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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
For interests sake. The mechanical issue with Lion Air actually happened the previous leg as well. Improperly corrected by maintenance, it happened again followed by a crash. The difference in outcome is how the pilots dealt with it. Since Lion air, the procedures changed very slightly. Boeing issued thes changes the day of the crash. The plane is not dangerous. But if not operated correctly it could be. ...Just like every other plane out there.
__________________ There's a phallic symbol infront of my car
Quote:
MG1: in fact, a new term needs to make its way into the American dictionary. Trump............ he's such a "Trump" = ultimate insult. Like, "yray, you're such a trump."
bcrdukes yray fucked bcrdukes up the nose
dapperfied yraisis
dapperfied yray so waisis
FastAnna you literally talk out your ass
FastAnna i really cant
FastAnna yray i cant stand you
737 max two crashes, and I believe several scares (where pilots cut the flight short by doubling back or landing elsewhere), all in the same manner of it nose diving...say what you want, but I fly often, and Im avoiding them
For those that really only know aviation from the media, just take a peak at AvHerald. It is a database which lists most reported incidents around the world.
Hydraulic issues, blown tires, electronic problems, hyjackings. You name it. These things do happen. On the mechanical side there is generally a multitude of backups. Some require more attention then others. When aircraft turn around. Sometimes it isn’t safety related. Perhaps where the aircraft is going to, there is no maintenance, or adequate maintenance. It’s hard to understand if you just know that the media is telling you. Do some research and get knowledgeable before you make your decisions
Very good quote from PPrune (professional pilot's forum) via Reddit:
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Yes, sounds easy if you're 100% confident that MCAS is wrong. But, MCAS is reacting to sensor data- the same data that the instruments in front of your eyes are relaying to you. If your AOA indicator goes haywire, or your ASI is showing lower than stall speed, then you'll have a difficult situation. What MCAS does... it controls flight surfaces to prevent a stall that is likely to occur given the sensor inputs that it's receiving. If you're flying you'll usually trust the instruments- the same instruments as MCAS. Maybe other MCAS interventions haven't been noticed or reported because the rest of the time it's actually functioned the exact same way as the pilots have operated anyway.
If you've just taken off on most other aircraft, if you get a low reading from ASI, or even stick shaker, your first priority is to try to control the aircraft, stabilize flight, level off if at a safe altitude, call a pan and go through the checklists... whereby you eventually should discover that the ASI sensor is bad, Air speed is fine and switch to the alternate input and go on your merry way. Why MCAS is scary is that it 100% relies on sensor data- you're now in the exact same situation as described above, with the exception being that your aircraft has just trimmed nose down by itself, any breathing space you had to troubleshoot has been eroded by MCAS nose down, and any time you could have used to figure out the problem is now spent trying to pull back on the yoke as hard as you can.
It's very easy to say "just pull a couple of CBs, disconnect trim switch, everything will be fine", but in those circumstances, you're on climb out of airport XYZ, suddenly the stick-shaker goes, the ASI in front of your eyes IS showing a reading that's abnormally 'low', the aircraft just trimmed itself nose down to prevent stall, before you have any chance to diagnose the problem you're fighting against the MCAS nose down attitude, your right hand man has 200 hrs all-in and is panicking.
Again, like I said earlier, absolutely not jumping to conclusions as to what caused this tragedy. Again, just re-examining the MCAS issue that has been brought up. Again, stating that MCAS in and of itself should not be a problem- providing the inputs are 100% reliable the software goes unnoticed and may even act as a safety net in the manner it was designed to be. Again, the problem that I see that I haven't seen highlighted previously is the hardware! MCAS relies on data, sensors are the source of the data, why are the sensors so fallible?? Why can't they spend more money on the hardware- ensuring sensors are foolproof with adequate redundancies that can always be relied upon?
The little bit of perusing I did on the MCAS states that it works in increments, trims down for a bit, pauses to see if there's a change, then trims some more. Read that it would take 55 seconds to get a full trim down situation. Furthermore, seems as though it's disconnected when you turn off a couple of the electric trim options...
