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Old 03-22-2013, 11:06 AM   #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gridlock View Post
Question:

What economic/business benefit is there to having a Chinese(or any other non-english language) only sign?

**Please answer as clearly as possible, and as short as possible. Please make your answer stay within the economic/business realm. Ultimately, a business has as a primary purpose to create product and sell for profit. Please demonstrate how Chinese only signs assist in the generation of extra revenue and/or profit.
I'll bite since I already posted something on it and it got lost in all the craziness. I'll actually just repost it... It's really specific but it demonstrates the point.

Quote:
This. In one article there was one guy, his store ONLY sells books in Chinese. What do you want to change his store name to? "Chinese Book Store"? What a waste of money for the owner. How far can this language issue go? Make the store start carrying books in English?

Bringing this back to the signs... A lot of the signage in Richmond does have english. The difference is that the english is probably on a different panel so it LOOKS like there's no english on it but really the english is right beside it.
Has anyone in this thread even gone out to Richmond to see how many CHINESE ONLY signs there are? I'm willing to bet there are less than 15 and they are chinese only for a reason (see example above).

Another issue is real estate mail outs. People were complaining that they were only in Chinese. Well flip the damn thing over, it's probably in English on the other side.

Lets be real here. Everyone arguing in this thread is just wanting to vent racial frustrations. The original issue is the signage which has already been squashed by city council. If you want to bring the issue back to city council take pictures of all the chinese only signage and don't be biased about it. The english version will probably be right beside it.


*edit realized I didn't really offer a benefit. Well the benefit is not having to waste time explaining to non-chinese reading folk that this store has nothing for them to buy.

I hate to break it to you but if you're not the target market, you probably shouldn't be buying the product. Should tampons be advertising towards men? What use do I have for tampons? Should I feel outraged that they don't want to sell to me? Maybe I'll start lobbying kotex because I feel excluded from their advertising.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:09 AM   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gridlock View Post
Question:

What economic/business benefit is there to having a Chinese(or any other non-english language) only sign?

**Please answer as clearly as possible, and as short as possible. Please make your answer stay within the economic/business realm. Ultimately, a business has as a primary purpose to create product and sell for profit. Please demonstrate how Chinese only signs assist in the generation of extra revenue and/or profit.

It was pointed out that this has been addressed, so I'll advance the plot. The answer to this question is the same thing now being thrown about in this thread: xenophobia. Don't argue something that your case is strongly supporting.
This is just my opinion:

-Impression of authenticity, having a Chinese only name makes it look like its straight from Asia

-Some of the stores have borrowed names from stores that are established in Asia without an English name.
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:19 AM   #353
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I think a lot of people in this thread don't know what a real racist looks like. News flash, not agreeing with how a certain ethnicity does something does not make you racist or a xenophobe.
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Racism comes in all shapes and form. But like I said before, it not racism in this thread, it is ignorance.

In the article, the advocates straight out declared it was WRONG because they don't understand the signs. I thought these advocates would be aware of what Canada stands for, as they claim to be a champion of. Clearly thought, we now know that is not the case.
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:20 PM   #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gridlock View Post
Question:

What economic/business benefit is there to having a Chinese(or any other non-english language) only sign?

**Please answer as clearly as possible, and as short as possible. Please make your answer stay within the economic/business realm. Ultimately, a business has as a primary purpose to create product and sell for profit. Please demonstrate how Chinese only signs assist in the generation of extra revenue and/or profit.

It was pointed out that this has been addressed, so I'll advance the plot. The answer to this question is the same thing now being thrown about in this thread: xenophobia. Don't argue something that your case is strongly supporting.
Why do you care if businesses make money or not? It's their decision to whether they want a Chinese only sign or not. Saying that they will generate extra Revenue/Profit because of an addition to English to their signs is presumptuous.

If you can't be bothered to go into a store that has a Chinese only sign, what is going to compel you to go into it when it has English. The signs aren't saying stay out unless you understand this language. Your not going in because you just plain don't want to, or you fail to see the relevance of yourself going into it and checking out the store for yourself.

Obviously the current Business model is working as those businesses are still standing. If it wasn't working for them do you think they would not do anything and take a Loss?

Who are you to dictate how businesses run? Do you see me going to your job or home and telling you how to work or live? I don't go: Hey your Welcome Mat only has words in English, you gotta go buy one that says it in French as well. You'll make a ton more Francophone friends if you do! So we should definitely make that a law!
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:35 PM   #355
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If they want to reduce (or increase) their market share with a sign in one language then go for it. As long as they run like a regular business.

