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Old 01-11-2013, 10:18 AM   #101
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Quote:
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I hope the Harper government tells them "No more money to the reservations, get out, you're Canadian like everyone else. Intergrate into society like every other Canadian or immigrant" and that's that. They want "Equality" they need to give up their little pie in the sky view on things and the reservations. The Natives want to be the Pigs in the barnyard. I don't think that is able to happen.
You can't compel someone to leave if they are not legally required to do so.

Did you not read my explanation on why the government cannot just get rid of the reserves, or in your view, simply cut funding? The government needs to basically change the Constitution to cut funding or ignore existing agreements that it signed with First Nations a hundred years ago. Not going to happen, I'm afraid.

We tried assimilation - it was called the residential school system. Not all of the system was bad, but it didn't exactly pan out for the country either.
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Old 01-11-2013, 10:39 AM   #102
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You're entitled to voice your opinion, but I must say, at least in my opinion, it's degraded very significantly in quality. I'm not criticizing, just offering my opinion.

The problem I'm having is that I can't find a mission statement for this entire movement and I'm paying attention to anybody with a clear idea of they want out of this.

Louis Riel was rejecting the English government in the Manitoba area and working to set up his own provisional one. Again later in Saskatchewan as well.

Sitting Bull didn't want to be dependent on the government's reservation so he struck back in the desire for autonomy.

And perhaps a less extreme example: Harriet Nahanee's activism to see Native people become less integrated and assimilated to Canadian culture.


If I hear some person on Twitter chirping about X issue or Y problem I tend to skim or ignore it. Same goes for forum posts. Same goes for comments on a news site. But when I hear two native leaders say the exact same thing I pay attention. Similar to Malcolm X's frustration with the Jim Crow laws of the era, some of the things I hear are inflammatory and alarming and of course these are the statements that should be paid attention to. If true, these statements mean to put us all in subservience to the 4.3% until their demands are met.



Don't get me wrong. I get where you're coming from. It seems as if I'm just taking a 'Daily Show' approach to this issue and reading headlines, then taking the most inflammatory of them and basing my understanding of the issues on that. But as someone without a dog in this fight I have to look at what the leaders are saying and not the participants because until now the participants have been making broad, nonspecific demands for change that they themselves could have enacted prior to this movement.

Despite what the popular opinion would have us believe, the Native people didn't have the same kinds of Jim Crow laws holding them back as did the folks in the US. But now the Idle No Movement is being steered by people who seem to be so intent on making a difference right now that its literally been their first opportunity to this point to do so.

I started this thread because I didn't understand this movement, but I'm beginning to understand it a little better now.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:01 AM   #103
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I haven't read as much on the canadian fn, except more on the east coast where I grew up. We didn't have as many first nations people there, as it was more established to move them/kill them as was seen necessary.

I don't know if that in itself paints a portrait for anyone on where some of the bitterness comes from or not.

If that doesn't, maybe asking where the first nations people live in Newfoundland would help. The indigenous people are called "Beothuks"...go google it.

I'll wait.

Back? Yeah...mass slaughter.

In the US, the Indians were continually pushed further and further west, and then more white people came along and pushed them further out of the way.

The same thing happened in Canada, and even today.

Oh...here's a reservation. It's the shitty land that no one wants. Can't grow shit on it, but its yours.

Until the 20th/21st century and....oil bitches! Need a fucking bridge bitches! Coal! Diamonds!

Fuck! I thought we gave them the shitty land. There is some innate value left on it, so now we need to pay them off and then take it.

And after: mass slaughter, continually being pushed aside for development, being used as shock troops in war, displacement, assimilation campaigns, and a bit more mass slaughter...they get called fat lazy drunks by assholes on revscene.

Buck up! They get told. You've continually had a white fist up your ass, but we're over it. You should be too. We're ready to be friends.

Now, let's get you educated and productive because we want you off the government teat...when its white people on the dole, that is called "progressive taxation"...but an indian? Oh...that's being lazy.

