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Old 01-17-2012, 07:19 PM   #176
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no, but it happens.. much like underage drinking
yeah but the whole point of this thread is about parents facilitating such behaviour...
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Old 01-17-2012, 07:52 PM   #177
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yeah but the whole point of this thread is about parents facilitating such behaviour...
some of the key points in this thread are:

1) If you don't think your teenagers are in the minority and they don't party or get drunk, then don't facilitate it and dont have "supervised" drinking parties. This sets the tone for them that this is unacceptable etc. Keep in mind that even though you think they won't drink, they may still lie to you and still go out and party.

2) If you do think your kids will party and have drinks, you have the option to A) tell them they shouldn't drink or party, in which case they will party at their friends place or some park or at some location where their are no adults nearby to supervise them. If they do something crazy stupid only they will know about it and the parents will never find out.

or option B) if there is a special event, say it's your son's birthday, and he wants to invite his friends over to your basement and have a party, where alcohol will be consumed, with your son fully aware that mom and pop are upstairs and that if something out-of-line happens, the parents can be there to assist them.

This can also be grounds for disciplining them in the future if something really horrible happens, ie, son your last bday party shiet got out-of-line so we are grounding you or preventing you from hosting any party. This option also gives you a chance to see the type of friends your son/daughter is partying with, and this opens up another topic I won't go into.
This option imho also helps develop your relationship with your son/daughter as well.

In addition, most parents think highly of their kids, and think they are responsible, in which case, a responsible teenager will be fully aware that they can't do anything too crazy and only drink responsibly, otherwise their parents wont let them host future parties, or might ground them etc.



Overall, IMHO both choices are valid depending on the situation I guess, but I think I will choose option B, as my kids will most likely grow up in East Van or some sort and wont be going to some West-side or private school where everyone gets straight As and they never party cause they are too busy studying to get into XYZ Medical/Business school or too ashamed to drink because they have the red face flush etc.
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Old 01-17-2012, 10:39 PM   #178
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2) If you do think your kids will party and have drinks, you have the option to A) tell them they shouldn't drink or party, in which case they will party at their friends place or some park or at some location where their are no adults nearby to supervise them. If they do something crazy stupid only they will know about it and the parents will never find out.

or option B) if there is a special event, say it's your son's birthday, and he wants to invite his friends over to your basement and have a party, where alcohol will be consumed, with your son fully aware that mom and pop are upstairs and that if something out-of-line happens, the parents can be there to assist them.

This can also be grounds for disciplining them in the future if something really horrible happens, ie, son your last bday party shiet got out-of-line so we are grounding you or preventing you from hosting any party. This option also gives you a chance to see the type of friends your son/daughter is partying with, and this opens up another topic I won't go into.
This option imho also helps develop your relationship with your son/daughter as well.


Overall, IMHO both choices are valid depending on the situation I guess, but I think I will choose option B, as my kids will most likely grow up in East Van or some sort and wont be going to some West-side or private school where everyone gets straight As and they never party cause they are too busy studying to get into XYZ Medical/Business school or too ashamed to drink because they have the red face flush etc.


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...

So someones parents think they can give my retarded teenager a facility to get high? they better be careful that I never, ever, find out, where the fuck do they get off thinking they can do that?

Well the thing is they're only concerned with condoning /controlling / monitoring their own kid, with drug & alcohol use they're just allowing other kids there so that they can better care for their own kid; they're not gonna give a damn if Your kid starts fucking up or going too far they'll simply say "what a shame" and use it as an example to their own kid "see jimmy/sally you dont want to end up like that"

Ive got no real problem with a parent facilitating their own childs experimentation; i think its fucking stupid and i would gladly call child services on them but i wouldn't intervene beyond that

...


there are 2 extremes, if you fall in the middle? whatever i guess? maybe you could have been more? if you end up on top, congratulations! if you end up in the dump who gives a fuck right? you got this

people in the thread dont seem to have an issue really with what a parent decides for their own kid (sure there are qualms about it) what is getting on everyones nerves is the parent facilitating other peoples kids, i can understand your side and i can see how it would be good for Your kid but you're not raising mine
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:08 PM   #179
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but at the same time it's immoral to teach a young kid that smoking and drinking is okay
Morals are different for everyone. Many Quebec parents allow their teenage children to sleep in the same room as their partner - something that my parents won't allow me to do as an adult.

Thus moral arguments are weak, cause everyone's morals are different. That's why I prefer fact, not opinion.
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:23 PM   #180
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people in the thread dont seem to have an issue really with what a parent decides for their own kid (sure there are qualms about it) what is getting on everyones nerves is the parent facilitating other peoples kids, i can understand your side and i can see how it would be good for Your kid but you're not raising mine
It depends where you grow up I guess.
When I was in high school, your "son" would go to my son's party, and you would never found out about it, and even if you did, you wouldn't care, cause that's how it was where I was growing up. And if your the type of parent that would care, your son would never tell you, for fear of being outkast/bullied by friends or people at school.

