REVscene Automotive Forum - Electric and Hybrid Car Thread

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Just a point, the current ES is made in kentucky, while the crown is made in Japan which may explain the build quality discrepancies. The nextgen ES is made in japan and has similar proportions as the crown.

How’s the newer inline 6 turbo engine on the AMG Mercs like the E53 and stuff? I see a lot of them around recently and was bemused by it being an inline 6 which you don’t see much anymore

Quote:

Originally Posted by 68style (Post 9193349)

How’s the newer inline 6 turbo engine on the AMG Mercs like the E53 and stuff? I see a lot of them around recently and was bemused by it being an inline 6 which you don’t see much anymore

It's fast but the MB implementation of 48V electrical is even worse than Stellantis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcrdukes (Post 9193343)

My experience and observations are probably two years old now, so it's likely not relevant anymore. But when we test drove the 2023 Crown and the ES250h (hybrid) the dashboard on the Crown was much more thoughtful and streamlined as opposed to the ES250h at the time.

The dashboard on the ES had wider gaps and holes, leaving for dust to collect, and the overall fit and finish, and materials, stitching, and feel of materials were observably nicer on the Crown. The seats in the ES (at the time) felt dated and just "okay." They are not the same, but the ride quality on the Crown was way smoother than that of the ES. It handles bumps more nicely and was responsive to weight transfer when entering corners. The car didn't feel like it was going to float, unless you drove like a maniac. Crown felt like it was just waltzing through the corners. The Crown's interior was larger too, with lots of room up front and in the rear. We often get out-of-town guests visiting, so we want to be able to drive them around and take them to the usual tourist traps like Niagara Falls etc. The ES was a close second in terms of rear passenger space, but it wasn't anything to write home about. Perhaps a Camry would be of better value.

Could it be that the ES has since changed? Maybe. I don't personally know because I don't follow Lexus that closely and the ES is not a vehicle that's on our radar. Badhobz suggested I try the ES350 for a comparison and to help guide our decision, but the dealership only had the ES250h, and I'm glad it happened this way so we could compare two hybrids back to back. I wished I had paid more close attention to the ES because it was something for us to consider as a daily driver, but the Crown did it for us. My preferences are still for an ICE engine, and I know, the benefits of hybrid have been beaten to death here, but it's not the north star to influence our next vehicle purchase.

Re: Dodge being stolen. It's a serious problem here in Toronto, next to the Lexus RX cars being stolen non-stop. Insurance premiums are insane for these cars and people have resorted to wild ideas to prevent theft. It's not a way I want to live and the consequences, both emotional and financial, are not worth it. I really liked the Challenger, but it doesn't meet the requirements of our use case and long-term ownership goals.

Oh interesting, seems like people aren't that happy with the ES seats.

1) Hybrid doesn't get Ultra Luxury trim
2) Luxury trim is a must for Mark Levinson, laminated glass, nicer woods/leathers
3) F Sport and L/UL Trims have different seats

This is where the value proposition goes a long way in the Crown. You have two trims and the difference between the two are powertrain and seats. On the Lexus, you have to contend with the three trims and dissatisfaction of the seats and Made in America.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD (Post 9193350)

It's fast but the MB implementation of 48V electrical is even worse than Stellantis.

Aren’t random electrical problems a rite of passage for any modern Merc? :fuckyea:

E53 is just a e450 isn't it? And I never got what a 48v system does. It's seems like a very useless baby hybrid?

48V means way smaller cables/motors, way more capability.

Smaller = MB can package an Inline 6 in V6 space.
Steering, AC, water pump, supercharger, all run on 48V instead of a belt

More Powerful = you can do cool shit.
Turbo has electric motor to spool it, way less lag.
Suspension has hella power, can raise the car to improve side impact crahs.
Regen gets much stronger and normal gas cars can have instant and smooth auto stop start.

New E53 is PHEV.
161HP electric motor means 604 HP, compared to 429hp before.

Now this is pretty cool. We need to drop those tariffs stat.

Y'all be ripping on Stellantis quality while Chinese EV ship in under 9 months, no validation, terrible ride quality/NVH.

i dun know, ive never driven one and i suspect neither have you. Like most things chinese, you get what you pay for. im sure that luxury van with the tilting/swiveling seats has good NVH and ride quality.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD (Post 9193415)

Y'all be ripping on Stellantis quality while Chinese EV ship in under 9 months, no validation, terrible ride quality/NVH.

