BC Minimum Wage Increase - $15

[Hondaracer]

It's like those immigrant memes where it's like "sorry Jim but Dr.gupta didn't take your job"

Bottom feeder McDonald's employee mad at CEO who's devoted his life to a company to make it a success vs a guy who can't get a Big Mac right.

[zyzzjr]

[FerrariEnzo]

This is another way of government making more money from us.. we end up paying more taxes...

[Gh0st]

ppl wanting minimum wage to rise substantially should take a macroeconomics course.. i'm not opposed to anything at all, but there are drawbacks!

[westopher]

Originally Posted by BIC_BAWS

THIS. While I do already make over $20/hr, its disheartening that the government is simply saying, hey everyone else, here's a free pass. Fuck all those other guys who completed their qualifications and worked their ass off. Even though it is a $5 difference, the petty part in me is still annoyed.

Your life doesn't get any better by keeping someone else's life shittier.
You don't make enough at where you're at, why don't you just work harder? That seems like its your advice to the minimum wage earners. Take it.
People that can afford to live can put money back into the economy, driving local businesses.
The fact that someone who is making a living wage, is upset about people at the absolute bottom getting slightly closer to them is pretty pathetic. Wages are not increasing at the same rate as inflation or home prices. Its time to catch up.

[BIC_BAWS]

Originally Posted by westopher

You don't make enough at where you're at, why don't you just work harder? That seems like its your advice to the minimum wage earners. Take it.
People that can afford to live can put money back into the economy, driving local businesses.

Like I said, I am being petty and I am saying exactly that. If you don't make enough where you're at, why don't you further yourself with education? Why don't you make changes? If you're stuck at a McD's job, why don't you sign up to their partnership program with BCIT, that gives you a diploma, and a direct transfer into the BBA?

I have no sympathy for the people around me who complain about working a shitty job, but never bothered to go to school because they think it's useless or in some cases, they just don't feel like it. These are the same people I hear complaining about minimum wage, are the same people who blow their money on getting high everyday or screw around at work.

Granted the people I'm describing isn't everyone.

People who can afford to live will put money back into the economy, assuming that our interest rates don't increase. If they stay at the low rate they are right now, then yes, you are correct. People will more likely spend than save, especially with low interest rates. The statement is reversed if there are high interest rates.

[BIC_BAWS]

AstulzerRZD has said (on a separate post):

"McDonalds ordering machines cost only $5 a day to operate! Perhaps we'll be seeing more of this in low wage industries.

As well, I was speaking with a Econ PhD candidate, and the basic models used in Econ 101 to describe the inefficiencies of a minimum wage is actually proven wrong in 201. In general, a growing economy will benefit from a higher minimum wage."

Assuming that Econ 101 is Micro, and that Econ 201 is Macro. All of my arguments on a theoretical standpoint was from Macroeconomics.

Does anyone have knowledge of the theory beyond micro and macro, and can speak on the above argument?

[Jmac]

Originally Posted by Hakkaboy

obviously they won't, but they may hire and extra person or 2 for help if they think they can afford it. Not all businesses, but some which is better than none.

With minimum wage going up to $15/hr, this will lead to less jobs and higher prices for everyone

So making minimum wage "catch up" to inflation will actually cause more inflation. Anyone that has taken a basic Econ class should realize that.

As for people not being able to afford to live in Vancouver....well, don't live in Vancouver then?

Considering I assume this thread is related to the NDP, their platform included a path to a $15 minimum wage in addition to reducing taxes for small businesses.

[nsx042003]

so if this gets implemented, can I stop tipping @ various places? I am ALL for this then.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

The distribution of wealth has just gotten out of whack these days. The owners and CEOs used to have a nicer house, a better car, perhaps a cabin with a boat. Now billions in profit isn't enough, they gotta squeeze every last dollar they can to please those shareholders and get that bonus check on top of their multi million dollar salary.

Cousin runs a franchise pizza place. You don't make that after all expense/fees/equipment/franchise fees. He also works the worse hours and haven't taken any vacation for a few years already. Not to mention the time he sacrifice with his family.

