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Originally Posted by Wintgecrim
(Post 7491711)
I'd say users here and the rioters have similar motives, or drives. We excoriate someone for looting, or for destruction, and what we mean to say is that the repression of society wasn't strong enough to deter them from expressing an instinctual drive.
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Absolutely the people here and the people in the riot have the same drives. The rioters had the need to release feelings of pent up anger (deserved anger or not), and decided to do it by smashing other peoples' shit and looting from (to borrow a colloquialism) "The Man" in order to feel like they were doing something unique, expressive, deviant, &c &c.
The people in this thread have been doing the same thing--though rather than expressing their anger by trying to undermine what is to be perceived as public order and "The Man", they have been doing their best to restore it. They feel that the people who were out looting and rioting and smashing were using the gathering and circumstances as an excuse to just do shit and blame it on "the mob" (see Ms Cacnio for a perfect example). Those of us on this site and others acknowledge this to be total bullshit, which is why we have felt so eager to call these idiots out on it.
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Let's take a deeper look: Aren't the cars you polish off not only excessive, but also destructive? If clearly this is excess in that they go way beyond adequate transportation, aren't they damaging to the world around you? -(a brief example being the pictures above) The truth is that you couldn't give a rats ass whether or not your car results in a winter holocaust as long as you are feeling instinctual gratification.
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This is absolutely true. Unfortunately, this is the way society works. I am in no way saying that this is an ideal solution but what is? I look forward to this so-called "winter-holocaust" that you claim; do you mean the total destruction of winter, or the destruction of us through winter?
Many people acknowledge the truth of Global Climate Change, yet society as a whole does not; but what can a single individual do? We all face the challenge of how to make the world a better place--how about offering us some alternatives from your high horse?
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Society's regulations haven't repressed you to a degree that guilt is felt. Still, aside from society, and I mean truth and lies in a non-moral sense (real honesty), the fact is that you are damaging as much as a rioter. You will retort that the rioters are some sort of evil monster anarchists, simply because your values derived from society don't have to be in touch with anything other than fads and trends
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I wasn't aware the guilt required repression. In fact, most people who are repressed do not acknowledge that what is repressed should, in fact, create guilt because they often did not have the opportunity to form a moral compass around the activity.
In some ways, absolutely "mobs" like this one are as damaging as rioters. While some people have had buildings and livelihoods destroyed, so too have rioters had their future or potential livelihoods destroyed. Such is the way of things. Some are caught, some are not, and life goes on.
By claiming that our beliefs come simply from fads and trends is as much an oversimplification as people who claim the rioters were all just anarchists. I don't for one moment believe that Jason, Camille, Nathan or any of the other rioters were Anarchists--mostly because they simply had not gone through enough hardship to want the destruction of the system (typically what would be necessary for the formation of such an anarchic thought system). If you want to make your point, it would be best to acknowledge that nothing is a universal truth as far as peoples' opinions and motivations.
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I don't simply think the rioters are ignorant, I think this whole forum, and further: our whole culture is.
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I believe the quote describing Anonymous is best for this kind of situation "None of us is as stupid as all of us". Though if you wish to combat ignorance, calling people stupid is probably not the most effective way.
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Originally Posted by CorneringArtist
(Post 7491732)
What's with the sudden bullshit leftism being spouted? Since when was personal excess EVER a part of the equation? What gives a person the right to come out of nowhere, and bash the basis of the forum while grouping us in with the rioters? We have done NOTHING wrong outside of finding out who was responsible for looting and destruction of property.
I motion for ban not because of extreme eco-leftism, but because of straight stupidity.
tl;dr: leftist needs to GTFO.
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Please please please don't call him leftist. I'm a leftist. I believe in socialism and equity for all; though not necessarily equality, but that's 'cause I'm kind of a red tory leftist...it's complicated. As it is with all people. This guy is an idealist who seems not to care that his concept(s) are completely impracticable.
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Originally Posted by Wintgecrim
(Post 7491757)
The only thing that any of you have demonstrated is that you're full of excuses, and pretty stupid. You've accomplished sidestepping my accusations by childlike retorts. Bravo!
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Now, do I sound like I am into hockey or anarchism? Probably not. However, I do find it hilarious how a bunch of apes actually pay millions to see a bunch of grown men pass a ball around. It takes more integrity to wash dishes.
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Hockey, absolutely not. Anarchism...not really. I wouldn't call myself an ape (much too much of a pinner), and I do enjoy watching skilled individuals do something I could never do. Just as I pay people to do skilled jobs I am incapable of doing, why would I not pay people who are highly skilled to do something fun to watch? Nothing wrong with that.
Integrity, I think, is the wrong word as far as washing dishes. Integrity relates to one's moral codes and ethics. Doesn't take integrity to wash dishes. Just a nagging girlfriend, or a stinky kitchen.
[/quote]Most activities result in entropy. Actually spending time souping up a 'sports car' is not simply destructive, it's pure gluttony.[/quote]
Gluttony is relative, no? I feel guilty if there are leftovers at a restaurant and nobody takes them home--I don't like wasting food. Others would say that paying someone else to cook (do something I can do) is a perfect example of wasteful gluttony. No doubt people starving in third-world countries would consider eating until one is so full you couldn't move to be gluttony, yet many people do this quite often (AYCE sushi much?).
I assume when you refer to Entropy, you refer to the chaos left when order is gone, and not the thermal energy created when other types of energy are? If so, everything results in chaos eventually. All forms of order fall and introduce some level of chaos which will in turn create a new form of order. This is the natural cycle of life and death and all that jazz. If this is something new to you, I wonder where you have been educated and for how long.
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Anyways. Waste of time. Bye.
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Not at all a waste of time for me, I enjoy trolls; you are ever so entertaining.
