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Old 11-14-2015, 12:44 PM   #101
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Would you have the same reaction if your best friend's family or your next door neighbours were victims of home invasion and rape as you would seeing a news story about it happening to some random stranger?
Stupid question... obviously not. Am I suppose to go to everybody's funeral now?

Shit happens, it's reality, you read it, feel remorse and that's it. A week passes, you hear another school shooting. What's new really?

As much of an asshole as that sounds, it's something across the world. ISIS kill people every day. They tied hostages to statues and bomb them. No thread about those because it's not mainstream? Murders, rapes, missing people, etc. appears in those little articles in the province every day. Nobody gives a shit about those.

How does this differ from any other news and deserves a 10/10?
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Old 11-14-2015, 01:22 PM   #102
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Can you think of any examples? Do you think it would instead be based on nationality or race?
The largest wars in history were fought over land. One might argue religion played a part in WWII because of Hitler's extermination of Jews, but that was because of their race, rather than their religion. Acquiring land was still the basis for the whole damn thing.

There have been bombings in the past in the name of the environment.

Before 9/11, the worst terrorist attack on US soil was committed by a clean-cut good ol' white boy who was pissed at the government.

Of course, along with land goes resources - Iraq invaded Kuwait specifically for the oil. Some say oil was the ONLY reason the US went into Iraq (nothing to do with Saddam failing to abide by international sanctions, of course). We're told repeatedly that future wars will be fought over water.
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Old 11-14-2015, 01:27 PM   #103
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Old 11-14-2015, 01:42 PM   #104
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Stupid question... obviously not. Am I suppose to go to everybody's funeral now?

Shit happens, it's reality, you read it, feel remorse and that's it. A week passes, you hear another school shooting. What's new really?

As much of an asshole as that sounds, it's something across the world. ISIS kill people every day. They tied hostages to statues and bomb them. No thread about those because it's not mainstream? Murders, rapes, missing people, etc. appears in those little articles in the province every day. Nobody gives a shit about those.

How does this differ from any other news and deserves a 10/10?
Don't know about others here, but I can more easily and readily relate to things like the WTC attacks, the London Metro bombing, the Paris attacks and other such Western localized news bits because I've been and walked through those very streets or hallways where shit happened. I was inside the Twin Towers a couple years before they collapsed. I've taken the Metro before. I actually visited a couple of the areas in Paris where the attacks took place. I can picture these things from memory, so they become more personal to me. All the mass school shootings in the USA, the bombing in Beirut that happened earlier yesterday, the attacks on the Gaza Strip... these are all things I only know from the news. Don't get me wrong; they're all tragedies in their own right, but it's hard for me to get too upset about them because I've never been to those places or met the people who live there.

Paris and New York hit home for many Westerners because chances are we've either visited them or we know someone from there.
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Old 11-14-2015, 02:03 PM   #105
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Don't know about others here, but I can more easily and readily relate to things like the WTC attacks, the London Metro bombing, the Paris attacks and other such Western localized news bits because I've been and walked through those very streets or hallways where shit happened. I was inside the Twin Towers a couple years before they collapsed. I've taken the Metro before. I actually visited a couple of the areas in Paris where the attacks took place. I can picture these things from memory, so they become more personal to me. All the mass school shootings in the USA, the bombing in Beirut that happened earlier yesterday, the attacks on the Gaza Strip... these are all things I only know from the news. Don't get me wrong; they're all tragedies in their own right, but it's hard for me to get too upset about them because I've never been to those places or met the people who live there.

Paris and New York hit home for many Westerners because chances are we've either visited them or we know someone from there.
Kinda the same for me with the Umpqua College shootings recently, not because I've been to that school specifically, but some of my family lives in Roseburg, and it really is a "small-town" atmosphere where I don't think there's any more than two degrees of separation between anyone. Also, two of my cousin's kids went to Umpqua (thankfully, not when the attacks happened) and a lot of their friends were directly affected, so we heard a lot of first-hand pain from that.

