BC Minimum Wage Increase - $15

[Sid Vicious]

Originally Posted by BIC_BAWS

While I'm not disputing the validity of a 78 year study, it should be mentioned that 78 years is a long time. That study would be looking at the long term effects, which like you said, showed no correlation.

So from that, we know that businesses won't be royally fucked for life. But it'll probably still be pretty rough for the short term period (2-3 years in this case, usually 5 years).

I think it's important to recognize that there are very imminent short-term effects to the Vancouver market, since (like Flagella said) we are made up of mostly SMEs.

Side note: Seattle pay is actually a lot better than Vancouver pay, even when you look at relative costs.

right, but like i said before, i doubt the real value of $15 in 2019 is all that much higher than $10 in 2012

[Bouncing Bettys]

Originally Posted by flagella

people have to do something to live.

Indeed they do. But a living wage is out of the question?

Big business has used globalization to drive down wages, break up unions, ship jobs overseas, hide profits and taxable income offshore, and so on for short-sighted greed. Increasing the minimum wage to a livable wage is a drop in the bucket to the negative effects and costs to society these practices have brought about. Unfortunately, small business is caught in the middle. They may want to exercise responsible business practices and provide living wages, but they are at the whim of Big Business. They should be directing their political efforts towards reigning in Big Business, not siding with them and attacking the people least able to fight for themselves. Big Business is more than happy to watch us all fight over their table scraps.

[RRxtar]

You guys understand that small business employers employ about 55% of the private sector work force in british columbia?


Sticking it to big business, with a few small businesses caught in the middle is so fucking backwards.

We should be doing whatever we can to support small businesses as a priority. Not put their concerns secondary to an intent to hurt big business.

I think the general consensus is that most of us believe big business can absorb a minimum wage increase either thru changing staffing, or more likely increasing technology/automation, and that small businesses will have to adapt and will probably suffer as a result.

[heisenberg]

so to summarize this thread so far

- minimum wage is going to $15
- people wont be encouraged to go to school
- people who worked hard in the past to get wage increases now means shit
- labour goes up = cost of goods go up = small businesses go out of business
- people comparing living wage and minimum wage
- people will lose jobs because staff cost is too high
- a lot of animosity towards uneducated workers making close to livable wages
- people who want more money should further themselves with schooling
- people want to stop tipping
- bottom 10% of staff now getting paid equivalent to the top 20% / middle 70%
- work for what you want no matter the cost
- everyone should just work harder
- constant comparing of top ranked employees making living wage and new employees making slightly less than them
- people forgetting that people are people and need to make money at the end of the day
- employees making $15 after the raise should work harder and earn it
- hire less people, make the current people work harder
- business could go up, because people can afford new adventures
- businesses are currently ditching shitty employees cause their current ones can work twice as hard, because they're being paid to
- constant comparing dish washers to cooks and chefs
- $15/hr is a consumer problem
- people are butt hurt over non-educated, non-hardworking people, making the same as educated and hardworking people
- adapt or die
- people comparing us to other countries / states

im gonna babble off and on topic.

my last two jobs, have been night and day.
currently i work in a kitchen making 12.25/hr + 2/hr in tips, with 2nd year schooling related to the field.
after working full time i make roughly $960 a paycheck, and after taxes and deductions i make $850, about $100 towards taxes and ei and shit.
i used to work parks and rec under the city of vancouver, making $20.98/hr with no formal education, skills, oh ya, and i was in highschool.
all i had for me, was i was mature and a good worker. working full time i'd make 1700, but after taxes it was more like $1200. thats $500 towards shit I didnt know about at the time.

so constantly saying, you need school and this and need to be a hard worker will get you more $/hr, isnt always right. its all about the opportunities you make for yourself.
and making more money isnt always a good thing. lets take my city job for example, if i continued that trend for a whole year, i'd make like $45k, but after taxes its more like $29, thats 15k difference.
now with the kitchen, lets round it up to $2k a month, $24k a year and after taxes, something closer to $22k. higher paying jobs for me, lead to less money in my pocket in a sense.

hopefully this gets you guys thinking of the person it will be affecting. not everyone on RS drives nice cars and works cool jobs making them bank..

and another note, everyone knows the saying "time is money", and i believe this saying is true.
lets say you work 2 hours, and make after taxes 16-30/hr. do any of you look at what you will purchase and be like hmm... that cost me 2 hours of my life, is it really worth it now.
after my first paycheque i started to look at life differently, everything didn't cost a numeral value to me, it cost me a percentage of my life i'll never get back, because time is money. and time is something you'll never be able to get back.
this whole thought process changed the way i thought about life, my spending habbits and purchases. everything you acquire in life has an equivalent exchange, and that is time.
so tying this together with the $15/hr thing, ya costs of goods will go up, your spending habits might not.

after reading my own post i dont even know what im talking about, im just babbling on lol.

[Jmac]

I'm 99% certain that $29k > $22k

[heisenberg]

it is, i agree with you. i knew this would come up.

would you rather make $45k a year doing what you absolutely love, or $60k a year, dreading work everyday?

edit: i would look at my t4's at the end of the year and be like how the fuck did i make $xx,xxx, i dont recall spending that much money, and realize wow i got taxed about 30% off every paycheque

[N.V.M.]

Originally Posted by heisenberg

it is, i agree with you. i knew this would come up.

would you rather make $45k a year doing what you absolutely love, or $60k a year, dreading work everyday?

edit: i would look at my t4's at the end of the year and be like how the fuck did i make $xx,xxx, i dont recall spending that much money, and realize wow i got taxed about 30% off every paycheque

and then you get taxed on everything you buy with the remaining money.

