Are you in favour of extingushing the HST?

[Ch28]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

when will we find out if the PST exemptions will be back?
TaxTips.ca - BC PST Exemptions

I think it was mentioned that even if we knocked off the HST that a lot of PST exempt items wouldn't come back.

[Liquid_o2]

Noooooooo

What a mess.

[SlySi]

How selected riding voted

Vancouver-Point Grey 41.89% in favour of extinguishing HST

Vancouver-Kingsway 72.45% in favour of extinguishing HST

Surrey-Green Timbers 75.51% in favour of extinguishing HST

Surrey-White Rock 45.53% in favour of extinguishing HST

West Vancouver-Capilano 35.48% in favour of extinguishing HST

Kelowna-Mission 44.42% in favour of extinguishing HST

Burnaby-Deer Lake 62.62% in favour of extinguishing HST

Abbotsford South 43.28% in favour of extinguishing HST

Richmond Centre 63.77% in favour of extinguishing HST

Prince George-Mackenzie 56.92% in favour of extinguishing HST

North Vancouver-Lonsdale 48.16% in favour of extinguishing HST

Coquitlam-Maillardville 54.63% in favour of extinguishing HST

Victoria-Beacon Hill 55.76% in favour of extinguishing HST


Read more: B.C. voters opt to scrap HST

[Lomac]

Well fuck. At least my area voted No. It's interesting going through the results of the different regions and how they voted. West Van vs Richmond vs Burnaby, etc. You can see who likely voted based on their knowledge and how it likely impacted them (or, how they thought it impacted them).

2011 HST Referendum Voting Results

[TOS'd]

What the fuck Vancouver-Kingsway.

[7seven]

Some idiot I know actually said he voted to scrap the HST because it was costing him more to buy new appliances, tvs, furniture, etc... to redo his house

I literally gave him hard smack upside the head.

I'm thinking the majority of people who voted to scrap the HST do not realize that for the majority of purchases, HST = GST+PST, and would've been cheaper in the long run when reduced to 10%. Sure things like your restaurant bill might be slightly higher, but honestly if an extra 5% is going to hurt you, then you really shouldn't be eating out in the first place. The only people that really benefit from scrapping the HST are low/fixed income people, as a whole BC and BC residents are fucked now.

I personally know about $400 million of future film production spending that was awaiting the outcome of the HST vote that will now likely not get spent in BC. This is also seriously going to hurt other BC businesses too.

[skyxx]

^ Yeah, no doubt about it. Plus we have to spend another 3 billion to give back to the feds. Thanks Bill and the province.

[TouringTeg]

Ugh. I was worried about this. I'm guessing there was lots of left over anger with how HST was introduced. I was looking forward to 10% HST instead of 12%. For the majority of us it would have saved us money vs PST + GST.

[CP.AR]

time to buy some fucking used cars

fucking goddamn my mom's flaming at me because i want HST because she wants to buy a used car at 5% and not spend as much on buying new property

[LSF22]

Fuck you Bill

[SlySi]

Originally Posted by Lomac

Well fuck. At least my area voted No. It's interesting going through the results of the different regions and how they voted. West Van vs Richmond vs Burnaby, etc. You can see who likely voted based on their knowledge and how it likely impacted them (or, how they thought it impacted them).

2011 HST Referendum Voting Results

Quite interesting..
BC has proven.. Collectively we have been determined to have a very low IQ.

[CP.AR]

tonight when I'm home, I'm gonna do a little comparison.... average income/educational levels vs voted yes/no

[skyxx]

Originally Posted by Captain Picard

time to buy some fucking used cars

fucking goddamn my mom's flaming at me because i want HST because she wants to buy a used car at 5% and not spend as much on buying new property

Exemptions are vague at the moment when reverting back to PST/GST

I wouldn't be surprise if most things stayed the same. Then people will start realizing how bad of a decision they made during the voting.

[Meowjin]

it wont change anything, watch pst get raised.

Like I said it's a lose lose.

also lol at idiots claiming at "education levels" of the citizens.

This tax was unpopular because of how it was introduced. Get fucked liberals.

[sonick]

According to twitter, Kevin Falcon says PST slated to be re-instated in 18 months, March 31, 2013. PST exemptions should mostly be back in place with some "streamlining"

Update: New BC PST will NOT apply to restaurants, haircuts, bikes or gym memberships: Falcon @ctvbc #bcpoli

[Mr.HappySilp]

LOL now we have to pay back 3billion and who is going to pay it?
I am sure we all know the answer. Prepare to have your tax increase and more programs cut. And we have all those stupid people who voted yes to complain to.

