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Given Elon's history of inflating figures, I am not holding my breath.
Sure, give it torque, but at the end of day, if your tires can't grip, it's all useless. Traction limit will come in at some point, which is about 2 seconds from 0 to 60.
In this video, the driver states that the 1.9 second 0-60 is conservative.
So now that ev cars have forever taken the 0-60 crown away from our beloved dino engines, the only thing we have left is prestige (debatable), sound and thankfully good looks(for now). Oh and convenience.
Seriously if one were to buy the latest and greatest hypercar nowadays and then have a Tesla smoke it, why even bother. Half the reason why anyone would purchase these things are for the bragging rights or potential abilities of said car. Not so fun when a 100k Tesla kills your half a million dollar car all the while seating 5 people.
it's the intangibles: EVs are unlikely to ever have that tossable lightweight feel, and 3rd pedal even if that's all but practically phased out going into the next decade
i do appreciate their low center of gravity though
There is little ICE cars can do against Tesla in drag races. Tesla is single gear, linear progression and off the chart torque all thank to its motors.
Tesla's electric motors are an impressive feat of engineering. It's light, cheap (relatively) to make and yet outperforms anything else on the market. As Sandy Munro of Munro & Associates puts it: "it's magical".
I own nothing of Tesla yet... but my exp of few days with buddy's Tesla X left me very impressed and I don't think I'd ever look back at ICE (maybe for a "nostalgic" reason) ever again.
It's like first time using an iPhone... where you suddenly realize this is SO MUCH better than even the most outrageous feature phone you have ever owned and you'd never look back.
my buddy got a decked out one (P something something D) and it just makes my maserati seem like its from the stone age. If you have a single detached house, these EV's make a lot of sense. Id get one if it wasnt feel like im buying a beta test product. Maybe another 10 years or so and ill grab one made by Toyota or Honda, or anybody else that isnt really making cars at a loss.
Top Fuel Dragsters are ICE aren't they? 0-60 in 0.8 seconds and 1/4 mile in under 4 seconds... j/k
For me, it's not the range. It's the charge time. I do a long road trip annually and I'll be damned if I have to wait an hour to charge the car every 4-5 hours. Until they can be charged in 5 mins, the most "electric" car I'll buy is maybe a performance hybrid like the Volvo S90 or Lincoln Aviator.
There's also the lack of noise. When I rented a Model S in Vegas, it was creepily quiet in the interior. I was hearing every creek and rattle the car was making. Kinda made the car feel cheap. Loads of fun to drive though.
__________________
"Damn fine car Dodge... Ran over me wife with a Dodge!", Zeke
Top Fuel Dragsters are ICE aren't they? 0-60 in 0.8 seconds and 1/4 mile in under 4 seconds... j/k
For me, it's not the range. It's the charge time. I do a long road trip annually and I'll be damned if I have to wait an hour to charge the car every 4-5 hours. Until they can be charged in 5 mins, the most "electric" car I'll buy is maybe a performance hybrid like the Volvo S90 or Lincoln Aviator.
There's also the lack of noise. When I rented a Model S in Vegas, it was creepily quiet in the interior. I was hearing every creek and rattle the car was making. Kinda made the car feel cheap. Loads of fun to drive though.
If Tesla can make a "consumer" grade car that does 0-60 in 1.9 on the upcoming Roadster... imagine what one can do if they forgo all "compromises" that they need to take to make it civil.
I think we'd eventually get there with some crazy high output chargers and help of supercapacitors/crazy battery tech.
In the mean time though, I'm not sure how often you go on these long roadtrips. But my idea of going all EV is to rent an ICE when I need to go on crazy long roadtrips AND when time is actually a concern (hence not allowing long stops).
Otherwise, from the homeworks I'm doing before going EV, I think an EV is going to do fine 99.99% of all my trips, roadtrips included.
