Main 911 hero tells what really happened that day

[Excelsis]

Different people need various evidence for something to be proved. Others no matter how much you try to explain they don't want to change
Posted via RS Mobile

[Graeme S]

Originally Posted by Alpha v2

Different people need various evidence for something to be proved. Others no matter how much you try to explain they don't want to change
Posted via RS Mobile

The obliviousness of posts like these continue to astound me.

[Ronin]

Right, so one side cites reason and science. The other makes wild claims and offers no evidence or reasoning beyond "Well, we think this happened.", "eyewitnesses" an Rosie O'Donnell.

Makes sense.
Posted via RS Mobile

[Excelsis]

you're not going to change your viewpoint because you don't believe the government will do such a thing, because everything they do shall be respected, everything on the media is as it is, and so on.

[radioman]

Charles most of your claims have been answered by others but you like to think they're ignoring them. You have yet to reply to some of their questions. I'm going to disregard those previous questions of your as I feel there are sufficient answers from the naysayers.

I'd really like to think that such a powerful government/group could pull off a perfect terror attack when they have an exceptionally large amount of prep time without these mistakes that you find.

Why don't we take a look at what the US government could have done.

Cruise missile hit the pentagon? Do you really think they would use something as obvious as a cruise missile instead of an actual air plane? If this is an inside job we're not talking about men in huts planning an attack. These would be the brightest minds in the world I'm almost certain there wouldn't be any simple mistakes in their plan. The chances of there being eye witness to a plan hitting the tower would be extremely likely they would never have taken a risk like that. It's just a wild accusation.

If they wanted tower 7 down I don't see why they wouldn't have strapped some explosives in the base like they did when there was an earlier attack on WTC (1993 truck bomb). Could easily say it was another attack and that everyone would be distracted with the planes hitting the twin towers.

You pointed out the 9/11 in terminator I believe. So that was back in 1991? They had 10 years (or more) to plan this attack.

[Graeme S]

Originally Posted by Alpha v2

you're not going to change your viewpoint because you don't believe the government will do such a thing, because everything they do shall be respected, everything on the media is as it is, and so on.

Actually, no. Let me give you an analogy.


When I was a kid, I went to church. I went to the bible classes and learned about god and all that jazz. My dad and his family were strong believers, and my mom said I should go even though she didn't believe just 'cause The Bible is an important book in western literature. As I got older, I started asking questions: things that the people who were guiding me either couldn't or wouldn't answer (sidenote: it was then that I realized that a lot of people go to church for the community more than the faith, and also that I was more skeptical than most).

Fast forward quite a bit, and one of my best friends now is an incredibly faithful convert. He and I now have some fantastic debates on the existence or lack thereof of God; and therein, the amount of truth contained within The Bible. It's very interesting, and some of the people who've been around us as we've been debating have been a wee mite shocked and thought we were arguing.

Now, the reason I enjoy our debates is not because I think I can convince him; "none so zealous as a convert", as they say. No, the reason I enjoy the debates with him and other religious people is simply because I long to be convinced. I want to believe in a God. I've seen the strength of will it lends otherwise weak and potentially useless people. And yes, I realize the power it can wield in a negative way in order to hurt and harm and yadda yadda. Whatever.

The point is when I ask questions it's not because I want to convince you you're wrong, it's because I want you to convince me that you're right. I don't believe everything the media says, and I don't believe that what's done by the government is always in our best interests. Politicians these days don't lead, they just work as hard as possible to not get overthrown. The preponderance of evidence says that the current story about the fall of the towers is exactly as it happened: planes hit them, they fell. Debris came off and hit WTC 7.

I am perfectly willing to listen to alternate explanations, but when those alternate explanations have more holes in them than the official ones, you should understand that I'm not likely to believe those alternatives.

[dangonay]

Originally Posted by Alpha v2

you're not going to change your viewpoint because you don't believe the government will do such a thing, because everything they do shall be respected, everything on the media is as it is, and so on.

