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Old 03-28-2013, 01:46 PM   #76
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Little known fact that very few people know about.

If someone is acting in an aggressive manner by having their fists closed, and you ask them to open their fists but don't comply, you are legally allowed to hit them first if you feel if your well being is in danger. Pure self defence.

Kinda handy having a Sensei who was also an ERT members for over twenty years. Every Friday he would do street fighting defence moves (this is a Karate class) and would always give out different tricks of the law to use in your favour when coming across situations.

Personally I'd say it's justified. If you're in the middle of handcuffing someone and that person tries to move their arms as you're slapping on the chains, it's only natural to assuming they're trying to escape. A quick jab to the face shocks the person enough to allow you those extra few moments to finish cuffing them.
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:46 PM   #77
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how much did this guy have to drink before hand? why did he have to mention the guy was sober
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Old 03-28-2013, 03:54 PM   #78
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Little OT...The cyclist's friend is Mike Shwarz...The CEO and Founder of clubzone
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:24 PM   #79
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No matter how it is spun, a strike will always look bad...excessive.

I really think the cyclist got off easy here. The cop could have taken him down to the ground to gain compliance, which is also consistent with use of force models.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:43 PM   #80
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No matter how it is spun, a strike will always look bad...excessive.

I really think the cyclist got off easy here. The cop could have taken him down to the ground to gain compliance, which is also consistent with use of force models.
I was actually looking for him to get taken down. Your right, a strike (to the face) looks more excessive as a way to get compliance than a takedown because you can see him winding up for a punch, but it's much harder to see physical struggle.

It's the same reason why MMA spectators prefer to see standup striking vs grappling or wrestling.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:49 PM   #81
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ITS as obvious as daylight. UNMARKED cop car with a douche inside were bored out of their fukin mind.... figured they will pull over a cyclist without a fukin helmet and give him hard time... cyclist was like WTF losers dont u have a real job to do? cop being super douche putts cuffs on and justifies clocking him one cause the cyclist re-adjusted and was condescending to the cop
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Old 03-28-2013, 05:03 PM   #82
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Oh god, the feels.

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I agree, driving a car is not a right, it's a privilege. Part of the contract of being on the road is you must be insured, and you must have and provide ID and proof of legally being allowed on the road.
However, I don't believe the same is required of a cyclist.
If you can get a VT, then it means you're sharing the roads and are sharing in the privilege. You don't pay for the upkeep but that's because you're not using nearly as much of the infrastructure. If you can get VTs, however, then it means that you are doing something regulated. And anything that is regulated has punishments. I don't know if you can actually ban someone from riding on the streets (I honestly think you should be), but you can get tickets even if you're not on the road. Skytrain tickets anyone? You need to identify yourself truthfully--even if you don't hold an ID.


Honestly, I think we need to make a modified BCID: add a little space for "road-rules" certified. Do you know what the bike signals are for turns and stopping? Do you know that you aren't allowed to ride on sidewalks or through crosswalks; that you can't ride two or more abreast? &c &c. Too many people are riding bikes on the road without even knowing what the hell they're doing.

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Regardless of whether the cyclist is in the wrong or right.....he didn't do anything to warrant getting punched in the face.

If the cop give him a few extra tickets out of spite (no reflector, running red light, no helmet etc) because the cyclist was being a douchebag...thats totally within their rights/powers

Just looks like this cop wasnt good with dealing w/ confrontation.....and decided to take out some anger on this unlucky guy...unlucky for the cop that this was caught on camera...or else this would just get swept under the rug....
"out of spite"? Did you really just say that the cop would give him extra tickets "out of spite" and then list off all the actually illegal things he was doing? I'm pretty sure that giving tickets for illegal activities is not something cops do out of spite. But not giving tickets is something cops do out of leniency.




Now. A lot of people are throwing around words like "justified" "reasonable" and "excessive". I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Was it excessive force? I don't think so. Was it too much? Yeah, I'd probably lean more towards too much rather than excessive. Was he being a dick and all that? Yeah, kind of. Did he deserve it? Maybe a bit. Should the cop have done it? Maybe not.

But let's think of what we consider to be excessive.

In my mind, excessive is something that leaves permanent irreparable damage, or when someone is hospitalized (emergency/ICU/etc) as a result of committing a crime when they were not in possession of a dangerous weapon and/or not actively threatening anyone. Now, this guy had a cut lip at the end. I got mugged about seven years ago and had a 4" cut on my face. Went to emerg. In, out, done. While the cop was an ass, and a douche, and following the word of the 'reasonable force' statute...he may not have been listening to the spirit of it.

