REVscene - Vancouver Automotive Forum

Noir · 07-01-2009, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murd0c

whats so bad about looking at the current situtation as a postive aspect?

The difference of "actually" being good, and having to tell yourself that you are good.

Hondaracer is kind of like the guy who hits on a hot chick he really wants and when he doesn't get it, tells everyone he never really wanted it in the first place.

Noir · 07-01-2009, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

umm ok? signing the sedins wasn't a splash?

No its not. You're just retaining roster. I guess in your books, a splash = "OH MY GOD THE SEDINS ARE STILL CANUCKS!!!" Nice backtrack though but you missed by a mile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

if we signed gaborik for 7 million i would say that would have handcuffed the team, if we signed him for 4 million i'd say thats a good signing

see how that works?

Okay there hockey guru

Good luck signing a guy like Gabby for 70% of what you just gave the Sedins when you're already having a hard time signing your goalie at $8 mill. $7 mill if our luck pulls through.

And besides, how the hell are you going to beat the 29 other NHL teams with $4 million for Gabby.

Love how you think you've got hockey all figured out.

Hondaracer · 07-01-2009, 09:21 PM

its about convincing players to take REASONABLE deals to come to a franchise that shows it has a winning culture and to play in a city which is desirable to live in

no shit gaborik isnt coming for 4 million, that doesnt mean you react in a hasty fashion and overpay for another player

We are in a fine position to move forward and there is the rest of the summer to make additional deals to fill spots on our team

Noir · 07-01-2009, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

its about convincing players to take REASONABLE deals to come to a franchise that shows it has a winning culture and to play in a city which is desirable to live in

Canucks are the frontrunners of neither.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

no shit gaborik isnt coming for 4 million, that doesnt mean you react in a hasty fashion and overpay for another player

So the people you favour: Luongo's asking price of $8 million, Jbo's $6.5, Sedins' $6 is not an overpayment? But all the other Big Name signings are?

Why don't you just concede and acknowledge that players of such calibre will always cost in the same area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

We are in a fine position to move forward and there is the rest of the summer to make additional deals to fill spots on our team

Yeah, just like we always do. Minor tweaks here and there so the team stays relatively the same and so are the results. It's not like the fans were asking for a major overhaul and a complete firesale. But they DID need a big change, a big difference.

trancehead · 07-01-2009, 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

its about convincing players to take REASONABLE deals to come to a franchise that shows it has a winning culture and to play in a city which is desirable to live in

no shit gaborik isnt coming for 4 million, that doesnt mean you react in a hasty fashion and overpay for another player

We are in a fine position to move forward and there is the rest of the summer to make additional deals to fill spots on our team

+1

Signing the twins ultimately means we wont get that big name FA, but MG negotiated a reasonable contract...lets hope our prospects can give us that extra edge we missed last year. Go Cody fucking Hodgson

Now we're faced with whether or not we sign Sundin and/or Wellwood. Taking them in may handcuff our prospects

Ch28 · 07-01-2009, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murd0c

Tell me one bad move Gillis has made so far?

Letting go of Matty Oh that would have in all likelihood re-signed with us at the same/lower contract.

murd0c · 07-01-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ch28

Letting go of Matty Oh that would have in all likelihood re-signed with us at the same/lower contract.

the blue line needs to get younger and stronger, he let him go to get the so called puck moving D which we have been needing you can't have both.

Hondaracer · 07-01-2009, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noir

Canucks are the frontrunners of neither.

So the people you favour: Luongo's asking price of $8 million, Jbo's $6.5, Sedins' $6 is not an overpayment? But all the other Big Name signings are?

Why don't you just concede and acknowledge that players of such calibre will always cost in the same area.

Yeah, just like we always do. Minor tweaks here and there so the team stays relatively the same and so are the results. It's not like the fans were asking for a major overhaul and a complete firesale. But they DID need a big change, a big difference.

yea your right, Vancouver fuckin sucks as a city and the team is pretty much run the same as when Griffiths owned it right?

with the new ownership and with Gillis taking over the helm there is a culture shift in process trying to get to the levels of the model franchises in the league, and with the resources that Vancouver has, they have a very real possibility of achieving that goal.

And yes, point a game players getting 6 million a year IS a deal regardless of how you feel about them as players, Gaborik, Hossa, etc. dont produce the numbers the sedins do, they are not as durable as they are yet they are getting paied substantially more, for what? the "intangibles" they bring? lol

it sounds like you have more of a personal vendetta to the team than an overall view on the entire situation

sure lets have a "big change" as you would say and not be able to afford to resign the players we've put long term effort and commitment towards like Kesler, and other players coming up to the end of their deals while signing players to fill temporary spots and do less then the players weve developed could have.

pure.life · 07-01-2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ch28

Letting go of Matty Oh that would have in all likelihood re-signed with us at the same/lower contract.

