BC Minimum Wage Increase - $15

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by Hakkaboy

obviously they won't, but they may hire and extra person or 2 for help if they think they can afford it. Not all businesses, but some which is better than none.

With minimum wage going up to $15/hr, this will lead to less jobs and higher prices for everyone

So making minimum wage "catch up" to inflation will actually cause more inflation. Anyone that has taken a basic Econ class should realize that.

As for people not being able to afford to live in Vancouver....well, don't live in Vancouver then?

So instead of keeping wages up with inflation over the years they helped businesses out by giving them cheap labor for decades. Now that the gravy train is ending everyone is up in arms when in reality wages have been behind the times for a long time now.

So yeah, I suppose if you're unhappy that you can't get your Big Mac for less than 10 bucks anymore go move somewhere else.

[Bouncing Bettys]

Minimum wage jobs were never meant to be a living wage? Then why is it so many companies, once providers of living wages, benefits, pensions, etc, have adopted the McJob model?

Minimum wage increases wouldn't be a big deal if there was also a maximum wage rate. Companies would be forced to reinvest any excess profits into the company and its employees.

Of course, to avoid their societal responsibilities to taxes, regulations, and providing living wages, they will just move their profits offshore, or move entire operations to third world countries with low wages. Globalization for greed is making the middle class disappear.

If the standard of living was brought up around the world, companies would have no where to run to avoid their responsibilities. Don't like paying taxes and living wages in Canada? Can't go to Malaysia, India, Mexico, etc because they will expect the same.

As an added bonus, this could also solve the immigration/refugee issues we see cropping up. No need to create racist laws to prevent immigration. Don't want these people coming in? Take away their reasons for wanting to leave their country for yours by raising the standard of living there.

Once Zefram Cochrane breaks the warp barrier and attracts the attention of the Vulcans, we will finally be able to unite for the greater good.

This will all be a moot point with automation set to collapse global economies in the coming decades anyways.

[Hondaracer]

Such a fucking race to the bottom mentality these days..

[MarkyMark]

The distribution of wealth has just gotten out of whack these days. The owners and CEOs used to have a nicer house, a better car, perhaps a cabin with a boat. Now billions in profit isn't enough, they gotta squeeze every last dollar they can to please those shareholders and get that bonus check on top of their multi million dollar salary.

[kr4l]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

The distribution of wealth has just gotten out of whack these days. The owners and CEOs used to have a nicer house, a better car, perhaps a cabin with a boat. Now billions in profit isn't enough, they gotta squeeze every last dollar they can to please those shareholders and get that bonus check on top of their multi million dollar salary.

I'm a owner and CEO of 3 businesses. My company doesn't make billions in profits nor do I have million dollar salary with a bonus. In reality, I probably work double your hours with less pay.

Please stop using huge corporations as your examples. We are talking about all the small businesses that will be hit by this wage increase. No, not your crackbucks, Tim Hortons, or McDonald's, but your corner store mom and pop shops, local restaurants, small grocery stores that only make ends meat.

This wage increase will definitely have a huge impact on my business. But you know what? I will adapt and survive, even if I need to cut half my staff, buy a self ordering station, and raise my prices but 30% while having wait times triple.

The only people this wage increase will affect is the consumer. I hope you're ready to pay 30% more for everything, even if your wage goes up slightly(or even at all).

Edit: I forgot to add that since everyone is a such a baller now with a huge increase in wage, I might as well raise my rent on my invesntment property

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by kr4l

I'm a owner and CEO of 3 businesses. My company doesn't make billions in profits nor do I have million dollar salary with a bonus. In reality, I probably work double your hours with less pay.

Please stop using huge corporations as your examples. We are talking about all the small businesses that will be hit by this wage increase. No, not your crackbucks, Tim Hortons, or McDonald's, but your corner store mom and pop shops, local restaurants, small grocery stores that only make ends meat.

This wage increase will definitely have a huge impact on my business. But you know what? I will adapt and survive, even if I need to cut half my staff, buy a self ordering station, and raise my prices but 30% while having wait times triple.

The only people this wage increase will affect is the consumer. I hope you're ready to pay 30% more for everything, even if your wage goes up slightly(or even at all).