Anyway, I think another part of the reason bombings in other areas (Beirut, etc.) don't hit as hard here is because hearing about it in the news almost feels
commonplace now. Gas prices up again, raining in Vancouver, car bomb in the Gaza, ho-hum.
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Old 11-14-2015, 03:00 PM   #106
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On the subject of criticizing religion:

Getting these people off religion, at least the mainstream traditional religions, isn't as simple as educating them. They may give it all up and see the light, but they seem to need something to fill that void and end up turning to some other irrational belief system. Ie: Lacey Green, and others like her, give up their religious upbringing for atheisms, only to turn to feminism and social justice. Many 9/11 Truthers and other conspiracy theorists were once religious, claim to be atheist, and depend on a reality in which there is a mysterious world-wide plot beyond their control. People religiously follow sports and create all sorts of rituals in the absence of religion. Its simply human nature to want to fill a void, to feel a part of something greater, and to ignore reason. I don't fault religious people for this but I do fault them for the inability to take a step back in the face of overwhelming fact.

Terrorists, often in the name of some religion, display a degree of a lack of critical thinking and make leaps in logic to justify their actions. Religious people also show these traits. I view religious people much like I do pitbulls, a species perfectly able to exist peacefully, yet more prone to violence given certain conditions in their upbringing and environment. One can argue that these fundamentalist extremists, are following their religion far truer to the words written than those who pick and choose what practices to follow in order to suit their lifestyle.

Thunderf00t made some excellent points about Islam in the western world here:
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Old 11-14-2015, 03:31 PM   #107
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People religiously follow sports and create all sorts of rituals in the absence of religion. Its simply human nature to want to fill a void, to feel a part of something greater, and to ignore reason
Fact is, everyone has a "god" in their lives.

"Whatever your heart clings to & whatever your heart relies upon, is your god." -Martin Luther

"Whatever you draw your Strength and your Substance from, whatever you turn to in your Hour of Need - that's your god." - Mike Warnke
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Old 11-14-2015, 03:35 PM   #108
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Old 11-14-2015, 04:16 PM   #109
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Fact is, everyone has a "god" in their lives.

"Whatever your heart clings to & whatever your heart relies upon, is your god." -Martin Luther

"Whatever you draw your Strength and your Substance from, whatever you turn to in your Hour of Need - that's your god." - Mike Warnke
"I am a god" - Kanye
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Old 11-14-2015, 04:25 PM   #110
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Fact is, everyone has a "god" in their lives.

"Whatever your heart clings to & whatever your heart relies upon, is your god." -Martin Luther

"Whatever you draw your Strength and your Substance from, whatever you turn to in your Hour of Need - that's your god." - Mike Warnke
The key is, from time to time one must be able to step away from deeply held beliefs in the face of overwhelming fact.
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Old 11-14-2015, 04:47 PM   #111
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The key is, from time to time one must be able to step away from deeply held beliefs in the face of overwhelming fact.
So, "my god is more real than your god"?

Congratulations, you're part of the problem.
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Old 11-14-2015, 05:14 PM   #112
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This is a news article about the terrorist threat levels in major Canadian cities.

Vancouver, Edmonton, Montreal, and Toronto are classified with a "medium" level of threat.

EXCLUSIVE: Terrorist threat levels highest in Vancouver, Edmonton, Montreal, Toronto | Globalnews.ca
OTTAWA – How real is the possibility of a terrorist attack in Canada?

According to the Integrated Terrorism Assessment Centre, it depends where you live.



An internal report obtained by Global News classifies the terror threat level in Vancouver, Edmonton, Montreal and the Greater Toronto Area at “medium.”

Medium means an individual or group has the capability and intent to carry out an attack – an act of terrorism “could occur.”

A “low” threat level means and individual or group has the capability or intent to carry out an act of terrorism – it’s “possible but unlikely.”
Security expert David Hyde says the medium level does not mean the threat is critical – but it is elevated.

Calgary and Halifax rank “low.”

The difference?


