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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
Both "sides" here are starting to look like idiots. The non-believers for using the wrong terms and the "I'm John Chow, bitch" group for talking around in circles. We all take a shot at the word "synergy".
A pyramid scheme in the traditional sense...
Is a flow of money, that's it. Someone hatches the idea, and gets others to buy in, and through exponential math, the people at the top keep making money and the people at the bottom make less and less, until finally it reaches critical mass and shuts down.
There is no product. There is no service. It is, at its core a money movement operation from the bottom to the top based on the idea that as soon as you get in, your downline tops you up and more, and they must do the same.
It's illegal.
It's pretty dumb, unless you are the con man at, or near the top.
So then, what is Multi-level marketing?
A way to legitimize that flow of money through product or service. Same pyramid shape, but no longer illegal. They do even better and cut you off from taking money super far down your "downline", but you do make money off the people that you recruit. Selling the business becomes just as important as selling the product.
Can you make money at this? Sure. Some people do well if its a good product and you are established in a community. Can you lose a lot? Absolutely. When you turn your friends into customers and pitches, you end up losing friends.
Is it illegal? No. Your moral values may differ.
What can I buy this way? Everything under the sun. Amway made a fortune doing this with household products and its been a "thing" ever since.
So why do people call MLM a pyramid scam?
Because its the same shape, and the same system, so therefore, if you are in a system with uplines and downlines then its automatically a "scam". It's not, really, kind of. My opinion here, its a moral grey area as I'm sure some can make money out of it, but a very small group. There are just some people out there that have a large social network and have a personality that can pull this shit off. So when they sell insurance, or houses or amway soap, they have a large group of people that they can sell it to.
So what the fuck are these guys talking about?
Here's what I can get from some very circular language.
It's not MLM. For those that don't know, there are affiliate programs that pay you a percentage or a flat fee for reselling someone else's product. What these guys are doing is packaging that up as a program. John's blog business is telling others how to get up in the affiliate system, while at the same time getting a group of people reading his blog about it, they are also becoming the customers for his own affiliate program.
With this MTTB, they decided to cut out the amazons and the webhosts of the world and pitch their own "shit". There are 2 levels. The top level, "them" keep a percentage of what everyone does as authors of the program. Everyone else then goes and sells for a much higher percentage of a much smaller pie, the program to people just like themselves.
These programs, once again from what I gather is a bunch of books and tapes written about how to pitch stuff, or "stuff" on the internet.
So why did I ask if MTTB is sellign MTTB?
They wrap a bunch of other stuff into it to fill it out, but I suspect that at its core, MTTB, named in a very specific way, as in, everyone that is a member is at the top of the pyramid, is a business that you come across, work through and spend 2k to buy into, then shift it on to as many other people as you can.
If "you"(the royal you) are a guy on the internet, who is bored with his job and wants more money, then you buy in and make money by finding other people just like you. The "business" tells you how to find them.
Is it a scam?
Scam? No.
From my reading(and these things are like a hobby of mine. I love 'em) its more YMMV: Your mileage may vary.
One-I don't think Mr.Chow here is far enough removed from this program to talk about it from an average users perspective. Those fancy checks that he gets handed as a member come from a print shop. Pick the number you want on it.
Two-there is a very specific way that these things are marketed. And dude, I've been reading about these things for as long as there is the internet. It's always from a laughable perspective of those that don't "get it" are wrong and stupid and everything in between. Terms get used like, "I've helped all these people" and literally, I have to use the term, but not in a negative way, but "showy douche". There is no other way to put it.
To the point where it has to be part of the program.
MTTB is an MLM. Pulled straight from Wikipedia (I know you will probably say this isn't a reasonable source, but for stuff like this Wikipedia actually does a phenomenal job):
Quote:
New businesses may use terms such as "affiliate marketing" or "home-based business franchising".
You can add books, you can add soap, you can add a free handjob in a public washroom, the main business here is selling the business to other people; hence the fact that this is an MLM. At some point along the line when MTTB has reached its "critical mass" John Chow is not going to continue peddling fucking books about affiliate marketing, he will have moved on to the next scam...