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Originally Posted by hud 91gt
The plane is not dangerous. But if not operated correctly it could be. ...Just like every other plane out there.
The little bit of perusing I did on the MCAS states that it works in increments, trims down for a bit, pauses to see if there's a change, then trims some more. Read that it would take 55 seconds to get a full trim down situation. Furthermore, seems as though it's disconnected when you turn off a couple of the electric trim options...
Like that ATR that feathered the wrong engine...
MCAS also deactivates once flaps have been retracted
What was your entry.. I was looking at it, but pussied out... I was gonna get in at -8%, but didn't know where it was going to go.. Hindsight is 20/20 I guess.
UK grounded the aircraft. Now it looks really bad if your still flying them
In the eye of the passenger. Seems it will be a “because they are” game now.
average pax can't tell the difference between 737/738/739/a321/a320
__________________ There's a phallic symbol infront of my car
Quote:
MG1: in fact, a new term needs to make its way into the American dictionary. Trump............ he's such a "Trump" = ultimate insult. Like, "yray, you're such a trump."
bcrdukes yray fucked bcrdukes up the nose
dapperfied yraisis
dapperfied yray so waisis
FastAnna you literally talk out your ass
FastAnna i really cant
FastAnna yray i cant stand you
Eyewitnesses in Ethernopia said that there was fire coming from the tail, and debris was falling out of the plane as it went down. You have to consider that these are witness reports, and may not be reliable. But if it is true, the cause of the crash could be more sinister than a bad sensor.
I'm flying back from Tokyo on Saturday. I justed checked the aircraft - Boeing 789 (I think a variant of the 787).
Two of our friends are flying to Hawaii in july and august and they both are on a 737 max aircraft... They are going to wait and see what the reports say, they are hoping the problems get resolved by then...
If not, they have no problem paying the $200 change fee. shitty the airlines won't let them change for free, but $200 seems a small price to pay for your perceived safety.
I understand it's hard for the average person to feel safe in one of these after the media sensationalizes the situation.
I really shouldn't presume or predict - we should all wait for more conclusive reports after the investigations.
That said, I'm going to make a bold statement anyway. Does anyone think Lion Air or Air Ethiopia is going to have the same standards for training and maintenance as say, your average North American airline???? Does anyone think may, just maybe, it's less an issue with the design of the plane and more an issue of improper training or maintenance?
The post on PPRUNE gave away a little nugget of support evidence to my above claim. ..."your right hand man has 200 hrs all-in and is panicking."
I have 400 hours all-in and the best job I'd get with those hours is dropping skydivers or pulling banners. A Canadian airline will not even consider a co-joe with less than 1200hours for a dash8 never fucking mind for a 737max.
So if an airline has 200, or 400, or 800 hour FOs How much experience do you think the Captain is going to have? Where the flight crew tested on MCAS operation and what was their score on that test??? Don't get me wrong - I am NOT faulting the pilots, I am rather highly skeptical of the standards that some airlines have.
I think the smart money is to buy Boeing stock NOW, because in no time it'll be dealt with a simple training bulletin or a software update and eventually the stock will be back up.
In the meanwhile, I have 100% faith in Air Canada and WestJets training standards and flight crew experience. The min experience threshold is very high for Canadian Airline pilots.. I would have no problem letting my fam flying a 737max as long as I trust the crew is experienced.
That’s kinda what I was thinking even prior to that Sam Chui video etc. lack of experience and not realizing to disengage that trim feature quick enough most likely caused these indigents. Doesn’t really escape Boeing from the liability and seeming lack of training on this new feature but I wouldn’t want to fly with some of these airlines if i can help it just for the reasons you lined out there.
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Dank memes cant melt steel beams
CEO of ethiopian airlines saying there was indeed, "Flight control problems". As of right now, they don't know the details of those flight control problems..
Black boxes need to be sent somewhere else for reading as they do not have the equipment to do so. Not sure if I would trust the states with that information..
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