I believe the government is capable of all sorts of horrendous and illegal things if they want something to go their way. There's just no evidence of that happening in this case.

About the only thing I can see is some intelligence experts had information the towers were going to be attacked by hijacked planes, but in their arrogance or sheer disbelief they never acted on them. Then when it happened they're like "oh shit" and probably started shredding documents that proved they knew. Not because they planned it, but because they were incompetent. Who wants to be remembered in history as "The guy who knew the towers were going to be attacked, but never did anything about it."?

The idiots view of shredding documents is that it must be to cover up some huge conspiracy. I mean, nobody has ever destroyed documents over personal reasons or for their own benefit. Destruction of documents only happens in government coverups. Period.

[CharlesInCharge]

More spam... of course when you cant reply to the information in my posts.

to Graeme S
Your questions are about taking sides, not learning.

Originally Posted by radioman

Charles most of your claims have been answered by others but you like to think they're ignoring them. You have yet to reply to some of their questions. I'm going to disregard those previous questions of your as I feel there are sufficient answers from the naysayers.

I'd really like to think that such a powerful government/group could pull off a perfect terror attack when they have an exceptionally large amount of prep time without these mistakes that you find.

Why don't we take a look at what the US government could have done.

Cruise missile hit the pentagon? Do you really think they would use something as obvious as a cruise missile instead of an actual air plane? If this is an inside job we're not talking about men in huts planning an attack. These would be the brightest minds in the world I'm almost certain there wouldn't be any simple mistakes in their plan. The chances of there being eye witness to a plan hitting the tower would be extremely likely they would never have taken a risk like that. It's just a wild accusation.

If they wanted tower 7 down I don't see why they wouldn't have strapped some explosives in the base like they did when there was an earlier attack on WTC (1993 truck bomb). Could easily say it was another attack and that everyone would be distracted with the planes hitting the twin towers.

You pointed out the 9/11 in terminator I believe. So that was back in 1991? They had 10 years (or more) to plan this attack.

Your spinning the discussion, if you follow the thread of what my side has presented lately regarding the lobby explosions then I'll entertain your comments and questions.

[Graeme S]

Originally Posted by CharlesInCharge

to Graeme S
Your questions are about taking sides, not learning.

Certainly my questions are about taking sides. The current belief is...well, the current belief. If you want me to come around to your side, you need to show me why you're right. And as yet, you haven't done that.

[CharlesInCharge]

I just feel sorry for most of guys that you're on record and not comprehending anything that is shown to you.

[radioman]

^well that's just a hilarious statement.

[Graeme S]

Originally Posted by CharlesInCharge

I just feel sorry for most of guys that you're on record and not comprehending anything that is shown to you.

Trust me. We know exactly how you feel, brother.

[Excelsis]

Originally Posted by dangonay

The idiots view of shredding documents is that it must be to cover up some huge conspiracy. I mean, nobody has ever destroyed documents over personal reasons or for their own benefit. Destruction of documents only happens in government coverups. Period.

..right

If you want to understand what i say then you have to change your approach. Instead of going into it like "Show me evidence, this bullshit doesn't even qualify as evidence!" change it to "maybe i'm wrong, could this actually be true?"

Core beliefs are hard to change, that's why you don't see a catholic turn into an atheist or vice versa in a day, it takes time.

[CharlesInCharge]

I would love for a group of professors to psycho analyze and measure this thread on the level of information presented and the way it was presented... to see what our educational system is lacking and how powerful propaganda is.
Are our youth so susceptible to what they hear and see on television... have our schools been dumbed down?
To see previous posts of these members... could some just be trolling... we'll never find out but it would be great to know.

[radioman]

They could also find out why some members choose to avoid and are incredibly stubborn/paranoid.

[Excelsis]

i gave my reasons, read my posts 10x until you can understand why i say what i say

i remember when i was ignorant lol, just tried to come up with anything to dispute any evidence........

in the end it's your choice, be blissfully ignorant, or be aware of what's going on

listen to some things which ron paul says, or maybe not because he's just full of shit right?

