Trump thread 2.0

[welfare]

Apologies if I'm beating a dead horse here, but after some clarity on this whole Roseanne thing, I've drawn a few conclusions.

First, whether you agree with all of what she says or none at all, i think most people can agree she says what she means. Not much filter. That being said, she's probably not the type to apologize without sincerity.
Looking at some of the Twitter responses and it's pretty disgusting.
I'm sorry, but brow beating and throwing every insult under the sun at a woman who made some disparaging remark and then apologized, doesn't make you a good person.

Second, why does just about every single article I've panned through consistently use the term "racist tweet"? There's absolutely no evidence that what she said was meant to be racist.
That's a pretty harsh accusation to make without evidence. But they just throw it around. To the point of trying to be convincing.

Third, there is no way in hell that fury would reign down this swift if she weren't a vocal trump supporter.
If she was tweeting this shit about trump instead, nothing would have happened. In fact, she would have been applauded. Like every other "comedian" is.

[welfare]

Aluminum/steel tariffs starting midnight.
Trudeaux "hitting back"

Canada hits back at U.S. with dollar-for-dollar tariffs on steel, aluminum, maple syrup | CBC News

"This is the strongest trade action Canada has taken in the post-war era. This is a very strong response, it is a proportionate response, it is perfectly reciprocal," Freeland told reporters.

I love how rational Freeland sounds. Bitch, you're dealing with a vicious protectionist here.
I wonder if Trudeaux will follow through on this.
Maybe buying the pipeline wasn't such a bad idea

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by welfare

Second, why does just about every single article I've panned through consistently use the term "racist tweet"? There's absolutely no evidence that what she said was meant to be racist.

She compared a black woman to an ape. If you don't think that's racist... well fuck I really don't even know what to say. Practically want to ban you for it

[ray666]

^^^This is going to be embarrassing, but I didn't "monkey" or "ape" is derogatory to black people up until maybe around 10 years ago.

[Traum]

The stupid Trump tariffs saved Trudoh's neck by drawing attention (and criticism) away from the KM pipeline stuff, and gave JT the perfect platform to seem like he is the guardian angel of all things Canada. If I were Trudoh, I'd definitely be thanking Trump under my breath...

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by ray666

^^^This is going to be embarrassing, but I didn't "monkey" or "ape" is derogatory to black people up until maybe around 10 years ago.

It's way more of an issue in the US than it is in Canada, so it's not too surprising...

[welfare]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

She compared a black woman to an ape. If you don't think that's racist... well fuck I really don't even know what to say. Practically want to ban you for it

She does look like dr zira though.
She was referencing the movie. Not just "an ape".

I don't know if it was meant to be racist or not. That's not completely evident. So I'm not going to draw that conclusion. And i personally don't think it's right that others immediately did.

[welfare]

Originally Posted by Traum

The stupid Trump tariffs saved Trudoh's neck by drawing attention (and criticism) away from the KM pipeline stuff, and gave JT the perfect platform to seem like he is the guardian angel of all things Canada. If I were Trudoh, I'd definitely be thanking Trump under my breath...

Doesn't Canada have way more to lose tho?
Canada sends 90% of its steel to US. But couldn't US just about be self sufficient on steel and aluminum?

[iwantaskyline]

Originally Posted by ray666

^^^This is going to be embarrassing, but I didn't "monkey" or "ape" is derogatory to black people up until maybe around 10 years ago.

It's because you live in Canada.

It's common in America and parts of Europe, it happens at least once a year during a soccer game in Italy or Russia where racist morons in the crowd will chant derogatory monkey noises to a black player.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by welfare

She does look like dr zira though.
She was referencing the movie. Not just "an ape".

I don't know if it was meant to be racist or not. That's not completely evident. So I'm not going to draw that conclusion. And i personally don't think it's right that others immediately did.

It doesn't even matter if that was the intent or not. What she tweeted is what matters. The words. Black person + ape. If you think she looks like a weird sci-fi character, pick something else. ANYTHING else.

She even went on to say that she didn't know she was black. Whether that's the case or not, I don't know. Personally I'd give her the benefit of doubt. But it doesn't matter because what she said about a black person was heinous, and even she will admit that, the explanation being she was so fucked out of her mind that she had no idea what she was writing. And with this drug, I'd buy her story there too. But again it doesn't matter.

And, if you think that comment is not racist and deserving of consequences, regardless of the intent, you are fucking so far beyond help it's not even funny.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by iwantaskyline

It's because you live in Canada.

It's common in America and parts of Europe, it happens at least once a year during a soccer game in Italy or Russia where racist morons in the crowd will chant derogatory monkey noises to a black player.

You should see twitch chat, it's fucking disgusting

[Bouncing Bettys]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

She compared a black woman to an ape. If you don't think that's racist... well fuck I really don't even know what to say. Practically want to ban you for it

You completely disregarded my previous response to you, which I beleive sufficiently countered your arguments, only to continue with them.

