Canadian politics thread

[Hondaracer]

Go to Surrey memorial ER

See all the “locals” clogging it up.

[westopher]

Less incoming people=less money paid in taxes=less money for services. Pretty simple math.
Hell I agree with you immigration was far too substantial, but it’s not going to work the way you think it will.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

As I’ve said before, raise taxes to the Scandinavian model

Do you honestly think Canada would be able to take those taxes and get us to a comparable level with similar outcomes? I don’t. When have we ever utilized the money we have effectively? The answer is giving more money to he frivolously squandered?

I’d be open to trying it, but I think the vast majority of the population would not be, because they understand how completely incompetent everyone involved it.

See: Trudeau’s “gift” cheque promotion. We couldn’t even give FREE MONEY away correctly..

This is such an unserious opinion - "I support X but since I don't believe in it I don't actually support it".

Sweden didn't happen in a day, a year or a decade and if we wanted to change to that way of living we'd be taking decades to try to get there and we'd have ups and downs along the way. Sweden hasn't been all rainbows and unicorns over the years - it wasn't that long ago that their way of life and way of spending was deemed unsustainable and unrealistic (they went through a brutal financial crisis in the 90s - far worse than ours) and now they are held as one of the highlights of good governance and operations.

The Nordic Model (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model) has been in place for nearly a hundred years - do you expect that we'd try it for 5 years and if it didn't work you'd throw in the towels and say the Libs are losers? This is a 50+ year journey.

A large part of why the Nordic Model works is trust in government and public services - citizens let the government do its work and they let them plan for the future. Norway's Sovereign fund is an example of that - Alberta (and Canada) could have done the same thing but guess who didn't want that (Conservatives!) and guess what we've got instead? (Nothing!). Guess who keeps fighting against government and causing the public to trust it less? Conservatives! If we want these things we actually have to let them build these things and we actually have to give them the timelines to make it work.

Actual incompetence has been far less a reason for the lack of trust in public institutions than the present day Conservative approach of complaining rather than solving.

[mikemhg]

No one wants to mention why the Nordic model has worked (at least up until recently).

Having a homogenous society. It's much easier to have high taxes and socialist systems in place when the users are people you share a common culture with. When everyone is an "Erickson", those high taxes and seeing people utilizing the government system makes that tax burden easier of a pill to swallow.

We're not a homogenous society, massive immigration here has changed that immensely.

Sweden is having this same issue since their similar ramp ups in immigration going back to 2015.

[GS8]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Go to Surrey memorial ER

See all the “locals” clogging it up.

My sister in law has legit PTSD from Surrey Memorial. She almost bled to death from their negligence.

EDIT: 30-50 years ago, immigrants had it tough to come into this country and when they did, it was their crowning achievement in life and they wear their new identity with pride and admiration.

Nowadays, calling yourself Canadian is akin to being a racist for some reason. Like wtf?

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by supafamous

This is such an unserious opinion - "I support X but since I don't believe in it I don't actually support it".

Sweden didn't happen in a day, a year or a decade and if we wanted to change to that way of living we'd be taking decades to try to get there and we'd have ups and downs along the way. Sweden hasn't been all rainbows and unicorns over the years - it wasn't that long ago that their way of life and way of spending was deemed unsustainable and unrealistic (they went through a brutal financial crisis in the 90s - far worse than ours) and now they are held as one of the highlights of good governance and operations.

The Nordic Model (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model) has been in place for nearly a hundred years - do you expect that we'd try it for 5 years and if it didn't work you'd throw in the towels and say the Libs are losers? This is a 50+ year journey.

A large part of why the Nordic Model works is trust in government and public services - citizens let the government do its work and they let them plan for the future. Norway's Sovereign fund is an example of that - Alberta (and Canada) could have done the same thing but guess who didn't want that (Conservatives!) and guess what we've got instead? (Nothing!). Guess who keeps fighting against government and causing the public to trust it less? Conservatives! If we want these things we actually have to let them build these things and we actually have to give them the timelines to make it work.

Actual incompetence has been far less a reason for the lack of trust in public institutions than the present day Conservative approach of complaining rather than solving.

Oh yea.. if the liberals had free rein (weird.. like the last 11 years?) surely we’d be a utopia.. please.

The people’s party have left the “people” using food banks and in homeless shelters.

The party whose primary concern was social issues, made everything worse under their guidance. Surely with more money, they can right the ship! A decade of failed attempts and wasted money. For the majority of their time in power, they had total autonomy and still failed miserably.

At the end of this term, this party will have governed largely uncontested for 15 years. As with most things, people want to see results and unfulfilled promises don’t really build trust in govt.

