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Old 01-13-2013, 01:00 PM   #126
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Regardless of whatever happens, as long as natives know they can point to the past and get money for their future, we're going to see this movement continue.
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:16 PM   #127
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Much appreciated, Graeme.
As an individual, it's extremely difficult for me to judge when someone is being subtly or outright racist; I took everymans' "they all have a grade 5 education" as a racist remark, and noclue's comment as ignorant idiocy.

If I could make you a thread-mod, I would because you've got a very level head and we need someone who's got a good feel of the issue to keep track. As the thread goes on, please feel free to PM me if you think I have missed something or have done something unduly harsh.

We're all human, and this topic especially is one of the more difficult ones to police.
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Old 01-13-2013, 01:35 PM   #128
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+1 for Mindbomber being a content moderator
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Old 01-13-2013, 02:12 PM   #129
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^agreed
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:31 PM   #130
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Canada is one of the largest energy land masses, more then Saudi Arabia... and its petro dollars are poured into a black hole called the national debt.
If the first nations can reclaim their treaty territory, its resource money can make Canadian cities look like Belgium and even have a higher standard of living for all its population... but nooo, there are too many people washed up into the propaganda.

I wonder how our American counter parts would feel about blockades for first nations sovereignty... would the citizens resist it or with the new smell of revolution around the globe, would they join them and rebel against the 1%ers, like the Queen.
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Old 01-13-2013, 04:49 PM   #131
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Well it was bound to happen: Ernie Crey, an advisor to the Sto:lo Tribal council in B.C., claims there are certain "undemocratic, demagogic" elements who are planning to "usurp" Idle No More in an attempt to push out AFN chief Shawn Atleo... mainly comprised of those who were his opponents in the last election.
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Old 01-13-2013, 05:42 PM   #132
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Well it was bound to happen: Ernie Crey, an advisor to the Sto:lo Tribal council in B.C., claims there are certain "undemocratic, demagogic" elements who are planning to "usurp" Idle No More in an attempt to push out AFN chief Shawn Atleo... mainly comprised of those who were his opponents in the last election.


Source? I can't find any articles.
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Old 01-13-2013, 06:17 PM   #133
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Source? I can't find any articles.
CKNW AM 980: News. Talk. Sports. - select Jan. 13, 12:00pm, then skip ahead to around 21 minutes.
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Old 01-13-2013, 09:43 PM   #134
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As an individual, it's extremely difficult for me to judge when someone is being subtly or outright racist; I took everymans' "they all have a grade 5 education" as a racist remark, and noclue's comment as ignorant idiocy.

If I could make you a thread-mod, I would because you've got a very level head and we need someone who's got a good feel of the issue to keep track. As the thread goes on, please feel free to PM me if you think I have missed something or have done something unduly harsh.

We're all human, and this topic especially is one of the more difficult ones to police.
Thanks, Graeme; I'll keep in touch via PM if I have any concerns.

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^agreed
Thank you, Redlines and Dino.

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Well it was bound to happen: Ernie Crey, an advisor to the Sto:lo Tribal council in B.C., claims there are certain "undemocratic, demagogic" elements who are planning to "usurp" Idle No More in an attempt to push out AFN chief Shawn Atleo... mainly comprised of those who were his opponents in the last election.
Atleo is often a subject of criticism, along with the entire AFN, because of the degree to which he and they are involved with Government negotiations and the lack of progress on issues. Whether the criticism amounts to much, well I'd say that's pretty doubtful.

Saw this today, enjoyed it.

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Old 01-13-2013, 09:59 PM   #135
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So far, Idle No More has taught me that Canada is simply a bunch of thieving settlers, and that just by existing as a white person, that I should feel guilty and hate myself for their suffering.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:38 PM   #136
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Its not about feeling guilty and hating yourself.

It is about acknowledging what happened, understanding what happen, understanding the ongoing and current issues and struggles, and working together on a plan for the future without prejudice.

Last edited by dinosaur; 01-13-2013 at 10:48 PM.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:39 PM   #137
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Need to get rid of the poverty pimps. ( The Chiefs )
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:42 PM   #138
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plan for the future without prejudice.

Impossible. The white man will forever be the scapegoat as long as there is even 1 poor indian.

If you want to see modern racism in action, look no further than Idle No More.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:45 PM   #139
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So far, Idle No More has taught me that Canada is simply a bunch of thieving settlers, and that just by existing as a white person, that I should feel guilty and hate myself for their suffering.
Jason;

I've authored numerous posts here, but not once have I suggested, "Canada is simply a bunch of thieving settlers, and that just by existing as a white person, that I should feel guilty and hate myself for their suffering." I've also followed 'Idle No More' quite closely, reading the majority of posts on its main and local Facebook pages, and not once has any even vague approximation of what you cite been suggested.

'Idle No More' is about establishing equality by replacing the Indian Act, honoring treaty rights, and the renegotiation of treaty rights under the principles of unconscionability; the intention is to achieve these goals through peaceful protest and education.

I'd like to dispel the misconceptions you've developed, and as such, I'd welcome any reasonable contributions you have to offer, but, you know your post is not constructed from facts and that it is not beneficial to any reasonable agenda.

Stop being a fucking idiot.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:46 PM   #140
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MB: As the Revscene First Nation advocate, can you tell us what % of your background is First Nations?
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:47 PM   #141
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Its not about feeling guilty and hating yourself.

It is about acknowledging what happened, understanding what happen, understanding the ongoing and current issues and struggles, and working together on a plan for the future without prejudice.
Wait, I thought it was about Chief Spence trying to get Harper to meet with her.