Of course comparing a black person to an ape can be racist under certain circumstances, and I'm sure welfare and everyone else in here would agree. What is at issue, is determining the true intentions, the context, of what Roseanne was saying with her tweet. There is no way of knowing for certain as that is the nature of text-based social interaction. There are a number of questions I have for someone who holds your opinion, which I beleive might help show why context matters:

If you had to describe a black woman to a someone who had never seen such a person before, would Valerie Jarrett fit your description? If your honest answer is no, then are others off base for believing she has such ambiguous features she could be mistaken for a number of different races/ethnicities, including white? Is it possible Roseanne was not aware of her background? Even if she was, is it possible she made a mistake in thinking it was ok to make the comparison, given that other public figures had been compared to primates without controversy? This would go back to that teachable moment, like white kids painting their faces to look black for Halloween and not understanding the connection to racist black face.

As to your assertion that Roseanne called her an ape, despite giving a movie title. Say you had to describe apes/monkies/chimps/orangutans so someone who had never seen such creatures. To help him best to understand, would you put on Planet of the Apes and its sequels and remakes, or put on nature documentaries featuring those creatures? If you're honest answer is the latter, than do you see there is a difference? You can't just say Planet of the Apes = ape = racist, without more evidence to show her making that connection?

She did immediately appologise once her mistake was pointed out. Time will tell if she truly meant it.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys

You completely disregarded my previous response to you, which I beleive sufficiently countered your arguments, only to continue with them.

Of course comparing a black person to an ape can be racist under certain circumstances, and I'm sure welfare and everyone else in here would agree. What is at issue, is determining the true intentions, the context, of what Roseanne was saying with her tweet. There is no way of knowing for certain as that is the nature of text-based social interaction. There are a number of questions I have for someone who holds your opinion, which I beleive might help show why context matters:

If you had to describe a black woman to a someone who had never seen such a person before, would Valerie Jarrett fit your description? If your honest answer is no, then are others off base for believing she has such ambiguous features she could be mistaken for a number of different races/ethnicities, including white? Is it possible Roseanne was not aware of her background? Even if she was, is it possible she made a mistake in thinking it was ok to make the comparison, given that other public figures had been compared to primates without controversy? This would go back to that teachable moment, like white kids painting their faces to look black for Halloween and not understanding the connection to racist black face.

As to your assertion that Roseanne called her an ape, despite giving a movie title. Say you had to describe apes/monkies/chimps/orangutans so someone who had never seen such creatures. To help him best to understand, would you put on Planet of the Apes and its sequels and remakes, or put on nature documentaries featuring those creatures? If you're honest answer is the latter, than do you see there is a difference? You can't just say Planet of the Apes = ape = racist, without more evidence to show her making that connection?

She did immediately appologise once her mistake was pointed out. Time will tell if she truly meant it.

"despite the movie title"

The movie title is Planet of the APES

FUCKING APES



I just can't fathom the depths of depravity you two are taking your brains into, in order to try to defend this. It actually hurts me as a human being. At first I couldn't believe there was some sort of alt-right movement with the tiki torches and all that shit, now I'm not surprised at all. People are literally losing their minds, on "both sides". The normal person left in the middle is just being driven to madness. The end result is a total shit storm

[welfare]

So it doesn't matter the intention. Doesn't matter if she didn't know she was black. Doesn't matter that she apologized.
She deserves to be dragged through the mud. Have her show wiped. And her reputation destroyed. All within a matter of minutes, without the chance for explanation.
Sounds reasonable?

[Mr.HappySilp]

Why don't we just cut off our power supple to the states. Mind as well send a message to Trump you play with fire you get burn.

[welfare]

Meanwhile yesterday, on live tv, comedian Samantha bee calls ivanka trump a "feckless c#nt", makes reference to incest with her father, and with zero repercussions, proceeds to accept an academy honors award for social change.

[originalhypa]

There definately is a double standard there.

However, I'm worried that the Roseanne tangent we are on is taking away from the Trump thread. I mean, he just imposed some serious tariffs basically declaring trade war with the rest of the world. And we're here talking about monkeys.

Maybe start a new thread. Call it the trump unemployment fallout thread?

[IMASA]

Originally Posted by welfare

Doesn't Canada have way more to lose tho?
Canada sends 90% of its steel to US. But couldn't US just about be self sufficient on steel and aluminum?

Not sure about steel, but from this article, it says for aluminum, it hurts the US more than Canada.

Canadian aluminum shows its mettle in face of Trump's tariff | CBC News

In fact, the top U.S. aluminum industry consultant says the tariff has, so far, actually enriched Canadian aluminum producers. That's because they responded to the announcement in March by factoring the tariff into their prices, and then essentially pocketed that 10 per cent surcharge during the two months that Canada enjoyed a tariff exemption.