Edit: I forgot to add that since everyone is a such a baller now with a huge increase in wage, I might as well raise my rent on my invesntment property

I use huge corporations as my example because that's the biggest exploit there is. When businesses get away with cheap labor the buck isn't passed on to anyone but themselves​.

Do I think a blanket $15 an hour for every business is ok? Probably not, perhaps it should go by how much profit the company made in the last so many years.

Like you said, the good businesses will adapt and survive, and I'll go eat at a restaurant 2 times a month instead of 3.

[inv4zn]

K, so rather than just spew out non-empirical opinion, or use Econ101 that I took 10 years ago as a source, I dug around a bit during lunch.

There's a lot of editorials and commentaries regarding the economic effects of raising min. wage, with both parts of the argument being subjectively justified, but I found this one to be a little more interesting. This is American, but it's published by the CBO -- take a read:
https://www.cbo.gov/publication/44995

Essentially, yes, jobs will disappear because of the added burden to small business owners. But also there will be more $ to spend for the people who make min wage, so the overall hit on the economy isn't as drastic as some are opining, and could potentially be overall better, if done right.

Now, let's be honest. I think nobody on RS is making minimum wage. With all the ballers on here, the proposed, stepped increases wouldn't suddenly ruin you financially.

All that said, I will admit that secretly I am a little salty that burger flippers will potentially be making $15/hr while I made $6.50 on my first job...

[MarkyMark]

People are adapting with the price of a house going up 100k in a year, yet make their Whopper go from 6 dollars to 7 and that's where the economy is going to tank?

[BIC_BAWS]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

People are adapting with the price of a house going up 100k in a year, yet make their Whopper go from 6 dollars to 7 and that's where the economy is going to tank?

Again, you refer to a Whopper, suggesting Burger King or other large corporations/big businesses. While BC's economy largely rests on the housing marketing, the other key contributors are small businesses.

So sure, the prices of housing are going up, okay. So don't you worry, Whopper prices aren't like to go up. But your favourite small burger shop (ie. Splitz Burger) will be forced to price higher to accommodate for the increased labour cost. In this scenario, most consumers would rather go to BK for a $5 burger than Splitz for a $7 burger. Thus, this price variation puts Splitz (and other small businesses) out of business.

Edit: I read your explanation about large corporations, but in this thread, the main focus has been the impact on small businesses since post #1.

[Bouncing Bettys]

If a business can't afford to pay its employees a living wage, and has to pass on costs to customers to the point of becoming un-profitable, they need to seriously rethink their business strategy.

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by BIC_BAWS

Again, you refer to a Whopper, suggesting Burger King or other large corporations/big businesses. While BC's economy largely rests on the housing marketing, the other key contributors are small businesses.

So sure, the prices of housing are going up, okay. So don't you worry, Whopper prices aren't like to go up. But your favourite small burger shop (ie. Splitz Burger) will be forced to price higher to accommodate for the increased labour cost. In this scenario, most consumers would rather go to BK for a $5 burger than Splitz for a $7 burger. Thus, this price variation puts Splitz (and other small businesses) out of business.

Edit: I read your explanation about large corporations, but in this thread, the main focus has been the impact on small businesses since post #1.

Which is why I said I don't think $15 an hour should be across the board, but start with the businesses that are profiting the most from cheap labor. I really don't think it would be the colossal fuck up everyone makes it out to be. Small business is more likely to hurt when everyone's money is tied up in the mortgage and can't afford to eat out anymore or spend that extra cash on something they like.

What are small businesses going to do when all the big players automate everything and pay one person for every 10 a small business has to employ because they can't afford robots?

Things change with time. This province used to run on lumber mills, but the government sold that industry out and now it runs on something else.

[kr4l]

Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys

If a business can't afford to pay its employees a living wage, and has to pass on costs to customers to the point of becoming un-profitable, they need to seriously rethink their business strategy.

Pretty easy to say coming from someone that doesn't own a business.. (please please please prove me wrong)

[kr4l]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

Which is why I said I don't think $15 an hour should be across the board, but start with the businesses that are profiting the most from cheap labor. I really don't think it would be the colossal fuck up everyone makes it out to be. Small business is more likely to hurt when everyone's money is tied up in the mortgage and can't afford to eat out anymore or spend that extra cash on something they like.