There are no winners here, but the long and the short of it is to me: when you fuck up, own up. You'll have fewer problems. As much as it's true to say "this kind of thing shouldn't happen even if you act like a douche!", the easy answer is also "don't act like a douche and this won't happen".
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Old 03-28-2013, 05:26 PM   #83
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what beats me here is the fact that almost everyone here is going on about having a helmet and visibility vest is illegal and ticket-able offense and cyclist are assholes cause they are disobeying the law. Shit im only 27 and from former Yugoslavia and even in my childhood we didn't even know wtf those items were. Now 2 decades later people turned into this fucking covenant about fukin helmets? and how a grown ass man should know better yadda yadda fukin daaaaa.... How many of you were actually wearing any of them when you were kids? wanna bring up the death tolls of youths riding bikes 30 years ago and todays? unfknbvlble


sorry for the rant... i needed some venting :P
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Old 03-28-2013, 05:41 PM   #84
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what beats me here is the fact that almost everyone here is going on about having a helmet and visibility vest is illegal and ticket-able offense and cyclist are assholes cause they are disobeying the law. Shit im only 27 and from former Yugoslavia and even in my childhood we didn't even know wtf those items were. Now 2 decades later people turned into this fucking covenant about fukin helmets? and how a grown ass man should know better yadda yadda fukin daaaaa.... How many of you were actually wearing any of them when you were kids? wanna bring up the death tolls of youths riding bikes 30 years ago and todays? unfknbvlble


sorry for the rant... i needed some venting :P
Lap belts were all that was required 27 years ago, and head rests were not mandatory in cars.


Shit changes.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:10 PM   #85
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There were 2 cops against 1 guy. A cheap shot seems over the top.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:13 PM   #86
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I blame it on all those bike lanes............ and that hipster wannabe but never cannabe, mayor.

Looks like the staged event backfired a bit. Cop getting some support now and dude on bike getting some flak from others.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:30 PM   #87
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Nice posts Bloodline!

The bikers major problem is that he looks like a Muslim/criminal with his beard and shaved head.... and more controversially hes Indian. I dont care if people say the Cop is Indian too, it doesnt mean Cops of the same race cant discriminate.
All of these feelings stem from our media/system/society and you can bet if this guy was more clean cut and looked like Brad Pitt, he may of not been treated like this and public sympathy would be better.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:47 PM   #88
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My newsfeed was cluttered with this video the other day

So, let me get this straight...this guy is riding a bike with no helmet, runs a red light, refuses to give ID, and tries to pull his arm away, yet there's a problem that the cop uses physical force in order to cuff him? Is this a joke? 25 idiots on my Facebook all posted the same thing, which was something like "Fuck the VPD, FTP, Fuck cops, etcetc"

Next time, the cyclist should just refrain from being a dumbass in order to avoid a situation like this.
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:54 PM   #89
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I blame it on all those bike lanes............ and that hipster wannabe but never cannabe, mayor.

Looks like the staged event backfired a bit. Cop getting some support now and dude on bike getting some flak from others.
but we need those bike lanes! how else are we going to get around the city?
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:01 PM   #90
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but we need those bike lanes! how else are we going to get around the city?
You can't public transportation like a normal person? Why must all cyclist break the rules and expect to be treated like royalty?
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:03 PM   #91
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Nice posts Bloodline!

The bikers major problem is that he looks like a Muslim/criminal with his beard and shaved head.... and more controversially hes Indian. I dont care if people say the Cop is Indian too, it doesnt mean Cops of the same race cant discriminate.
All of these feelings stem from our media/system/society and you can bet if this guy was more clean cut and looked like Brad Pitt, he may of not been treated like this and public sympathy would be better.
Or maybe the fact he's breaking rules of the road AND acting like a douche?
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:21 PM   #92
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When you're on a bike, stopping for meaningless red lights makes you lose momentum and much energy. Him not wearing a helmet or biking infront of a speeding car is putting himself in danger.

I think people and specially cops that take these things serious are douchey.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:38 PM   #93
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When you're on a bike, stopping for meaningless red lights makes you lose momentum and much energy.
guess you'll be supporting this one

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Old 03-28-2013, 07:48 PM   #94
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When you're on a bike, stopping for meaningless red lights makes you lose momentum and much energy. Him not wearing a helmet or biking infront of a speeding car is putting himself in danger.

I think people and specially cops that take these things serious are douchey.
And when the douchebag falls and cracks his head and ends up in hospital costing the rest of us a tonne of money........

I honesty don't care if he ends up a vegetable for the rest of his life, but under our society, he gets looked after.

Also, douchebag runs red light and hits my car, he is going to wish he had police protection...........
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:56 PM   #95
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Also, douchebag runs red light and hits my car, he is going to wish he had police protection...........
if he was in richmond, everything woulda taken care of itself
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Old 03-28-2013, 08:44 PM   #96
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i dont want to say this but.. that cop deserve to get puched in the jaw just the way he did.
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:36 PM   #97
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:39 PM   #98
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When you're on a bike, stopping for meaningless red lights...
Yeah, red lights are red for a reason. Or maybe the stop sign that this guy blew through was meaningless too.
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:40 PM   #99
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There were 2 cops against 1 guy. A cheap shot seems over the top.
As opposed to two girls one cop??
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Old 03-28-2013, 09:44 PM   #100
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Posted in FUS thread, belongs here:

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