Why are people pissed off now? Because the latest round is eliminating CONVERSATION(ie, environmetal study/protected land status/first nations consultations) on land and a lot of other things that, like through history, primarily first nations are being told, "trust us" and as noted above...they have NO FUCKING REASON TO.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:05 AM   #104
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The AFN National Chief, Sean Atleo, accompanied by the regional Chiefs for British Columbia and Saskatchewan held a 50 minute press conference discussing goals yesterday. Atleo spends approximately 15 minutes outlining goals, and the rest is a question and answer period which is well worth watching.

AFN lays out goals - Aboriginal - CBC Player

Based on these official statements by the AFN, I read the primary objectives as these:

1. Rescind the changes to environmental provisions brought forward by the two omnibus bills.

2. Re-negotiate resource revenue sharing agreements.

3. Develop a strategy to replace the Indian Act.

4. Equalization of education quality for indigenous children.

5. Introduce changes to the education system across Canada, like those seen in Manitoba (ie. educating non-indigenous children better on the indigenous issues).

6. Action on missing women.

I've also noted; on Facebook pages anyone who suggests violence or economic disruption is very quickly denounced, and on the j11action.com page there is one blockade planned (Cache Creek) but many many round dances.

Quote:
Despite what the popular opinion would have us believe, the Native people didn't have the same kinds of Jim Crow laws holding them back as did the folks in the US. But now the Idle No Movement is being steered by people who seem to be so intent on making a difference right now that its literally been their first opportunity to this point to do so.
I don't think there's a belief that this is a first opportunity or a beginning of one, more so, a level of the patience that has persisted for a very long time is running out. The AFN meeting with the Crown last year was supposed to mark an increase in progress, but that opposite has occurred, and what you see is the result of that. Like I've said before, the status quo is only good for two groups: resource companies, and government officials who personally benefit from relationships with them.

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Old 01-11-2013, 06:11 PM   #105
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I think I'm getting a better grasp on this movement. One thing really bothers me though, the native chiefs aren't taking any blame in the conditions of their reserves. I've walked around a few reserves in my day and witnessed how disgusting they can be. Maybe if some of them took the time of day to grab a garbage bag and clean up their spots, or did anything. Honestly, what do natives do with all that free time? I'd be improving my poverty third world community. But I think they don't fully know how to do this, or they can't get the help they need because no one is listening. The government needs to educate the chiefs on how to properly spend their money and manage their communities, and the chiefs need to follow them and show that they can make the change. I'd love to see a reservation building their own houses instead of contracting others to build it for them. But this is all an education problem. Every second native on the radio talks like a 5th grader, and that's probably because they only got a 5th grade education on the reserve. I'm in support of some of their demands, but I'd really like to see them take some blame for their own living conditions. How can you spend tax payers money and not get a receipt for it?
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:00 PM   #106
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dont really care about any of this after reading quite a bit, but one thing i'll add regarding the post above mine here regarding the people and chiefs of the reserves themselves taking ownership of the conditions

A good family friend of mine was a fairly big contractor who got a contract to build houses and do renovations on reserves throughout BC. This individual had a fairly large crew and fully capable of constructing houses from the ground up as well as full tear down/rebuild reno's.

He ended up backing out of the contract after a year and a half due to absolute frustration and downright disgust after he saw what was happening to the houses he was building. He went into the whole project with a mind of doing turn over's and orientations to the future owner much like any custom home builder would, he would take the family through their brand new home and go through a whole list of things with them from power panels, appliance hook ups, any concerns with finishing like dry wall bumps, paint scratches, etc. 100% professional in his turn overs and courtesies

He then would be called back in to deal with deficiances and issues with said homeowners property, he said nearly 100% of the properties he returned to within 1-3 months were literately "torn apart" holes kicked in walls, carpet ripped up or ruined, appliances running their exhaust fans/piping out of windows or into attics instead of intended drops because of space issues, IE. storage/misc use of the laundry room instead of intended purposes

he said most of these properties that were under a year old were in worse condition than some 50 year old properties he had reno'd in the past

dont have much compassion on those grounds.
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:39 PM   #107
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I think I'm getting a better grasp on this movement. One thing really bothers me though, the native chiefs aren't taking any blame in the conditions of their reserves. I've walked around a few reserves in my day and witnessed how disgusting they can be. Maybe if some of them took the time of day to grab a garbage bag and clean up their spots, or did anything. Honestly, what do natives do with all that free time?
Just imagine if the Germans were as lazy as the FN in Canada, Germany would never have been rebuilt after WWII. Natives don't care about themselves, their community or Canada. They are 'different' like they say they are....

