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Old 11-20-2010, 06:16 PM   #3626
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I began working out with one of the known major push exercises such as the BB Bench Press. I'm sure people can "fuck" their shoulders but does that really say to people that it is a bad exercise? Don't get me wrong. I know it is possible to hurt yourself and that goes for all exercises actually. But with proper training and knowledge I wouldn't neglect this workout in my routine at all.
It's possible to hurt yourself with any exercise if you don't do it right. Hell, you can hurt yourself getting out of bed if you twist the wrong way.

But to compare movements like deadlift or squat or even curls to the barbell press is just stupid. The BB press is an unnatural motion that our bodies aren't intended to do. Same goes for exercises like the bench dip (whatever they call it when you go between two benches with a plate on your legs), behind-the-back rows, etc. Yes you can do them, yes you will get gains from them, and some people can do them more easily than others. But the point is, you are forcing your body to rotate in ways that it wasn't supposed to. That is an indisputable fact.

I am sure the exaggerated use of the word "useless" is what set people off into blind ignorant rage mode. I don't mean useless, as you can of course get gains from it, and a lot of people lift really heavy weights with these unnatural movements (as you can see in Halo's video). But the amount of focus this one exercise gets, for no other reason than ego stroking, is my main point.
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Old 11-20-2010, 07:38 PM   #3627
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The BB press is an unnatural motion that our bodies aren't intended to do. Same goes for exercises like the bench dip (whatever they call it when you go between two benches with a plate on your legs), behind-the-back rows, etc. Yes you can do them, yes you will get gains from them, and some people can do them more easily than others. But the point is, you are forcing your body to rotate in ways that it wasn't supposed to. That is an indisputable fact.
Your opinion would hold more weight if you could quote some sort of reputable source who feels the same way as you about barbell benching.

Not trolling, just saying.
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Old 11-20-2010, 07:58 PM   #3628
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Your opinion would hold more weight if you could quote some sort of reputable source who feels the same way as you about barbell benching.

Not trolling, just saying.
I could spend the next hour going across all the big articles written by well respected writers like Cressey, MacDonald, Hyght, Waterbury, Polliquin, Thibeadeau, etc.

Or I can just say "google it"

They all say the same thing.

Here's an article I came across just recently that you can take a look at.
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The barbell flat bench press is considered the king of upper body exercises by many old school bodybuilders and there are so many schools of thought regarding this exercise's effectiveness that I don't really want to begin to stir that particular pot.

As it is, I've already provided enough controversy fodder in this article to last me until 2012. What I will say about the flat bench press is that keeping a "high" chest and locked, retracted scapulae during the lift will go a long way in helping to avoid lots of shoulder issues from what some consider "the upper body squat."

But what if your shoulders still flare up even with good form, moderate weights, and reasonable volume? Then it's definitely time to consider retiring the traditional flat bench and check out alternatives. Some of the better options:

Decline bench press — There's virtually no shoulder involvement in the exercise, and you can hit the sternal pectoralis (what some might call the "lower chest") really damn hard.

Reverse-grip bench press — Basically the same as the standard bench press set-up, but turn your hands so that the palms are facing towards your head instead of your feet. This will externally rotate the whole arm, which puts the shoulders in a much more favorable position for the lift, decreasing injury potential without compromising range of motion,

Pin press — If you're a tall lifter, or a short lifter with orangutan-esque arms, pin presses may not give you the full range of motion that you'd get from a traditional bench press, but it will allow you to move the weight using strict muscular contractions with zero momentum. You can tap into a ton of muscle when you move a weight from a static stop.

It's also a test of true strength, since there's no involvement of the stretch shortening cycle to change the direction of the bar. Overall, the pin press is a good option, even though it means you have to sacrifice a couple of inches at the bottom of your shoulder-unfriendly bench press.
As you can see, he had to put it much more delicately.. Otherwise he'd have to put up with a LOT more flaming than I did here!
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Old 11-20-2010, 08:29 PM   #3629
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Can you post the other links?

Is this what you're referring to: http://ericcressey.com/should-pitchers-bench-press ?
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Old 11-20-2010, 09:11 PM   #3630
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I wasn't referring to any specific posts, just what I have gleaned from reading over the years. Some are more pro-bench than others (knowing that 99% of their clients will insist on it) others are totally against it. Just do some reading.

