Canadian politics thread

[Traum]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Thing is, if we hadn’t had given Ukraine 15 billion dollars, an investment with virtually zero return (which will look much worse if Russia eventually succeeds) those 10’s of billions would have just been squandered on sonthing else anyways. So we might as well add to the debt if we can actually achieve sonthing.. which, given the track record of all govt. is unlikely, but money and funding are really the only things that can enact change.

The current state of the Ukraine war is the perfect showcase of how gutless and pussified the NATO countries are. Imagine what today's world would have been like had the WW2 Europe kept appeasing Nazi Germany. This is more or less what is happening in Ukraine now -- the war has dragged on so long because NATO has only been willing to drip feed Ukraine with barely enough weaponry to not get defeated, instead of actually stepping up to provide them with enough weapons to actually win the war.

The only way I can see the world digging itself out of this mess for now is when Putin croaks, however that comes to happens.

Funding the Haiti operations, on the other hand, is a complete waste of money. Haiti is already a failed state. And with previous half a$$ed attempts by the UN to provide help, Haitians have grown extremely skeptical of international help as well. Until the international community is willing to bring forth a determined, coordinated, and sustained effort to restore order there, it is impossible to provide any actual help. But since the international community can't even help Ukraine when there is so much justification for it, helping Haiti is really nothing more than an impossible pipe dream.

[whitev70r]

Traum for Foreign Affairs Minister of next government.

[68style]

Originally Posted by Traum

The current state of the Ukraine war is the perfect showcase of how gutless and pussified the NATO countries are. Imagine what today's world would have been like had the WW2 Europe kept appeasing Nazi Germany. This is more or less what is happening in Ukraine now -- the war has dragged on so long because NATO has only been willing to drip feed Ukraine with barely enough weaponry to not get defeated, instead of actually stepping up to provide them with enough weapons to actually win the war.

The only way I can see the world digging itself out of this mess for now is when Putin croaks, however that comes to happens.

Nobody in WW2 had to worry about massive arsenals of nuclear weapons??? That's the entire reason no country has moved too aggressively.

[westopher]

I'm amazed that people don't see the value in helping Ukraine, if not from a simply decent thing to do for an ally that is being invaded absolutely unprovoked, but to help an ally keep our common enemy from becoming more powerful. If Russia was allowed to just attack without consequences they become a greater threat to us as well.
The same people that are angry about us spending money on these operations want us to up our military spending.

[whitev70r]

^ I think initially, I was all in helping Ukraine but 2 yrs later, I'm beginning to wonder what the end game is and what the hell the West got themselves into. Russia has survived everything we threw at them - remember the big sanctions against oligarchs, took their yachts, froze their accounts in Western banks, etc. plus the trillions of military supplies (bombs, planes, missiles, drones, etc.) from the West. Putin seems as smug as ever .. there were moments it appears he was weakened but then he killed that general and now Navalny. How many more years can we keep on going 'weakening' Russia? It doesn't look like Russia is about to 'lose' this war anytime soon.

[westopher]

I also don't think they will lose this war, but from a tactical perspective, it keeps them from getting stronger.
Money spent on keeping kids from getting blown up is honestly the money best spent from my perspective, whether Ukraine or Palestine or where ever needs it. I'm angry about government mismanagement of money, but this doesn't fit that bill for me.
I don't agree with the bystander effect mentality of "someone else should do it" because it also reminds me of the "but India and China" argument about climate change so certain people think we just shouldn't bother. The world can't solve any of its problems if everyone just thinks someone else needs to deal with it first.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

^ I think initially, I was all in helping Ukraine but 2 yrs later, I'm beginning to wonder what the end game is and what the hell the West got themselves into. Russia has survived everything we threw at them - remember the big sanctions against oligarchs, took their yachts, froze their accounts in Western banks, etc. plus the trillions of military supplies (bombs, planes, missiles, drones, etc.) from the West. Putin seems as smug as ever .. there were moments it appears he was weakened but then he killed that general and now Navalny. How many more years can we keep on going 'weakening' Russia? It doesn't look like Russia is about to 'lose' this war anytime soon.