I mean, even with ICE vehicles, I can't really keep my kids quiet for longer than 4hrs (heck, even the 2.5hr to Seattle is often a stretch). So we'd usually stop by rest area, a coffee or something so kids can "recharge" before going again on a long drive. Sure this "recharge" time will be longer than before (say 15min vs. 40min with supercharger?) but unless time is a constraint, I hardly see it as a problem. This is under the assumption of my usual long trip (to Kamloop/Kelowna in CA or down to Portland in US).
sure if you road trip every few weekends, but once or twice a year at most?
read truck thread, if you think your vehicle MIGHT haul something once a year, rent for $20/day
for daily duty with home charging accessibility, i think EV makes a lot of sense even in this early adopter phase
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hehe
It's like first time using an iPhone... where you suddenly realize this is SO MUCH better than even the most outrageous feature phone you have ever owned and you'd never look back.
yet i want a wearable that can't browse social media and has a week battery life so i can give up on smartphones for good
i can't imagine getting rid of ICE for weekend fun completely unless gasoline becomes very difficult to source/prohibitive in cost, or gets outright banned and can't be grandfathered on the road
For me, it's not the range. It's the charge time. I do a long road trip annually and I'll be damned if I have to wait an hour to charge the car every 4-5 hours. Until they can be charged in 5 mins, the most "electric" car I'll buy is maybe a performance hybrid like the Volvo S90 or Lincoln Aviator.
You wake up at a hotel get something to eat. Drive for 4 or 5 hours grab lunch while your car charges then drive for another 4 or 5 hours. That lunch you had was free because you didn't have to pay for gas.
__________________ Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
^
My friend recently did Calgary <-> Palm Springs in his Model3... if only it was that simple... he had to plan to stay only at places with charging areas cuz anywhere off the west coast Tesla's supercharger stations are non-existent... and even at outlet malls or other places, the more cars that are plugged in, the slower each car charges... and many times the charging bays are all occupied... what was a 5 hour drive turned into an 8 hour one due to charging complications. He also has the fanciest Model3 that was like $100k after tax so his range is a lot more than most of the cheaper ones.
It's almost there... ALMOST... but not quite............ also I can't speak for littledragon, but when I do YVR-SFO or LAX drives........ I don't want to stop for an hour+ for lunch... I want to keep plowing through. I bring my own food or if I do stop it's for take-out not dine-in.
Apparently, back-to-back usage of level 3 charging is bad for battery longevitity. If you have used level 3 charging, the recommendation is to at least alternate the next charge with level 2 charging before going back to level 3 charging again. And then level 2 charging is also not as good for the battery compared to level 1 charging. But level 1 charging is probably completely inpractical unless you are doing it overnight at home.
^
My friend recently did Calgary <-> Palm Springs in his Model3... if only it was that simple... he had to plan to stay only at places with charging areas cuz anywhere off the west coast Tesla's supercharger stations are non-existent... and even at outlet malls or other places, the more cars that are plugged in, the slower each car charges... and many times the charging bays are all occupied... what was a 5 hour drive turned into an 8 hour one due to charging complications. He also has the fanciest Model3 that was like $100k after tax so his range is a lot more than most of the cheaper ones.
It's almost there... ALMOST... but not quite............ also I can't speak for littledragon, but when I do YVR-SFO or LAX drives........ I don't want to stop for an hour+ for lunch... I want to keep plowing through. I bring my own food or if I do stop it's for take-out not dine-in.
But how much money did he save in fuel. I would rather sit on my ass for 3 hours then have to work to pay for gas.
__________________ Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
So now that ev cars have forever taken the 0-60 crown away from our beloved dino engines, the only thing we have left is prestige (debatable), sound and thankfully good looks(for now). Oh and convenience.
Seriously if one were to buy the latest and greatest hypercar nowadays and then have a Tesla smoke it, why even bother. Half the reason why anyone would purchase these things are for the bragging rights or potential abilities of said car. Not so fun when a 100k Tesla kills your half a million dollar car all the while seating 5 people.
What about handling? Being fast in a straight line looks great on paper but to me a fun car needs to be fun for more than 2 seconds at a time. Granted I haven't driven one in real life but I remember in Gran Turismo the Tesla was a huge turd going around a track.
Quote:
Originally Posted by twitchyzero
it's the intangibles: EVs are unlikely to ever have that tossable lightweight feel, and 3rd pedal even if that's all but practically phased out going into the next decade
It seems like now really is a time to urgently do as much enjoyable driving as possible. Being stuck driving autos or EVs with no gears seems to be coming faster than I'd like. Watching some of my friends who are daily driving commuter vehicles while slowly building a fun car make me wonder if they'll even get to drive it when it's finally done.