General population - "Good enough" :derp:

Revscene - :failed: :moderatorban: :seriously:

Like the Ioniq 5 when it first came out, all the rage, Tesla competition, blah blah blah.

But after about a year, hearing lots of issues and reliability. Used Ioniq 5 prices plummeting.

Where's that jerkbag dark0821 who hyped up the Ioniq 5 to us. :troll:

Quote:

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD (Post 9193415)

Y'all be ripping on Stellantis quality while Chinese EV ship in under 9 months, no validation, terrible ride quality/NVH.

Out of curiosity, what have you driven from the Chinese OEMs?

Drove BYD Seal - it's worse than the Model 3 pre-highland UX, suspension, auto drive, etc.

That's saying something because the Model 3 pre-highland drives like shit!

isnt that the cheapest piece of shit they have? seal ? bird? dolphin whale?

but the byd cockroach is also 1/2 the cost of the model 3. its like a 20k car or something.

BYD seal is like nissan leaf territory.

No it’s not cheaper, Prices in Australia and Mexico are within 10% of each other.
~50k range in AUS and ~800k pesos for either.

Is it last gen stuff? Sure but it’s also top selling EV in China.
People are really glazing Chinese EVs that are 10% cheaper and 40% worse.

On newer gen, the Zeekr golden batteries are bricking & the Xiaomi fake brakes/seats can’t pass crash test.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD (Post 9193429)

Drove BYD Seal - it's worse than the Model 3 pre-highland UX, suspension, auto drive, etc.

That's saying something because the Model 3 pre-highland drives like shit!

I mean, that's kinda like taking a Mitsubishi Mirage for a spin and declaring all Japanese cars are bad.

I agree with you that there are awful Chinese cars, but the Chinese brands do cover the range from Flintstone-mobiles to proper luxury models rivaling legacy European OEMs. I also agree that Chinese OEM quality remains to be seen on a long-term basis, but many are okay with the gamble in exchange for paying half the price of a comparable legacy OEM car.

Closer to your Tesla comparison, I test drove a Zeekr 7X AWD (AWD doesn't use the golden battery) recently. It's priced the same price as a Model Y Juniper AWD (using Hong Kong in my example) but runs circles around it in terms of performance and creature comforts (640HP, air suspension, akebono brakes, massage seats etc.). It's practically an iX M60 at the price of a MY LR - the Tesla really feels like a toy in comparison.

I'll just leave this here, I assume this is under $30000 and made it to over 300,000 km.

https://i.imgur.com/x8jysu9.jpeg

Moar China hobz

https://i.imgur.com/b4Q6cv8.jpeg

https://i.imgur.com/bXzu0wi.jpeg

Quote:

Originally Posted by radeonboy (Post 9193442)

I mean, that's kinda like taking a Mitsubishi Mirage for a spin and declaring all Japanese cars are bad.

I agree with you that there are awful Chinese cars, but the Chinese brands do cover the range from Flintstone-mobiles to proper luxury rivals.

Closer to your Tesla comparison, I test drove a Zeekr 7X AWD recently. It's priced the same price as a Model Y Juniper AWD but runs circles around it in terms of performance and creature comforts (640HP, air suspension, akebono brakes, massage seats etc.). It's practically an iX M60 at the price of a MY LR - the Tesla really feels like a toy in comparison.

Is it really a mirage if it’s only 10% less than the model 3?
I’m taking the average case scenario, for a car that’s received more R&D and validation than the others.

The Zeekr golden batteries are bricking and having charge rate severely limited.
He got big on social media for a bit, that all traces of that discussion mysteriously disappeared.

From my exp in auto engineering, this stuff isn't getting validated before it ships out the door.
Polestar are finally validating that battery.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AstulzerRZD (Post 9193441)

but arent the price you looking at already including the tariffs applied to chinese cars?

in china its 109,800 yuen for a seal. model 3 prices are 235,500.

yeah for sure not 10% cheaper. its 1/2 the price and even if its 40% worse, its HALF THE PRICE.

Aus has no tariff , it’s an open market