Vancouver's Real Estate Market

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by noclue

obviously he's referring to seniors with $3M+ houses taking low income programs. We all deride rich mainlanders living in west vancouver with ferraris doing the same thing but why not seniors?

The number of low income retirees who own a $3m home is vanishing small - there just aren't enough $3m homes (ha) around for this to be more than a thousand people.

If you read through his comments he's blanket condemning low income retirees who own detached homes and he's not saying $3m as a cutoff but as a way to make these low income retirees seem richer than they are and to make his statement that they are leeches and losers seem valid. He describes them as living in filth and bugs and claims that the vast majority of them can't walk up the stairs of their homes (how does he know this?!)

He's not saying $3m as a socialist "tax the rich" statement but as a way to talk down about people who he thinks are losers who are taking advantage of the system - this is pretty much par for the course for him for anyone he doesn't like (everyone who isn't him).

[Hondaracer]

Ok.. 2 million..

Ok.. 1.5 million

Now add OAS and CPP, you’re wealthy compared to the general population, period.

https://financialpost.com/wealth/can...20%24788%2C619.

If you’re retired with a paid off home in the lower mainland, your net worth is above average across the entire country.

Outside of the lower end portions of the east side where are detached homes consistently less than 1.5? Large parts of Surrey you can’t even get a detached for under 1.3xx

Love you’re getting triggered by the loser comments. Imagine what a fucking state these people would be in if they didn’t hit a winfall in their homes. Not even your boy Carney could dig them out of that hole.

In regards to the comments from Evo about flipping houses, I think that time has largely ended. There’s no way to make money on a flip any longer. Your carrying costs, labour and materials are prohibitive in turning a profit. In my hood I’d say around 1/4 of the homes that have been sold in the last 3 years or so have been torn down and added units. In reality it’s probably less than 1/4 but I’d give it a ballpark figure around there. Every single one torn down has been turned into a minimum duplex, if not duplex + laneway.

[JDMDreams]

I wonder how much of the housing supply here is bought by REITs or corps. Like you know how the black stone black rock CEO lady that got shot but no one talked about it.

[Gerbs]

Majority of detached in all of Squamish, Richmond, Coqutilam, N.Van, Langley are all $1.4-3M+ too

[Scotsman]

Originally Posted by PeanutButter

lol call the city man. You're going to have an entire family living there right next to you. That's going to cause issues for sure. Parking, noise, random crap. They'll probably park in the back alley.

If your neighbour is willing to do this without permits then he ain't gonna care if his future tenants are assholes to the neighbours.

It's also when they have friends over. They'll park in front of your garage because it's closer and more convenient for THEM. They figure that they'll be right by their car so they can move it if needed.

However it's not convenient for you when you have to come home or go out. Ask me how I know

Calling the City won't change the future tenant's behaviour but the City may be pissed with them enough to never issue a permit for the basement so less tenants. Win for you!

[Jason00S2000]

The only place I would want to live in all of Vancouver would be in a full house that is right across the street from Queen Elizabeth Park.

I grew up right around there as a kid and QE park has got to be my favourite place to chill out, ride a bike, go for a walk, play tennis...

The OLD fountain / boardwalk they had at the top was SO damn cool and relaxing... then they butchered that shit and last time I went there was basically no flowing water and no cool wooden walkway that allowed you to traverse all of the different fountains and ponds.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Ok.. 2 million..

Ok.. 1.5 million

Now add OAS and CPP, you’re wealthy compared to the general population, period.

https://financialpost.com/wealth/can...20%24788%2C619.

If you’re retired with a paid off home in the lower mainland, your net worth is above average across the entire country.

Outside of the lower end portions of the east side where are detached homes consistently less than 1.5? Large parts of Surrey you can’t even get a detached for under 1.3xx

What's your point? I already noted that their net worth is above average (per stats can the median net worth of a senior is ~$800k). I also noted that there are only 60k detached homes in the Vancouver/Burnaby so the number of these low income retirees living in these homes is going to be really small even if you expand it out to all cities.

Your argument has been that b/c they worked low paying jobs and lucked into the housing market that they should be punished and made to pay for social services that the rest of society gets for free. You called them losers and leeches for being lucky. You described them as living in filth and bugs b/c they are low income.

