so the Liberals can't learn and grow from a wrongdoing?

should JT do his daily briefing in blackface too to provide some consistency?

I say no.

No matter how crazy things are down south, at the end of the day we share a border and many societal similarities with the Americans. We have to honour our extradition treaties.

I say no too.

China already see Canada as a puppet country that it would accommodate most of its requests. By letting Meng go, not only are we jeopardizing our own fundamental values (judicial independence), but also upsetting the US-Canada relationship.

We export over 70% of our goods to the US... while China accounts less than 5 (2016, first dataset I found)... why would anyone think it's better to let China has its way while upsetting our closest ally is beyond me.

To be clear, it’s not about letting China have its way. It’s about protecting two Canadian citizens that are being unlawfully detained. I do agree it’s not the right move though.

wouldn't be surprised at all if it was revealed they were /shrug

Except I don't think JT saw it was a wrongdoing ... he went down fighting, claiming it was for jobs but we know it was for votes in Quebec. Look, I'm not an ultra con and no intention to convince you to vote Con in the next election. In fact, if there was an election, I probably vote Lib (with the hope that JT would 1st lose the leadership race). I think Liberals are doing a lot of good things but can we not be so pompous and indignant about shit that still stinks in your own house?

I know it's not a fair question but it's easy to say no as a keyboard warrior. Would it affect your decision if it was closer to home ... what if it was your father or your spouse who was detained in China for Meng?

China' expertise, copy other people. Detain one of ours, we detain 2 of yours. Sure they claim it's not linked, but it's the Chinese, can't believe shit all that comes from them.

Just to add my $0.02, and that is that I am against such a deal. It sets a dangerous precedent for our country and its citizens in that state actors will now operate under the assumption that hostage diplomacy is an effective tool at making Canada acquiesce to demands.

I fully empathize with Kovrig and Spavor and their respective families as this situation must be excruciatingly difficult. However, foreigners living and working on their own volition in China should be aware of the inherent risks they face that are unique to China - one of them being arbitrary arrest/detention without legal representation. There are thousands of Canadian citizens who currently live and work in China (a good friend of mine does as well) and go about their daily lives in a normal unfettered fashion. However, if any of them were to find themselves in a bad situation (trouble with the law) at some point, they could face a lengthy detention while the case was being investigated as well as difficulty finding legal representation.

That's why it's not up to one person, and it's why there's judiciary independence.

You guys are so naive and innocent ... it's almost cute to watch. You're like little 2 year olds that haven't seen the real world. You really think this hasn't happened before? You really think that Cdn government never paid ransom in exchange for prisoners? Here are just some recent examples:


Kidnapped: Do governments pay ransoms to militants?
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/kidnap...ants-1.2662559

Amanda Lindhout
The Canadian journalist and an Australian photographer were captured in Somalia in August 2008 after trying to visit a Somalian refugee camp. The two were held for 15 months and eventually released following a reported $600,000 U.S. ransom payment, according to the Globe and Mail. Both families had attempted to raise the money for ransom, and Lindhout’s father even took out a second mortgage on his house, but eventually the funding was guaranteed by an Australian businessman. The money was delivered by a private security firm hired by the families.

Robert Fowler and Louis Guay
The two Canadian diplomats were kidnapped in Niger in late 2008 and were held for about four months in western Africa. They were eventually released. It later emerged that a ransom had been paid to free them, according to a report by the Associated Press, though the Canadian government denied paying anything. It was unclear who paid. The ransom was about $1.1 million for the two diplomats.

Mellissa Fung
Mellissa Fung, a CBC journalist, was captured in Afghanistan in October 2008. She was held for 28 days, mostly in a small cave underground. She said in a CBC report that she was released when Afghan authorities arrested a family member of one of her captors. They made a trade: Fung for the captor’s mother.

Ransom paid for Canadian diplomats: leaked cable
https://www.ctvnews.ca/ransom-paid-f...cable-1.603795

You know what's actually cute is how far China's dick is up your butt, that it's blurred your vision into thinking anyone is going to fall for this bs tactic to try and get meng free, they're not going to sway public opinion, no matter how strong they're attacking on all fronts atm. Just let the judicial system play out, at least for the public (who knows what backroom deals may be going on, or payments)

except this is a major diplomatic/trading partner..not some African warlord/thug (even though they’re sure acting the part)

Equating diplomacy with China to dealing with extortionists

Equating kidnapped diplomats and journalists with someone facing serious criminal charges

Lol what a fucking loser

Since when are Aussies and Afghans the Canadian government? Not to mention paying ransom is completely different from the situation here. This is multinational politics and law we're talking about.