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Old 01-11-2013, 07:48 PM   #108
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To those who are critical of specific aspects of the movement or of problems you see within the system, you are more than welcome to voice your concerns.

Belka has been banned for six months. Next time I will not be so generous.
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Old 01-11-2013, 07:50 PM   #109
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dont have much compassion on those grounds.
I grew up in a community on the island where white folks did the same thing. That kind of disrespect for one's home isn't limited to a specific ethnicity.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:24 PM   #110
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I find it so predictable that after a few pages of worthy intelligent discussion these thread regarding Canada's FN always turn into racist and accusatory posts.

"They should" "Our country" "Our police" "buck up" "times have changed" "get over it" "they deserve it" "their fault" and even racial slurs get so frustrating to read over and over and OVER again.

One would think that a site so full of diverse people from different ethnic, racial, and socio-economic backgrounds would be slightly more tolerant and understand that for every stereotypical description of an ethnicity or race there are tens of thousands that are quite the opposite.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:31 PM   #111
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I think I'm getting a better grasp on this movement. One thing really bothers me though, the native chiefs aren't taking any blame in the conditions of their reserves. I've walked around a few reserves in my day and witnessed how disgusting they can be. Maybe if some of them took the time of day to grab a garbage bag and clean up their spots, or did anything. Honestly, what do natives do with all that free time? I'd be improving my poverty third world community. But I think they don't fully know how to do this, or they can't get the help they need because no one is listening. The government needs to educate the chiefs on how to properly spend their money and manage their communities, and the chiefs need to follow them and show that they can make the change. I'd love to see a reservation building their own houses instead of contracting others to build it for them. But this is all an education problem. Every second native on the radio talks like a 5th grader, and that's probably because they only got a 5th grade education on the reserve. I'm in support of some of their demands, but I'd really like to see them take some blame for their own living conditions. How can you spend tax payers money and not get a receipt for it?
I’d like to try and address each point you’ve made thoroughly.

First Nations Chiefs taking responsibility for the conditions of reserves –

I attribute the poor condition of some reserves to a multi-generational pattern, and one generally reflective of the troubles befalling First Nations people. An acceptable standard of property condition will be engrained in an individual in childhood, and be reflected in adulthood. The age of current reservation leadership places them as children through the sixties, seventies and eighties. I believe, First Nations people will come to recognize the aforementioned decades as the most desperate to ever befall them. I then suggest, the current leaders and elders on reservations consider the standards you cite as acceptable because of the conditions they were raised amongst and are accustomed to. Naturally, drug and alcohol abuse arising from the same set of circumstances also contributes to conditions. I’ve noted continual improvement of conditions as the current generation comes into adulthood; I believe the improvement will only continue.

Management of funding –

The First Nations community often discusses quality of leadership within small rural reservations. It is a significant issue in some communities, and there’s no easy answer. A mixture of strategies have been attempted to improve the quality of leadership, and there’s been mixed degrees of success overall. As you suggest, a secondary level of government management is often put in place. The low quality of the government officials only compounds the problem though. I see progress on the horizon, and improvement to be made with the rise of the better educated current and next generation. There’s no easy answer to this issue though.

Reservations independently managing construction –

On a very large reservation, it may be practical for First Nations people to look to within communities for skilled trades. On a medium or small reservation, I don’t see this as a reasonable option. A community with only a few hundred people cannot employ a trained equipment operator, carpenter, electrician, plumber, insulator, drywaller, and so on to build structures and manage infrastructure.