[LSF22]

^^ Was watching on Global news, I thought I heard him say March 31st 2013, not 13th..?

[xpl0sive]

wow thats bullshit... they introduce HST overnight and take away the excemptions, but it will take 18 MONTHS to bring them back?

[sonick]

Yes, 31st my mistake.

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by MajinHurricane

also lol at idiots claiming at "education levels" of the citizens.

+1

Originally Posted by xpl0sive

wow thats bullshit... they introduce HST overnight and take away the excemptions, but it will take 18 MONTHS to bring them back?

IIRC HST took 14 months?

[Meowjin]

Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp

LOL now we have to pay back 3billion and who is going to pay it?
I am sure we all know the answer. Prepare to have your tax increase and more programs cut. And we have all those stupid people who voted yes to complain to.

The government made 2 billion or something stupid since the intro of hst.

[CP.AR]

I know what we can do guys, lets start a riot!

[Jermyzy]

B.C. rejects HST in landmark referendum - The Globe and Mail

British Columbian voters have rejected the province’s controversial harmonized sales tax in an unprecedented referendum – a decision that will complicate efforts by the province’s Liberal government to manage B.C.’s finances and may also head off the prospect of a fall election.

More related to this story
•Live nowGary Mason and Patrick Brethour discuss the HST referendum results
•HST defeat likely to ice a fall election in B.C.
•Economy LabHST: Good economics, lousy psychology
Politics
The HST stickmen wars Results of the mail-in referendum were announced Friday by Elections BC, which spent weeks tallying 1.6-million ballots mailed in by voters.

Adrian Dix, leader of the opposition BC New Democrats, urged the provincial government to move quickly to restore the 7 per cent B.C. provincial sales tax., and also urged the Liberals to focus on the economy, jobs, health, education and the environment.

"New Democrats will work tirelessly to hold the Liberals to account as they implement the results of this historic referendum,” he said in a statement.

A spokesman for the federal finance minister said Ottawa will respect the decision by B.C. voters, but that Ottawa is looking for its $1.6 billion in funding to B.C. for adopting the tax.

“We will work with the Government of B.C. on the transition,” Chisholm Pothier said in a statement. . “The provincial government has already repeatedly acknowledged that the $1.6 billion in transitional assistance will be recovered as per the agreement.

John Cummins, leader of the BC Conservatives, noted that the B.C. Liberal government had failed to convince voters the tax was in their best interest despite spending millions of dollars in advertising to do so. “The vote is as much a rejection of the manner in which this Liberal government conducts the people’s business, as it is a rejection of the HST,” he said in a statement.

“That said, the government must act swiftly and repeal the HST by January 1st, 2012,” said Mr. Cummins, whose party has no seats in the B.C. legislature, but is seen as a threat to the coalition of supporters that sustains the BC Liberals. Mr. Cummins added the scope of the reinstated provincial sales tax should not be expanded beyond its pre-HST reach.

The referendum process was activated after Elections BC verified about 557,383 signatures on petitions that activated the province’s unique Recall and Initiative Act for the first time since the legislation was passed in the 1990s.

The result marks the first time a province has scrapped an HST, and the first time in modern Canadian history that voters have voted down a tax.

Supporters of the tax said it was crucial to bringing efficiency to the tax system, and creating a strong business environment. Critics said it shifted the tax burden from businesses to consumers.

The demise of the 12-per cent hybrid of the 5-per-cent federal Goods and Services Tax and 7-per-cent B.C. provincial sales tax – the Liberals under Premier Christy Clark had promised to drop the HST to 10 per cent by 2014 – will kick off a process of winding down the HST and reintroducing the PST.

But it will also force tough choices on the government of Ms. Clark, who inherited the policy from her predecessor Gordon Campbell.

The Liberals will have to come up with a plan to reimburse Ottawa for $1.6-billion in transitional funding for adopting the tax, and also face a revenue gap that could force cuts in programs and services.

The HST was expected to raise $5.8-billion in 2011/12: and is a faster growing revenue than the (provincial sales tax),” said a finance-ministry briefing note released earlier this year under access-to-information requests.

“If it were replaced with the previous PST, there would be a continually growing revenue gap.”

A transitional document prepared for Ms. Clark as she won the Liberal leadership in February warned, “eliminating the HST and returning to the PST would have significant revenue and economic implications for British Columbia.”

Also, Ms. Clark has been bullish about a snap election to earn her own mandate ahead of the scheduled vote in May, 2013. She has not ruled out a fall vote, and this week said her government is proceeding with election planning.