This seems more likely than not.

Let's just assume what you said was right.

However, when it comes to decisions like this, it's never about the face value, but the further implication of it.

Today they detained 2 Canadians on some bullshit charges in exchange for Meng, which is just another private Chinese citizen if China is to be believed. What is going to happen next?

Between HK and China, there are over 600,000 Canadian citizens living there. Next time when we face a major dispute with China, one so big that you're basically giving up the country to China... say change our political system from a democracy to communism (exaggeration, but you get the point), they take another 100 out of those 600k. What do you do? Ask US for help? :rukidding:

And if you can give up those 100... heck, even all 600 thousand of them to preserve what we see CORRECT as a country, then... it makes zero sense to give in.

No person's life is more important than the value that we, as Canadian, share as a group. The bravest Canadians fought in wars to preserve our value. For us to give it away to China is a fucking insult to those who died for our freedom.

The ONLY reasonable thing to do was to let our judicial system does its thing. That is the only fair thing to do.

^ Fair enough, well articulated vs. some of the previous childish replies.

It may be that China is using this strategy (imprisoning the 2 Michaels) today because in the past, they know that governments (including Canada) will bend on this or they will figure out a 3rd party way to negotiate for freedom of individuals. So you could say what we see happening today is a result of previous and past capitulations (which I can't believe some of you refuse to believe after using CBC and CTV sources). To say, no we won't this time is what 'those in the know' (ie. some of the diplomats who signed that statement supporting trade Meng for 2 Michaels to end this thing) is thinking, 'C'mon, why not, we did before. This one isn't even our fight, it's the US fight with China, we're being played.'

As for your scenario of Canada needing help from the US. Remember, this is Trump's fight with China. If Biden gets in and shit happens between Canada and China, and we ask for help, believe me, it should be no problems. If Trump is still there for 4 more years, well, first, God helps us all. I don't think that man-child would help Canada (apparently, he doesn't like JT or jelly of JT) without us giving them something in return. No ally of US is sure of anything while Trump is in the Oval office.

The Canadian government is right to not bend to China's blatant extortion. Whether politically motivated like this case or financially motivated like terrorism cases of the past - as soon as the Canadian government bows or pays it greenlights the kidnapping of Canadian citizens worldwide.

The most recent example of this is the two men that were executed in the Philippines in 2016. The families raised 1.4 million of the 16+ Abu Sayyaf was demanding for the second victim and the Canadian government rightly refused to help pay. What the government didn't have the balls to do was allow a rescue operation to take place. Duterte wouldn't negotiate with the group either and openly called for them all to be killed. I've heard our guys were staged but never got the go-ahead, the question is which national leader said no. Both men were decapitated alive.

The current situation in China is obviously quite different but the policy must remain the same. I feel for the victims and their families but the decision that's been made is the right one.

And, honestly all those "distinguished" Canadians who signed that letter should be ashamed of themselves. Not only did this PR stunt undermine the government's position, it backed the gov't into a corner. Instead of accomplishing what they set out to do i.e. convince the Canadian gov't to negotiate a deal w/China, the letter more or less forced the gov't to double down on its current stance of non-interference in the case.

UK drops Huawei

So they can buy as much 5g equipment they'll need until the end of the year... And then have to remove it all by the time 5g is obsolete

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-53403793

lol

There was already a cap on how much kit they could buy by 2023, and I doubt anyone was in a hurry to hit that cap in the first place. Also banning purchases by December effectively means they'll stop buying it now. Core parts were already banned - only things like antennas and base stations could use Huawei parts.

Network removal, of what little exists, will be mandated to be removed by 27, but again it will likely be long gone by then anyway. This just gives them some time to recover whatever was bought, as Nokia and Ericsson may not be able to meet the world's demands as quickly as possible.

The UK doesn't want to be dependent on Nokia either so its like -_- seems like they could've done better still