__________________ 1991 Toyota Celica GTFour RC // 2007 Toyota Rav4 V6 // 2000 Jeep Grand Cherokee
1992 Toyota Celica GT-S ["sold"] \\ 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD [sold] \\ 2000 Jeep Cherokee [sold] \\ 1997 Honda Prelude [sold] \\ 1992 Jeep YJ [sold/crashed] \\ 1987 Mazda RX-7 [sold] \\ 1987 Toyota Celica GT-S [crushed]
Quote:
Originally Posted by maksimizer
half those dudes are hotter than ,my GF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RevYouUp
reading this thread is like waiting for goku to charge up a spirit bomb in dragon ball z
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good_KarMa
OH thank god. I thought u had sex with my wife. :cry:
Apparently, back-to-back usage of level 3 charging is bad for battery longevitity. If you have used level 3 charging, the recommendation is to at least alternate the next charge with level 2 charging before going back to level 3 charging again. And then level 2 charging is also not as good for the battery compared to level 1 charging. But level 1 charging is probably completely inpractical unless you are doing it overnight at home.
You wake up at a hotel get something to eat. Drive for 4 or 5 hours grab lunch while your car charges then drive for another 4 or 5 hours. That lunch you had was free because you didn't have to pay for gas.
My road trips are typically 20+ hours straight shot. Usually Las Vegas or Los Angeles. Drive 5 hours, fill up, change drivers and keep going. Hopefully in 10 years time I could charge in 5 mins and the car can drive itself so I can actually enjoy the scenery instead of concentrating on the road. I don't stop for food. It's either gas station food or Chef Boyardee cans with the pull tab. Leave it on the engine block to heat up before opening... lol
I don't do these trips often now but I used to do these a lot when I'm younger and I plan to get back to it when I retire. Nothing else to do when I'm retired so I'm just going to drive around North America.
__________________
"Damn fine car Dodge... Ran over me wife with a Dodge!", Zeke
it's the intangibles: EVs are unlikely to ever have that tossable lightweight feel, and 3rd pedal even if that's all but practically phased out going into the next decade
i do appreciate their low center of gravity though
As much as I love having a clutch, it's pointless on an EV. The entire point of gears is to maintain the engine speed for optimal performance (be it power, fuel economy, and/or reliability).
Electric motors don't have the same characteristics that would benefit from multiple gears.
Wouldn't gears make an electric motor spin slower reducing wear and tear? Can also use gears to give an electric cars a higher top speed. Maybe use the gearing so you can use a weaker less power hungry motor and increase range?
Rimac uses a 2 speed transmission.
__________________
"Damn fine car Dodge... Ran over me wife with a Dodge!", Zeke
Wouldn't gears make an electric motor spin slower reducing wear and tear?
Adding mechanical complexity, cost, and weight isn't going to increase reliability. Electric motors running at top speed typically isn't an issue. We have some 50 HP fans at my work that have been running 24/7/365 (except a few hours a year for maintenance) for 25 years without any problems.
Electric motors are also typically most efficient near their top speed.
Quote:
Can also use gears to give an electric cars a higher top speed.
You can also just give it a longer single gear. Top speed isn't really an issue unless you're taking it on a race track, in which case a dinosaur burner is a much better choice, anyways.
Quote:
Maybe use the gearing so you can use a weaker less power hungry motor and increase range?
Additional gearing adds drivetrain power loss (friction, slippage, etc.) which likely negates most/all of the efficiency savings.
This discusses VFD-controlled electric motors powering fans/pumps, but it's essentially the same principle. Efficiency doesn't drop drastically until the load drops to almost nothing. Part-load efficiency also improves with more powerful electric motors.
But how much money did he save in fuel. I would rather sit on my ass for 3 hours then have to work to pay for gas.
sounded like 3 hours of driving around in anxiety finding a charger
and 8 hour drive vs 5 daily is a big deal whether you're only away for a long weekend/2 week trip
what's a tank of gas daily when you're on a vacation? i dont mind spending a bit more on essentials when you're supposed to be relaxed
again, i'm for EVs on many aspects, but road trip is not one of them, not until there are chargers everywhere and portable cells you can carry as extras
Well, there's always the argument that he didn't save any money... he spent $100k on a small sedan... that's an awful lot of tanks of gas... but that's a personal choice I suppose.
Like I said, it's close... but right now I feel it's at that point where it's more a lifestyle decision than a sensible economics one.
That's exactly it! All this so called fuel savings is bullshit when you consider the model 3 is 50k vs a base model corolla is like 20k. You'll never make back the gas money.
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