"Trump wrote a cheque for $600 million to Canadian aluminum producers," said Jorge Vasquez of Harbor Aluminum in Austin, Tex., who has served as an adviser to both the U.S. International Trade Commission and the Canadian Trade Tribunal.

In effect, Trump's actions transferred more than half a billion dollars from the U.S. economy to Canada's since March.

1 smelter in Quebec produces almost as much as the entire aluminum production in the US, so I don't think they can just ramp up production to make up for what Canada exports to them.

[yray]

Originally Posted by IMASA

Not sure about steel, but from this article, it says for aluminum, it hurts the US more than Canada.

Canadian aluminum shows its mettle in face of Trump's tariff | CBC News



1 smelter in Quebec produces almost as much as the entire aluminum production in the US, so I don't think they can just ramp up production to make up for what Canada exports to them.

The steel market has already taken the tariffs in account. Good thing the prices were already increasing so it wasn't a shock, its just increased slightly faster.

[originalhypa]

Originally Posted by yray

The steel market has already taken the tariffs in account. Good thing the prices were already increasing so it wasn't a shock, its just increased slightly faster.

The tariffs are 25%, which is a huge jump.
As you said, the prices were already increasing. So you had a shakeup in the market with sellers notifying buyers of a price increase. Or, you would have companies eating the difference. That's fine if it goes up a few percent. But 25 points is more than the distributor profit. You can't eat that.

This is another crazy move by Trump. However, if profit for US business was his end result, it may work.



We have to keep in mind that steel and aluminum production are very dirty industries. AK Steel, the largest producer in the US was guilty of dumping over 12,000 tons of toxic chemicals into Ohio waterways in 2010. That's a lot of nastiness going into the water system.

Bringing the steel industry back to America could be good for their local economies, but it's going to be hell on the environment.

[yray]

Originally Posted by originalhypa

The tariffs are 25%, which is a huge jump.
As you said, the prices were already increasing. So you had a shakeup in the market with sellers notifying buyers of a price increase. Or, you would have companies eating the difference. That's fine if it goes up a few percent. But 25 points is more than the distributor profit. You can't eat that.

This is another crazy move by Trump. However, if profit for US business was his end result, it may work.



We have to keep in mind that steel and aluminum production are very dirty industries. AK Steel, the largest producer in the US was guilty of dumping over 12,000 tons of toxic chemicals into Ohio waterways in 2010. That's a lot of nastiness going into the water system.

Bringing the steel industry back to America could be good for their local economies, but it's going to be hell on the environment.

Offshore material was already 10-15% cheaper than north american material before the tariffs. Guess what china and india did, subsidized the another 10% more so the prices are still competitive versus north american material.
Don't get me started on north american inventory, takes me longer to get steel from chicago than from ningbo china. Now that Elogs are in place, LTL and TL is gonna be $$$$

[originalhypa]

Originally Posted by yray

Guess what china and india did, subsidized the another 10% more so the prices are still competitive versus north american material.

This is the part that gets me.
They subsidize their industries, and China has held the RMB low for over a decade now. I remember when Trump came into power and was complaining that the Canadian gov't was subsidizing the dairy industry. He was ready to shut down milk imports!

So the man is insane, for sure. But he's not too insane to poke the two nations with over half the human population.

[Bouncing Bettys]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

"despite the movie title"

The movie title is Planet of the APES

FUCKING APES



I just can't fathom the depths of depravity you two are taking your brains into, in order to try to defend this. It actually hurts me as a human being. At first I couldn't believe there was some sort of alt-right movement with the tiki torches and all that shit, now I'm not surprised at all. People are literally losing their minds, on "both sides". The normal person left in the middle is just being driven to madness. The end result is a total shit storm

As someone who is deep in the Left Libertarian corner of the Political Compass, and not some alt-right tiki torch bearer, I hold free speech and personal freedoms in high regard. While this is not necessarily a free speech issue, part of what comes with such values is an understanding of the importance of context and nuance, especially in a text-based medium where those concepts are notoriously hard to display or discern.

The fact that you can ignore this and pick apart a statement so easily, like a someone picking off all the mushrooms from his mushroom fettuccine, until all that is left is one word, is a bit concerning. That you can draw a conclusion and condemn someone in such a way, while ignoring everything presented to you, is alarming. You want to talk about depths of depravity, look no further than your unsupported argument.

If anyone here can identify which character Michael Clarke Duncan played in 2001's Planet of The Apes, without looking it up on imdb or skipping to the end credits, you are by definition a racist. Just ask Skinny.

[will068]

Originally Posted by welfare

She does look like dr zira though.
She was referencing the movie. Not just "an ape".

I don't know if it was meant to be racist or not. That's not completely evident. So I'm not going to draw that conclusion. And i personally don't think it's right that others immediately did.

The stupidity in this post is uncanny.

[Bouncing Bettys]

I have been on hold with FedEx for 20 min, just trying to get through. I have to wonder if they are just being swamped with calls from customers now that this tariff is in place.