A “low” threat level means and individual or group has the capability or intent to carry out an act of terrorism – it’s “possible but unlikely.”
Security expert David Hyde says the medium level does not mean the threat is critical – but it is elevated.


“It is cause for scrutiny, it is cause to be on guard, but it’s not cause for concern that there’s anything imminent that’s going to happen around the corner as far as authorities know,” he said


The report mentions specific threats:

In British Columbia, “single source intelligence” shows a potential plot originating from an ISIS-linked group in the Afghanistan/Pakistan region may be targeting a Canadian Forces base.

In Fort McMurray, “radicalized” people may be attempting to get jobs in the oilsands to raise money to fight with ISIS.
In Montreal, the arrests of allegedly radicalized teens are noted. There is no imminent threat, but the report warns “extremists could develop plots if prevented from travelling.”


The most likely attack scenarios for all cities “would involve small arms, IEDs, bladed weapons, or other simple attack methods,” carried out by lone-wolves or small groups inspired by ISIS.

The situations laid out in the report are similar to the Ottawa shooting last October, carried out by lone gunman Michael Zehaf-Bibeau.

And while Public Safety reports on the overall terror threat, it does so only once a year.

Asked about the threat assessments, a government spokesman told Global News, “the threat is real,” and pointed to the recently-passed anti-terror bill C-51.

“That is why our Government has passed the Anti-terrorism Act, 2015, to ensure that our police forces have the tools they need to combat the evolving threat of terrorism,” Jean-Christophe de Le Rue said in an email.

The report also highlights the vulnerability of events like Canada Day, the FIFA Women’s World Cup and the upcoming Pan Am games in Toronto.

At this point, the threat level is “low,” although there will be a new assessment each week.Unlike the United States and Europe, where terror threat levels are public, they aren’t in Canada.
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Old 11-14-2015, 05:16 PM   #113
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So, "my god is more real than your god"?

Congratulations, you're part of the problem.
thinking that there is a god is the problem
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Old 11-14-2015, 05:26 PM   #114
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Old 11-14-2015, 06:48 PM   #115
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Stupid question... obviously not. Am I suppose to go to everybody's funeral now?

Shit happens, it's reality, you read it, feel remorse and that's it. A week passes, you hear another school shooting. What's new really?

As much of an asshole as that sounds, it's something across the world. ISIS kill people every day. They tied hostages to statues and bomb them. No thread about those because it's not mainstream? Murders, rapes, missing people, etc. appears in those little articles in the province every day. Nobody gives a shit about those.

How does this differ from any other news and deserves a 10/10?
Because this isn't just some random violence that happens all the time in the same places (in fact, the day before this shooting, 200 people died in an attack in Beirut). This is a direct attack on our innocent brothers and sisters on our neighbour's soil. This is a direct attack on us (the west) on our turf. Of course it's a bigger deal to US than a bombing in Lebanon or Palestine or whatever.
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Old 11-14-2015, 06:53 PM   #116
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thinking that there is a god is the problem
people will always find a reason to murder/maim/control/prejudice others

just looking at the modern era, atheists are responsible for the deadliest weapons we've ever seen, and the most deaths

people who claim to be atheists and like to put down those who are religious and blame them for the worlds troubles (prejudice) is just another example that it doesn't matter what you believe in (or don't) PEOPLE are assholes and will find any excuse to be assholes (iirc ulic made such a post once )



for those interested watch the first 20-ish minutes of the democratic debate tonight, they make some good points about the issue of isis/paris/refugees

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As usual you're posting nonsense. You speak as though China's "tough stance" on Islam (which doesn't exist btw, any more than they persecute any other group) is highly effective, and the rest of the world must be blindly aggressive against people based on their religion.

Whatever China is doing is not exactly preventing terrorism.

So how bad are these terrorists? China sure knows how to handle them.
China didn't begin to identify them as terrorists until after 9/11, prior to that they were separatists, there's a deep history of China marginalizing them and pushing them out of their homes into the mountains, attempts to ethnically cleanse them by mass/forced emigration of Han Chinese women into the area to, in essence, ensure they become more and more chinese, lots and lots of tactics used against them.

