Electric and Hybrid Car Thread

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by radeonboy

The premium Chinese brands like XPeng and Zeekr are pretty much in line with Volvo / Lexus in terms of exterior build quality and interior fit and finish. I think something like Polestar in NA should just replace their hot-mess lineup with rebranded Zeekr models since they're both owned by Geely.

I’m currently in Hong Kong and had the opportunity to try the new Zeekr 7X. The loaded model is priced like a Model Y AWD but feature-wise is packaged closer to a loaded IX / EQE. Compared to the iX that we also test drove, handling was the only thing the iX was better at from a driving POV - the 7X was practically better at everything else.

The only big asterisk I have now with Chinese EVs is what their after-sales support is like in terms of longevity or repairability after the warranty period (4 years, 80k general warranty, 8-year battery warranty) ends. But from speaking with current 1st-time Chinese EV owners, the purchase cost savings is enough to get another new EV sometime after the warranty period and still be ahead over getting a comparable 'foreign' model.

Honestly, this has become of problem even with NA/European car manufacturers.

We're coming to the point where cars will be like phones, once your lease/contract period is up, you trade it in and get a new one.

It's nuts, but here we are.

[whitev70r]

^ that is the dark side of 'clean energy' ... unless there is a good way of recycling these big ass batteries ...

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

Honestly, this has become of problem even with NA/European car manufacturers.

We're coming to the point where cars will be like phones, once your lease/contract period is up, you trade it in and get a new one.

It's nuts, but here we are.

With electric cars, this is the sad truth.

But EV adoption is slowing as there have been data that's showing even adopters are shifting back towards gas cars.

And also it's been super quiet on the Tesla Semi front, is there anything new coming from it? For awhile we were seeing videos and such of it in action, but lately it's been completely quiet.

[Traum]

Except for the 1st and 2nd gen Nissan Leafs, batteries are supposed to last for the duration of the EV though, isn't it?

Of course, the boring stories of someone doing 200k km on their original battery is anything but exciting to the news media. The spontaneous EV fires and one innocuous-looking dent on the underside are what catches people's attention.

[noclue]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

With electric cars, this is the sad truth.

But EV adoption is slowing as there have been data that's showing even adopters are shifting back towards gas cars.

And also it's been super quiet on the Tesla Semi front, is there anything new coming from it? For awhile we were seeing videos and such of it in action, but lately it's been completely quiet.

You see some tesla semis in northern california but i'm sure pepsi signed a NDA about the semi's efficiency and reliability. Not the widespread last-mile revolution that an RS user predicts.... where's the roadster again?

[whitev70r]

Originally Posted by noclue

where's the roadster again?

in the same design bin as the $20K EV promised yrs ago.

[supafamous]

Without the rebates the math on EVs can get pretty tough unless you're driving a lot (like >20,000km/yr). Add in depreciation that's far higher than a ICE car and the reasons to get one start getting short.

Example:

2026 CR-V Touring: $61k (all-in) ($54k before tax)
2025 Ioniq 5 Preferred AWD w/Ultimate package: $74k ($66k before tax)

On Autotrader you can get a 2022 Ioniq 5 for $44k (https://www.autotrader.ca/a/hyundai/...me=basicSearch) while a 2023 CR-V Touring goes for about $45k (https://www.autotrader.ca/a/honda/cr...advancedSearch)

That's 33% depreciation on the Hyundai over ~3y and 17% depreciation on the Honda over ~2y (figure ~25% over 3 years). That's a $11k gap on top of the $13k you paid extra at the beginning so $24k cost diff in the first 3 years of ownership.

If you're driving 20,000km/yr the CR-V will cost you about $2500 in gas a year versus maybe $500(? total guess) in electricity with the Ioniq but with lower maintenance costs - let's just say $2500 diff a year in operating costs - it'll take 9+ years to close the gap. It's way worse if you only drive 8,000km/y like I do.

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by supafamous

Without the rebates the math on EVs can get pretty tough unless you're driving a lot (like >20,000km/yr). Add in depreciation that's far higher than a ICE car and the reasons to get one start getting short.

