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View Poll Results: Are you in favour of extinguishing the HST in BC?
Yes: Bring Back GST + PST @ 12% 186 42.18%
No: HST to decrease to 10% over 3 years (10% in 2014) 255 57.82%
Voters: 441. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-08-2011, 11:50 PM   #26
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say for a new home buyer, which of the options is the better of the two evils?
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Old 07-08-2011, 11:51 PM   #27
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Where is the option to extinguish pst all together?
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:08 AM   #28
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Nope. Let's be real. Taxes are needed to pay for all the cool stuff we have. Plus, it's simpler to understand.
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:23 AM   #29
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I sent in my ballot. Keep the HST.
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Old 07-09-2011, 09:42 AM   #30
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I wonder how good of a sample RS will be for what BC'ers think ....
it's a close one ..

The one thing that grinds my gears about hst, is the trickle down effect. I know it will not happen - BC Liquor board perfect example. There are way too many monopolies/oligopolies in BC.

To the people that think competition will give us increased sales and discounts on goods. Think about it this way for a second. You are Superstore and have 30% of the marketshare. Safeway also has 30%, IGA also has 30% and mom and pop shops have 10%. Are you really concerned about the mom and pop shops? No; because you receive a larger volume discount and can compete on price any day of the week. Are you really going to pass up the savings from HST to the consumer to gain maybe 1-2% of market share from Safeway and or IGA? I think not. Why not keep the savings for yourself, so ALL three of the powerhouses increase their level of profits? This is very similar to how Coke and Pepsi conduct business. It's very cartel like. Maintain 30% of marketshare in BC , while having increased profits. It's a WIN-WIN for Superstore and other large grocers.

This is my understanding. If someone wants to correct me - i'm all ears
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:02 AM   #31
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As a small business owner, HST is a good thing for me and my business. Not only does it give me the ability to write the full HST amount off on business inputs that I could only previously write GST off on, but the process of bookkeeping and remitting is MUCH easier with one single tax than two taxes administered by two separate agencies with different methods. I can think about how much work we went through to transition to HST, and I can only imagine how it would be in a LARGE company with a complicated billing structure - the internal costs to return to GST/PST accounting would be absolutely ludicrous.

On a personal level, maybe I'm not that sensitive, but I dont really feel that I pay that much more, or at least it hasnt made a difference in my spending habits and consumption requirements. I would be a big fan of 10% HST simply because it makes calculating tax that much easier - I love round numbers!

I voted to keep HST.
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:07 AM   #32
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I think the whole thing has been so mismanaged, its unbelievable.

I have no idea what to think regarding the next provincial election. The liberals need some time off-10 years seems to be a party's max before they get stupid, and unfortunately, I don't want the NDP back at the helm. I don't like their policies.

Oh sure, the tax structure will change, and the poor will rejoice, I'm sure the hospitals will improve and such, but at the end of the day, they won't be able to afford it.

And so we will not be able to afford it.

Anyone know off hand where Falcon says the previous exemptions won't be back under the PST system? That's information some people should know before voting, yeah?
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:51 AM   #33
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If the move to HST included all the previous PST exemptions, I don't think anybody would have complained. All of the business efficiency costs would still be realized. But then there would have been no additional tax income generated, which the BC government will never admit, but is one of the big reasons of the switch to HST.

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To the people that think competition will give us increased sales and discounts on goods. Think about it this way for a second. You are Superstore and have 30% of the marketshare. Safeway also has 30%, IGA also has 30% and mom and pop shops have 10%. Are you really concerned about the mom and pop shops? No; because you receive a larger volume discount and can compete on price any day of the week. Are you really going to pass up the savings from HST to the consumer to gain maybe 1-2% of market share from Safeway and or IGA? I think not. Why not keep the savings for yourself, so ALL three of the powerhouses increase their level of profits? This is very similar to how Coke and Pepsi conduct business. It's very cartel like. Maintain 30% of marketshare in BC , while having increased profits. It's a WIN-WIN for Superstore and other large grocers.
This is the exact way I see things as well too, why I am so pessimistic about HST saving consumers money in the long term.

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As a small business owner, HST is a good thing for me and my business. Not only does it give me the ability to write the full HST amount off on business inputs that I could only previously write GST off on, but the process of bookkeeping and remitting is MUCH easier with one single tax than two taxes administered by two separate agencies with different methods.
I fully understand and appreciate the simplicity that HST brings, and its benefit to business owners. That is why I don't think abolishing HST is the way to go.