There's no need to punch down on these people for being lucky or for working a low income job for 40 years - you're just being the asshole that you always are talking shit about regular people whether they are teachers, arts grads, public sector workers, immigrants, or low wage workers. Is there any class of worker that you actually respect or is it just yourself? Do you just see everyone else in society as stealing from you?

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Love you’re getting triggered by the loser comments. Imagine what a fucking state these people would be in if they didn’t hit a winfall in their homes. Not even your boy Carney could dig them out of that hole.

None of the examples cited showed that these people were in need of a handout - they aren't even touching the equity in their homes so whether they have a windfall or not isn't relevant. If they had a $500k home they'd still be low income and living off their CPP/OAS.

[Hondaracer]

very simple question

Should someone who has a 2 million dollar net worth be qualified as low income

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

very simple question

Should someone who has a 2 million dollar net worth be qualified as low income

Income is cashflow and not net worth. Those are two completely different things.

[noclue]

So a laid off senior lumber mill worker in prince george whose house is worth $200k, wonder what he thinks about the poor seniors in east van with $2M home.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

Income is cashflow and not net worth. Those are two completely different things.

I’ve got a million dollar gold nugget in my pocket but all my meals come from the food bank.

It doesn’t make sense.

These aren’t even unrealized gains as you’d get through investments or even a pension. You’re literally living inside a VERY valuable bank account.

You see it all the time to an even greater degree with these “home makers” living in Shaunessy. There are no checks and balances when it comes to net worth. Everything is based on income.

So if a 2 million dollar home isn’t enough to sustain a lifestyle, is the 10 million dollar net worth then “enough” ? lol

[RevYouUp]

I’mma stash $20m in my BTC cold wallet and claim low income to get benefits when I’m older.

[westopher]

I gotta say, I think all of us have floated the idea of a net worth tax being much more effective than an income tax, so besides a few poor choice words, Honda really shouldn’t be getting the pushback he is against this.
Absolutely the guy with a 3 million net worth should be getting taxed more than the guy who’s on his first year of a 6 figure job who’s struggling to save for his first down payment due to cost of living.

[Badhobz]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

very simple question

Should someone who has a 2 million dollar net worth be qualified as low income

Fuck that. When I’m 65 I’m going to give all my shit to my wife and then go collect oas gis cpp and milk back all the useless taxes I’ve paid for idiot children and sickos.

Oh wait I got a lousy pension.

[PeanutButter]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

Fuck that. When I’m 65 I’m going to give all my shit to my wife and then go collect oas gis cpp and milk back all the useless taxes I’ve paid for idiot children and sickos.

Oh wait I got a lousy pension.

Don't you have to be separated for this to work?

Unless that's your plan all a long... hobz playing the long game.

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by snowball

That's a huge job to try to get away with doing without permits lol. Gutsy.

I'm curious, how would the city even find out if you did such a project without a permit?

Is it common for neighbors to rat a person out, or would it be the contractor? If so, how would they even know it wasn't approved?

Always wondered how some of these guys end up getting caught.

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

Leave the PNE mo's and gon gons alone ... they've worked hard.

You really are the most Asian white guy I've seen.

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by westopher

I gotta say, I think all of us have floated the idea of a net worth tax being much more effective than an income tax, so besides a few poor choice words, Honda really shouldn’t be getting the pushback he is against this.
Absolutely the guy with a 3 million net worth should be getting taxed more than the guy who’s on his first year of a 6 figure job who’s struggling to save for his first down payment due to cost of living.

So hypothetically, in a scenario where a small 2 bed condo is worth 1.2m and you cannot realistically downsize anymore, what would you do? You are sitting on a gold mine of net worth. It's a slippery slope argument that cannot be made in good faith.

Hence why I previously said, if a retiree has sat on their property for 20 years, just leave them alone. They have not benefitted from the boom. Just because your idea of an ideal retirement lifestyle is a small condo and a sports car + some traveling, some one else's ideal lifestyle may be to not travel, they don't want a sports car, they just want to have the kids over for dinner twice a week and having the space to do so.

If they are deferring their taxes, they have not lost the ability to live in that space.

The argument that those houses should be redeveloped also does not stand as my previous anecdote of these houses just continuing to be flipped on the market and does not add to the housing pool. Nor realistically rebuilding these in duplexes make a ton of sense as you are just shifting housing availability from one affordability spectrum to another, and you risk turning the city to something what was previously said about Penticton, where the working class gets priced out.

Are we at an impasse in terms of housing? Yeah I'd say so, unless the city does something drastic. $400k shoeboxes aren't it.