[dangonay]

Originally Posted by Alpha v2

If you want to understand what i say then you have to change your approach. Instead of going into it like "Show me evidence, this bullshit doesn't even qualify as evidence!" change it to "maybe i'm wrong, could this actually be true?"

Core beliefs are hard to change, that's why you don't see a catholic turn into an atheist or vice versa in a day, it takes time.

What do "core beliefs" have to do with anything? This isn't a debate about whether God exists or not or how people were raised. This is a study of evidence and facts before us. If there was any evidence of controlled demolition or thermite then I would be interested in learning more about it. But there just isn't any. Just little kiddies stacking up towers of Jenga blocks to prove the towers were brought down at free-fall speed.

Originally Posted by radioman

They could also find out why some members choose to avoid and are incredibly stubborn/paranoid.

CiC gave you a Thanks? He's so out of touch he doesn't even know when he's being ridiculed.

Originally Posted by Alpha v2

i gave my reasons, read my posts 10x until you can understand why i say what i say

i remember when i was ignorant lol, just tried to come up with anything to dispute any evidence........

in the end it's your choice, be blissfully ignorant, or be aware of what's going on

listen to some things which ron paul says, or maybe not because he's just full of shit right?

Sounds like you're the one who's blissfully ignorant. Ignorant of mathematics, chemistry, physics and most of all, logic.

[mr_chin]

Originally Posted by Ronin

Right, so one side cites reason and science. The other makes wild claims and offers no evidence or reasoning beyond "Well, we think this happened.", "eyewitnesses" an Rosie O'Donnell.

Makes sense.
Posted via RS Mobile

Well you see, it's human nature to accept any sort of reasonable explanation about a tragedy. It's in the average human mind to find peace and calm to problems that will create chaos.

So when an expert throw some explanation at you about why and how the towers fell, you go "oh i see, that makes sense." Truthers that can give you a reasonable explanation already ruled out that it's a conspiracy, that there is nothing suspicious about it so their explanation can only be scientific and reasonable. You are consider among the gullible americans that believe anything seen on TV and read on the newspaper because you prefer to live a life with peace and calm rather than see the truth that is in clear view.

Go back to my previous post about the witnesses that heard the explosions. Let's not talk about the buildings falling because anyone can come up with an explanation. Multiple witnesses described events that cannot be explained. Video captures of WTC 7 imploding can't be explained. So because it cannot be explained, we just ignore it and pretend that it was never there?

I'm not saying that it was a conspiracy or not a conspiracy. All I want to know are answers to what the witnesses described. Why were there multiple explosions. Why was there an explosion at B2 prior to the planes hitting? How come there are firefighters saying there was a second explosion and third before the towers fell? How come it's so much of a coincident.

I know officials cannot answer any of these and so it leaves us wondering if this was really a terrorist attack or an inside job.

[Graeme S]

Originally Posted by CharlesInCharge

I would love for a group of professors to psycho analyze and measure this thread on the level of information presented and the way it was presented... to see what our educational system is lacking and how powerful propaganda is.
Are our youth so susceptible to what they hear and see on television... have our schools been dumbed down?
To see previous posts of these members... could some just be trolling... we'll never find out but it would be great to know.

Quite possibly the best and most accurate post we will ever see from CiC.

[mr_chin]

I'm gonna end it here for me by saying

If you are strictly standing up to one side of the story, you are as ignorant as the opposing side.

People who believe what the news media tells them are no better than those who believe videos of conspiracy and vise versa.

But my questions still stands about eye witnesses that were at the incident and WTC 7. The towers did fell, and possibly by the planes hitting it. But what about the questions that are left unanswered?

[Excelsis]

Ok lol I'm done do and believe whatever you want
Posted via RS Mobile

[CharlesInCharge]

And CharlesInCharge let this be a lesson not to start another 911 thread because we have spammed this one to the level of exhaustion.

I too retire.