The bottom line is, we’re never gonna be those places. And the most likely scenario as I’ve always said is things getting worse.

[68style]

How much better could YOUR life be?

You talk like you're living in destitution or so many people are... the only real problem in the lower mainland is housing costs (which does drive some people into destitution or at least desperation) and a bit of over-immigration without provincial adjustments to healthcare and other infrastructure (probably cuz everyone wants to live in BC if possible). NDP has fucking fumbled healthcare so badly it's not even funny and I'm generally a fan of them, but that is a blatant sore spot they've done very little if nothing to address.

There's no such thing as utopia, so if that's your goal then you're going to be sadly disappointed through your entire lifetime.

[Hondaracer]

I could step out my door and not see homeless people begging for shit? lol

Of course my life is easy compared to most, but societal norms we have here obviously have an impact on everyone. Feels pretty fucking gross seeing strung out drug addicts laying up next to some fancy restaurant I’m going to go spend $500 at, like the inequality in our society is just gonna turn into a shit storm real quick. And guess what? The “good guy” liberals who are here for society exponentially exasperated these issues.

Cost of living isn’t just housing over your head, it’s your entire life. If we can’t solve these problems ASAP all the shit I’m talking about is going to get wayyyy worse. Every community in this country will have a DTES or worse.

Like.. without getting into this “omg this problem is so much more complicated than X” can we, Canada, a first world country not have tens of thousands of homeless people?

[68style]

At least in Canada from my observations between 2 cities... almost all costs are equivalent EXCEPT housing.

Insurance (home and car)
Car prices
Groceries
Eating out
Drinks
Admission to things

It's all about even in Calgary as Richmond/Vancouver tbh... we do save 7% on bigger purchases here to be sure without PST but other stuff evens out quite a bit.

But when a condo can be had for $250k instead of $500k+ or a townhouse can be had for $400k instead of $1.1M+ and a basic house in a nice neighbourhood is genersouly $700k instead of $1.5M+........ that's fucking massive.

Even on the bottom end with a bachelor suite between both cities you're automatically $300k in the hole in the lower mainland compared to Cowtown. That amount of money mortgaged let alone qualifying for said mortgage, cannot be overlooked in al the $50k-ish jobs out there all over the place. Even an $80k income earner cannot qualify for more than a $300k mortgage nowadays,

[Hondaracer]

Well yea.. I think that’s why Calgary consistently ranks high on the city list because far less of your income is tied up in housing

[68style]

It's funny though, it makes you a bit judgy... like if I hear someone I know say they're struggling in BC I get it like it's pretty rough, when I was single even I had a tough time and I was in the market way earlier than most people...

but when I hear people I know in regular jobs here complaining they can't afford stuff I kind of suck some wind in and think to myself wtf you need to sit down with a financial planner or write your shit out cuz it's almost impossible to be fucked here unless you and your spouse are like walmart greeters or something and even then.

But a pretty quick overview of those people quickly shows they go to mexico twice a year and have a new truck and a new SUV and a high end home theatre setup yadda yadda yadda... just really poor fiscal responsibility.

[noclue]

This blew me away but there are a shocking amount of people that will take a loan or credit card debt to go to an mexico all inclusive for a week. YOLO

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Oh yea.. if the liberals had free rein (weird.. like the last 11 years?) surely we’d be a utopia.. please.

The people’s party have left the “people” using food banks and in homeless shelters.

The party whose primary concern was social issues, made everything worse under their guidance. Surely with more money, they can right the ship! A decade of failed attempts and wasted money. For the majority of their time in power, they had total autonomy and still failed miserably.

At the end of this term, this party will have governed largely uncontested for 15 years. As with most things, people want to see results and unfulfilled promises don’t really build trust in govt.

The bottom line is, we’re never gonna be those places. And the most likely scenario as I’ve always said is things getting worse.

You're so hung up on your hatred for Trudeau that you can't even think about bigger picture things - any time anyone discusses progressive ideas it's "Well Trudeau sucked so it'll never work".

How do you think we got here since 1867? Was it all rainbows and unicorns? No. Did any one party control all the good ideas? No. Did we make some mistakes along the way? Yes. Did we have some less than great Prime Ministers? Yep but we also had some good and great ones.

Most of Canada's history has been of progressive politics whether it's Mulroney or Pearson or Diefenbaker or Chretien. It's only in the last 20-25 years that the Right has gone nuts and divided the country - if the nuts would shut up or go away maybe the Cons could have offered a credible alternative to Trudeau or Carney (or maybe Carney runs as a Conservative like Harper asked him to).

I don't think the Trudeau era was a good era but it's certainly not as terrible as you consistently make it out to be but you go ahead and be miserable.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by 68style

NDP has fucking fumbled healthcare so badly it's not even funny and I'm generally a fan of them, but that is a blatant sore spot they've done very little if nothing to address.