In addition, construction on a reservation can be very challenging. The Indian Act has dated wording that deters personal or private lending investment from taking place on properties located on reservations, creating a dependence on government provided funding and lending. Important to note, it’s not funding beyond that available to any non-indigenous Canadian (I can quote government websites stating as such). I’ve already digressed a bit here, so I won’t continue further. It’s a cornerstone issue with the Indian Act.

First Nations leaders often speak quite poorly –

I wouldn’t necessarily agree. I would re-phrase your statement to say, First Nations people often do not sound as well spoken as non-indigenous colleages. I would attribute this to two reasons:

1) It’s not uncommon for First Nations leaders to have risen through the ranks despite having a low level of education, and may lack the refined form of a person who has had extensive post-secondary schooling.
2) First Nations people often possess a specific set of linguistic characteristics, and although they amount to nothing more than a difference they can impact perception of the speaker. In my prior post I included a link to a CBC video, the regional Chief of Saskatchewan has the ‘drawl’ I’m referring too.

It’s important to remember, a person should be judged on the messages they deliver in speech; well refined diction and linguistics are only icing.

I’ve noted Graeme gave you points, and although your post leaves a bit to be desired at some points its not too bad. I would happily listen to any rebuttals you have to my response.

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dont really care about any of this after reading quite a bit, but one thing i'll add regarding the post above mine here regarding the people and chiefs of the reserves themselves taking ownership of the conditions

A good family friend of mine was a fairly big contractor who got a contract to build houses and do renovations on reserves throughout BC. This individual had a fairly large crew and fully capable of constructing houses from the ground up as well as full tear down/rebuild reno's.

He ended up backing out of the contract after a year and a half due to absolute frustration and downright disgust after he saw what was happening to the houses he was building. He went into the whole project with a mind of doing turn over's and orientations to the future owner much like any custom home builder would, he would take the family through their brand new home and go through a whole list of things with them from power panels, appliance hook ups, any concerns with finishing like dry wall bumps, paint scratches, etc. 100% professional in his turn overs and courtesies

He then would be called back in to deal with deficiances and issues with said homeowners property, he said nearly 100% of the properties he returned to within 1-3 months were literately "torn apart" holes kicked in walls, carpet ripped up or ruined, appliances running their exhaust fans/piping out of windows or into attics instead of intended drops because of space issues, IE. storage/misc use of the laundry room instead of intended purposes

he said most of these properties that were under a year old were in worse condition than some 50 year old properties he had reno'd in the past

dont have much compassion on those grounds.
As you shouldn't, I wouldn't have compassion either.

I've worked on quite a few reserves; a few within the Lower Mainland, a few in the Okanagan, and a couple in other areas of British Columbia; I've never had issues with properties being damaged. I'm only a sub-contractor though, and have only returned post-construction to visit friends and family on a couple of the aforementioned reserves.

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Old 01-11-2013, 08:38 PM   #112
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How does Canada's treatment of FN differ from when Chinese people built railroads or the Japanese being shipped to the interior or any of the other incidents in our history?
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:58 PM   #113
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How does Canada's treatment of FN differ from when Chinese people built railroads or the Japanese being shipped to the interior or any of the other incidents in our history?
I find it hard to compare any one groups suffering to another. Is one better or worse than the other? No.

I have worked heavily in the heritage sector dealing with Japanese internment camps, Chinese labour, and FN issues. Yes, the underlying current is racial discrimination and abuse, but expectations, length of discrimination, results, and treatment were different. Better or worse? Any aspect can be argued.

Japanese being raped of their possessions, livelihood, family members, etc and forced into internment camp. Terrible.

Chinese people being stuffed in labour camps, living in poor and dangerous conditions, etc. Terrible.

FN people being torn from family, put in residential schools, kicked off their land, force assimilation, etc. Terrible.

There is no comparison, because when we start to say, "my people were treated worse than yours", we minimize the atrocities. Arguments can be made as to who got the better deal and who was treated worse....but there is no point.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:04 PM   #114
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Kind of cool, a map showing the locations of IdleNoMore# tweets.