And if you still have lingering concerns here are the symptoms of an MLM:
Quote:
...cult-like behaviour, price fixing of products, high initial entry costs (for marketing kit and first products), emphasis on recruitment of others over actual sales, encouraging if not requiring members to purchase and use the company's products, exploitation of personal relationships as both sales and recruiting targets, complex and sometimes exaggerated compensation schemes, the company making major money off its training events and materials, and cult-like techniques which some groups use to enhance their members' enthusiasm and devotion.
There is 10 items there, and atleast 7 of them are met by the criteria set out by MTTB.
Yeah, I guess so. I mean you are getting a cut off your referrals business, so yes I guess it kind of is. But from what I gather, its a no in terms of not setting up a repetitive chain.
I mean, a friend gave me the talk about quixtar or some shit and we were 45 minutes in before talk of "points" and balancing the parts of the chain turned into actual money. I sat there, cut the program apart by asking one question and bailed. Pro tip: always take your own car! Posted via RS Mobile
I guess what I'm saying is there are multiple levels, but its not multi-level, you know?
That's people's issues with these things. I don't mind that bob signed me up and remains a percentage partner of my business, but I'm a flat no if I sign up fred and bob gets a cut. That is true, old school pyramid shape MLM.
In the pyramid "scam" fred is the product for me to get my money back, and we are both the same for bob. Fred is on his own to find his greater fool.
I'll try this again. MTTB is not a MLM. It's a 2-tier affiliate program. Licensees makes commission on the sales of MTTB products. If they refer a new licensee, they make 5% on the new licensee's business. If you're a licensee and you refer Jack, you make 5% royalty on what Jack makes. If Jack signs up Mary as a new licensee, Jack get 5% on Mary's business. you get nothing.
If an affiliate program goes beyond two tiers, it enters the world of MLM, and that brings with it a whole bunch of legal issues that I would rather avoid.
2-tier affiliate programs are very common among ad and affiliate networks. I make money by running ClickBanks ads on my blog, but I also make money by referring other bloggers to run Clickbank ads on their blogs. Clickbanks pays me 2% royalty on what the referred blogger makes. Over the years, I have referred thousand of bloggers to these ad networks and I make 2% to 10% off them every month. It's great passive income and allows me to live what I call "The Dot Com Lifestyle."
Even Google used a 2-tier affiliate program when they launched AdSense. I made a killing from that. Google eventually shut down their affiliate program because everyone and their dog now knows what AdSense is. There's no need to pay affiliates to refer new publishers.
It's not that I don't want to set up a MLM. I just have no experience with it. Affiliate marketing is what I know, and it's what I stick with.
That's what I thought of you. You see your name on Google alerts and you run to defend yourself. We have kept you baited for 8 pages. The more time you spend here the less time you have to scam people.
How are you enjoying your leased benz?
__________________ Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
That's what I thought of you. You see your name on Google alerts and you run to defend yourself. We have kept you baited for 8 pages. The more time you spend here the less time you have to scam people.
How are you enjoying your leased benz?
Actually, the more time we all spend here, the higher "John Chow My Top Tier Business" ranks on Google.
That's what I thought of you. You see your name on Google alerts and you run to defend yourself. We have kept you baited for 8 pages. The more time you spend here the less time you have to scam people.
How are you enjoying your leased benz?
This shows how little you know about my business. It's fully automated. I don't have to be there or look after it. My products are virtual. When someone buys something, I don't have to package it up or go to the post office to deliver it. The entire process, from ordering to product delivery, is hands off and all done electronically. That's why this business is attractive. It makes the money so you can sit on RS all day to have fun with haters.
The Benz is great. Any car you can get for free would be. When the lease on this SL550 expires, the company is getting me a SLS AMG GT. I'm not sure if I want the gullwing one or the convertible. I really should get the convertible because the OC has perfect weather for that, but I love the looks of the gullwing doors. Which one would you get?
This shows how little you know about my business. It's fully automated. I don't have to be there or look after it. My products are virtual. When someone buys something, I don't have to package it up or go to the post office to deliver it. The entire process, from ordering to product delivery, is hand off and all done electronically. That's why this business is attractive. It makes the money so you can sit on RS all day to have fun with haters.