Ohlie is getting old and even he himself said he needed a change.
If MG was to put an offer for him he probably would have not taken it anyways.

If you have saw some of the plays down the stretch last year... Ohlund was very vulnerable against the speed of oppositional players (Gagner and Kane for example).

I find it hard to see Ohlie as a fit in the Eastern Conference with a lot of speedy and skilled players. He's not a player that he once was. I still like him as a player (and all that he's done for the Canucks) but his skills have diminished rapidly for the past few years.

rslater · 07-01-2009, 10:03 PM

My opinion and somethign I think Noir is getting at is well is that are team is relatively the exact same as last year, minus Ohlund, plus Hodgkins, and in this position do we look like a team that will win the Stanley Cup. And while I agree their are years that are meant for rebuilding, I believe Canucks are not in this phase but rather the run for the cup phase. But do we see the team we have now, the same as last year, making it 4 rounds into the finals and wining it against a team like the Penguins? If everyone supporting Gillis feel that we can win the Stanely Cup, then fine their is no need to bash him, but to all those who don't see us in this position, then it reasonable for us to be a little upset with the situation as our team remains relatively the same.

Hondaracer · 07-01-2009, 10:08 PM

^ stereotypical nucks fan you and Noir..

the "cup phase" is the phase in which Luongo and the Sedins are signed for, that is the window you have to go for a cup

adding peices to the phase is what MG is working on, not a total rebuild roll the dice and hope things work, making it into the 2nd round of the playoffs with the core we had obviously showed MG enough potential to keep them as the core and build around them

FOR THE FUTURE

...

SumAznGuy · 07-01-2009, 10:13 PM

Based on who we have now, this is how the lines look.

Sedin, Sedin, Burrows
Demitra, Kesler, Raymond or Bernier
Raymond or Bernier, X , X
Rypien, Johnson, Hordichuk
I can see Grabner and Hodgeson getting some games in on the third/second line. It would be nice if the Nucks can hammer out a deal with Wellwood and Hansen.

Bieska, Salo
Mitchel, Edler
X , X

Do we even have NHL ready D men on the Moose?
I am going to guess Rome will be playing in Manitoba.

Luongo with Sanford as backup if they resign him. Can't see Lu playing 70+ games and only playing Schnider in 12 or so games a season.

SumAznGuy · 07-01-2009, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

^ stereotypical nucks fan you and Noir..

the "cup phase" is the phase in which Luongo and the Sedins are signed for, that is the window you have to go for a cup

adding peices to the phase is what MG is working on, not a total rebuild roll the dice and hope things work, making it into the 2nd round of the playoffs with the core we had obviously showed MG enough potential to keep them as the core and build around them

FOR THE FUTURE

...

Hondaracer has a good point. The team is really close to what it was last season, minus Ohlund and more than likely Sundin. But to give away the farm and sign a Gabby type player would be a really bad move for a bunch of reasons.
For one, what will happen next year when players like Kesler and Lu will be seeking new contracts. I can guarentee you that Kesler will be getting at least $2M a year, and maybe more. Lu is projected to get $8M a year. Even if he get's $7M, how much money will that leave the Gillis assuming the cap remains the same. If they are at $46m right now, the additional 2/3 M will reduce the cap space available to under $8M. If they signed Gabby for $7M, that only leaves $1M. Better hope they get 2 rookie contracts to fill any void.

Ch28 · 07-01-2009, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by murd0c

the blue line needs to get younger and stronger, he let him go to get the so called puck moving D which we have been needing you can't have both.

True...I love the new puck moving D that Gillis signed tod...oh...wait a minute.

goo3 · 07-01-2009, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

^ stereotypical nucks fan you and Noir..

the "cup phase" is the phase in which Luongo and the Sedins are signed for, that is the window you have to go for a cup

adding peices to the phase is what MG is working on, not a total rebuild roll the dice and hope things work, making it into the 2nd round of the playoffs with the core we had obviously showed MG enough potential to keep them as the core and build around them

FOR THE FUTURE

...

LOL, that Noir fool.. I remember him.

goo3 · 07-01-2009, 11:07 PM

The panic this year from RS members is not bad at all.

Noir · 07-01-2009, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

yea your right, Vancouver fuckin sucks as a city and the team is pretty much run the same as when Griffiths owned it right?

with the new ownership and with Gillis taking over the helm there is a culture shift in process trying to get to the levels of the model franchises in the league, and with the resources that Vancouver has, they have a very real possibility of achieving that goal.

