Syrian that is applying for refugee status. Sharing of information between Canada and other countries is vital to ensure we don't get any people who have plans to kill Canadians in the name of "Allah".
I realize that no screening system is 100% full proof. However, I think the smart thing, and the right thing, for the Liberal government to do, is to step back, look at our current screening system for refugees just to make sure there are the highest possible security standards are applied for each and every screening of a person. If it means a temporary suspension of refugee admission into our country in order for this kind of work to be done, then so be it.
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Last edited by pastarocket; 11-16-2015 at 12:33 PM.
Is the Brazilian government systematically prosecuting its own people? This is what the Syrian government has done in order to consolidate power. The Syrian government has also been powerless in stopping the persecution of its citizens outside of the areas under its control.
Death as a result of criminal activity is one thing, but persecution from your own government is another. A government is in the business of providing security to its own citizens. If a government cannot do this, then a person is free to seek security elsewhere. This is what the international community has recognized since WWII.
I don't think anyone is against bringing in refugees from war torn places. What I have a problem with is the timeline Justin wants to do it in
Agree. What's with this date driven policy of bringing in 25000 refugees before the end of the year? Proper and adequate screening cannot be done if things get pushed through before the end of the year.
I don't think anyone is against bringing in refugees from war torn places. What I have a problem with is the timeline Justin wants to do it in
uhh, no man.. a lot of people are against it.. lol
Screening won't do shit in a situation like this.. I don't even think Canada has any sort of data sharing agreements with Syria...
I mean I'm pretty sure these guys wont just board a ship, land in Canada, and just go do whatever they fuck they want.. There will be some sort of procedure... Hopefully...
Hard to judge until we get more information on what exactly is going to happen.
I don't think anyone is against bringing in refugees from war torn places. What I have a problem with is the timeline Justin wants to do it in
I can appreciate that view for sure, but I promise lots of people are against bringing in refugees from war torn places as soon as the M word (muslim) is used. I'd rather bring in the refugees and do it properly over a longer period of time if thats what it takes, but you have to admit a lot of the way people in here or various other forms of social media have been speaking about it, it is clear people think none should be allowed in under any circumstances, and their views and rants contain absolutely insane amounts of racism and anti muslim sentiments.
As usual, people are on both extremes, and the answer lies somewhere within the middle.
I still believe we need to thoroughly do our best to bring in as many refugees as reasonably possible, in an accelerated as possible time. These people's lives that are affected by this conflict are just as important as ours.
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Originally Posted by boostfever
Westopher is correct.
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Originally Posted by fsy82
seems like you got a dick up your ass well..get that checked
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Originally Posted by punkwax
Well.. I’d hate to be the first to say it, but Westopher is correct.
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