On a personal level, lowering the HST to 10% is on the road to offsetting the increases I am paying due to less tax exempted items/services. I know I am still paying more at the end of the day with HST, but am ok knowing that it helps business run more efficiently and may help with our economy. Just don't tell me that I'm going to be saving money with HST though.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:05 AM   #34
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As a small business owner, HST is a good thing for me and my business. Not only does it give me the ability to write the full HST amount off on business inputs that I could only previously write GST off on, but the process of bookkeeping and remitting is MUCH easier with one single tax than two taxes administered by two separate agencies with different methods. I can think about how much work we went through to transition to HST, and I can only imagine how it would be in a LARGE company with a complicated billing structure - the internal costs to return to GST/PST accounting would be absolutely ludicrous.
As an accountant for a medium sized business (10+ million in annual sales), the book keeping process for GST and PST was not very complicated. From a bookkeeping perspective, GST&PST required two reports to run from the accounting software, whereas HST only requires one. Having an organized accounting system, will at most, save you 15-20mins by using HST. For us to return to GST & PST would be as simple as selecting GP instead of H2/3/5 for the tax code. It's all about how your system is setup. Larger the corporation, better the systems, easier the transition.

With that being said, I agree with you on the fact that business do get the extra ITC's; however, as a business owner, did you pass on the savings to your customers by the way of decreased prices? My company did not and neither did any of our suppliers.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:18 AM   #35
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fuck HST. and if it gets "extinguished" they better get rid of the SST as well. I am tired of paying 12% on used cars bought from Private Parties
this...I hope they really bring back the exemptions. Double-dipping taxes on 2nd hand item is FULL OF SHIT.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:35 AM   #36
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With that being said, I agree with you on the fact that business do get the extra ITC's; however, as a business owner, did you pass on the savings to your customers by the way of decreased prices? My company did not and neither did any of our suppliers.
Are you telling me, that if the average company always tried to keep a profit margin of 25% (just as an example), but now with HST, they have a profit margin of 27%, - are they ALWAYS going to stay at that new margin regardless?

Or maybe for some businesses - the extra 2% profit margin means they can hire one more person - or expand their business. HST isn't always just about the final $$ amount to the consumer - it's about an overall healthier economy which is beneficial to everyone.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:39 AM   #37
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If you own a business, would you pass the savings to the consumer? i think consumers would be on the bottom of their priority list.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:48 AM   #38
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Are you telling me, that if the average company always tried to keep a profit margin of 25% (just as an example), but now with HST, they have a profit margin of 27%, - are they ALWAYS going to stay at that new margin regardless?

Or maybe for some businesses - the extra 2% profit margin means they can hire one more person - or expand their business. HST isn't always just about the final $$ amount to the consumer - it's about an overall healthier economy which is beneficial to everyone.
What is marketed to the voting public is that the extra things we pay additional tax on NOW, will come back in the FUTURE as a cost reduction and actually save consumers money, but it will take time for this to materialize. I don't buy this at all, neither do many people. It is also marketed that it will help streamline business operations, help job creation, etc etc...

I agree that HST will help the economy in the big picture, and that everyone will eventually benefit from it but do not believe at the end of the day it will be saving the consumer any money. But the taglines used to sell and push onto the general public is pure marketting BS.
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Old 07-09-2011, 01:13 PM   #39
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yes, i bought 3 cars since hst, all privately.

the extra tax cost me an extra 4k
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Old 07-09-2011, 01:14 PM   #40
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Are you telling me, that if the average company always tried to keep a profit margin of 25% (just as an example), but now with HST, they have a profit margin of 27%, - are they ALWAYS going to stay at that new margin regardless?

Or maybe for some businesses - the extra 2% profit margin means they can hire one more person - or expand their business. HST isn't always just about the final $$ amount to the consumer - it's about an overall healthier economy which is beneficial to everyone.
One thing the recession has proved is you can get same amount of output with the same or lesser amount of labor. So I doubt the average company will be looking to hire staff from the extra profits.

If the company is in expansion mode, they will need a hell of a lot more than the profit generated from HST to expand.

I believe the HST and its benefits in theory, but I will only believe the practical side when it's happening. It's been 1 year since the HST was implemented, I have seen nothing but cost increases. That is 4 quarter of ITC's for companies to pass down to customers. Even lets say each Q, there is 7k in extra ITC because of the HST, that should equal out at least a cent or two drop. The HST impact on fuel alone is enough to kill any savings that can be passed down to the consumer...