The Benz is great. Any car you can get for free would be. When the lease on this SL550 expires, the company is getting me a SLS AMG GT. I'm not sure if I want the gullwing one or the convertible. I really should get a convertible because the OC has perfect weather for that, but I love the looks of the gullwing doors.
So you don't charge 2k an hour for consulting? I'm not really impressed with cars Mercedes is coming out with now. But hey if it helps you sucker in people.
__________________ Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTZ
When the lease on this SL550 expires, the company is getting me a SLS AMG GT. I'm not sure if I want the gullwing one or the convertible. I really should get a convertible because the OC has perfect weather for that, but I love the looks of the gullwing doors.
LOL
I'll call BS on the SLS AMG
Feel free to prove me wrong in 2 years. Posted via RS Mobile
MTTB won't be around in 2 years so its a moot point.
It's funny cause he thinks he is roping us into posting but even if he wasn't I would keep bumping this thread so more people read how big of a scam John Chow is. I hope that for every idiot that sees this thread and thinks to buy your product, there is 4000 that realize, in the words of Jeremy Clarkson; John Chow deserves to be shot in front of his family (not that they would care, I bet they think he is a douche to).
Feel free to prove me wrong in 2 years. Posted via RS Mobile
You won't have to wait that long. I'm already six months into the SL lease. It's not a question of the company paying for it. It was a question on whether I could maintain the points to keep such a car.
The SL cost me nine points a month. Points are awarded based on sales volume. Any points beyond nine gets banked to use in the future. I have enough points banked up that I can do zero sales until end of the lease and the lease would still be paid for, and I would still have points remaining.
Getting a SLS would require increasing the points from nine to 18 - 20, but that's no problem because I have over 500 points banked up, and I'm generating 60 to 100 per month at my current sales volume.
You won't have to wait that long. I'm already six months into the SL lease. It's not a question of the company paying for it. It was a question on whether I could maintain the points to keep such a car.
The SL cost me nine points a month. Points are awarded based on sales volume. Any points beyond nine gets banked to use in the future. I have enough points banked up that I can do zero sales until end of the lease and the lease would still be paid for, and I would still have points remaining.
Getting a SLS would require increasing the points from nine to 18 - 20, but that's no problem because I have over 500 points banked up, and I'm generating 60 to 100 per month at my current sales volume.
Why wouldn't you just take the cash instead of taking a leased car?
__________________ Until the lions have their own historians, the history of the hunt will always glorify the hunter.
lol...i was originally rooting against ttz in this thread but you guys dont cease commenting; and if you're such a newb and havent done reasearch into the companies or their customers' success (and not ones from his sales page) then i hope ttz takes ALL your money. if you truly had an interest in making money you'd be researching and testing day and night..all the info is out there for free, and there's ways to get hi priced info without paying.
anyways...keep hustling, John...best of luck
ps. are some of you actually reading this thread and sending him pm's asking for more info? lol
Hasn't it? Now hes just bragging he has enough points to upgrade to an sls. Hes just trying to rustle some jimmies now. You can tell by the tone he's presenting the information.
Plus dude, its a plausible recommendation. Its just vanity, he can be a better and more handsome John Chow, more handsome than he already is now. Wouldn't hurt for John Chow's face appearance has to match the sucessful abilities, and achievements of his character. "John Chow the hot sexy stud of my top tier business" doesn't that sound wonderful?
This thread is on the first page for 'john chow mttb' and 'john chow mttb scam' (twice).
Anyone looking for third party info is going to see, among a bunch of haters bitching at him non stop, a lot of people asking legitimate questions about what the business really is (probably the same questions the searcher will have), and good responses and promotion from John himself. They will find unfounded claims that it's a MLM scheme, and proof that it isn't (it isn't, so stop trying to say it is. Just because an MLM company calls itself an affiliate program, doesn't mean a normal affiliate program is MLM. Come on)
He couldn't have handled this better, IMO.
On top of all that, RS gets nice google placement, lots of extra activity during an otherwise slow time. The haters get to hate, which they love for some reason, and the non haters get to be entertained. It's all good!
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