Have they? I have a few healthcare workers as friends - a family doctor, a few nurses and I recently had to use the ER in Revelstoke and while things aren't hunky dory it seems alright. My family doctor friend is happy with the changes the NDP made around pay and the nurses seem reasonably satisfied - like they don't complain anywhere as much as friends in other job types for what is a really tough job. There's of course shitty things in health but it doesn't seem like a disaster.

My recent uses of health services were generally pretty good - a bit workman like (not fancy) but I can't complain. My aunt recently had to undergo emergency heart surgery (ambulance ride, 11 hour surgery etc) and it appears the system does work (but not without flaws).

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

No one wants to mention why the Nordic model has worked (at least up until recently).

Having a homogenous society. It's much easier to have high taxes and socialist systems in place when the users are people you share a common culture with. When everyone is an "Erickson", those high taxes and seeing people utilizing the government system makes that tax burden easier of a pill to swallow.

We're not a homogenous society, massive immigration here has changed that immensely.

Sweden is having this same issue since their similar ramp ups in immigration going back to 2015.

Yep, same goes for Japan to a large extent. They have maintained their social fabric by keeping outsiders out (when I visited Japan, it was obvious that minorities only got to work shitty jobs).

When societies become more diverse you end up empowering the racists - the Conservatives have a new way to create fear in the populace by using the unknown to rile up their base. It's gross.

[Hondaracer]

lol oh yea.. the completely failed immigration policies have nothing to do with people’s perceptions of society

TFW, Indian truck drivers, sky train stations looking like Mumbai with “students” on their way to sham colleges

Those policies had -nothing- to do with people’s perceptions right?

It was “racist” to question the garbage immigration policies until it wasn’t.

Again, it wasn’t the conservatives who had the public form these opinions.

[Hondaracer]

Originally Posted by supafamous

You're so hung up on your hatred for Trudeau that you can't even think about bigger picture things - any time anyone discusses progressive ideas it's "Well Trudeau sucked so it'll never work".

How do you think we got here since 1867? Was it all rainbows and unicorns? No. Did any one party control all the good ideas? No. Did we make some mistakes along the way? Yes. Did we have some less than great Prime Ministers? Yep but we also had some good and great ones.

Most of Canada's history has been of progressive politics whether it's Mulroney or Pearson or Diefenbaker or Chretien. It's only in the last 20-25 years that the Right has gone nuts and divided the country - if the nuts would shut up or go away maybe the Cons could have offered a credible alternative to Trudeau or Carney (or maybe Carney runs as a Conservative like Harper asked him to).

I don't think the Trudeau era was a good era but it's certainly not as terrible as you consistently make it out to be but you go ahead and be miserable.

So let’s take out the dental care program and the anti-scab legislation which were both the NDP’s parting gift to Canada

Can you name one other liberal peice of legislation that actually had a lasting impact on this country? The child care benefit? Marijuana legalization?

Is there anything else? In an 11 year span, those are the TWO? 3 terms, 11 years, those 2 things?

My point, as it always will be, is the liberal party, the party that is suppose to be “for the people” as opposed to the evil conservatives, frankly don’t give two shits about the people.

- record homelessness
- record household debt
- record food bank usage
- record youth unemployment
- hospitals shutting down ER’s consistently

Fuck yea, let’s keep trying this out

[GLOW]

Originally Posted by 68style

At least in Canada from my observations between 2 cities... almost all costs are equivalent EXCEPT housing.

Insurance (home and car)
Car prices
Groceries
Eating out
Drinks
Admission to things

It's all about even in Calgary as Richmond/Vancouver tbh... we do save 7% on bigger purchases here to be sure without PST but other stuff evens out quite a bit.

But when a condo can be had for $250k instead of $500k+ or a townhouse can be had for $400k instead of $1.1M+ and a basic house in a nice neighbourhood is genersouly $700k instead of $1.5M+........ that's fucking massive.

Even on the bottom end with a bachelor suite between both cities you're automatically $300k in the hole in the lower mainland compared to Cowtown. That amount of money mortgaged let alone qualifying for said mortgage, cannot be overlooked in al the $50k-ish jobs out there all over the place. Even an $80k income earner cannot qualify for more than a $300k mortgage nowadays,

how's the economy/job market though? i lost touch with a HS friend that lives there but when oil industry went belly up pre-pandemic, i recall he had like a 3-5 year dark age where he was like in finance/economics for the gas industry and basically had a work at costco for a couple years to make ends meet.