Example:

2026 CR-V Touring: $61k (all-in) ($54k before tax)
2025 Ioniq 5 Preferred AWD w/Ultimate package: $74k ($66k before tax)

On Autotrader you can get a 2022 Ioniq 5 for $44k (https://www.autotrader.ca/a/hyundai/...me=basicSearch) while a 2023 CR-V Touring goes for about $45k (https://www.autotrader.ca/a/honda/cr...advancedSearch)

That's 33% depreciation on the Hyundai over ~3y and 17% depreciation on the Honda over ~2y (figure ~25% over 3 years). That's a $11k gap on top of the $13k you paid extra at the beginning so $24k cost diff in the first 3 years of ownership.

If you're driving 20,000km/yr the CR-V will cost you about $2500 in gas a year versus maybe $500(? total guess) in electricity with the Ioniq but with lower maintenance costs - let's just say $2500 diff a year in operating costs - it'll take 9+ years to close the gap. It's way worse if you only drive 8,000km/y like I do.

It's definitely not worthwhile when you are comparing the lower end of vehicles. In the high end stuff it starts making more sense with an asterisk.

(I ain't got time to math it out, but....)
A X5 and a iX costs roughly the same new considering the options. I'd say they would be direct replacements. Maintenance is nil for a lease as BMW includes free maintenance for the first 3 years.

A X5 would cost you around $120 to drive 350km, the iX gets around 4-5km/kw. At the higher cost of 14c per kw, lets say 80kw to drive the 350km, it'll cost you $11.2 for the same distance.

The EV nets you savings right off the bat, but at the same time, the target demo for a $120k SUV isn't going to care too much about fuel costs.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

A X5 would cost you around $120 to drive 350km, the iX gets around 4-5km/kw. At the higher cost of 14c per kw, lets say 80kw to drive the 350km, it'll cost you $11.2 for the same distance.

The EV nets you savings right off the bat, but at the same time, the target demo for a $120k SUV isn't going to care too much about fuel costs.

So for 20,000km a year the fuel cost is about $7k vs <$1k. I imagine that diff is washed out by depreciation or at least after depreciation it might be close enough to not care. But if I drove only 8,000km that doesn't look as good.

A quick scan for 2023 X5 and iX's show a X5 is about $80k and a iX is about $65-70k - so let's say it's about $5-8k diff in depreciation a year.

So close enough that it could be a wash for a pretty well off owner.

[JDMDreams]

Bro who's buying crvs for $61000

[JDMDreams]

Also I don't know of one EV person who has went back to gas.

[Traum]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

Bro who's buying crvs for $61000

A CRV hybrid already starts at $49k, with the top trim being $54k. So once taxes and fees are included, you aren't really that far away from a $61k CRV.

I don't think most new CRVs out there are the hybrid model, but I have seen a few of them around.

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by JDMDreams

Also I don't know of one EV person who has went back to gas.

Vancouver is a weird place. We are almost perfectly setup for EV domination with high gas prices and low electricity costs, in addition to being a more libtard city

You move elsewhere the the equation changes drastically, for example in Cali where gas prices are high for NA or low compared to us, and electricity costs are much higher. The gap on day to day use is much narrower, but being in the states they have a different set of incentives and dealers certain states were literally GIVING EVs away (I saw an anecdote of an iX, ~70k car in the states, 20k off, and people were leasing them for like $250/m, kind of similar to how Pornstar were giving away their Pornstar 2's here).

* funny backstory about Polestar/Pornstar. They were doing test drives when the 2 came out. I told my wife about it, and her response was, "What, you can test drive a pornstar? How? Where?"
"Polestar, not pornstar, it's a car."
"OH!!!!"

[GLOW]

i keep hearing EV's have terrible resale value, but i don't really see cheap EV's in the lower mainland. maybe there is but still too expensive to me and i'm cheap

[twitchyzero]

^ the ones out of warranty has really dropped like a rock (a fraction of their msrp)

i wouldnt say dirt dirt cheap but a bit more normalized depreication than what we've seen over covid shortages

[EvoSpider]

Part of the EV depreciation is from the 9k govt rebates, no?

[Hakkaboy]

Originally Posted by EvoFire

With electric cars, this is the sad truth.

But EV adoption is slowing as there have been data that's showing even adopters are shifting back towards gas cars.