Quite a bit of international attention is being garnered.

#IdleNoMore Tweet Map
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:17 PM   #115
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This guy being interviewed lays out whats going on really well.


If these protests continue, Im betting the CBC and infiltrators will make these blockades out to be riot like and cut social network and phone text communication to slow this movement.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:03 PM   #116
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I find it so predictable that after a few pages of worthy intelligent discussion these thread regarding Canada's FN always turn into racist and accusatory posts.

"They should" "Our country" "Our police" "buck up" "times have changed" "get over it" "they deserve it" "their fault" and even racial slurs get so frustrating to read over and over and OVER again.

One would think that a site so full of diverse people from different ethnic, racial, and socio-economic backgrounds would be slightly more tolerant and understand that for every stereotypical description of an ethnicity or race there are tens of thousands that are quite the opposite.
im not going to try and not dwell into anything but a somewhat neutral stance but...

it might be hard for families of Chinese, European, etc, etc, imigrants who came to this country with absolutely nothing, and in many cases less than nothing and built a life within Canada for themselves through nothing else but hard work and determination to look upon Aboriginals and give them sympathy without knowing history outside of stories in the news or word of mouth

i'm kind of in the same boat with that opinion, my dad's side of the family were essentially first generation Canadians and moved here from Finland in the 50's, they came to Canada not only with no money, but actually owing Canadian immigration $150 upon arrival. in 2006 they downsized to a townhouse selling their acerage property with a house my grandfather had built himself for 850k with no mortgage.
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Old 01-11-2013, 11:07 PM   #117
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Japanese being raped of their possessions, livelihood, family members, etc and forced into internment camp. Terrible.

Chinese people being stuffed in labour camps, living in poor and dangerous conditions, etc. Terrible.

FN people being torn from family, put in residential schools, kicked off their land, force assimilation, etc. Terrible.
Then how come Japanese and the Chinese manage to rise from their atrocities and become productive, successful members of society instead of bitching about the past to the 21st century? My theory is that due to the Indian act, it gave the FN population an incentive to not develop themselves while the Japanese/Chinese had no choice but to work hard or die.

If you guys want to see how anti-native sentiments are formed, go to any major town in BC outside the lower mainland on the last Wednesday of every month. Why? its welfare day. Alcohol/drugs/moneymarts are booming, there are fights in broad daylight, gets worse at night. And the majority of them are natives. This cycle repeats every month. I've seen natives trash a Chinese restaurant and telling the owners to go back to China as its their land now.

Or the cases of chiefs driving Escalades and getting 300k salaries.

As a taxpayer,are you happy seeing this is where your taxes go to?

Granted of course, not all natives are like this and there are always degenerates in every race.
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Iíd like to try and address each point youíve made thoroughly.

First Nations Chiefs taking responsibility for the conditions of reserves Ė

I attribute the poor condition of some reserves to a multi-generational pattern, and one generally reflective of the troubles befalling First Nations people. An acceptable standard of property condition will be engrained in an individual in childhood, and be reflected in adulthood. The age of current reservation leadership places them as children through the sixties, seventies and eighties. I believe, First Nations people will come to recognize the aforementioned decades as the most desperate to ever befall them. I then suggest, the current leaders and elders on reservations consider the standards you cite as acceptable because of the conditions they were raised amongst and are accustomed to. Naturally, drug and alcohol abuse arising from the same set of circumstances also contributes to conditions. Iíve noted continual improvement of conditions as the current generation comes into adulthood; I believe the improvement will only continue.

Reservations independently managing construction Ė

On a very large reservation, it may be practical for First Nations people to look to within communities for skilled trades. On a medium or small reservation, I donít see this as a reasonable option. A community with only a few hundred people cannot employ a trained equipment operator, carpenter, electrician, plumber, insulator, drywaller, and so on to build structures and manage infrastructure.

