Canadian politics thread

[hud 91gt]

Really disheartening to see the government step in on the AC FA fiasco. No matter whether you think they should be paid or not, collective bargaining is dead if corporations can expect this over and over again.

Sitting on the other side of the door, I also don’t get paid until we are moving but it’s easier
to stomach making above average wages, not dealing face to face with angry passengers when delays happen. It all evens out in the end. For a new hire FA, wages really are pitiful, and delays can extend your month drastically especially domestically when doing so many legs. It truly takes decades to get that nicer lifestyle.

Rumbles in the group chats show the chair of the CIRB (who will be making the decision whether today’s order was correct or not) worked for AC for years in the legal department with the current head honcho’s. Who doesn’t love a little conflict of interest.

[CivicBlues]

Devli's advocate here, but if wages for entry level FAs are so pitiful, wouldn't the market just adjust eventually? Why isn't AC just getting zero applicants for entry level positions? I mean who is going into these roles nowadays if you can't even survive of the wages? Young women living with their parents who love to travel?

[hud 91gt]

You don’t get to live with your parents. You don’t get a choice of base when you start, you live in one of the several most expensive cities in the Canada and must be able to be at work within a certain time frame (on call/reserve). Some live in “crash pads” full time (weird commuter apartments talked about earlier). I know of a couple who live in their van in the parking lot, waiting for a pairing so they can have a decent night rest.

The glamour is in the travel for them, but that wears off. Vancouver use to be a very senior base (it is in the senior ranks), but it a very junior base in starting ranks due to living costs and poor wages, so that’s where the new people end up this last decade at least.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by CivicBlues

Devli's advocate here, but if wages for entry level FAs are so pitiful, wouldn't the market just adjust eventually? Why isn't AC just getting zero applicants for entry level positions? I mean who is going into these roles nowadays if you can't even survive of the wages? Young women living with their parents who love to travel?

I largely agree with this in the isolated view that wages should reflect supply and demand - if there are people willing to work for some shitty salary then that's just business and tough shit for the workers.

OTOH, there's some salary floor for working people where they make so little that they actually end up affecting the rest of society - the example that's often brought up is that a lot of Walmart workers in the US end up needing food stamps and other gov't handouts in order to make ends meet. Effectively Walmart is being subsidised by the gov't and that's not ok in my books and I don't know how that'd be ok for folks on any side of the political spectrum.

There's some minimum wage level that all workers need to be paid so they can live reasonably especially for jobs that can be careers. I don't know how to create a min wage that works across all industries and all demographics (like how do you account for being young and living with your parents in a cheap city vs living on your own in a HCOL city) but there's some floor where working full time gets you enough income to not need gov't support (in most cases).

From what I can gather Westjet and AC both (and maybe Porter?) pay below minimum wage due to various loopholes - they should be forced to pay at least legislated minimum wages. We forced Uber and Doordash to close that loophole last year for their delivery drivers so we should be able to force airlines to do the same thing.

[Jason00S2000]

The obvious next play here are new aircraft designs with self-serve in-flight meals and service handled by AI and robots. Boom. Imagine the money saved by that airline.

[hud 91gt]

Service is secondary (obviously :P ). They are required for safety reasons and nothing else.

[Jason00S2000]

Originally Posted by hud 91gt

They are required for safety reasons and nothing else.

The airframe should have a detachable passenger section with parachutes in case of emergency, the technology is there for such a thing. Just need a couple of shitty robots to assist passengers instead of annoying fleshbags.

[noclue]

Originally Posted by supafamous

I largely agree with this in the isolated view that wages should reflect supply and demand - if there are people willing to work for some shitty salary then that's just business and tough shit for the workers.

OTOH, there's some salary floor for working people where they make so little that they actually end up affecting the rest of society - the example that's often brought up is that a lot of Walmart workers in the US end up needing food stamps and other gov't handouts in order to make ends meet. Effectively Walmart is being subsidised by the gov't and that's not ok in my books and I don't know how that'd be ok for folks on any side of the political spectrum.

There's some minimum wage level that all workers need to be paid so they can live reasonably especially for jobs that can be careers. I don't know how to create a min wage that works across all industries and all demographics (like how do you account for being young and living with your parents in a cheap city vs living on your own in a HCOL city) but there's some floor where working full time gets you enough income to not need gov't support (in most cases).

From what I can gather Westjet and AC both (and maybe Porter?) pay below minimum wage due to various loopholes - they should be forced to pay at least legislated minimum wages. We forced Uber and Doordash to close that loophole last year for their delivery drivers so we should be able to force airlines to do the same thing.

No shade but why do we have to legislate gig work? it's posed to be a side gig not a job/career.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by noclue

No shade but why do we have to legislate gig work? it's posed to be a side gig not a job/career.

I'm not on the side of what BC did, like you say gig work seems like a side gig, but I think if they're willing to step into that then stepping into jobs like flight attendants (and possibly pilots at the lower end of the wage scale) is certainly something they could/should do as airline jobs are definitely real jobs/careers.

Of course this is provincial vs federal - BC chose to step in on it as they think that's the line, the Feds may not believe this is something they want to be involved with.