The consensus among analysts seem be that one possible end game outcome would occur is if Donald Trump becomes POTUS again. It is no secret that he has said at least multiple times to the effect that he will end the Russia-Ukraine war within 24 hrs if he were to get involved, and that would most likely mean he will pull the plug (or at least treaten to do so) on providing support for Ukraine, and force Ukraine into accepting whatever truce conditions Ukraine can salvage at the whims of Putin by then. The most likely outcome in that case would just be an immediate ceasefire with both sides keeping whatever territories they are occupying at the point in time. (And of course that would be a huge insult to Ukraine.)

NATO has no military hardware capacity to support Ukraine without the US being there as the primary supplier.

Of course, none of these possible outcomes would sway US voters by any means, esp among Trump supporters.

[whitev70r]

Originally Posted by Traum

The consensus among analysts seem be that one possible end game outcome would occur is if Donald Trump becomes POTUS again. It is no secret that he has said at least multiple times to the effect that he will end the Russia-Ukraine war within 24 hrs if he were to get involved, and that would most likely mean he will pull the plug (or at least treaten to do so) on providing support for Ukraine, and force Ukraine into accepting whatever truce conditions Ukraine can salvage at the whims of Putin by then. The most likely outcome in that case would just be an immediate ceasefire with both sides keeping whatever territories they are occupying at the point in time. (And of course that would be a huge insult to Ukraine.)

Yah, read about this as a possibility ... so in other words, we (the West) & Ukraine lost and Russia won.

Zelensky also said, 'Mr. Trump, if you can end the war in 24 hrs, we invite you to come to Ukraine'. But something tells me Zelensky won't be too happy about Trump's solution/approach.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-...0dangerous.%22

There just isn't any good solution really and it might be choosing between the better of 2 bad options.

I'm hoping Putin croaks honestly.

[68style]

My list of people I wish would die currently consists of: Trump, Putin and Tucker Carlson

[whitev70r]

+ 1 more ... Netanyahu

[Manic!]

Look who is now pro imagration. Wants to speed it up.
https://youtu.be/xp2OOHborxg?si=cUh9SKNi_zJgQrlQ

From what I hear the host is also running for a con nomination.

[Hondaracer]

4 million of that Ukraine money is for “ Gender-inclusive demining”

providing capacity building to key national stakeholders; and establishing a gender and diversity working group to promote gender-transformative mine action in Ukraine.

Half this fucking official PM release reads like a fucking parody website Jesus Christ

https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/backgro...upport-ukraine

[Badhobz]

Are you fucking kidding me. Fuck you trudeau.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Thing is, if we hadn’t had given Ukraine 15 billion dollars, an investment with virtually zero return (which will look much worse if Russia eventually succeeds) those 10’s of billions would have just been squandered on sonthing else anyways. So we might as well add to the debt if we can actually achieve sonthing.. which, given the track record of all govt. is unlikely, but money and funding are really the only things that can enact change.

3% of our budget to weaken our large(est?) enemy and expose the weaknesses of their military with no risk to our own personnel or territory is a great bang for the buck.

[Great68]

Strengthening world stability is not "virtually zero return".

Think about the next time some country wants a piece of their neighbour, what happens to food & commodity prices around the world? That absoluely impacts Canadians.

Also, the largest war in the history of the world occurred because of that sort of stupid "Wasting money helping some other country across the globe mentality" until eventually it was forced to happen, and was 10 times worse than if it had just been stamped out at the very beginning.

Small minds can't think of the big picture.

[Hondaracer]

lol please… spare us the WW2 comparisons.

My question is really, why does Canada have to be one of the largest monetary supporters of this conflict? No one seems to be able to answer that.

And that article I posted above just outlines how daft all their contributions really are.. we have a govt. that can’t even track the finances for a stupid app.. yet you have confidence that their funding going toward “gender diverse demining” is actually going to good use?

It’s just another case of throwing money blindly out into the world with no way to track tangible outcomes.