And also it's been super quiet on the Tesla Semi front, is there anything new coming from it? For awhile we were seeing videos and such of it in action, but lately it's been completely quiet.

You'll probably hear about something new and exiting and coming soon on the horizon any time the Tesla stock takes a prolonged beating.

Elon is a master stock manipulator.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by GLOW

i keep hearing EV's have terrible resale value, but i don't really see cheap EV's in the lower mainland. maybe there is but still too expensive to me and i'm cheap

It's all relative - ICE cars are barely depreciating. My 6 year old RDX was $50k new (July 2019) and I was offered $30k on trade 6 months ago by Destination Honda. There's no way an EV holds value that well.

[bcrdukes]

Recent article in The Globe & Mail suggesting used car prices are rising.

Originally Posted by The Globe & Mail

Used vehicle prices jumped 3.6 per cent year-over-year in June, hovering at an average of $37,664, the report shows. That’s compared with a 12-per-cent dip in the used car market throughout 2024.

On the other hand, new vehicle prices dipped about 3.5 per cent year-over-year in June, to $64,445.

“It’s not what we expected to see,” said Baris Akyurek, vice-president of insights and intelligence at AutoTrader, about both used and new cars. “Usually, [used car] prices start on the higher side, and come down throughout the year,” he added, while new car prices usually go up slightly, commensurate with inflation.

[CP.AR]

I love my EV

but don't buy a merc. If it didn't fit my occasional fringe use case, I wouldn't have bought it.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Traum

A CRV hybrid already starts at $49k, with the top trim being $54k. So once taxes and fees are included, you aren't really that far away from a $61k CRV.

I don't think most new CRVs out there are the hybrid model, but I have seen a few of them around.

Honda reports that over half of CR-V sales are they hybrid model - they don't break out whether it's just the Touring trim or the newly added EX-L Hybrid trim though (the Sport Trim can be had as a hybrid for 2026) (https://hondanews.com/en-US/honda-au...rt-hybrid-trim)

For 2026 the cheapest hybrid version they have is still $55k all-in (sport) with the Touring at $61k all in. None of which come with a panoramic sunroof or ventilated seats! CR-Vs are now a lot more expensive than their competition - a loaded RAV4, CX-5 or Rogue is in the low-mid 50s all-in for example but it doesn't seem to affect their sales much at all.

[underscore]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

Honestly, this has become of problem even with NA/European car manufacturers.

Some of them have been like that for a long time, even back in 2016 Chrysler had dropped support for a 9 year old vehicle while I had no problems sourcing things for a 25 year old Toyota.

[EvoFire]

Originally Posted by supafamous

Honda reports that over half of CR-V sales are they hybrid model - they don't break out whether it's just the Touring trim or the newly added EX-L Hybrid trim though (the Sport Trim can be had as a hybrid for 2026) (https://hondanews.com/en-US/honda-au...rt-hybrid-trim)

For 2026 the cheapest hybrid version they have is still $55k all-in (sport) with the Touring at $61k all in. None of which come with a panoramic sunroof or ventilated seats! CR-Vs are now a lot more expensive than their competition - a loaded RAV4, CX-5 or Rogue is in the low-mid 50s all-in for example but it doesn't seem to affect their sales much at all.

It's crazy because before the redesign, the CRV was the cheaper one, being able to get out the door for roughly the same as a CX5.

[RabidRat]

Originally Posted by supafamous

It's all relative - ICE cars are barely depreciating. My 6 year old RDX was $50k new (July 2019) and I was offered $30k on trade 6 months ago by Destination Honda. There's no way an EV holds value that well.

Our 5 year old i3 was $60k new (Dec 2020), and now it's worth about $20k.

That would've been horrible, except that I'd stacked:

1. $1k dealership haggling
2. $15k corporate discount
3. $6k Costco rebate
4. $10k US federal EV rebate
5. $1.4k San Mateo county EV rebate
6. $1.1k PG&E power company EV rebate

=$35k in discounts

So the depreciation was only $5k over 5 years, which means EVs do hold their value!!

[bcrdukes]

You kind of answered it in your post, but hypothetically, if you had none of the discounts above, would you feel the same way about EVs holding their value well?