Kids never want to be unpopular at school. It's like an unwritten code. Plus if child services or anything like that ever calls, I'll just say my kid told me he was having a party downstairs, I didnt want to be a party pooper so I had "no idea" they had booze down there.

It's like parents spanking their kids back in the day. Usually nothing happens to the parents.
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:25 PM   #181
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^ P.S Stylinred, I'm not saying your way of raising kids is the right or wrong way, I'm just saying most parents are very naive when it comes to their kids.
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:27 PM   #182
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Morals are different for everyone. Many Quebec parents allow their teenage children to sleep in the same room as their partner - something that my parents won't allow me to do as an adult.

Thus moral arguments are weak, cause everyone's morals are different. That's why I prefer fact, not opinion.
Where in the fuck does "Quebec parents" have anything to do with that? My ex gf's mom would let me sleep over all the time in high school whereas my parents wouldn't. I know lots of parents who would and would not allow that to happen during high school years.
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:35 PM   #183
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It depends where you grow up I guess.
When I was in high school, your "son" would go to my son's party, and you would never found out about it, and even if you did, you wouldn't care, cause that's how it was where I was growing up. And if your the type of parent that would care, your son would never tell you, for fear of being outkast/bullied by friends or people at school.

Kids never want to be unpopular at school. It's like an unwritten code. Plus if child services or anything like that ever calls, I'll just say my kid told me he was having a party downstairs, I didnt want to be a party pooper so I had "no idea" they had booze down there.

It's like parents spanking their kids back in the day. Usually nothing happens to the parents.
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:35 PM   #184
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... everyone speeds whether it's 1 km over the limit or more, no one cares either

driving dangerously is what matters

same thing with drugs and alcohol i guess, in moderation it's not going to hurt you

but at the same time it's immoral to teach a young kid that smoking and drinking is okay
What's the difference then? you know your kid will speed. My parents thought me to drive, i never went to an instructor etc. They told me to drive with the speed of traffic and never too fast, which in essence is telling me I can go over the speed limit. Yet they told me to not drive too fast otherwise it's dangerous.

Isn't the same thing with booze?, social drinking is basically acceptable in western societies, people watch a hockey/football game while drinking a beer. They have wine with dinner. Can't you tell your teenagers the same thing, drink a bit, but dont drink too much cause it's dangerous, ie. moderation. I have faith in my kid that he will be smart, mature and responsible enough to drink in moderation.

I'm not saying I'll let my 10 year old drink, but when he's mature enough (15-17) etc, I'll let him drink.
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:40 PM   #185
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I grew up in smaller towns in Alberta and BC, and not major cities, and this was how it was in these types of high schools.

I find it very strange that many of my friends who grew up in vancouver never had or experience the "american pie/superbad" type house parties where there are girls in bikinis and hot tubs and 50+ people in the house.
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Old 01-17-2012, 11:50 PM   #186
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WTF! I got my fail button taken away because of this thread??!!? Alpha was saying A LOT of dumb shit, he deserved every one of my fails

I'm 22 years old, so i'm pretty sure I have a better grasp on "youth" than most of the old timers on here. It's been said sooooo many times already, but kids will drink no matter what the parents say, it's inevitable. It's like all the anti-smoking ads that actually increased the amount of youth smoking. Think of the Adam and Eve story with the "forbidden fruit", they could have any fruit they wanted, but the fact they were told not to eat the special fruit made them want it even more. Ever hear of something called reverse psychology???...kid's will drink no matter what, whether it be in a park, behind school, etc. The upside of it being parent approved is that it stops the kids from driving home, stops randoms from showing up at party's (which usually ends up in a fight/things being stolen), keeps the kids from getting completely out of control because they know somebody's parents are upstairs.

I was at some huge festivals in Italy and I say tons of bartenders serving 15-16 year old kids. It's pretty normal in Europe, why is it in North America that everybody tries to shelter their kids so much. I also spent my life in private religious schools, lets just say, the kids that were most sheltered and innocent growing up seriously fucked their lives up after high school, i'm talking SERIOUS coke/e/alcohol problems. You can only shelter kids for so long, because they're eventually going to enter the "real world" and it's going to overwhelm them.