HK did it right back in the colonial days with different tiered housing, but they also have the infrastructure to backup adding new neighbourhoods. I can't pretend to understand how well it stacks up in the long term and why the policies weren't continued into the 2000s.

Again chicken and egg scenario and the province and the munis need to put in the infrastructure and putting in the money and bylaws to make those changes. Simply crying about seniors and their houses isn't going to change anything.

[Gumby]

Originally Posted by Scotsman

If your neighbour is willing to do this without permits then he ain't gonna care if his future tenants are assholes to the neighbours.

It's also when they have friends over. They'll park in front of your garage because it's closer and more convenient for THEM. They figure that they'll be right by their car so they can move it if needed.

However it's not convenient for you when you have to come home or go out. Ask me how I know

Calling the City won't change the future tenant's behaviour but the City may be pissed with them enough to never issue a permit for the basement so less tenants. Win for you!

Having a permit or not won't stop some people from doing it illegally regardless... The new landlord did give me his contact info so I can reach him if necessary. And yes, I have had my garage blocked before!

Originally Posted by mikemhg

I'm curious, how would the city even find out if you did such a project without a permit?

Is it common for neighbors to rat a person out, or would it be the contractor? If so, how would they even know it wasn't approved?

Always wondered how some of these guys end up getting caught.

Nosy neighbours (especially if you are constantly feuding with one), if you piss someone off, etc.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

So hypothetically, in a scenario where a small 2 bed condo is worth 1.2m and you cannot realistically downsize anymore, what would you do? You are sitting on a gold mine of net worth. It's a slippery slope argument that cannot be made in good faith.

Hence why I previously said, if a retiree has sat on their property for 20 years, just leave them alone. They have not benefitted from the boom. Just because your idea of an ideal retirement lifestyle is a small condo and a sports car + some traveling, some one else's ideal lifestyle may be to not travel, they don't want a sports car, they just want to have the kids over for dinner twice a week and having the space to do so.

If they are deferring their taxes, they have not lost the ability to live in that space.

The argument that those houses should be redeveloped also does not stand as my previous anecdote of these houses just continuing to be flipped on the market and does not add to the housing pool. Nor realistically rebuilding these in duplexes make a ton of sense as you are just shifting housing availability from one affordability spectrum to another, and you risk turning the city to something what was previously said about Penticton, where the working class gets priced out.

Are we at an impasse in terms of housing? Yeah I'd say so, unless the city does something drastic. $400k shoeboxes aren't it.

HK did it right back in the colonial days with different tiered housing, but they also have the infrastructure to backup adding new neighbourhoods. I can't pretend to understand how well it stacks up in the long term and why the policies weren't continued into the 2000s.

Again chicken and egg scenario and the province and the munis need to put in the infrastructure and putting in the money and bylaws to make those changes. Simply crying about seniors and their houses isn't going to change anything.

I mean, pick a number. 2 million? 3 million? I’m saying it shouldn’t apply to someone who can’t downsize any further. We come up with numbers all the time for things. The speed limit on the average road is 50. There’s an equation behind this. Someone can just as easily find the formula that makes reasonable sense. Median SFH is what, 2.1 million in Vancouver? Make the tax by jurisdiction based on levels above the median. 2.2 barely anything. 3 million, a lot more. 5 million? A whole lot more.
Again we have talked about wealth tax seriously for a decade. It should be a thing, but we have people in Shaunessy mansions worth 10 million getting low income benefits.
I’m using extreme examples, but maybe that’s just where we need to start. Hell even 4 million and up would be something that would have a positive effect and literally not affect anyone who’s “struggling”
Anytime the “slippery slope” argument is used I’d say that’s not in good faith. Everything can be argued against by that logic and we can just never do anything new until the end of time because somewhere down the line it’s deemed too much.

[bcrdukes]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

You really are the most Asian white guy I've seen.

I have an award ready for whitev70r should he decide to come to the Stock and Noob Meet.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by westopher

I gotta say, I think all of us have floated the idea of a net worth tax being much more effective than an income tax, so besides a few poor choice words, Honda really shouldn’t be getting the pushback he is against this.

Absolutely the guy with a 3 million net worth should be getting taxed more than the guy who’s on his first year of a 6 figure job who’s struggling to save for his first down payment due to cost of living.