Typical day he goes to work Wed to Sun 4pm to closing (usually close around 1am then there is cleaning and crap so he is usually done by 2am). Goes home sleep on the couch since wife is already sleeping and he doesn't want to wake her up. Gets up around 10 to 11am next day, doesn't get a chance to play or take his kid to school. Also on his time off he have to order stock/sometimes even go pick up the stock himself if he runs out and needs it ASAP. Make schedule for his employee, do all the accounting. Sometimes he also needs to work 6 days if some employee call in sick or just doesn't show up. He also goes to close the the pizza place on his day off to make sure the profit he makes is all counted for.

You could ask why not work 9 to 5 and weekends off or go on vacation? When you are a business owner you don't just walk away. You want your business to succeed. Working in the day time sure he could do that but people usually order take out pizza at night and on weekends. Do your trust your employee enough not to steal any money while you go on your 2 week vacation?

Most small business make very very little profit once you factor in all the work they do. Is not like your 9 to 5 where you can come in at 9, go chat with co-workers for 10mins, grab a cup of coffee from the kitchen and starts working maybe 20mins later and leave right a 5. You don't have to care if there are work needs to be done ASAP or stay an extra hour with no pay. You can take vacation anytime you like or just call in sick whenever.

Next time you shop at a mom and pop shop ask the owner how many vacation they have taken in last year and how many days they took sick days off.

[meme405]

Originally Posted by westopher

Your life doesn't get any better by keeping someone else's life shittier.
You don't make enough at where you're at, why don't you just work harder? That seems like its your advice to the minimum wage earners. Take it.
People that can afford to live can put money back into the economy, driving local businesses.
The fact that someone who is making a living wage, is upset about people at the absolute bottom getting slightly closer to them is pretty pathetic. Wages are not increasing at the same rate as inflation or home prices. Its time to catch up.

Okay see this is the thing, lets stick to one example:

A person who is making 15 bucks an hour now, and a teenage cashier at a convenience store who is making 10 bucks an hour now.

So the cashier gets bumped to 15 an hour in the next couple years. What happens to the other guy making 15 an hour? His wage doesn't go up. So you're not moving everyone up the ladder, your just raising the very bottom. It's not going to do a fucking thing. Literally in terms of quality of life, or living is not going to add up to a fucking thing. $15 an hour is not a living wage in vancouver, hell it's not even a living wage in burnaby, new west, fuck I can't even imagine it in surrey.

What BicBaws pointed out is the exact same issue I take with unions. They take what is never going to EVER be a level playing field, and artificially level it. Some employees are just better than others, but unions destroy that, and they put shitty employees and good employees on even ground, it's retarded.

This is going to do exactly the same thing, when I was in high school I worked at Cypress Mountain, I actually ended up working there for a number of years, The first year I think I was a little higher than minimum wage (barely but just because you had to travel so far for work), I was a good worker (I know shocking), so I got a raise, and the next season I got another raise. I remember there was another kid, who worked there from before me and was still working there my second year, he didn't get fuck all, because he was a lazy piece of shit and basically just sat around flirting with the cashiers. Now even into my third year I was still only at like $14 an hour.

I look back at my scenario, and I wonder you bump that starting wage way the fuck higher to $15 an hour. It just means that my first 4 years I just wouldn't have gotten any raises. or I presume that's how it would work out at a place like cypress. Instead what it would do is bump people like that little fuck I worked with to an even level with other good employees - AKA refer back to the example with bullshit unions above.

[Mr.HappySilp]

Originally Posted by westopher

Your life doesn't get any better by keeping someone else's life shittier.
You don't make enough at where you're at, why don't you just work harder? That seems like its your advice to the minimum wage earners. Take it.
People that can afford to live can put money back into the economy, driving local businesses.
The fact that someone who is making a living wage, is upset about people at the absolute bottom getting slightly closer to them is pretty pathetic. Wages are not increasing at the same rate as inflation or home prices. Its time to catch up.

But you see my life does get shitter. Assuming now someone makes $25/hour and a meal cost $15.

Min wage is raise to $15 but my wage doesn't go up and stays at $25. However that meal now cost me $20 coz well business needs to raise the cost to keep up with hiring people with higher pay. So I just got screw with paying an extra $5 for my meal.