Don't be a front, sell illegal items, pay their employees (not under the table or below minimal wage), have no smoking inside, and do not block fire doors with anything. Treat people how you want to be treated when someone is walking through that door and remember to refuse service if someone is acting like a d***.
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:43 PM   #356
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Why do you care if businesses make money or not? It's their decision to whether they want a Chinese only sign or not. Saying that they will generate extra Revenue/Profit because of an addition to English to their signs is presumptuous.

If you can't be bothered to go into a store that has a Chinese only sign, what is going to compel you to go into it when it has English. The signs aren't saying stay out unless you understand this language. Your not going in because you just plain don't want to, or you fail to see the relevance of yourself going into it and checking out the store for yourself.

Obviously the current Business model is working as those businesses are still standing. If it wasn't working for them do you think they would not do anything and take a Loss?

Who are you to dictate how businesses run? Do you see me going to your job or home and telling you how to work or live? I don't go: Hey your Welcome Mat only has words in English, you gotta go buy one that says it in French as well. You'll make a ton more Francophone friends if you do! So we should definitely make that a law!
Because if its not a business decision then they can argue that its a way to exclude white people and promote segregation. Thus, have a better argument than just saying "Duhhhhh, I can't read sign in my own country, so I am mad. You write words that I know :@"

The thing is, it should even be brought up as a debate at all in the first place. The fact that it has and still ongoing means there just people that either purposely trying to remain clueless because they have their own personal agenda, or just plain ignorant.
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:49 PM   #357
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I hate to break it to you but if you're not the target market, you probably shouldn't be buying the product. Should tampons be advertising towards men? What use do I have for tampons? Should I feel outraged that they don't want to sell to me? Maybe I'll start lobbying kotex because I feel excluded from their advertising.

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Old 03-22-2013, 12:56 PM   #358
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"hey, ill meet you at the circle_stick_square restaurant for dinner, call it for 8!"

im asian btw, my chinese isnt as good as it should be, so yes, i wouldnt mind an english sign.

some arguing its interferring with them doing business. canada isnt a fully capital country, so there are rules to doing business.
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Old 03-22-2013, 12:59 PM   #359
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"hey, ill meet you at the circle_stick_square restaurant for dinner, call it for 8!"

im asian btw, my chinese isnt as good as it should be, so yes, i wouldnt mind an english sign.

some arguing its interferring with them doing business. canada isnt a fully capital country, so there are rules to doing business.
I agree with you but how many restaurants only have chinese signage? Personally, I've never had that scenario play out for me where I can't read something.

Taking this a step further (assuming there is a plethora or chinese only signage), what about italian/french/greek restaurants? Instead of Mario's ristorante should it also have Mario's restaurant on the signage as well? You can't apply the proposed change to only one language, it needs to be done universally.

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Old 03-22-2013, 01:11 PM   #360
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"hey, ill meet you at the circle_stick_square restaurant for dinner, call it for 8!"

im asian btw, my chinese isnt as good as it should be, so yes, i wouldnt mind an english sign.

some arguing its interferring with them doing business. canada isnt a fully capital country, so there are rules to doing business.

Even being fully Capitalistic there are rules/laws to doing business. Except they tend to NOT infringe upon the Rights and Freedoms guaranteed to us.
Now if you don't understand something do you just go oh well, or do you learn it like say...Math. You don't go Man I only know that 1+1=2 But 2+2 is way too hard so they should make it easier like 1+1+1+1=? And that I'll only do calculations if it only consists of 1's
Usually no you go and learn how to solve it like plugging those numbers into a calculator if 2+2 is too hard for you to do in your mind.

For everyone who is complaining about not understanding the language either accept it as is or learn how to read it. We aren't in the business to make you feel better or make your life easier. There is a BIG difference between seemingly promoting segregation OR actually saying we want segregation.

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Old 03-22-2013, 01:34 PM   #361
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For everyone who is complaining about not understanding the language either accept it as is or learn how to read it. We aren't in the business to make you feel better or make your life easier. There is a BIG difference between seemingly promoting segregation OR actually saying we want segregation.
but but..... its rude ....

I mean how would you feel if you just walk in to a country disrespect their indigenous population and start speaking another language on their land..... O WAIT
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:20 PM   #362
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but but..... its rude ....

I mean how would you feel if you just walk in to a country disrespect their indigenous population and start speaking another language on their land..... O WAIT
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:39 PM   #363
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Let's be honest you're calling me xenophobic....still don't understand why.

Never EVER have I indicated that I have a problem with immigration, change chinese culture, Canadian culture, language, etc.

I don't give a shit about these signs. I go to Richmond about as much as I go to Coquitlam....which is rarely. I don't avoid it because because I am scared....or racist...or some other random theory that you have. I just simply don't have a reason. I use to! I worked in Richmond for 2 years and when I lived in Delta I was in Richmond a fair bit.