[MarkyMark]

Yeah taxes are great, and soon that car that you paid taxes on, that you fill up with more taxes every week, and maintain with even more taxes, will soon be taxed again for driving on the roads that taxes paid for.

[westopher]

Taxes are the perfect tool here to help level the playing field. Tax benefits for small businesses (based on the small businesses profit/loss x number of employees) would be the way to soften the blow.
Where does the tax money we need come from now you ask? Well. For a start Canada could actually start punishing those involved in the billions of tax evasion each year. They can raise taxes for large corporations.
WE can also do our part by supporting small businesses and not scouring around for the cheapest shit product. Buy your coffee at K4rl's coffee shop(?) instead of starbucks. I know I would.

[BIC_BAWS]

Originally Posted by Jmac

I'm 99% certain that $29k > $22k

I think the argument is that for less effort and hourly wage, there was only a $7K difference. Is it worth it? Tho I'd like to think that restaurant work isn't easy either.

Edit: Did not see there was a next page (on Tapatalk)

[Hondaracer]

there are very few if any cases where making enough money to push you into a higher tax bracket nets you less overall after tax income.

[westopher]

He's not saying that though. He's saying he's happier making less and doing what he wants to do, and that the real world gap of income is much smaller than his gross income.

[BIC_BAWS]

Originally Posted by westopher

He's not saying that though. He's saying he's happier making less and doing what he wants to do, and that the real world gap of income is much smaller than his gross income.

I realize that now. But I can't delete a post, nor will I, since I'm a strong believer of transparency.

[Jmac]

I'm aware, but he did state "higher paying jobs for me, lead to less money in my pocket" which is generally not true. Better perks, medical and dental coverage, pension, etc. can certainly mean a lower salary/wage job may indeed lead to more money in your pocket.

I thought his point was that an education doesn't necessarily equate to a higher-paying job (in his case, he was getting paid more for the job that required no education).

[Jmac]

Originally Posted by BIC_BAWS

I think the argument is that for less effort and hourly wage, there was only a $7K difference. Is it worth it? Tho I'd like to think that restaurant work isn't easy either.

Edit: Did not see there was a next page (on Tapatalk)

A $7K difference in take home pay is $583/month or 31.8% more take home income. That's pretty substantial to most people.

[BIC_BAWS]

Originally Posted by Jmac

A $7K difference in take home pay is $583/month or 31.8% more take home income. That's pretty substantial to most people.

Yes, I agree. My point is that to some people the more time and effort spent may not be worth more money.

[westopher]

Originally Posted by BIC_BAWS

I realize that now. But I can't delete a post, nor will I, since I'm a strong believer of transparency.

I was just responding to hondaracer there.

[heisenberg]

can I add in my tips or is that too late? In a year I'll make 6k in tips or so. the city job was stressful, that's why I work in a kitchen lol. have any of you ever had a stranger tell you that they're your boss because they pay taxes and that's how I was getting paid.

[Jmac]

Originally Posted by heisenberg

can I add in my tips or is that too late? In a year I'll make 6k in tips or so. the city job was stressful, that's why I work in a kitchen lol. have any of you ever had a stranger tell you that they're your boss because they pay taxes and that's how I was getting paid.

I work in health care ... so several times a month, yes.

[BIC_BAWS]

Bumping this thread after seeing this article: 60,000 jobs lost by 2019 due to minimum wage increase: Bank of Canada

The Bank of Canada estimates there will be about 60,000 fewer jobs by 2019 due to the increases in minimum wages across the country, but that labour income will be higher due to the increases.

[stewie]

Originally Posted by heisenberg

can I add in my tips or is that too late? In a year I'll make 6k in tips or so. the city job was stressful, that's why I work in a kitchen lol. have any of you ever had a stranger tell you that they're your boss because they pay taxes and that's how I was getting paid.

Yes. On almost a daily basis
They pay their taxes and the tax payer is always right! A lot of those phone calls involve me just sitting there laughing on the inside while I listen to them ramble.
(City worker)

[Traum]

Was thinking about this thread as well when I saw the news this morning:

Franchises owned by children of Tim Hortons founders reduce employee benefits - NEWS 1130

This is in Ontario, not BC. But still, the entire atmosphere and underlying message is just the same.

[welfare]

^^love the comment in that article.
"So cruel. Will not go to Tim Hortons until reversed". Moron

Is BC even getting a wage increase like Alberta or Ontario?

[BIC_BAWS]

Originally Posted by welfare

Is BC even getting a wage increase like Alberta or Ontario?

I believe it's an election promise (one that I hope they don't fullfil) + proposed plan I haven't heard anything about it since I posted this thread earlier last year.


Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[jackal]

here are my .02 cents real quick.
i'm a small business owner some might say medium business owner.
i currently employ 44 people and run a restaurant.
my wages range from 11.5 up to 17.50

i don't care if min wages went up to 30 an hour but i can promise that the day after all my pricing will scale accordingly. realistically for people earning minimum wage i can see how a bump in pay can help them in certain aspects of their lives. i think its fair to assume that even if minimum wages increased by 20% inflation would claw back a decent portion of that increase.

imo the people that get really hit hard are the people earning in the 15-25/ hour range. it's very unlikely that people in that range will see any significant increase in pay and after price inflation more then likely will be far worse off then before a large min wage hike. min wage needs to rise but imo it needs to be gradual. i would also have little issue with tying min wage to inflation. (also assuming if we ever went into recession then min wage has the potential to drop) although i'm no economist, maybe this is a recipe for long term hyper inflation.

oh one other point. i would really like the training wage to come back. not 500 hours but realistically it takes probably 100-150 hours of me having to overstaff in order to get someone up to speed and not need help constantly. the number of dollars wasted training young or inexperienced employees in my line of work is honestly mind boggling.