Edit, lol…

[Badhobz]

At least supporting Ukraine is a just cause. However supporting gender inclusive de-mining is fucking horseshit. what the hell is wrong with this idiot

Gender-inclusive demining for sustainable futures in Ukraine
Funding: $4 million
This project from the HALO Trust aims to safeguard the lives and livelihoods of Ukrainians, including women and internally displaced persons, by addressing the threat of explosive ordnance present across vast areas of the country. Project activities include conducting non-technical surveys and subsequent manual clearance in targeted communities; providing capacity building to key national stakeholders; and establishing a gender and diversity working group to promote gender-transformative mine action in Ukraine.

Who cares if its men or women who de mines ukraine!? why does he attach gender equality strings to this !?

[Hondaracer]

The fact that that wording was specifically included in fucking DEMINING shows just how completely oblivious and out of touch the govt. is like what in the fuck are you thinking?

It’s a miracle carbon taxation or recycling of the undetonated mines wasn’t included in the release.

Trudeau - “Russia must win this war”

https://www.rt.com/news/593198-canad...ussia-win/amp/

[68style]

I don't mind taking up a cause... but when you post stuff that says "Members of military live in tent cities".............. I mean it's such a bait headline, really? LIke... they found 1 dude somewhere that used to be in the army who got hooked on some shit after he got back home and lives in a tent now and that's Turd's fault?

Jesus christ............. how much more divisive does it get? Just throwing out wild accusations with no basis or backstory to make simpletons with no critical thinking skills angry.

[westopher]

There were no homeless veterans in Canada and US before Trudeau and Biden. That's a guarantee.

[Hondaracer]

lol obviously I know it’s just some IG trigger shit

Just get a chuckle seeing it and the resulting comments

Could the money that’s been sent to Ukraine house every homeless person in Canada? Legitimately it might have been able to.

[68style]

Money has never in the history of money ever gone to homeless people lol

You think Harper was standing there saying "What about the poors at home?" PP gonna do that? ANYONE ever done that?

Aiyaaaaaaaaa

[sonick]

Originally Posted by 68style

Money has never in the history of money ever gone to homeless people lol

You think Harper was standing there saying "What about the poors at home?" PP gonna do that? ANYONE ever done that?

Aiyaaaaaaaaa

no, how it works is that governments give big corporations tax cuts, and then that extra money from the cuts trickles down by the corporations hiring homeless people.

[Hondaracer]

No because everyone is garbage. And like I’ve said before, it’s not in the interest of all the back handed deals in place with politicians and private companies to have a healthy, successful, population, that doesn’t need to rely on the govts. tit

[JD¹³]

Originally Posted by 68style

I don't mind taking up a cause... but when you post stuff that says "Members of military live in tent cities".............. I mean it's such a bait headline, really? LIke... they found 1 dude somewhere that used to be in the army who got hooked on some shit after he got back home and lives in a tent now and that's Turd's fault?

Jesus christ............. how much more divisive does it get? Just throwing out wild accusations with no basis or backstory to make simpletons with no critical thinking skills angry.

Actually, numerous current serving members have been discovered living in tents or their vehicles because they can't afford rents. Military members have also been using food banks. Military personnel are especially at risk of the inflation in Canada because the government hasn't upped their salary to keep up with the inflation and they are typically posted to a new location every 2-3 years. That means buying/selling houses, moving costs, etc are all at market rates and they can't keep up. When I was in CFB Cold Lake around 2015 this all started when lower ranks ALL had to have second jobs outside of the CF to survive and some were even busking / begging around town because they couldn't afford to live. The government has recently cut Posted Living Differential payments to save money which has resulted in pay cuts for most members so now they're struggling even more: https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/sold...eyre-1.6595383

A 16-year veteran Sergent in Trenton just had a Court Martial for having to forge receipts to avoid eviction and homelessness for his family. Why? Because the CF isn't paying enough and are so short staffed they have held him in debt for months not processing his claims for a recent move: https://inquinte.ca/story/cfb-trento...fraudulent-act

This is the state of the Canadian military under the Liberal Gov: collapse.