In addition, construction on a reservation can be very challenging. The Indian Act has dated wording that deters personal or private lending investment from taking place on properties located on reservations, creating a dependence on government provided funding and lending. Important to note, itís not funding beyond that available to any non-indigenous Canadian (I can quote government websites stating as such). Iíve already digressed a bit here, so I wonít continue further. Itís a cornerstone issue with the Indian Act.
Thanks for the response, didn't expect to get an infraction but I suppose my message was edgy. what are some examples of the living conditions? I lived near a reserve in saskatchewen and driving through it was like driving through a third world country. People sitting beside the road on sofas getting drunk watching traffic all day, new cars in pieces all over the yard. Garbage everywhere. How can this change? what will make it change? is it simply a slowly evolving native change or "Adaptation" to our European descendants style of living or is this to be blamed on the government?

Is it possible for natives living on reserves to go to school and learn these things then come back to their community is that currently happening? As far as I know they get a certain amount of free post secondary schooling don't they? Is this indian act going to be changed, is that part of the movement? Is there a list of demands that this movement wants?
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:40 AM   #120
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Let's also face facts...I too, have heard the stories, and seen it myself, the way reservations end up going. New houses destroyed and so on.

First, I'm going to point out that this is not solely a first nations problem. Rent an apartment to some older white people, and you'd think that Mr.Clean should be called "Mr. Gold Fucking Bars". It's not truly their house, so they don't care. You get the same "this one is broken, give me more" attitude too.

But that's not to negate the conversation. But, what I'm suggesting in each of my posts, is that FN are judged by the very best of your own culture, and you ignore the rest.

Does it happen to reservations more? Probably.

And I don't think that anyone here is ever suggesting that yes, there are a lot of FN that I think could use a very large dose of reality. I can't decide to fix the problem one day for you, come in and make it all better. They are, as a people, going to have to meet half way.

I don't know what that system is. Do you? Do you just tell them, "buck up?" I don't know. Here is what I can tell you as a normal, average white guy Canadian citizen:

I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

You know one thing I can do, and everyone else can do? Listen. That's number one. And goddamn, that's good advice for a LOT of people in Canada, in this world and on this forum, is occasionally SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Maybe we need to have a dialogue. Maybe its just fucking time to sit down and say, "how do we fix this?" Because we have problems guys. We have kids drinking gas up north, and we have that reservation a few months ago where they were living in shit shacks. I'm not cool with that.

Maybe one step is dropping a little bit of the racism from the way you speak about this group of people. Maybe that's something that you can do today. What I find truly ironic, is that some of the people in this thread, not the ones being overtly racist, but the ones that take the "you people" and "them" attitude, some of these people, aren't white. So your people, as has been pointed out, also suffered some "institutional" racism in this very country, but apparently that gets forgotten about, because you are happy to hand it out to others. This is of course not to say that its ok for whites to do it at all, but we've primarily always been the source. If one group of people that are discriminated against can't get some support from another that has been discriminated against, well, that just seems a little more wrong.
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Old 01-12-2013, 09:53 AM   #121
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Thanks for the response, didn't expect to get an infraction but I suppose my message was edgy. what are some examples of the living conditions? I lived near a reserve in saskatchewen and driving through it was like driving through a third world country. People sitting beside the road on sofas getting drunk watching traffic all day, new cars in pieces all over the yard. Garbage everywhere. How can this change? what will make it change? is it simply a slowly evolving native change or "Adaptation" to our European descendants style of living or is this to be blamed on the government?
Is it possible for natives living on reserves to go to school and learn these things then come back to their community is that currently happening? As far as I know they get a certain amount of free post secondary schooling don't they? Is this indian act going to be changed, is that part of the movement? Is there a list of demands that this movement wants?
Housing –

I’ve spent time on a number of reserves, and conditions vary significantly like all neighborhoods. I’ve been on very well kept reserves where conditions are comparable to any middle-class neighborhood, Tsawwassen would be an example. I’ve also been on reserves where conditions are generally poor; the outside spaces of homes are generally not as well kept, and there’s miscellaneous debris cluttering car ports and yards; I would consider the conditions to comparable to the less affluent neighborhoods of Surrey. The average reserve I’ve spent time on is a balance of the two aforementioned states, and the conditions are comparable to many slightly below average neighborhoods. To ensure clarity: I consider conditions the general non-monetary upkeep of the community, factors like the amount of litter, vandalism, and clutter in yards, but not the state of home maintenance since that is a separate complex issue.