The rejection of the tax may provide a boost to B.C. New Democrats, whose leader Adrian Dix toured the province to encourage voters to reject the tax.

Ms. Clark said this week that her government had a “Plan B” ready to in response to the challenges of scrapping the tax in response to a negative referendum vote, but has yet to release details.

The premier and Finance Minister Kevin Falcon have scheduled news conferences Friday to respond to the referendum.

Mr. Campbell introduced the tax in 2009 following a provincial election in which the Liberals had ruled it out.

The move ignited a ferocious public backlash with former Social Credit premier Bill Vander Zalm rallying a Fight-HST campaign that organized petition signings across the province.

For the first time, sufficient numbers of British Columbians signed petitions to force a referendum under the Recall and Initiative Act.

The ballot question read: Are you in favour of extinguishing the HST (Harmonized Sales Tax) and reinstating the PST (Provincial Sales Tax) in conjunction with the GST (Goods and Services Tax)? (Yes/No) In effect, voters had to vote Yes to get rid of the tax and No to save it.

The ballot backlash is bad news for Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty, whose Liberals adopted an HST in December, 2009 over strenuous opposition – and face an election in October.

[gars]

HST: Good economics, lousy psychology

The HST is a highly visible tax. According to the standard undergraduate textbook, Public Finance in Canada, that’s a good thing: “…it is generally agreed that visible taxes are preferable to hidden taxes…. Most economists view the visibility of the GST as one of its beneficial characteristics.”
More related to this story

The alleged advantage of visible taxes is better policy choices. Supposedly, if people know how much they are paying in taxes, they will be able to make informed decisions about how much government spending they are prepared to support.

Making taxes visible might be good economics. But it’s certainly lousy psychology.

Behavioural economics research consistently finds that people are averse to losses. Yes, people like receiving a $50 cheque in the mail, but they really hate having to pay an extra $50 at the cash register. Over all, some people have gained from the introduction of the HST. For example, university students who don’t spend much, but still get an HST refund cheque, are now better off. Some people have lost out, for example, people who spend a lot of money on the services that were tax-exempt under the old provincial sales tax. And some people are no worse off than they were before the HST was introduced.

But when people weigh losses more than gains -- when they care more about paying an extra $3 for a hair cut than getting an HST refund cheque -- even people who gain from the HST might still oppose it. The losses register, the gains don’t. That’s why visible taxes are lousy psychology -- and bad politics.

I’m not even convinced that making taxes visible is good economics. The crucial point is that when it comes to taxes, what you see isn’t always what you pay. For example, suppose you pay $700,000 for a new home in the Fraser Valley. After the BC new housing rebate, $57,750 in HST will be added to the price of your home. That’s what you see. A visible tax of $57,750.

But $57,750 is not be a good measure of a new home buyer’s true tax burden. To figure out how much more you are actually paying as a result of taxes, you need to know: what would the new home have cost in a world without HST?

In fact, without the HST, the before-tax price of a new home would almost certainly have been higher, for two reasons.

First, before the HST was introduced, construction companies had to pay provincial sales tax on many of their inputs -- and passed some of those costs onto consumers. The HST isn’t a straightforward tax increase. Instead, it substitutes a visible tax -- the HST -- for a tax that consumers couldn’t see -- the PST that companies paid on their equipment and some other goods and then built into the price of new homes.

Second, people in the Lower Mainland can only afford to pay so much for a new home. The introduction of the HST increased the after-tax price of homes, giving property developers a choice: keep the before-tax price the same, and shut some people out of the market, or lower the before-tax price, and continue to sell homes. The basic economics of supply and demand predict that the introduction of a tax on new homes creates downwards pressure on the before-tax home price.

When prices change as a result of taxes, the burden of the tax is shifted. As a general rule, taxes are shifted to those who can’t move, or change their behavior, in response to the tax. In the new homes example, that would be the original land owners. They can’t move their land. They can only hold onto it, or sell it for the most that the market will bear. The point is: the visible tax is on the new home buyer. But the person who is made worse off as a result of the tax might be someone else, for example, the owners of prime Fraser Valley real estate.

Economists are overwhelmingly in favour of the HST. The opposition the HST has encountered in B.C. should, therefore, cause us to re-think our support for visible taxes.

When a visible tax replaces an invisible tax, people may overestimate the impact of the tax change on their tax burden – and will therefore oppose the tax, even if the revenue is necessary to finance the goods and services, like health care and education, and the public wants.

HST: Good economics, lousy psychology - The Globe and Mail

[twitchyzero]

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