All I simply did in the thread use use ONE example as to why these petitioners may have a valid argument. I don't want to strip away identities, I don't want to take away your language or religion, I simply point to one valid I thought they had.

You don't know me. Don't sit behind your computer screen pretending you do and type out the easiest argument to any debated by calling me xenophobic and racist. No matter how many times you say it, it isn't true.

Furthermore, I don't think anyone you are arguing with is racist or xenophobic either. I have met a few IRL, had private conversations, and discussed a whole host of issues completely un-related to RS. They are good people.

You and others like you (using the word "xenophobic" like you get paid per use) have turned this discussion into a pathetic diatribe. You should note that NOT ONE have you been called anything....where as some of us who have expressed an argument that you don't agree with have been.
To be honest I wasn't even thinking of you. The only reason why your argument stuck out is because it was stupid. It tries to hide the real reason why everyone in this thread is arguing for the provision: because they themselves can't read what's on those signs, and some are starting to feel alienated in the Tri-State area because of the influx of immigrants who don't share the same culture, values, and language as they do. Instead of learning to adapt and embracing change, they would rather manipulate the situation by infringing others rights to advance your own shortcomings, while arguing that it's because you care about their well being and health. You say you don't care about these signs - no, neither do I, because as it has been pointed out again and again these Non English signs account for such a small percentage of all signs out there that there hasn't even been more evidence being put forward since the start of this thread. We aren't arguing about signs, we are arguing about social attitudes.

The businesses are doing fine and are happy how they are. They are passive.
The people who are upset and are unhappy are trying to dictate how people should run their businesses - they are being aggressive.

I don't pretend to know you. Nor have I pretended to know you. I also didn't call anyone out, or called anyone specific a xenophobe, because it is completely useless.


Everyone loves Asian food, and everyone here has Asian friends. And of course, everyone are "good people". I'm not one for labeling people, because people are complex and there are many levels to everything. I simply wanted to show everyone that just by telling a racial group of people that they aren't allowed to have a sign that is only in Chinese, you are sending the wrong message. If you are adamant you and the city should be able to dictate how people should run their own businesses or live their lives, and that some of the arguments that have been used in this thread aren't direct results of what's posted as symptoms of the problem, then you can continue to live in denial.

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Old 03-22-2013, 05:03 PM   #364
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bus again
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Old 03-22-2013, 05:13 PM   #365
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bus again
It is advertising Real Estate Services in Chinese. The bottom part seems to be saying that the Chinese version of their website is now online.

Now my question is, do you need a translation for "We offer specialized Real Estate services in Chinese"? Because it's saying they specialize in Chinese Real Estate services, why would they bother to put that in English? So should they also write in English, "Our Chinese website is now up and running!"?

It's called target marketing. If I was marketing to a certain demographic, I make the most out of my sign and ad space. I don't waste it on people that will not even use my services or buy my products. It's effective marketing, not segregation.

This could not have been a more perfect example.

Like someone said, if I was advertising tampons, should I worry that I am making the men feel left out?

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Old 03-22-2013, 06:23 PM   #366
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Shall we legislate english translations after every sentence on Chinese radio stations and tv stations next? Do you feel excluded from radio stations like AM1470 or FM 96.1? Better file a petition now because they're discriminating english speakers and excluding them from Hong Kong news. Cause you know how them English folks love Hong Kong news.
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Old 03-22-2013, 06:33 PM   #367
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Yea lets make sure all our Chinese channels have English subtitles as well..

Don't know why there's so much hate on twdm he has many valid points
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:47 PM   #368
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Everyone loves Asian food, and everyone here has Asian friends. And of course, everyone are "good people". I'm not one for labeling people, because people are complex and there are many levels to everything.
You're assuming, and it's not good for an arguement. I don't "love" asian food, nor do I have any "real" asian friends. I don't hate asian food, nor have I purposely avoided making friends with an asian, but your view regarding who's into what is skewed.

I don't want immigrants to learn english because I'd feel threatened if they didn't, I want them to know english because the majority of the country uses it. That matters, because if worst comes to worst, I will not be able to communicate with somebody who only speaks Cantonese.

I don't care if you retain your native language, just learn english as well, it could prove to be invaluable to you some day. Until *insert language* is included in our list of official languages, english trumps it in terms of this arguement.


If we were in China, the opposite would be valid.
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:15 PM   #369
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You're assuming, and it's not good for an arguement. I don't "love" asian food, nor do I have any "real" asian friends. I don't hate asian food, nor have I purposely avoided making friends with an asian, but your view regarding who's into what is skewed.

I don't want immigrants to learn english because I'd feel threatened if they didn't, I want them to know english because the majority of the country uses it. That matters, because if worst comes to worst, I will not be able to communicate with somebody who only speaks Cantonese.