I’m hesitant to assign blame; I don’t feel dismissing individual responsibility is appropriate, but I also don’t believe in placing fault on the wrong parties. The government is entitled to a significant proportion of fault, residential schools caused issues that penetrate deep into the community and perpetuate through multiple generations. The experience of residential schools were a significant catalyst in establishing drug and alcohol addiction, themselves fostering crime, and causing long standing parenting issues by breaking up families. I dislike citing residential schools, but the impact they’ve had cannot be understated. I will also give fault to First Nations and Aboriginal people themselves, but to a lesser extent. I recognize First Nations and Aboriginal people have an internal responsibility to recover from hardships, but success in that will in inevitably vary and take time.

The removal of the Indian Act is an initial step. A person who takes pride in a place will give it greater care, but when you’re trapped by bureaucracy into living in a run-down, dated home it’s difficult to do that. The next step would be to target the general concerns on education, resource revenue sharing and such, because the state of a community reflects the state of a people.

Schooling -

You'll need to clarify, learn which things?

First Nations and Aboriginal people are increasingly leaving reservation communities temporarily and returning with greater life experience, education, and improving the state of their people.

Indian Affairs grants a stippen to reservations to improve access for 'status indians' to post-secondary. It's up to the reservation to decide who receives funding and to what degree, because the stippen is not sufficient to educate every potential post-secondary student. If you live in a community like Attawapiskat where the primary and secondary education levels are utter rubbish, because schools on reservations are given less financial support than an equivalent non-IA funded school, the stippen doesn't mean much because you would never be admitted to any institution much less be prepared for it.

Objectives of the movement -

Removing the Indian Act is a very important objective of 'Idle No More,' and it's not a new idea. First Nations and Aboriginal people have been attempting to crawl out from under the Indian Act for decades, but the Government has not shown initiative to make progress on replacing it. Some Bands have resorted to borrowing millions privately to remove themselves from the Indian Act.

The National Chief, and Regional Chiefs of British Columbia and Saskatchewan discuss objectives in the first 15 minutes of this video.

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Politics/ID/2324452378/

Based on these official statements by the AFN, I read the primary objectives as these:

1. Rescind the changes to environmental provisions brought forward by the two omnibus bills.

2. Re-negotiate resource revenue sharing agreements.

3. Develop a strategy to replace the Indian Act.

4. Equalization of education quality for indigenous children.

5. Introduce changes to the education system across Canada, like those seen in Manitoba (ie. educating non-indigenous children better on the indigenous issues).

6. Action on missing women.

As before, I'm happy to listen to any thoughts, rebuttals, questions you may have to my response.

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Then how come Japanese and the Chinese manage to rise from their atrocities and become productive, successful members of society instead of bitching about the past to the 21st century? My theory is that due to the Indian act, it gave the FN population an incentive to not develop themselves while the Japanese/Chinese had no choice but to work hard or die.

If you guys want to see how anti-native sentiments are formed, go to any major town in BC outside the lower mainland on the last Wednesday of every month. Why? its welfare day. Alcohol/drugs/moneymarts are booming, there are fights in broad daylight, gets worse at night. And the majority of them are natives. This cycle repeats every month. I've seen natives trash a Chinese restaurant and telling the owners to go back to China as its their land now.

Or the cases of chiefs driving Escalades and getting 300k salaries.

As a taxpayer,are you happy seeing this is where your taxes go to?

Granted of course, not all natives are like this and there are always degenerates in every race.
The comparisons being made between Japanese internment, Chinese railroad labour, and First Nations and Aboriginal land displacements and residential schools are not reasonable or well-informed. Dinosaur is correct to not open a discussion comparing them, and I will not either.

First Nations and Aboriginal people are not entitled to any benefits through the Indian Act not granted to a non-indigenous Canadian.