What are small businesses going to do when all the big players automate everything and pay one person for every 10 a small business has to employ because they can't afford robots?

Things change with time. This province used to run on lumber mills, but the government sold that industry out and now it runs on something else.

everyone's money is always tied up in mortgages and rent. You can't use hat example and say that'll hurt the small business economy. What's going to hurt is people have no money cause they have no jobs.

What people are worried about is the unemployement. Instead of just being 'ok' at your job, you gotta be damn good at your job or else fired. How are millennial suppose to gain any work experience when they can't find a job.

The automated system is actually not as expensive as you think. So what am I gunna do? I'm going to invest in it cause in the long run, it'll save me lots of money. What does that mean? Less jobs

'Things change with time' that's funny you say that and I'm glad you understand that here. It's also relevant with everything you say about the housing market as well wit people buying 10 years ago compared to now.

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by kr4l

everyone's money is always tied up in mortgages and rent. You can't use hat example and say that'll hurt the small business economy. What's going to hurt is people have no money cause they have no jobs.

What people are worried about is the unemployement. Instead of just being 'ok' at your job, you gotta be damn good at your job or else fired. How are millennial suppose to gain any work experience when they can't find a job.

The automated system is actually not as expensive as you think. So what am I gunna do? I'm going to invest in it cause in the long run, it'll save me lots of money. What does that mean? Less jobs

'Things change with time' that's funny you say that and I'm glad you understand that here. It's also relevant with everything you say about the housing market as well wit people buying 10 years ago compared to now.

Yeah I can use mortgages as an example because now more than ever people are using more and more of their net income on it, and it's only getting worse.

Perhaps people making more money might go out and spend more money? Oh no that's blasphemy it will only cost jobs right? That money vanishes into thin air once you pry it from an owners cold dead hands.

And what's wrong with having to be damn good at your job? Isn't that how it used to be, you do a good job or you get canned? If that's not how you choose which employees you keep then I don't know what to say.

But really what does it matter, whether people do a good job or not you already admitted you'll replace them with a robot, so they might as well start making some extra cash off you in the meantime.

[Digitalis]

Willing to bet you voted NDP. Never owned a profitable business and never will.
As far as I'm concerned there should be no safety net of min wage.
You will quickly find where you stand and if you need to make more you'd upgrade yourself. If your willing to work at a lower wage you've got no one to blame but yourself.
Any country that punishes those who earn more by taxing the crap out of them is a country that has lost it's freedom. Take a look at France for rates, look at what happened to Seattle with 15/h.
All you'll do is justify the cost of robots.

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

I use huge corporations as my example because that's the biggest exploit there is. When businesses get away with cheap labor the buck isn't passed on to anyone but themselves​.

Do I think a blanket $15 an hour for every business is ok? Probably not, perhaps it should go by how much profit the company made in the last so many years.

Like you said, the good businesses will adapt and survive, and I'll go eat at a restaurant 2 times a month instead of 3.

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by Digitalis

Willing to bet you voted NDP. Never owned a profitable business and never will.
As far as I'm concerned there should be no safety net of min wage.
You will quickly find where you stand and if you need to make more you'd upgrade yourself. If your willing to work at a lower wage you've got no one to blame but yourself.
Any country that punishes those who earn more by taxing the crap out of them is a country that has lost it's freedom. Take a look at France for rates, look at what happened to Seattle with 15/h.
All you'll do is justify the cost of robots.

What happened in Seattle? Did every mom and pop shop close down and unemployment rate the highest in the country?

[meme405]

This is what $15 an hour minimum wage looks like:



And I'll be damned, these machines are wayyyy better than the stupid teenager at the counter ever was. You can even mix the flavours on the Mcflurry.

[RRxtar]

i always like these discussions when people say "Huge corporations can afford it". ya what about all the small businesses? i bet 95% of employees have no fucking clue about the financials of the business they work for and over estimate margins by 10x

[kr4l]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

Yeah I can use mortgages as an example because now more than ever people are using more and more of their net income on it, and it's only getting worse.

Perhaps people making more money might go out and spend more money? Oh no that's blasphemy it will only cost jobs right? That money vanishes into thin air once you pry it from an owners cold dead hands.