And yes, point a game players getting 6 million a year IS a deal regardless of how you feel about them as players, Gaborik, Hossa, etc. dont produce the numbers the sedins do, they are not as durable as they are yet they are getting paied substantially more, for what? the "intangibles" they bring? lol

it sounds like you have more of a personal vendetta to the team than an overall view on the entire situation

sure lets have a "big change" as you would say and not be able to afford to resign the players we've put long term effort and commitment towards like Kesler, and other players coming up to the end of their deals while signing players to fill temporary spots and do less then the players weve developed could have.

What the fuck are you talking about???

You're the one who called for the big "Splash." Little did I know that you're "splash" meant: retaining our current players, who the Franchise already had first dibs on (and didn't have to compete with the 29 other teams), and the players themselves have already expressed interest in staying longterm.

Yes, as a fan, there's a difference between you and me. You call it devotion, I call it homerism.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

^ stereotypical nucks fan you and Noir..

the "cup phase" is the phase in which Luongo and the Sedins are signed for, that is the window you have to go for a cup

adding peices to the phase is what MG is working on, not a total rebuild roll the dice and hope things work, making it into the 2nd round of the playoffs with the core we had obviously showed MG enough potential to keep them as the core and build around them

FOR THE FUTURE

...

Unless you're putting words in people's mouths, nobody was asking for a rebuild. They were asking for an improvement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by goo3

LOL, that Noir fool.. I remember him.

Aren't you that fool that got all cocky when the Canucks swept the Blues; Thought we were the shit and we were going deep.

I wonder where your cockiness suddenly went after that.

Harvey Specter · 07-01-2009, 11:40 PM

Holy shit, relax people....this is only off season talk lol.

stuff99 · 07-01-2009, 11:44 PM

What do you think Vancouver has to give up for Phil Kessel?

carisear · 07-01-2009, 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

yea your right, Vancouver fuckin sucks as a city and the team is pretty much run the same as when Griffiths owned it right?

with the new ownership and with Gillis taking over the helm there is a culture shift in process trying to get to the levels of the model franchises in the league, and with the resources that Vancouver has, they have a very real possibility of achieving that goal.

to this day, the best canucks team EVER was when it was owned by arthur griffiths. they had the best winning 'culture' so far. which is quite sad to say, because we have still not won a cup.

so yes, vancouver is NOT a city with winning culture, nor is it a city that people are flockign to come to. constant media pressure? you want to have fans, but you don't want to have the papers slaggingy your every move.

i agree with noir. hondaracer is the type of guy who thinks every canuck move/non move is smart.

Ch28 · 07-01-2009, 11:58 PM

68style · 07-02-2009, 12:05 AM

What do you guys expect though? Barring the Sundin saga last season, I cannot remember once ever in the history of the Canucks a time when they made headlines going after a big free agent or goal scoring threat.......... Bure was a draft choice that developed... who else have we ever had that was a natural goal scorer? Mogilny? That's it!

If you want big splashy deals and sexy contracts and snipers being brought in to right the ship... go to New York and become a Rangers fan... they do it every single season... however they are also horrible, horrible disappointments every single season too.

You know what other team never, ever makes big free agent splashes (save for Hossa)??? The Red Wings... I'd rather follow their model than the Rangers.

stuff99 · 07-02-2009, 12:08 AM

MESSIER

AzNightmare · 07-02-2009, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

the future?

The only problem with this is that we're always saying the future.
When are Canucks going to make a real push for the cup by loading up?

Harvey Specter · 07-02-2009, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carisear

to this day, the best canucks team EVER was when it was owned by arthur griffiths. they had the best winning 'culture' so far. which is quite sad to say, because we have still not won a cup.

so yes, vancouver is NOT a city with winning culture, nor is it a city that people are flockign to come to. constant media pressure? you want to have fans, but you don't want to have the papers slaggingy your every move.

i agree with noir. hondaracer is the type of guy who thinks every canuck move/non move is smart.

LOL, you're telling me players refuse to come to Vancouver because of the media? EVERY Canadian hockey team has media pressure. Vancouver is nowhere near the media BS in cities like Toronto and Montreal. Any player who’s too afraid to be criticized by the media doesn’t belong here or in Canada and should go play down in Miami.

And please stop living in the past; Arthur and his family were amazing owners and it was amazing times for the Canucks but times have changed. NHL teams are no longer owned by mom and pop; owners that own the teams now don't give a shit about culture, they care about making a profit. In this day in age the players create the winning culture by winning games; owners come into the boardroom at year’s end and want to see how much the team made.