Chiefs salaries are comparable to those in non-reserve communities. Chief Spence has an Escalade, because her partner works in mining and they collectively have a high income.

Everyman's post was edgy, but not enough to deserve points IMO.

While you, you deserved to be banned. Your points have been repeatedly and unequivocally disproven, and you cling to them. There's only one explanation for that, and we all know what it is..

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Old 01-12-2013, 12:52 PM   #122
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Let's also face facts...I too, have heard the stories, and seen it myself, the way reservations end up going. New houses destroyed and so on.

First, I'm going to point out that this is not solely a first nations problem. Rent an apartment to some older white people, and you'd think that Mr.Clean should be called "Mr. Gold Fucking Bars". It's not truly their house, so they don't care. You get the same "this one is broken, give me more" attitude too.

But that's not to negate the conversation. But, what I'm suggesting in each of my posts, is that FN are judged by the very best of your own culture, and you ignore the rest.

Does it happen to reservations more? Probably.

And I don't think that anyone here is ever suggesting that yes, there are a lot of FN that I think could use a very large dose of reality. I can't decide to fix the problem one day for you, come in and make it all better. They are, as a people, going to have to meet half way.

I don't know what that system is. Do you? Do you just tell them, "buck up?" I don't know. Here is what I can tell you as a normal, average white guy Canadian citizen:

I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

You know one thing I can do, and everyone else can do? Listen. That's number one. And goddamn, that's good advice for a LOT of people in Canada, in this world and on this forum, is occasionally SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Maybe we need to have a dialogue. Maybe its just fucking time to sit down and say, "how do we fix this?" Because we have problems guys. We have kids drinking gas up north, and we have that reservation a few months ago where they were living in shit shacks. I'm not cool with that.

Maybe one step is dropping a little bit of the racism from the way you speak about this group of people. Maybe that's something that you can do today. What I find truly ironic, is that some of the people in this thread, not the ones being overtly racist, but the ones that take the "you people" and "them" attitude, some of these people, aren't white. So your people, as has been pointed out, also suffered some "institutional" racism in this very country, but apparently that gets forgotten about, because you are happy to hand it out to others. This is of course not to say that its ok for whites to do it at all, but we've primarily always been the source. If one group of people that are discriminated against can't get some support from another that has been discriminated against, well, that just seems a little more wrong.
your shoving the "how to feel" about things down peoples throats are just as bad as the people with racist tones and ignorance.

Guess what, when people have an opinion you dont agree with or find irrelevant/uninformed thats how many Canadians view these problems, stereotypes are typically there for a reason because the individuals being stereotyped perpetuate it onto themselves

i commend MindBomber for being so informed and willing to have a informative dialogue but most of the posters in this thread are just spinning their wheels worse than the first nations are right now, done with this thread.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:35 PM   #123
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not worth it.

Last edited by Gridlock; 01-12-2013 at 01:44 PM.
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:23 PM   #124
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Everyman's post was edgy, but not enough to deserve points IMO.

While you, you deserved to be banned. Your points have been repeatedly and unequivocally disproven, and you cling to them. There's only one explanation for that, and we all know what it is..
Advice noted.
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:25 AM   #125
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In my eyes, I see three varieties of posts present here.

1. Supportive of First Nations and Aboriginal people (not racist).

These posts are well-informed, and stereotypes hold no water.

2. Critical of First Nations and Aboriginal people (overtly racist).

These posts can be subdivided into two categories:

(a) Deductively analyzing information as it is presented, but not bound by stereotypes (racist tone, but not prejudice).

(b) Conveying a racist agenda, but being subtle to maintain credibility (racist).

3. Agenda against First Nations and Aboriginal people (racist).

I am very supportive of 1 and 2(a), but 2(b) and 3 have no place in society, much less this discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gridlock View Post
not worth it.
Thank you, Gridlock.

Sincerely, I'm happy to see a person who is not First Nations or Aboriginal with such sincere concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graeme S View Post
Advice noted.
Much appreciated, Graeme.

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