And for fuck sake if you do barbell presses, just make sure to do them right.
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Old 11-20-2010, 10:56 PM   #3631
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so if you lift like a retard, you can hurt yourself on BB bench press



sounds like every other excersise we do, you do it wrong you get hurt

good chat everyone, im glad we cleared up this mystery
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Old 11-20-2010, 11:01 PM   #3632
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the very definition of not getting it.
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Old 11-20-2010, 11:12 PM   #3633
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Ouch. Gonna have to try these next time I do bulgarian split squats

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIwaDkhVHwo
and how is this a `natural` movement...

if squats and deads are `natural` movements, then no one would have to be taught how to correctly do them when they first start off.. no exercise that is done with correct form is ever done in real life... it is the way we are taught to do them with the least risk of injury through scientific studies.
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Old 11-20-2010, 11:13 PM   #3634
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The BB BP exercise is one of those were previous poster correctly aluded to- its really a stat that you tell other guys. I don't know how many times I've been asked what I bench when I tell people I weightlift.

The PL BB is safer however. It requires a strong foundation and keeps your shoulders in a position that is in better position to press (in a straight line, elbows tucked, scapula pulled tight together).

I've never really BB and been more of a Military Press guy due to Weightlifting and my heavy involvement in sports. Need to keep the shoulders healthy. BUT, interestly, I do find that there is carryover from my Military Press/Push press to my BP. The oppposit is not true.
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Old 11-21-2010, 12:45 AM   #3635
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and how is this a `natural` movement...

if squats and deads are `natural` movements, then no one would have to be taught how to correctly do them when they first start off.. no exercise that is done with correct form is ever done in real life... it is the way we are taught to do them with the least risk of injury through scientific studies.
Do you see any joints being stretched backwards, or rotating the wrong direction in those videos, or in squats or deadlifts?

Nope, me neither. Not sure what your point was there... Besides proving yourself wrong
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Old 11-21-2010, 08:44 AM   #3636
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so pumped for tonights workout, chest,legs,triceps
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Old 11-21-2010, 09:53 AM   #3637
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make your own gainer. don't take that diabetes in a bottle.

homo milk, peanut butter, bananas, protein powder, coconut oil, rolled oats.
I want to try this!
How much of each ingredient should I use?
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Old 11-21-2010, 10:16 AM   #3638
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Do you see any joints being stretched backwards, or rotating the wrong direction in those videos, or in squats or deadlifts?

Nope, me neither. Not sure what your point was there... Besides proving yourself wrong
I was merely asking for your definition of "natural". You were basing your point on the actual joints and surroudning connective tissue, I was referring to the hardwired motor patterns someone is naturally accustomed with, without having ever hit the gym.

And as for joints stretching backwards? All your joints are capable of moving "backwards". It is called flexion and extension. Rotating in the wrong direction? So your ball and socket joint in your hip isn't capable of rotating in all directions?
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Old 11-21-2010, 01:21 PM   #3639
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It's possible to hurt yourself with any exercise if you don't do it right. Hell, you can hurt yourself getting out of bed if you twist the wrong way.

But to compare movements like deadlift or squat or even curls to the barbell press is just stupid. The BB press is an unnatural motion that our bodies aren't intended to do. Same goes for exercises like the bench dip (whatever they call it when you go between two benches with a plate on your legs), behind-the-back rows, etc. Yes you can do them, yes you will get gains from them, and some people can do them more easily than others. But the point is, you are forcing your body to rotate in ways that it wasn't supposed to. That is an indisputable fact.

I am sure the exaggerated use of the word "useless" is what set people off into blind ignorant rage mode. I don't mean useless, as you can of course get gains from it, and a lot of people lift really heavy weights with these unnatural movements (as you can see in Halo's video). But the amount of focus this one exercise gets, for no other reason than ego stroking, is my main point.
Don't get me wrong, I understand all your points.

The only thing I disagree is your definition of the BB Bench being a "ego stroking" or "dudebro exercise" or "dudebro scoring meter." Lol. The exercise works when done correctly was my point.

Other than that, I'll officially call it the dudebro lift. Haha!
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Old 11-21-2010, 05:16 PM   #3640
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95x6 for incline DB bench
ooooooooooooooooooooo yea
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Old 11-21-2010, 07:04 PM   #3641
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After a weekend off, recovering from deadlifts, I am really looking forward to today.