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Old 01-17-2012, 11:58 PM   #187
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WTF! I got my fail button taken away because of this thread??!!? Alpha was saying A LOT of dumb shit, he deserved every one of my fails

I'm 22 years old, so i'm pretty sure I have a better grasp on "youth" than most of the old timers on here. It's been said sooooo many times already, but kids will drink no matter what the parents say, it's inevitable. It's like all the anti-smoking ads that actually increased the amount of youth smoking. Think of the Adam and Eve story with the "forbidden fruit", they could have any fruit they wanted, but the fact they were told not to eat the special fruit made them want it even more. Ever hear of something called reverse psychology???...kid's will drink no matter what, whether it be in a park, behind school, etc. The upside of it being parent approved is that it stops the kids from driving home, stops randoms from showing up at party's (which usually ends up in a fight/things being stolen), keeps the kids from getting completely out of control because they know somebody's parents are upstairs.

I was at some huge festivals in Italy and I say tons of bartenders serving 15-16 year old kids. It's pretty normal in Europe, why is it in North America that everybody tries to shelter their kids so much. I also spent my life in private religious schools, lets just say, the kids that were most sheltered and innocent growing up seriously fucked their lives up after high school, i'm talking SERIOUS coke/e/alcohol problems. You can only shelter kids for so long, because they're eventually going to enter the "real world" and it's going to overwhelm them.

/rant
+ 1 , Thank you

It's somewhat due to the culture and race of people here is what I'm thinking.
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:04 AM   #188
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people in the thread dont seem to have an issue really with what a parent decides for their own kid (sure there are qualms about it) what is getting on everyones nerves is the parent facilitating other peoples kids, i can understand your side and i can see how it would be good for Your kid but you're not raising mine
Knowing that kids are going to be drinking anyways, it's inevitable, I would love it if my kids drink at their friend's house with their parents being present. I don't have to be "on watch" and I know that somewhere will be there to ensure they will be responsible rather then them drinking at a park or school.
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:16 AM   #189
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+ 1 , Thank you

It's somewhat due to the culture and race of people here is what I'm thinking.
I got a feeling they spent every weekend on the computer, playing video games, or studying (so they could get get A's and please their "supportive" families for fear of being grounded/disowned had they gotten B's) while everybody else was enjoying their youth.

I'm just pissed at my fail button being taken away!!
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:23 AM   #190
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yes... because we all know teens will rebel so lets foster and support that rebellion....

that's a defeatist attitude... but hey i can see how people would think that's the best way to go about it and it might work out alright but again that's fine for your kid but dont let my kid be involved since you won't be parenting them you'll only be parenting yours and facilitating mine


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Knowing that kids are going to be drinking anyways, it's inevitable, I would love it if my kids drink at their friend's house with their parents being present. I don't have to be "on watch" and I know that somewhere will be there to ensure they will be responsible rather then them drinking at a park or school.
they wont be watching your kid... they'll just make sure your kid doesn't fuck up their home...
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:24 AM   #191
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Okay....I said it before and several others have said it as well.

We are all arguing different topics.

Topic of the thread: Is it cool to have kids party in your basement that you did not spawn. Is there a liability for said parent should a kid that is not yours get hurt/sick/killed, etc. or is there a moral issue if that kids parents with not aware that you were allowing their kid to drink/drug underage.

Somewhat off topic, but related: Do you allow JUST your underage kid to drink with your supervision. How far do ya go? What lesson does that teach? Does it aid in their future judgement?

Mostly off topic, but can be tied back to thread: Teen sex and allowing you kid's SO to spend the night.....and Taylor192 knocks boots with a sex-ed teacher.

Off topic: What the "cool kids" are doing these days. Random...but good to know, I guess. The "Asian" thing a few pages back and related cultural or ethic references.

WAY off topic: Speeding vs. driving the speed limit.

Creepy WAY off topic: Sleeping with your parents.

My current topic: I just painted my nails and can't sleep until they are dry....first world problem.

Shall we pick one and discuss so we don't sound like a bunch of STUPID (for you Taylor192) people? I, for one, would like to discuss my nails...anyone?
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:26 AM   #192
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My current topic: I just painted my nails and can't sleep until they are dry....first world problem.
pics of your nails?
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:32 AM   #193
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Spoiler!


...now this thread is

Last edited by dinosaur; 06-08-2013 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:36 AM   #194
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You realize it starts all innocent-like by asking for pictures of your nails... but then it will slowly escalate to pictures of maybe the latest haircut you had. Then it'll be of you on vacation while suntanning. And from there, it's the inevitable "Tits or gtfo!" request.

Just sayin'...
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:38 AM   #195
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BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Noted. Grid will keep me in line
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:41 AM   #196
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You realize it starts all innocent-like by asking for pictures of your nails... but then it will slowly escalate to pictures of maybe the latest haircut you had. Then it'll be of you on vacation while suntanning. And from there, it's the inevitable "Tits or gtfo!" request.