[Traum]

It's really kind of pointless to argue with Honda on this, and I agree that Turd, on the whole, had done more things that did not help Canada or made things worse. But his prime ministership isn't a complete shxt show like what we are seeing with Trump's second term so far.

It is generally agreed that Turd has done more for indigenious communities than most other PMs in recent history or otherwise. Of course, ultimately he still hadn't done enough bcos the work is just too massive, but on providing clean drinking water to indigenious communities, IMO the work that Turd has done is already pretty good -- comparing the number of (indigenious) communites that had drinking water advisories at the beginning of Turd's term to the time when he resigned, he had eliminated about 2/3 of problem. By this CTV account:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/arti...many-are-left/

There were 93 communities with 133 DWA in Oct 2015. By March 2025, there were only 35 long term drinking water advisories in 33 reserves. Yes, it took 10 years instead of the 5 that he promised. And if you're someone who still had a DWA, of course you'd say nothing has changed. At the same time, for those living in the other 2/3 of the communities, the change is literally life changing. And compared to other PMs, none of them has done nearly as much on the DWA front.

Turd upped the game on our national school food program. Yes, the program is still far from perfect. And it really isn't new -- I think most provinces already has something like that available in some form or other? But Turd did make the program noticeable bigger and giving it more publicity. I have always been a strong believer of investing in children and their education, and this goes right up that alley.

Turd went through the COVID years with us. Yes, there were a lot of screw ups and stuff, esp in the beginning when he should have cracked down on border control and heeded to the early warnings. But on that front, there were only very few countries that did a good job in the early part of the pandemic -- Taiwan obviously came to mind as a shining example, despite the harsh measures/restrictions they imposed.

At the same time, Turd did well on the economic assistance during the hardest times of the pandemic, as well as his investments on COVID vaccines (Jason would have a field day with me here if he could still post LOL). IIRC, Canada did quite well coming out of COVID compared to other countries in the world. (The fact that we bungled it later on is another story.)

So like I was saying earlier -- Turd is far from perfect, and overall I'd still give him a failing grade. But his legacy isn't the complete POS that you make it out to be.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

Is there anything else? In an 11 year span, those are the TWO? 3 terms, 11 years, those 2 things?

What Traum said. If I rank the long term PMs since 1980 it'd go Chretien, Mulroney, Harper, Martin, Trudeau. Chretien is the best of the bunch by a mile and Trudeau gets a failing grade but it's absolutely not the disaster you describe it as.

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

My point, as it always will be, is the liberal party, the party that is suppose to be “for the people” as opposed to the evil conservatives, frankly don’t give two shits about the people.

The Liberals have been in power for 85 out of Canada's 125 years - who do you think put in place universal health care, who created the CPP, and who created the Charter of Rights? This country exists, for better or worse, because of the Liberal party. (Conservatives, prior to 2000-ish, were pretty good people though and played a big hand in things)

Yeah, the last 11 years have not been very good years but your hatred for Trudeau and the Liberals colours any ability for you to think rationally about politics.

[mikemhg]

I'm no Trudeau lover but I can spit out a few policies he's done that were fairly good:

-Legalized marijuana
-Canada Child Benefit
-$10 Day Care
-Dropping OAS/GIS back to 65 instead of 67 (fuck you Harper)
-National Pharmacare

Cry all you want but that certainly made a difference for a large number of people.

[Great68]

Legalizing cannabis was absolutely monumental. It's our generation's repeal of prohibition.

[VRYALT3R3D]

Just LOL at the liberals here romanticizing Trudeau. Like bro, he resigned because he was doing so poorly.

There is a reason why in the last election the conservative party was strongly favoured by young people. The liberals have failed Canadians on the cost of living and housing crisis. The liberals have simply lost the confidence of young voters.

Why young voters flocked to Canada's Conservatives
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cd6j9z3dqg8o

[Badhobz]

Originally Posted by Great68

Legalizing cannabis was absolutely monumental. It's our generation's repeal of prohibition.

Really ? I don’t think it did jack squat. I don’t see any weed money fuelling Canadian prosperity, things are more expensive than ever.

Nor do I see stoners everywhere. When fent is so cheap and easy to get, weed doesn’t hold a candle and at the prices they want, why bother. All the real druggies are out doing harder stuff. Weed is pedestrian in comparison. Legalize crack and coke… that’s where the moneys at.

[noclue]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

I'm no Trudeau lover but I can spit out a few policies he's done that were fairly good:

-Legalized marijuana
-Canada Child Benefit
-$10 Day Care
-Dropping OAS/GIS back to 65 instead of 67 (fuck you Harper)
-National Pharmacare

Cry all you want but that certainly made a difference for a large number of people.

Thats fine and all but who’s gonna pay for it with our ever increasing deficit?