coronavirus discussion

[Great68]

Originally Posted by Traum

The argument with smoking is -- 2nd hand smoke is just as bad, or some times worse than 1st hand smoke. So while smoking isn't strictly a communicable disease, it still sort of is (via 2nd hand smoke). And then it comes back to the question of where we draw the line.


I can see a couple of argument against what you're saying here too. Firstly, I'd say it is questionable whether our healthcare system can really handle smokers and a bunch of other stuff that we've listed. Cancer treatment and resources can always be spent on other non-smoking patients that do not have lung cancer. ER can always use more doctors. We have an overdose crisis and treatment for those who OD are very expensive and often quite the revolving door. If we drop the COVID patients off healthcare's financial coverage, do we also drop OD people from healthcare financial coverage as well?

Some people could also claim that a healthcare system that cannot better care for our current number of COVID patients is a failure of the system itself, and that it should be dramatically expanded to build that capacity. And our healthcare is inadequate -- look at all those wait times for "elective surgeries". I hate that term because "elective surgery" isn't really elective in a lot of cases. It just means it isn't immediately life threatening, but it could still be very bad.

As much as I'd like to just fxxk the anti-vax idiots, the spectrum from black to gray to white makes it too difficult to draw that line.

I think that if we're going to set the precedence that anti-vaxxers, or smokers or anyone that participates in any sort of health-risky activity be denied public healthcare, then those people should be allowed to:

A) Stop paying their share of taxes towards public health care (I don't think it's right to force someone to pay for something they can't use)

B) Obtain private, for pay health care services

However I don't think the government, or we as a society want to go down this route, it would be seriously opening up a huge can of worms.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

They have their fair share of anti vaxxers and nutjobs, and it only takes a few to mess everything up.

They have had way more people die in the last month than any other month since covid started.

Someone's mom died from it, and she found conversations on her WhatsApp church group chat with her talking about not getting vaccinated, buying ivermectin when she got sick, being mad at her daughter for going on about vaccines, etc. It was an interesting look at what goes on in someone's head who is antivax but not necessarily a nutjob. Just influenced by cults instead of science.

My Aunt's husband lives in Singapore and works as one of those Hawker stall owners was basically coerced into getting the vaccine after he displayed some hesitancy when the vaccine first came out. I figured the gov't there would be kicking down doors and whatnot, but there's probably a not-small subset of the population in Asia just keeping quiet about their anti-vaxx tendencies unlike like the visible loudmouth anti-vaxx idiots we have in the West.

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

WhatsApp church group chat

This explains a lot of it.

[JDMDreams]

When do you guys think they will scrap the tests for coming back via land border? If we can go down without tests it should be the same coming back. Or if they are scared of cases coming in then keep the borders closed.

The tests coming back mean nothing as even if you get infected, you might not have enough antigens for the test to pick up.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

When do you guys think they will scrap the tests for coming back via land border? If we can go down without tests it should be the same coming back. Or if they are scared of cases coming in then keep the borders closed.

The tests coming back mean nothing as even if you get infected, you might not have enough antigens for the test to pick up.

Personally, I'm very optimistic that the negative PCR test will be scrapped for land and sea crossings back into Canada. Theresa Tam has recently indicated that the issue needs to be re-examined after much of the business sector around the country all joined in on bitching at the Libs. We have premiers opposing the measure -- I'm sure Horgan isn't alone here. We have municipal governments disagreeing with the measure.

I obviously don't know when things are going to change, but my hope is, the requirement will be dropped by March at the latest. By then, the bulk of the winter respiratory illness season should start fading, and it'd make even more sense by then.

[Hondaracer]

I’m hoping by then as well. Have a trip booked for Mexico in march with like 12 people and it seems like getting the pcr tedt there is a big headache..

[lilaznviper]

Originally Posted by 68style

The worst part now is all the people spreading it and re-spreading it are creating mutations and variations, even within Canada. It’s not even as simple as them slowing down recovery or clogging up hospitals or waiting for them all to get sick… They’re literally preventing us from being able to stop it.

my mother inlaw has a couple of wechat groups doing this and she forwards it over to us. so many messages saying covid is fake, vaccines kill people, they are lying to people about how many people are in the hospital etc...

the worse thing is that she sometimes believe this stuff.

[mikemhg]

We fly out to Puerto Vallarta on December 25th, so hoping as fuck this stupid PCR test is scrapped.

Also itching for a little drive down to Bellingham here.

[Hondaracer]

You can be the Guinea pig Mike.. I’ve heard completely mixed things as to getting the tests at the resort, or having to do go a clinic etc and not getting the results in time

So if your pcr test is positive in Mexico, ya better have the dough to live there until you test clean? Lol

[JDMDreams]

I thought the rule is if you are positive, they still let you back into Canada? You just have to quarantine.

[inv4zn]

I was speaking with someone today who said he booked a trip to a resort in Mexico mid-December, and that they will provide the PCR test at the resort. If it tests positive you stay in your room for 2 weeks with room service, and it's included as part of the rate. Not sure how much he paid or if it's a part of some "covid insurance package" but I could think of worse ways to spend 2 weeks of quarantine.

[Hondaracer]

There was definitely nothing like that offered where we booked lol

As far as I know there was no requirement for PCR on arrival, you only have to arrange your own for departing back to Canada

[JDMDreams]

I know of two people traveling this week, one to Mexico and one to Thailand .