Just sayin'...
You make me sound like the bad guy now..
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Old 01-18-2012, 12:50 AM   #197
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Guess I should finally go back and answer this...

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I don't dispute the logic, but I have a question. Did everyone else's parents know what was happening? I suspect not.

I would have your head if you were making those decisions for my child. Dino's parents said about as much 10 years later now that the cat is out of the bag. I continually advocate not imposing ones beliefs on another, and this is a clear example. Here we have some kids that are raised in a stricter household, that other parents obviously disagree with, so lets cut them out of the picture and provide a safe environment for you. Great ideals, but damned ugly in the details.

I don't want my kids to drink underage. I accept that they may want to try, and I view it as my RESPONSIBILITY to prevent them. Yes, I would prefer it to occur in a safe environment as opposed to in the back seat of a car somewhere, but my main issue is I don't want it to occur in the first place.

I fully agree with the age 19 legal limit. If I've done my job well, by the time you hit 19 you should know whats safe, and whats not safe and how to make responsible decisions.
While my parents were unaware of what was going on, I know many other parents did. I never told mine because they were pretty strict about certain things and would have frowned upon me attending such an event.

That said, they did give me the random alcoholic drink once in a while. Sometimes it was a glass of wine during a big family dinner, while other times it was a beer as we watched a hockey game at home. They would never go out and buy me booze if I asked for it when I was underage, but they never taught me that Alcohol = Bad. Drugs and smoking, yes, they were pretty damn fierce about that, but at least they were somewhat lenient on this.


Edit: I should add that I never become much of a drinker. Sure, I had a few party hard days, but those were few and far between. Even today, I rarely drink and if I do, it's maaaaybe one beer while watching the game or a glass of Bailey's on the rocks while working on the car.

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I really hate the "its too hard, let's just give up" philosophy regarding a lot of these things. Teen sex. There's a huge one. Yes, abstinence only education policies don't work. I get that. In school, I was taught a "abstinence with education" format.

Sample:

"Hey! abstinence is the best way to avoid disease and pregnancy. Condoms work like this."

No one advocated one over the other. And I had a teacher that was very real in her dialogue, and still never made that link to "if you are going to do it, do it this way"

If a child comes to me and says, "I'd like to go on the pill", let's get it done. I'm going to talk to you about safety and decisions and all the rest, but we'll get it done. They've made the decision, and they have thought about the consequences. I've already done my work at this point! They've come to me. Taking a child and saying, "you are 14, let's cover birth control" is a parental approved license to screw.

Taking your child, and other people's children and giving them a parental approved license to drink is playing with fire.

And I can't help think a lot of it is wanting to be the "cool" parents.

If I can't raise a child that is capable of at least for a second thinking about tomorrow as opposed to just today, and think of consequences of their decisions even if they aren't fully understanding the long-range ramifications then I guess I do have to give up and say, here, be safe about it.

But a parent, any good parent, should never give up on their kids.
I don't think it has anything to do with wanting to be a "cool" parent. The majority of members here are somewhere between their late-teens and early-thirties. Most of us aren't old enough to have kids that fall under the topic we're currently talking about. The thing is that we all know, or remember, what it's like to be fifteen and dealing with peer pressure. Most of us want to be able to pass our experiences and knowledge down to our own children. However, we also remember exactly how stubborn we were towards our parents. We thought that they knew nothing about growing up, or at least had completely forgotten. And even if we knew, there's still something about that age that makes us ignore any useful advice they may have. For the most part, I don't blame today's parents. Every generation has the "When I was your age, kids didn't do..." saying. We all think that our generation is better than the upcoming one. But if you've ever sat down and talked with a bunch of Gen-X'er parents, and even their parents, things were more or less the same. Yes, different world climates had an affect on things, but there was always underage drinking, there were always kids thinking their parents didn't understand them, and there were always kids sneaking away and doing shit that they were forbidden to do.

I'll add one observation, though. Today's nanny state and idiotic rampantness (that's not even a word, is it?) of political correctness has had a bit of an impact on the current up-coming generation.
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You make me sound like the bad guy now..


It wasn't aimed at you specifically. It was a general observation of Revscene as a whole.

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BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Noted. Grid will keep me in line
I wonder if he'd be willing to turn a blind eye if I offered to adjust his user title...
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Old 01-18-2012, 01:02 AM   #199
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I wonder if he'd be willing to turn a blind eye if I offered to adjust his user title...
NOOOOooooo! I think he secretly loves it
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Old 01-18-2012, 08:49 AM   #200
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Creepy WAY off topic: Sleeping with your parents.
Jus sayin'
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