Also since everything is more expensive people who makes the new Min wage is no better off than it was when min wage was lower because everything went up. In fact he might even be worse off because some business might even raise the price even higher (Most likely big chain stores.).

I still remember long long long time ago I used to eat at Crystal mall very often. This one place was charging like $5 for a meal. When Min wage goes up by a tiny bit. They raise the price of the same meal to $7.50 and blame it on the higher labor cost.

[MG1]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

Next time you shop at a mom and pop shop ask the owner how many vacation they have taken in last year and how many days they took sick days off.

This is why I chose not to own a pizza franchise or any small business, for that matter. It's risky business (pun intended). Having said that, some people like being their own boss. Trying to survive and staying ahead of the competition.............some make it while the majority fail. Rising prices of materials, rent, labour, you name it are never predictable and out of your control. Yet, we have people willing to take that risk. Why?

IMHO, there are way too many restaurants, pizza joints, and coffee shops. Yet, Starbucks seems to be doing well (they started out small). Uncle Fatih seems to be doing well. Sushi Garden seems to be doing well. Etc. Mom and pop shops have always struggled and will continue to till the end of time. I saw corner grocery stores close down by the dozen when the big boys like Superstore and Walmarts opened up. Yet, we have some that are becoming more popular than ever. Instead of one on every fricken intersection, there are just a few in each neighbourhood. These places survived because they evolved and made their business special to attract new customers. I know I'm going off on a tangent, but it's better than boring the living piss out of people by posting about my experiences holding minimum wage jobs while going to elementary, secondary, and university.

I really loved those jobs, BTW. Made the most out of shitty situations and had fun. "It's better to light a candle than curse the darkness."

[westopher]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

But you see my life does get shitter. Assuming now someone makes $25/hour and a meal cost $15.

Min wage is raise to $15 but my wage doesn't go up and stays at $25. However that meal now cost me $20 coz well business needs to raise the cost to keep up with hiring people with higher pay. So I just got screw with paying an extra $5 for my meal.

Well heres a satisfying quote for me to share that you posted in the real estate thread that I will adjust for this thread

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

Just because you are born here doesn't give you more rights than others. Don't like the fact you can't own? Make changes to your life. Buy farther away from the city, share a rental unit with friends to cut cost down, get a 2nd part time job, spend less. There is always a choice but I guess that's too much to ask.

Just because you ate there before doesn't give you the right to keep eating it. Don't like the fact that meal is an extra $5? Make changes to your meals. Eat smaller portions, share a meal with a friend to cut cost down, get a second part time job, spend less. You have a choice but I guess thats too much to ask.

[westopher]

God this is too fucking easy

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

Want to get something you want? Work for it. See I hate people who complain but does nothing to change their life.

Want to afford that extra $5 for your meal? Work for it. I hate people who complain but it does nothing to change their life.

[SiRV]

Originally Posted by BIC_BAWS

BC Minimum Wage Increase to $15/hr


This is encouraging people to not go to school and not to further themselves. This is saying that a Cineplex worker will make $15 per hour. Coming from someone who's worked there before, this is ridiculous. This is also saying that if you worked hard/educated yourself to get where you are today, well too bad, the government is giving everyone else a free pass.

If I learned anything from economics, we know that as cost of labour goes up, demand for labour goes down. We also know that as cost of labour goes up, so does prices. This is known as cost-push inflation. The result? Small businesses go out of business. Since they will be affected by the wage increase more than large businesses, they will have to increase their prices, and will not be able to compete (on a price standpoint).

In addition, if anyone thinks the Gov actually cares about you, a higher income means higher income taxes, cpp, ei, etc.

For those people arguing about how businesses have to give a livable wage, well, have you considered that many businesses offer non-monetary benefits (ie. extended health/dental/vision/chiro plans). Instead of a higher minimum wage, how about mandating better benefits?

Thoughts?