Rows, DB overhead press, squats. Fun! I might even do some curls!
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Old 11-21-2010, 08:30 PM   #3642
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fuck i love doing triceps after chest
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Old 11-21-2010, 10:41 PM   #3643
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Deadlift day, I wish everyone around me wouldn't stop what they're doing and stare when I lift anything over 350...
For me, lifting heavier without stims always takes a lot of mental preparation.

Started doing power cleans again, they feel really great too. Next week I'll try going heavier, 135 is getting light.

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Old 11-21-2010, 10:53 PM   #3644
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didn't want to make a new thread so I thought I'd ask in here....

anyone know more about sleeping? Is it important to get 8 hours at once? Is 4 hours x 2 as in lets say 1 am to 5 am sleep then 2 pm to 6 pm sleep the same as 1 am to 9 am?
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Old 11-21-2010, 11:08 PM   #3645
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didn't want to make a new thread so I thought I'd ask in here....

anyone know more about sleeping? Is it important to get 8 hours at once? Is 4 hours x 2 as in lets say 1 am to 5 am sleep then 2 pm to 6 pm sleep the same as 1 am to 9 am?

I believe that it's different for every person. You also have to take into consideration how deep of a sleep cycle you go into.

http://helpguide.org/life/sleeping.htm

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Deep sleep

The most damaging effects of sleep deprivation are from inadequate deep sleep. Deep sleep is a time when the body repairs itself and builds up energy for the day ahead. It plays a major role in maintaining your health, stimulating growth and development, repairing muscles and tissues, and boosting your immune system. In order to wake up energized and refreshed, getting quality deep sleep is key.

REM sleep

Just as deep sleep renews the body, REM sleep renews the mind. REM sleep plays a key role in learning and memory. During REM sleep, your brain consolidates and processes the information youíve learned during the day, forms neural connections that strengthen memory, and replenishes its supply of neurotransmitters, including feel-good chemicals such as serotonin and dopamine that boost your mood during the day.

To get more mind and mood-boosting REM sleep, try sleeping an extra 30 minutes to an hour in the morning, when REM sleep stages are longer. Improving your overall sleep will also increase your REM sleep. If you arenít getting enough deep sleep, your body will try to make it up first, at the expense of REM sleep.
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Old 11-22-2010, 11:15 AM   #3646
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any1 have good ways of increasing stamina and endurance for cardio??
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Old 11-22-2010, 11:35 AM   #3647
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Myofusion choc mint on whey cheap

29.99 pretty good deal if you don't mind the flavor
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Old 11-22-2010, 11:50 AM   #3648
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It's possible to hurt yourself with any exercise if you don't do it right. Hell, you can hurt yourself getting out of bed if you twist the wrong way.

But to compare movements like deadlift or squat or even curls to the barbell press is just stupid. The BB press is an unnatural motion that our bodies aren't intended to do. Same goes for exercises like the bench dip (whatever they call it when you go between two benches with a plate on your legs), behind-the-back rows, etc. Yes you can do them, yes you will get gains from them, and some people can do them more easily than others. But the point is, you are forcing your body to rotate in ways that it wasn't supposed to. That is an indisputable fact.

I am sure the exaggerated use of the word "useless" is what set people off into blind ignorant rage mode. I don't mean useless, as you can of course get gains from it, and a lot of people lift really heavy weights with these unnatural movements (as you can see in Halo's video). But the amount of focus this one exercise gets, for no other reason than ego stroking, is my main point.
If you wrote this instead about a page ago, there would have not been such a shit storm

SkinnyPupp usually i agree with your statements (the common misconception of fats NOT making you fat in particular) and they are insightful, but I think most would agree here you come off a little brash when sharing your opinion
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Old 11-22-2010, 01:45 PM   #3649
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any1 have good ways of increasing stamina and endurance for cardio??
do it every day or take the easy way and take high stim preworkout =P
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Old 11-22-2010, 04:30 PM   #3650
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If you wrote this instead about a page ago, there would have not been such a shit storm

SkinnyPupp usually i agree with your statements (the common misconception of fats NOT making you fat in particular) and they are insightful, but I think most would agree here you come off a little brash when sharing your opinion
to put it mildly...
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