The media is blocked from entering the region too, the BBC has tried countless times but China is pretty good at blocking their entrance, so most reports of the brutality is based on hearsay or smuggled/secret footage

Which is why countries like the USA never recognized Chinas claim that these were terrorists, initially, until uighurs began joining the taliban etc in attacks in the middle east, even then there's a lack of acceptance of Chinas claims

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Old 11-14-2015, 06:56 PM   #117
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Probably stating what others have already said but these attacks have nothing to do with religion, it's about money and the political agenda of lunatics.

Maybe I'm just lucky, but every single muslim I have ever spent any amount of time with was a wonderfully genuine and caring person.

According to a girl that works for me who is from Algeria, the majority of the ISIS fighters are only working for ISIS because they are well compensated, they don't at all care about a system of beliefs held by the group.

There is a long standing theory (supported by some significant evidence actually) that many of these terror groups are funded by a number of oil rich countries in the middle east. You might wonder why Saudi Arabia would fund terrorists... well it's better to pay the local lunatics to go bomb other countries than it is for them to eventually bomb their own or create civil unrest etc.

Meh, too bad Muslims get the bad rap.
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Old 11-14-2015, 07:06 PM   #118
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people will always find a reason to murder/maim/control/prejudice others

just looking at the modern era, atheists are responsible for the deadliest weapons we've ever seen, and the most deaths

people who claim to be atheists and like to put down those who are religious and blame them for the worlds troubles (prejudice) is just another example that it doesn't matter what you believe in (or don't) PEOPLE are assholes and will find any excuse to be assholes (iirc ulic made such a post once )
Could you site some examples of people who created weapons in the name of non-belief or killed people in the name of non-belief? Like you said, people will always find a reason to murder/maim/control/prejudice others and not having theistic beliefs seems like an unlikely reason on its own.
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Old 11-14-2015, 07:17 PM   #119
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People who say "don't blame religion" still haven't come up with what they think the alternative would be if region didn't exist. Yes Europe fought wars for centuries over land, but don't think religion wasn't involved there either (catholic vs protestant, christians vs muslims).
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Old 11-14-2015, 08:46 PM   #120
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Could you site some examples of people who created weapons in the name of non-belief or killed people in the name of non-belief?
religious belief or belief in anything at all...? as an atheist still believes in something... and those who seek out to oppress/control/kill/rule have a belief in their specific causes/goals

it's kind of silly since it's so glaringly obvious but

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Old 11-14-2015, 09:39 PM   #121
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Much as I suspected, the who's who of the atheist atrocities fallacy.

Here: a·the·ism
ˈāTHēˌizəm/Submit
noun
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

If you could demonstrate how a lack of belief was the driving force behind Stalin:

Spoiler!

Mao:
Spoiler!

Do you see a pattern? They weren't driven by non-belief but by power.

Oppenheimer wasn't driven to build a weapon by his desire to spread non-belief.

And don't bother with bringing up Hitler or Pol Pot because they weren't atheists or driven by non-belief.

Atheism is simply a non-belief in a god(s). Nothing more. There's no collection of goals, ideas, belief systems, political system, etc.
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Old 11-14-2015, 09:46 PM   #122
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which is why i asked if you were speaking about religious belief or a belief in anything at all as in their specific causes or goals

but now you're taking the defense that religious people take when they defend their faiths against extremists "oh they don't represent us..."

which i get and is perfectly acceptable, but then on the flip side you can't continue to lay blame on a general religion for the minute minority of extremists

i get what you're saying it's difficult or impossible to see an atheist go on a murderous rampage in the name of their atheism or to spread atheism (never looked into it, but i don't recall any in passing either), but it isn't difficult to find atheists who do go on murderous rampages, or are bigoted/prejudicial towards those who don't believe as they, or create weapons of mass destruction

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Old 11-15-2015, 02:45 AM   #123
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The people in this thread have no leaders.... most of you are so misguided... at-least Jesus would correct some of you to learn right from wrong seen with the shit police threads of the past.