I'm pretty pro wealth tax (and I'm on record here saying that we should change how we tax real estate to encourage people to change homes/downsize by getting rid of the PPT and raising property taxes amongst other things AND I think guys like me should pay more taxes) but the wealth tax as usually proposed doesn't address this particular problem because of two things: 1) Most proposals start at $10m of wealth (it's actually not net worth - it's just plain assets) (https://bcpolicy.ca/2025/06/04/wealth-tax/) and 2) All gains from principal residences are tax exempt.

Lowering the wealth tax threshold to something that affects the demo we're talking about (owners of a $2m home) would likely capture hundreds of thousands of people, many of whom having $2m of savings is part of their retirement plan ($1m generates $40-50k/yr in retirement). It would have pretty dramatic effects on how people plan for retirement and even cause shifts in how people choose jobs (work pensions would not be hit by this even if the value of it exceeds $2m - eg. Your pension pays out $100k/yr but isn't considered under the wealth tax).

I've very against killing the principal residence tax exemption even though it means some pretty big tax free gains for boomers who bought 30-40 years ago and have hit a windfall because of how much I think mobility is protected - people need to have minimal friction to move and if they have to pay cap gains on the sale of their home we'd likely see a huge increase in friction for changing jobs, moving to another city etc. It'd likely be really, really detrimental to the economy - people wouldn't take jobs in another city b/c they can't afford to pay the tax on selling their home. You may even see people choose not to start families b/c they can't afford the cost to upgrade. Maybe you could have a sliding scale for more expensive homes (say $10m) - those people could afford a small tax on the sale.

For example, if I had to sell my house in order to take a job in Toronto and there's no exemption I'd have to pay around $125k in taxes. I would either force employer to pay it or I'd not take the job. And when I moved from my last house to this current house I would have been on the hook for $100k in taxes (on top of the ~$200k I paid in GST and PPT).

I'm pushing back on Honda not for a poor choice of words - he's being an asshole and picking on people who did nothing wrong and proposing that we target them because they not only got lucky but because they didn't pay enough taxes when they worked to "deserve" that luck. You're poor and you got lucky? Well fuck you - here's an extra tax that no one else has to pay.

Is it THAT hard to be a decent human being? Like is it that hard to just say, "We should tax people who have a lot of equity in their home more" and leave out the part where you call the low income ones leeches and losers and say their homes are filthy and full of bugs?

We're a nation of immigrants - many of whom gave up good careers to give their kids a better life - they took on shitty low paying jobs so their kids could have something better. That something better includes their kids paying a lot of taxes.

[GS8]

Originally Posted by whitev70r

If you can't tell the difference in terms of critiquing between a Mainlander who just immigrated here, in a $3M home, claiming no personal wealth or asset, living off Canadian benefits vs. a senior who has been here working for 30-40+ years, paying taxes, and CPP and now claiming some seniors benefit from Cdn government ... then you must have noclue about life.

For the record:

The former category here is the exact type of immigrants that Canadians hate in 2025, despite these observations being made for decade. They turned housing into an absolute joke.

But white, middle aged, Ford Explorer ST driving, Costco Pinot-Grigio smashing Joy Luck Neveahs & Brendas will tell us they're the same as the people who immigrated here half a century ago when Canada's immigration system was literally the envy of the world.

Just have another Tim's donut, Brenda and make sure to pivot before you walk through a doorway.

/rabble

[CivicBlues]

Are Mainlanders still immigrating here? I'm pretty sure the immigrants that Canadians hate in 2025 are from a different country altogether now that rhymes with Mindy-ah.

Going after seniors for "unearned" home equity is literally Trumpism 101. Nevermind speculators, house flippers, and corporate landlords...let's go after Ah Bak living in his East Van crackshack who don't speak English good and has one foot in the grave. Easy target!

[6793026]

I don't know if they are immigrating but their kids are sure still here for school.

Was standing in front of 4 university kids at TNT shopping for groceries and clearly they are house mates. Not shaming them. They were wearing Balenciaga t shirts (500-800), jeans (coiuldn't tell), Dior shoes (\$1000) Girls were the same in Balenciaga crocs (750) + dior bag (3k) YSL bags (2k)...

Just a reminder i'm not in that demographics, I'm just not coming from that standard of wealth - i always wonder where they go after school? DO they stay, do they possibly stand here for another 15 yrs "experiencing life" working a retail job while driving a lambo to work (yes my friend saw that once).

It's crazy to see their normal clothes being $5k