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Something to keep in mind when you see coverage of the nutjob protesters There's lots of "gaslighting" going on (that's a new term for me) attempting to make the "movement" look bigger than it is. The question is, who stands to gain from it? If we can answer that, we may know where it's coming from. Oddly, a lot of the campaign being pushed is done by a single entity in Florida, registering domains for every single state, and starting Facebook groups for all of them. Someone on Reddit figured this out after some of the domains were registered without anonymous enabled. Appears to be people related to a gun lobby group. So who is behind this group? :considered: If you want to get into conspiracy theories, here's a potentially legitimate one to look into. Instead of blaming Bill Gates and "the rockerfellers" for everything Kappa |
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For instance, recent studies have shown that it's not just the lungs that may incur damage but also the heart and kidneys. https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coron...eart-1.5536809 It's just hard to gauge what to do when you don't know exactly what you're up against. I do agree with some of your points though. And I hope you don't go on another "hiatus". I value the differing perspectives. Even if I don't agree with them entirely. I'm sure there are many others here who feel the same way. |
So 75% of the deaths are over the age of 65 so far... Gotta day, still like those odds. During the press conference today with trump Somone mentioned a study where they were theorizing when the virus arrived in the states and the amount of people who were asymptomatic could he incredibly high relative to those who show symptoms and the overall mortality rate. They said the number of deaths relative to the number actually infected could be the same if not lower than the seasonal flu mortality rate. Again, just some study that was mentioned and they didn’t have much of a follow up but interesting nonetheless. I’ve looked for the study and haven’t found it yet but there are literally dozens of articles published by credible sources that say up to 80% of carriers could be asymptomatic. |
That actually wouldn't be that big of a number when put into perspective. There are nearly 800,000 confirmed cases in the US. Assuming that all of those cases are symptomatic, and that's 20% of all infected, the number of asymptomatic would be 4,000,000. Not much more than 1% of the population. |
In Boston a sample of 378 homeless were tested, over half tested positive, and ZERO showed any symptoms. This brings up a very interesting angle of potential ineffectiveness of the virus I. Some cases, inconclusive numbers, etc. The other possibility is the tests were just all wrong. |
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Of the 200 or so tested 20 tested positive but only 2 showed symptoms I believe |
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Is because it "wasn't/isn't that bad" BECAUSE of all the shit we did. The choice was to partially shut down the economy and pay back for it long term, or literally millions die (and NOT just old people) possibly shutting down not just the economy, but society in general. We chose lives over money, with the knowledge that if we didn't, money would have been fucked even harder in the end. If someone wants to have the opposite "perspective" fine, we can just disagree. Thankfully those people are a very small minority in Canada at least, and don't have the ability to do anything towards it that would harm the rest of us. SeemsGood I can't go without saying that I find it rather mindblowing that a purported healthcare worker has this point of view, and literally says there's an inherent value of lives, inferring that some lives are worth more than others. Thank GOD this person has no actual power... Because holy crap. |
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https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWEUTPHX0AclFp4.jpg -30usd/barrel...they ran outta storage! but i filled up chevron 94 for buck 23 today :seriously: |
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Alright. Well that's billions that don't go to new hospitals and equipment, providing for the poor, etc. But hey decisions dont have any other collateral damage in skinnypupps mind. All decisions only have one outcome in his world. Hey if you had the choice to either save a child or a 80 year old with end stage cancer, lets save the 80 year old cause all lives are equal. Why should the child with a bright future be worth any more than the 80 year old who is a year tops from the grave? :rukidding: |
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And policymakers do this all the time. You have to put value on things that don't have value. |
There is so much wrong with putting value on lives based on what identifies them, be it age, race, whatever. I can't even wrap my head around what would make someone think like that. I'll just leave these stats here though, if you continue to think it's OK for certain groups of the population to die so you can make more money... well keep this in mind before you speak out. I'm not asking anyone to go back on "hiatus" but just gain some knowledge before you write. It is so, so SO wrong to say what you are saying. :fulloffuck: https://i.imgur.com/AG6162f.png So remember, you're not just "letting all the old people die" (and people don't get into too much trouble for being ageist) but you're letting most black people die as well. I don't know what the stats are like in Canada, but it would likely lean towards poverty. Do we know how many First Nations communities have been hit by it? This is making my head spin, I gotta go get lunch |
Lives have already had a value put on them previously. In fact it’s peoples jobs to do so. Victims of 9/11 got a $200,000 cheque for their loved ones, and other similar acts, car accidents, negligence, etc. Gets a value assigned It’s cold, it’s tough to accept. But honestly as time goes by it would be innapropriate to not assign value to one life over another. If it got to the point where it was so bad and you were giving ventilators to 75/80/90 year olds over a 25 year old, hell, even if they were a drug addict. That’s assanine. And don’t ask me about my own loved ones who are older because my dad who recently just turned 60 went out of his way to say that if push came to shove he’d be willing to be offed if it meant a gain for society as he has always been of the mind that once you become a strain you aren’t much good other than sentimental value lol.. |
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It not just based on age it's based on wealth. Some rich people already own ventilators. If you have money age won't mater. |
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African Americans also suffer from diabetes at eight times the rate of whites. And cardiovascular disease at six times. While I'm sure there are several others, those are definitely factors that attribute to the fatality rate of this disease. |
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Doctors don't do aggressive treatments with pneumonia if you're over 60 in BC. I think our death rates are lower is due to our experiences with ARDS and large amount of cases of pneumonia with seniors. If you walk into Richmond ER, you will see atleast 7-8 beds with seniors on CPAPs. Life and death in the ICU I've seen a drug addict, a well mannered and educated gentlemen, a homeless person and an autistic adult without the ability to talk in the ICU. Doctors and nurses don't care, they treat everyone with respect and the same amount of care. They will use all the tricks in their book and the resources available to try to bring the person back to being healthy. |
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And how exactly is it wrong, really? Is the life of someone without a job less important? No, money isn't everything, but you do need it to sustain life. It's less apparent, but domestic violence and suicides can be more common. How do you value those lives? Or is it "out of sight, out of mind" for you? I am not agreeing with open everything fully and just roll the dice. Rather, it's a compromise - you open back up a bit with protective measures so some people can get back to work and feed their families, etc. while we keep casualty at a reasonable level. Remember, we are talking about macro here. As long as we can show it's a net gain for the society, so be it. On a micro level, I don't wish anyone harm, but it is what it is. Putting values on lives is not only done in this situation. Changes to traffic controls, for example, also have to put value on people's lives and time to determine if there will be a net gain or loss. |
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So he's really saying we should let old people die, which is bad enough (because when is it ever good to marginalize a group based on something they can't control?), but specifically old black people in America (and in Singapore this would be old S. Asian people) all die. So he can make more money. Fuck. That. You can dilute it into meta arguments all you want, I think it's atrocious what's being said. |
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There is something called QALY. Go google it. The average value of one year of "perfect health" is around $100000. Any intervention that costs under that amount is considered cost effective, anything over the government is unlikely to fund. Sorry, the fact of life is even in public healthcare systems there are limits to how much they are willing to pay before they pull the plug. |
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https://i.imgur.com/AG6162f.png Latinos earn less personal income, on average, than African Americans. And Asians earn more than whites. Data doesn't seem to corroborate that theory. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pers..._United_States |
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