Thailand one is on his own to get tested before coming back, Mexico one said the resort includes the test to come back but not sure what will happen if they get tested positive.

[donk.]

Being stuck in mehico, for 2 weeks, while you can see 26C weather outside, is depressing

Being stuck in raincouver, for 2 weeks, while its 6C outside, is much less depressing, plus you would have all your hobbies to occupied with.....

[Traum]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

I thought the rule is if you are positive, they still let you back into Canada? You just have to quarantine.

Yeah, for Canadian citizens / PR, you just have to quarantine upon returning to Canada if your COVID tests is positive. That's why they still make you specify your quarantine plan. I think you're supposed to do all that in the ArriveCAN app?

As a matter of principle, I think it is down right unconstitutional for Canada to refuse entry to a Canadian citizen / PR. You can set rules to make me do stuff after coming back into Canada, but you can't turn me away from entering the country since that is a right bestowed to citizens / PR.

[Hondaracer]

Just fucking PCR test every incoming traveller at the airport then..another fail by the Canadian govt. passing the buck onto other jurisdictions

All these travel vloggers etc going through Europe and Asia and getting tests right in the airport upon arrival..

[SumAznGuy]

Originally Posted by Traum

Yeah, for Canadian citizens / PR, you just have to quarantine upon returning to Canada if your COVID tests is positive. That's why they still make you specify your quarantine plan. I think you're supposed to do all that in the ArriveCAN app?

As a matter of principle, I think it is down right unconstitutional for Canada to refuse entry to a Canadian citizen / PR. You can set rules to make me do stuff after coming back into Canada, but you can't turn me away from entering the country since that is a right bestowed to citizens / PR.

So you tests positive for Covid and can fly back and quarantine for 2 weeks.
What happens to the other passengers on the flight who tested negative but have to smell your farts for however long your flight is.

I'm kinda curious what the governments thoughts are on that.

[StylinRed]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

We fly out to Puerto Vallarta on December 25th, so hoping as fuck this stupid PCR test is scrapped.

Also itching for a little drive down to Bellingham here.

I'm not sure if it's available in Mexico or in WA state, but you can get a saliva naat test for $130usd and its good for returning to Canada (no one even asked to see my test when returning -_-) at least that way you don't have to get stabbed in your brain

[Traum]

Originally Posted by SumAznGuy

So you tests positive for Covid and can fly back and quarantine for 2 weeks.
What happens to the other passengers on the flight who tested negative but have to smell your farts for however long your flight is.

I'm kinda curious what the governments thoughts are on that.

That's a completely different question than what I was saying though (about every country needing to allow their own citizens / PR to return to the country).

If an airplane passenger tests positive, the airline shouldn't have allowed the passenger to board in the first place. If they are not doing that check, then it is their failure and their responsibility to the rest of the passenger on the same flight.

As an example of what I am referring to -- let's say I have test positive for COVID. If US border services let me leave the US, then as long as I can find a means to get back to the border -- be it getting hauled in via a special single person quarantine cell or driving my own car back to the border, Canada has a responsibility to let me in because my Canadian citizenship gives me the right to enter the country. CBSA / Health Canada / the Canadian military or whoever can arrest me or put me through a bunch of legal procedures from public health orders.

[Traum]

Me: You know that your chances of catching and developing severe COVID are significantly higher if you are unvaccinated, right?
UV: I am not anti-vax; I just don't trust the current vaccines.

Me: Literally over 2B people in the world have been vaccinated, with at least 1B of them using mRNA vaccines. It has proven to be extremely safe.
UV: The long term effects of these mRNA vaccines are unknown. I am not going to inject something in my body when I don't know whether there will be long term issues with them.

Me: The AstraZeneca vaccine is developed using traditional viral vector technology that has been used in tons of other vaccines.
UV: AZ has blood clotting risks!

Me: Birth control pills have much higher blood clotting risks than the AZ vaccine.

Me: What about Johnson & Johnson? BC will have a small supply of the J&J vaccine next week. It is also developed using the traditional viral vector technology.

(What do you supposed UV will say now?)

[westopher]

Probably bringing up some J&J lawsuit from 1967 they had never heard of before now.

[The Producer]

Originally Posted by Traum

Me: What about Johnson & Johnson? BC will have a small supply of the J&J vaccine next week. It is also developed using the traditional viral vector technology.

I have an acquaintance that will finally consider getting the shot if they can have the J&J

Multiple phone calls to the vaccine hotlines have resulted in no clear answers about how or when they can get one.

Does anybody have any leads on this?

I know we're only talking about one person here, but I want to do anything I can to help with this push.

[Hondaracer]

The news was saying it was going to be prioritized for health care workers who were vaccine hesitant.

Love Bonnie Henry’s “top 5 for the holidays” had 3 injections as the top 3.. lol also telling people to have small holiday gatherings with “‘maybe one other family” yea ok, no.

[The Producer]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

The news was saying it was going to be prioritized for health care workers who were vaccine hesitant.

i read that too. this person isn't a health care worker, but they do work for the public.

they're out of time - it's get something very soon, or flush a 20+ year career and pension.

there's no point in discussing the why's or why not's. It's non mRna or nothing.

It sounds like at this point we don't have an answer - which is dumb. Why bother with the announcement if there's no clear path and timeframe for adoption.

[Euro7r]

Some of you guys seem desperate to travel lol. Unless it's mandatory for work, hell no I ain't getting on a plane during this time haha.