And what's wrong with having to be damn good at your job? Isn't that how it used to be, you do a good job or you get canned? If that's not how you choose which employees you keep then I don't know what to say.

But really what does it matter, whether people do a good job or not you already admitted you'll replace them with a robot, so they might as well start making some extra cash off you in the meantime.

So you're saying people are going to spend less now, because they have mortgages, but back a few years ago, they spent more cause they also had mortgages?? Just because you don't have the income to spend or don't want to, doesn't mean everyone is doing the same. I know this cause I see it personally with my business.

Again, your going with the make more money spend more money. Just because the minimum wage is $15, does not mean there is going to be more money out there to spend. If you don't get this part, then I got nothing but this example

$11 x 8 hours is $88
$15 x 4 hours is $60

Yes hours will be cut, jobs will be cut (minimum wage jobs). You don't see this happening because you do not own a small business. I'm telling you straight up that this is what I'm going to do as a small business owner to stay afloat.

Do you know how many new employees I hire that don't make the cut? Especially at $15 you better be damn good. I first hand see these things while you just talk about it and think you know.

Since you don't know me, let me tell you that I actually care about all my staff like my own children. I try to teach them the valuable skills needed to be leaders in there career jobs after our place. If I wanted to implement self serving stations and cut staff right now to make more money, I could. I don't cause I'm not a greedy bastard. But the $15 minimum wage is making that decision for me and I let my staff know the reasons behind it.

You're making it sound like all business owners are greedy bastards and now my staff should be greedy as well since I'm going to be replacing them with robots. First and foremost, I need to worry about the business. Without that, no one gets paid, not me, not my staff

But it seems you have all he answers when you don't even own a business.

[Spoon]

Originally Posted by meme405

This is what $15 an hour minimum wage looks like:



And I'll be damned, these machines are wayyyy better than the stupid teenager at the counter ever was. You can even mix the flavours on the Mcflurry.

Everytime I use these, it comes with a sense of guilt. Knowing damn well that I'm eliminating starter type jobs for my kids or future generations. But to each their own.

[MarkyMark]

To be clear, I'm not against small business owners. You took the risk to build your own thing and that takes balls. This $15 minimum wage should be something that is phased in for the smaller businesses, since they will be the ones that will need to restructure the most.

[kr4l]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

To be clear, I'm not against small business owners. You took the risk to build your own thing and that takes balls. This $15 minimum wage should be something that is phased in for the smaller businesses, since they will be the ones that will need to restructure the most.

Even with all the bullshit I spewed towards you, the bottom line is that this minimum wage will do more harm than good, especially to the consumers, which is everyone..

[Manic!]

Whats going to happen is business that are not that successful are going to shut down and there customers will go to other places. Those places will make even more money.

[jasonturbo]

Anyone who works hard and gives a fuck about their job already makes over $20/hr.

Why do I get paid minimum wage checklist: (If you check any of these you're probably getting paid min. wage.)
- I'm in high school
- I'm lazy as fuck at work
- I'm lazy as fuck at life
- I don't care about customer service
- I don't care whether or not my employer makes money
- I miss at least 1 work day per month
- I come in late at least 2 times per month
- I have no education
- I have no trade ticket
- I have no unique skills
- I can't communicate with customers
- I present like a homeless person
- I'm Filipino (Mexicans of the North)

CEO pay is outrageously high because there is tremendous competition for these individuals due to their intelligence, leadership skills, track record, education, personality, etc. If you want to bitch about CEO pay go buy shares in the company.

Nothing is stopping anyone in this thread from being a CEO, work hard, get to the top, and then give 98% of your wage to the rest of the staff.

[BIC_BAWS]

Originally Posted by jasonturbo

Anyone who works hard and gives a fuck about their job already makes over $20/hr.


CEO pay is outrageously high because there is tremendous competition for these individuals due to their intelligence, leadership skills, track record, education, personality, etc. If you want to bitch about CEO pay go buy shares in the company.

Nothing is stopping anyone in this thread from being a CEO, work hard, get to the top, and then give 98% of your wage to the rest of the staff.

THIS. While I do already make over $20/hr, its disheartening that the government is simply saying, hey everyone else, here's a free pass. Fuck all those other guys who completed their qualifications and worked their ass off. Even though it is a $5 difference, the petty part in me is still annoyed.