Or was it supposed to be protesting against Bill C-45?

I'm sure if I looked through two dozen different media sources, I'd find three dozen different opinions on what it's all supposed to be about.

Occupy 2.0, anyone?
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:48 PM   #142
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Furthermore, I have worked on countless reservations with countless FN people all over the province...not once was I ever looked at as being different or made to feel guilty. In fact, I was always welcomed with open arms, invited over for dinner and BBQs, to go fishing, invited into the Long House, asked to witness naming ceremonies, newly elected Chief ceremonies, and have been honored to receive a blanket during another ceremony.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:59 PM   #143
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MB: As the Revscene First Nation advocate, can you tell us what % of your background is First Nations?
Generally speaking, I find identifying percentages to be in very poor taste.

Full disclosure though, I'm 50% Algonquin and 50% Irish/Canadian.

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Wait, I thought it was about Chief Spence trying to get Harper to meet with her.

Or was it supposed to be protesting against Bill C-45?

I'm sure if I looked through two dozen different media sources, I'd find three dozen different opinions on what it's all supposed to be about.

Occupy 2.0, anyone?
Chief Spence is continuing her protest until tangible progress is made; understandable, given the lack of progress that arose from the 'Aboriginal Summit' with the Government one year ago.

The AFN identified a series of objectives at a CBC press-conference.

1. Rescind the changes to environmental provisions brought forward by the two omnibus bills.

2. Re-negotiate resource revenue sharing agreements.

3. Develop a strategy to replace the Indian Act.

4. Equalization of education quality for indigenous children.

5. Introduce changes to the education system across Canada, like those seen in Manitoba (ie. educating non-indigenous children better on the indigenous issues).

6. Action on missing women.

AFN lays out goals - Aboriginal - CBC Player
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:10 PM   #144
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Wait, I thought it was about Chief Spence trying to get Harper to meet with her.

Or was it supposed to be protesting against Bill C-45?

I'm sure if I looked through two dozen different media sources, I'd find three dozen different opinions on what it's all supposed to be about.

Occupy 2.0, anyone?
I do agree with you. I posted a bit about my opinion a few pages ago....honestly, I am a little on the fence as to what is going on right now. AT first I was 100% behind Idle No More as I am not a fan of C-45. I was impressed and excited to see the unification of Canada's FN fighting against a Bill, which realistically, effects all Canadians. I was hoping it would open a dialogue about the actual Bill which includes SEVERAL items totally un-related to FN issues and the Indian Act. I was not happy with the cuts to the environment last year and even less impressed with this Bill. I was hoping Idle No More would engage the public and encourage people to stand-up to the Harper Gov't (personally, I am not a Conservative and I an NOT happy with Harper and the direct the country is going).

My thoughts now are of disappointed. I do not feel a unification off all FN people and I find that that message is unclear, overwhelming, unorganized, and confusing.

I am finding it hard to fully support Idle No More. But, that does not mean I don't want change to the current system. My issue in this thread is not necessarily the discussion pertaining to the Idle No More movement. My issue is with some rs members' overall perception of FN people. This is why I am always involved in these types of threads....I can not simply sit here, read some of these posts, and keep my mouth shut. I get tired of ready the same thing over and over and the overtly racist comments is rather shocking. I may be white...I may be middle class...the Indian Act, reservation system, residential schools, treaties, and all other FN issues may have no impact on my life whatsoever, but I will not sit back and keep quiet when I think people are flat-out wrong, naive, racist, and misinformed.

I feel, personally, that if I do not speak out against something that is wrong, I am no better than the person who says it.

Last edited by dinosaur; 01-13-2013 at 11:18 PM.
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:14 PM   #145
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I feel, personally, that if I do not speak out against something that is wrong, I am no better than the person who says it.
I agree with this, along with the proviso that a person who argues against something without knowing the full information is no better than the person who argues for it.

Limited information and narrow viewpoints are the hobgoblin of having too much easily accessible and digestible information. Nobody goes in-depth from multiple points of view anymore.
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:14 PM   #146
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'Idle No More' is about establishing equality

No more indian act, no more chiefs, no more special treatment for anyone.

We will then, and only then, be equal.

...until then? Pay, pay, pay...
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:15 PM   #147
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No more indian act, no more chiefs, no more special treatment for anyone.

We will then, and only then, be equal.

...until then? Pay, pay, pay...
No more chiefs, no more premiers...


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Old 01-13-2013, 11:18 PM   #148
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No more chiefs, no more premiers...


If wishes were horsepowers, I'd be in a Veyron.

Are indian chiefs elected by individual bands? How long is the term for?


There are many, many Chiefs that make more annual income than Harper, yet they manage much, much smaller populations.

Why?

The whole Chiefs system is corrupt from top to bottom. They are poverty pimps that have to keep other indians down to stay relevant.
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:20 PM   #149
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Are indian chiefs elected by individual bands? How long is the term for?


There are many, many Chiefs that make more annual income than Harper, yet they manage much, much smaller populations.

Why?

The whole Chiefs system is corrupt from top to bottom. They are poverty pimps that have to keep other indians down to stay relevant.
Isn't that essentially a microcosm of society?
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:20 PM   #150
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Regardless of whatever happens, as long as natives know they can point to the past and get money for their future, we're going to see this movement continue.
It's a lesson Quebec has learned well: threaten to leave Canada, get tons of money thrown at you. Classic "Squeaky Wheel" theory in both cases.
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