I don't care if you retain your native language, just learn english as well, it could prove to be invaluable to you some day. Until *insert language* is included in our list of official languages, english trumps it in terms of this arguement.


If we were in China, the opposite would be valid.
No one cares what you want and what you care about.

and in China ... no one cares about anything
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:34 PM   #370
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No one cares what you want and what you care about.

and in China ... no one cares about anything
If you don't care, why did you take the time to quote me?

Add something worthwhile to the conversation next time.
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:38 PM   #371
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If you don't care, why did you take the time to quote me?

Add something worthwhile to the conversation next time.
Because I care that you are aware that no one cares.
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:51 PM   #372
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Because I care that you are aware that no one cares.
Don't you think that sort of message would have been better suited to a private message? This topic exists because people think it's a subject worth talking about, nobody cares that you care about me knowing that nobody cares.

Do you have anything valid to contribute? We're talking about foreign languages and their place in Canada, you're talking about me. What do you think of all of this? Do you feel as though immigrants should have to learn english (speech and text)? Do you think foreign languages could have official status in Canada, in the future?
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:54 PM   #373
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They should add this sign.
http://www.ferociousbeaver.com/forum...sedriver_1.jpg
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:27 AM   #374
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Question:

What economic/business benefit is there to having a Chinese(or any other non-english language) only sign?

**Please answer as clearly as possible, and as short as possible. Please make your answer stay within the economic/business realm. Ultimately, a business has as a primary purpose to create product and sell for profit. Please demonstrate how Chinese only signs assist in the generation of extra revenue and/or profit.

It was pointed out that this has been addressed, so I'll advance the plot. The answer to this question is the same thing now being thrown about in this thread: xenophobia. Don't argue something that your case is strongly supporting.
I thought it was already proven earlier in this thread that most, if not all Chinese stores have an English name/translation?

Anyways, as long as business owners are legit, and not breaking any laws, I don't care what they put on their sign. It is their business, let them do their own thing. If they feel that their current sign is generating good revenue/profit, then why is there a need to change? Changing signs cost money and time, and time is also money. Perhaps they don't feel the need to target any non-Chinese consumers in Richmond (this doesn't mean they are racist). Or like another member said, it might ruin their image/authenticity (extreme case?).

In the end, business owners can do whatever they want, especially with what they want to put on their signs. It is completely unfair to force them to "change" their signs, just because some people can't read it. Do signs really matter that much? I care about quality, price, and customer service more.
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Shall we legislate english translations after every sentence on Chinese radio stations and tv stations next? Do you feel excluded from radio stations like AM1470 or FM 96.1? Better file a petition now because they're discriminating english speakers and excluding them from Hong Kong news. Cause you know how them English folks love Hong Kong news.
Manic had this question too.

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A private business should be allowed to advertise in any language they want. Plain and simple. Whats next forcing radio stations like redfm to do radio ads in English.
No, I do not support a "Melting Pot" culture.

Immigrants to a country should be able to participate in their respective ethnic communities; that may be by wearing a kirpan, a hijab, or listening to a cultural radio station. Immigrants engaging in voluntary segregation is the issue. In Richmond, a faction of the Chinese ethnic community simultaneously avoids excursions and incursions. I'm not aware of any other ethnic community that practices this segregation. I've not experienced anything comparable from the Middle Eastern, Eastern European, South Asian, Filipino, or South American ethnic communities. It's a serious issue, on an escalating series of levels, and signage is just the surface of it.
I'll expand to this.

In the early pages, a mattress business was criticized.

A Chinese radio station caters only to Chinese speaking people, that's totally cool. A Chinese radio station cannot cater to non-Chinese speaking people, that's understandable and acceptable. Mattresses do not intrinsically appeal to a single ethnicity or speakers of a specific language. Mattresses appeal to all people, indiscriminately and equally. The mattress business dedicated considerable effort to Chinese advertising and cursory effort to English advertising, though. The mattress business's advertising implies, it's very predominantly interested in attracting Chinese speaking customers and not very interested in English speaking ones. And the advertising is likely successful, I suspect they have a ninety-five percent or higher Chinese Canadian customer base. In the Lower Mainland, and even Richmond, English is the dominant language. That being the case, the mattress business's choice to appeal to specifically Chinese customers is an anomaly. One, which I believe, can only be explained by an attempt to segregate itself. That's segregation is what I take issue with, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the community being Chinese Canadian. I would be equally opposed to a Caucasian community avoiding visible minorities.

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Yea lets make sure all our Chinese channels have English subtitles as well..

Don't know why there's so much hate on twdm he has many valid points
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twdm's earlier posts were largely ad homs, which is why he was so sharply criticized for them.
MindBomber is offline   Reply With Quote
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