People here idolize sport figures and actresses... "oh shes so pretty"... and have no just political\governmental humans that they look up to.

This is one of my leaders speaking of the Paris attacks.
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Old 11-15-2015, 08:28 AM   #124
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Old 11-15-2015, 09:48 AM   #125
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People who say "don't blame religion" still haven't come up with what they think the alternative would be if region didn't exist. Yes Europe fought wars for centuries over land, but don't think religion wasn't involved there either (catholic vs protestant, christians vs muslims).
It bothers the hell out of me, and I'm sure for many others including atheists/agnostics, that you continue to shift blame to religion every time a thread of this sort comes up. You also need to define what constitutes a religion because the term can be broadly used and a person can in a way be "religious" by having a set of beliefs based on which he/she firmly rests on (doesn't have to be Christianity, Buddhism, Muslim, etc.).

Your belief is so misguided (almost to a point brainwashed) I'm not sure if anything will help you.

The problem is, you need to understand what is driving people to cause catastrophes in this world. Whether you believe in a religion or not, you need to know that humans are indeed born with sins (or use the term flaws if the term "sins" so disturb your sensitive heart). As you become a parent, you will start to clearly see that your lovely children will start lying to you and become ever so greedy without anyone teaching them to be that way.

Greed has driven people to cause tremendous grief in this world, whether it be a smaller scale family issues, to larger scale wars where millions die, or a full-blown financial crisis which impact may not seem obvious to many, but has devastated millions of people. Does it not occur to you that in many instances they have nothing to do with your so-called "religions"? Why are you so fixated on wars resulting from religious conflicts while ignoring all the problems we face in our developed economies?

People will mess up whether religions exist or not because it is in our nature to do so. The sad truth is that religions have been used as a channel to manipulate people in doing even more stupid things. Look at some extreme cases like Jim Jones. Look at Japanese in WWII. They were greedy and wanted more land, and the people were fearless because they believed their God aka the emperors (the pussies who stayed in their comfortable home) will deliver victory to them. Some of them literally believed their emperors will control the wind to their favor thus the term Kamikaze (God wind). I'm of an opinion that if a person doesn't possess an ability to think critically, no religions will save him. It is unfortunate but there are many vulnerable people in this world who are not remotely close to being privileged like us here to grow up in a relatively healthy environment.

This does not lead to religions = bad. The world is also filled with many people of good faith, who are genuinely making positive impact (you can do your own research but Nick Vujicic is a great example). There are countless missionaries out in the third world countries helping those in need. I personally know many missionaries who gave up their lucrative jobs in their comfortable Western world. They aren't out there trying to simply "convert" people by words, but are making tangible impacts because actions speak louder than words and will reflect their faith.

You want to know what the alternative would be if religions don't exist? It won't happen. As the French mathematician Blaise Pascal put it: "What else does this craving, and this helplessness, proclaim but that there was once in man a true happiness, of which all that now remains is the empty print and trace? This he tries in vain to fill with everything around him, seeking in things that are not there the help he cannot find in those that are, though none can help, since this infinite abyss can be filled only with an infinite and immutable object; in other words by God himself".

The gist of it is that there is a God-shaped vacuum in every person that only God can fill. It doesn't take a religious person to know this. Whether rich or poor, humans always have that desire to seek something more, but often in a destructive way. As long as there are people, there will be religions. While many people have turned their lives around and significantly benefited from having a healthy faith, some will inevitably be manipulated to inflict damages to this world. It's just pathetic to see you simply categorizing religions as bad and think the world would perhaps be a better place if they never existed.

You need to, especially as a moderator, stop mindless jumping on the bandwagon of religion bashing. Stop repeating the same crap about religions in every thread like this. Clueless atheists and overzealous religious extremists are the two types of people I can't stand, and you belong to the former group.
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