Again this is how I see it. Feel free to disagree .
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:01 PM   #41
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The only way to achieve "savings" from HST is a cascade drop in the taxation of inputs.

Those with a financial background, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Businesses everywhere, under the old system, were in theory paying PST and ultimately passing through this cost to the final customer, although in an indirect manner.

So for these mysterious "savings" to show up as reduced pricing, you would have to have multiple levels of inputs, all being taxed PST, so therefore there are several steps of PST that can be eliminated by moving from a regressive to a progressive tax policy.

That implies several levels of inputs, all originating in BC for savings to be found.
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:19 PM   #42
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Again this is how I see it. Feel free to disagree .
We can argue all we want about "what ifs", but I guess we can never predict what each business would actually do. So are you going to vote yes then?
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Old 07-10-2011, 02:17 AM   #43
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43% want GSP+PST back. So why is that better than choosing HST that goes down to 10% over the next few years?
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:04 AM   #44
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Just because the government has promised to lower the HST to 10%, it doesn't mean that they won't change it back to 12% the next day. Or raise the carbon tax by 2%.

I'm voting to extinguish the HST because I want to go back to when I only had to pay GST on some items, not 12% on everything i buy.
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:34 AM   #45
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In theory, HST would be better...but realistically it's unlikely the benefits businesses receive will trickle down to the average consumer.
communism works in theory as well. HST is a cash grab plain and simple. now the government is making it seem like the people are the bad guys trying to get rid of the HST. saying things like it will cost us more in the end and so on... The only reason it will cost us more is because the government brought in the HST without ever getting a public opinion about it. if this was to happen in europe, entire cities would shut down in protest... but here in Canada, we just bend over and take it...
You do know that most of Europe uses a VAT which is similar to our HST, right? You wouldn't just be talking out your ass right?
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:37 AM   #46
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Just because the government has promised to lower the HST to 10%, it doesn't mean that they won't change it back to 12% the next day.
This. I don't know the specifics of the HST bill, but if isn't legislated that the HST will drop if it stays, what makes me think that the government won't drop the HST down to 10%? Like the BC Liberals have proved, they can promise to do something/not do something and go back on their word.
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:42 AM   #47
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Yes, because getting rid of the HST means that you'll pay less taxes... *cough cough*.

The government will ALWAYS find a way to raise more money. They can do this through a myriad of ways such as raising transit prices, environmental taxes, income taxes, etc.

Getting rid of the HST will creates more headaches than it solves, since the government will have to do tons of paperwork and backtracking.
Agreed. Getting rid of the HST will cost us money that will have to be made up somehow. I fully expect income tax to raise to make up the difference.

If income tax goes up it means we all pay more, while the HST means only those who spend are taxed. As a saver, I am for punishing spenders, if they can afford to buy something, they can afford to pay thier fair share of tax.
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Old 07-10-2011, 08:51 AM   #48
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I wonder how good of a sample RS will be for what BC'ers think ....
it's a close one ..

The one thing that grinds my gears about hst, is the trickle down effect. I know it will not happen - BC Liquor board perfect example. There are way too many monopolies/oligopolies in BC.
We are already seeing a trickle down effect in booze prices. Look around, have you noticed how many restaurants have drink specials? Or that some of the big beer companies have reduced their prices, labatt for instance is cheaper at liquor stores and cold beer and wine stores.

Its cause consumers are tapped out, and now that we have to pay more tax to eat out, we're not eating out as much, so prices have to come down to bring us back. I think its awesome, and want to see it continue.

Now before some asshat says we're punishing restaurants, the restaurant industry has expanded more than any other industry in the last decade, so I don't feel bad if a few suffer and lower prices or close.
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Old 07-10-2011, 09:20 AM   #49
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You do know that most of Europe uses a VAT which is similar to our HST, right? You wouldn't just be talking out your ass right?
Not to mention ontario and the atlantic provinces and other major countries in the world have HST or something similar.
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Old 07-10-2011, 09:28 AM   #50
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I have not seen one lawn sign, etc. in support of keeping the HST.

My fear is that people will vote "Yes" simply out of their hate for the Liberal government. I voted "No", but I think the "Yes" side will win. Like taylor192, I think us middle-income earners (e.g. people who make 35-80K/year) will be paying higher income taxes. But who gives a shit about that when I save a few bucks on my meal at "Chain restaurant-X" or when I get my hair did?

Consumption taxes FTW. At least you can choose to consume.
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