Didn't read the rest of the comments but, the way it actually works is like this:
- most people can't survive on 15/hr
- these people will be still considered poor
- it's the poor people who will spend money moreso than the rich
- example: 10 people making 15/hr will spend more than 1 person making 150/hr (this person will likely be saving their$$)
- the increase in spending overall will allow for greater circulation of Money
- increasing circulating money will increase overall profits for companies

[Bouncing Bettys]

Businesses which pay less than a living wage are already passing the costs onto the public as employees are more likely to depend on tax-payer funded social programs to get by. Instead of their customer base covering the costs of a wage increase, the entire tax-payer base, including the business owners themselves (if they haven't got a good accountant, lawyer, or offshore account to hide from their responsibilities) has to cover the income shortfall.

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

But you see my life does get shitter. Assuming now someone makes $25/hour and a meal cost $15.

Min wage is raise to $15 but my wage doesn't go up and stays at $25. However that meal now cost me $20 coz well business needs to raise the cost to keep up with hiring people with higher pay. So I just got screw with paying an extra $5 for my meal.

So you want to keep someone else's wages the same for life so you can continue to reap the benefits of it. If that extra 5 dollars a meal really hurts you, then take your own advice and go collect pop cans after work to make up the difference, no one owes you anything. Work harder.

[Mr.Money]

greed is a simple thing to like,more and more are gonna hop on the bandwagon just for afew extra bucks.

[yray]

How do teachers feel about this now that they are earning less

[Bouncing Bettys]

How does everyone feel about increases in taxes to cover social programs attempting to keep the working poor and their families off the streets?

[kr4l]

Originally Posted by Bouncing Bettys

Businesses which pay less than a living wage are already passing the costs onto the public as employees are more likely to depend on tax-payer funded social programs to get by. Instead of their customer base covering the costs of a wage increase, the entire tax-payer base, including the business owners themselves (if they haven't got a good accountant, lawyer, or offshore account to hide from their responsibilities) has to cover the income shortfall.

What the heck are you talking about man? All my staff are students in high school and early post secondary. If you're 35 and making minimum wage, that's your own damn problem and tax payers problem, not mine as a business owner

Btw, I'm not sure where you guys are getting all this bs from but I still have to pay tax just like any regular citizen

[kr4l]

Originally Posted by MarkyMark

So you want to keep someone else's wages the same for life so you can continue to reap the benefits of it. If that extra 5 dollars a meal really hurts you, then take your own advice and go collect pop cans after work to make up the difference, no one owes you anything. Work harder.

If you call working hard reaping benefits, then yes.

The issue with everyone's opinions here is that it's all based on different situations and age groups. That's why its so 2 sided. If you guys took an age group, then it would be much more clear

An example would be, a sous chef with training and say 5 years experience. Say he makes $20 hour and works his ass off. They hire a 16 year old dishwasher that now makes $15 hour. No bills at all

Then you have a 35 year old stocking shelves at superstore. $15 hour. Lives on his own

[Hondaracer]

another problem i have is until the system catches up as a whole, what is the incentive for some bum to work harder or even maintain a job they have 'experiance' with ?

a guy who has some half ass skill in construction who might know some processes like form work etc. why the hell would he continue to bust his ass in a physical job that takes a toll for $16-$18 an hour when he could go smoke crack all day and drive a lordco car delivering parts for $1 less?

no incentive for the bottom feeders to learn skills or progress when their ceiling is now closer to their floor.

[MarkyMark]

Originally Posted by kr4l

If you call working hard reaping benefits, then yes.

The issue with everyone's opinions here is that it's all based on different situations and age groups. That's why its so 2 sided. If you guys took an age group, then it would be much more clear

An example would be, a sous chef with training and say 5 years experience. Say he makes $20 hour and works his ass off. They hire a 16 year old dishwasher that now makes $15 hour.

Who's to say someone making minimum wage doesn't work hard? From my experience, the more money you make the easier your job actually gets. If working hard only goes by the amount of hours you put in then sure, small business owners work harder than anyone.

Not everyone making minimum wage is a teenager. Some are in their 50s who perhaps lost their job in a dying industry and had no choice because they have no other skills. College wasn't a necessity back in their day. They have a family to support, no time or money to get schooling to find another $20+/h job. I don't automatically assume that the 50 year old lady at McDonald's that gives me my coffee every morning is some loser who just never had any drive to be something else in her life, who knows what happened that lead her to be in that spot.