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Old 03-27-2013, 04:34 PM   #426
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EDIT.

Actually, forget it.

We have argued FN issues a significant amount on this forum and this thread isn't turning into another debate.
i'm talking about taxes. i don't care about anything else. that alone represents a lot of steps we don't have to do.
all that stuff about their culture, history, and past, that is something i don't even look into. it's not my business and i don't really care. that's something the ppl that care have to deal with.

i'm just saying as a human being living in canada, they can do more than i can. i don't think it's unfair or whatever. i'm just stating the facts. if i were exactly the same, but you changed my race to native, i'd suddenly be benefiting in a very noticeable way.

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I think I have far more respect for mankind than national boundaries drawn up by people, and whatever languages they speak inside.

I have yet to meet a single non-English native immigrant who doesn't wish his/her English was better. They are limited by their ability, not arrogance.

We are all sharing this little place called earth, it's nice to be more humble and kind to each other.

Good to watch the following video every now to keep our sanity.

Carl Sagan - Pale Blue Dot - YouTube
people don't get that. they are not globalists... they are stuck in their little religions/cultures.

they can't see it from a macro perspective. cultures are just another barrier.
they're not aliens... they're humans too. you respect the fact that they are at the same level as you.

you respect that if you both have the same goals, you should probably work together since they are just as capable as you.

unlike teaming up with a chimpanzee. you know that wont get very far.

they can launch rockets into space, they can build nukes, they can do everything you can do.

you respect that if you piss them off, they can kill billions, and if you work with them, you can save billions.
they respect you because of the same reasons.

you respect that they're just as cunning and sly as you are.

you are equals in the mind. the physical world, cultures, looks, tastes, smells... that shit is for animals to fight over.

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The way I see it, if I move to a country other than an one that speaks mostly English, I would learn the language not expect the country to accommodate my lack of knowledge....this is what you do on vacation, why be any different when moving to that place?

I don't personally care if a sign has a different language on it. I know English and French, if neither of those are on there I don't read it. If its a real estate ad then I guess they will lose me as a possible customer, if its a menu I guess I will go somewhere else.
I DO have a problem if things like street signs or general public signs have no English on them.

we aren't accommodating anyone. lol. there's just enough chinese here so we don't have to accommodate them. they accommodate themselves.


the whole respect argument is pointless. there's no law that says you have to respect.


back in the day, respect was given, so you don't get a knife in your back.
you give respect to powers at be so the power doesn't eat you for breakfast.
you give them face. they let you live. they don't come fuck you up the ass while you're sleeping.

there are laws against that now.

the new form of respect is just following the local laws and paying your taxes. THAT is respect already.
the world is too global to bicker about cultural respect and all those little things. people are too different, there's too many cultures and subjective opinions. no one can be right.
so it's a globally accepted, that if you pay your taxes and follow the law, that is good enough. and that should be good enough for any of you.
the government would rather take their tax money than have them learn english but bring nothing lol... them learning english won't help the the government or the world achieve anything. them bringing in money and paying taxes will. it's just as simple as that.

money>respect/anything else.



what you guys are asking for isn't respect. it's basically like being fucking imperialists. are you ameican or are you canadian? if you answer the former, then yeah, it's all cool, cuz that's what americans do. and that's why everyone fucking hates them.
if i go to another place and i mind my own business and deal with my own people and don't intentionally FUCK with the ppl that live there (aka try to start shit, fight, take over, rape and pillage)... that is respect.
you respect their ways, they respect your ways. you live your own path, they live their own path, you share the same space. no one has to be forced to do things a certain way. THAT ALONE IS RESPECT IN ITSELF.
you learn to live together, living different lives.
no one's forcing you to read chinese. no one should force them to read english.
this ain't the 1800's and the only place to get shit is within walking distance or if you're lucky enough to own a fucking horse. you can go to stores somewhere else. there's skytrains, buses, cars, planes, the INTERNET.
OPEN YOUR EYES. the world isn't just what you can see down the block. i can be shopping in the UK, japan, china, and americas all at once. and with a touch of a finger, they'll be shipping their freight to my doorstep.
and you guys are complaining about a tiny city on this planet? LOL




for all of you saying that the govt should tighten up on english skills for immigrants... what the fuck is that gonna solve?
they're gonna pass the TOEFL or whatever standard, then drop it. just like you drop almost all your highschool math, physics or whatever other shit you learnt right after HS provincials.
they'll just work the system. and as soon as they pass, they'll just live the way they want their way. they'll come here with the INTENT to pass the fucking retarded test, then go about their own business.
so what difference does it make?
you can't FORCE them to do things your way, you can force them to have some standard, but maintaining that standard is different. they're not gonna do it, and you cannot enforce that.
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:40 AM   #427
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A slightly biased article on this entire situation written from South China Morning Post

How mainland Chinese immigrants are transforming Vancouver | South China Morning Post

its a long read so im not going to copypasta here
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:54 AM   #428
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When asked whether she saw any downside to the mainland Chinese influx, real estate agent Lau agreed that local first-home buyers were struggling. But she added: "I see a lot of people here who bought in West Vancouver a long time ago. They can sell for a lot of money and move somewhere else. It's very good for them."
Ofcourse she won't say anything bad... because yknow.. she's making a shitload of money off foreign investors. Hope all this foreign money is getting taxed and not pushed under the rug.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:13 PM   #429
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It's rather depressing how the prices of homes have increased over the years, the condo I grew up in was $10x,xxx, now it'd be worth $2m. Considering the fact that wages are not increasing along side the cost of living, it makes young locals suffer unnecessarily.

I mostly blame expo 86, my parents attest to the fact that Vancouver was more of a hidden gem before then. I wish I lived in a GVRD that never saw an expo, so that I might have a chance at living close to what I called home for so long. In my opinion, the GVRD has grown too fast for it's own good, we are the second most congested city in North America with 2.4 million people, and yet New York City (8.4m) doesn't even make the top ten. Houses that I might have been able to afford back in 1993 (as a young adult now) would be completely unaffordable to me if I made the average wage for my age group.

And here is where the topic at hand comes in, Chinese immigrants were here WAY before me, and I don't blame them for coming here, I just wish that our local economy was more feasible. I don't hate their language or their culture, I'm just unhappy with how the ecosystem that we call the Lower Mainland is so unbalanced.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:52 PM   #430
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:47 PM   #431
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A little late on the subject.

But... IMHO...

It comes down to money.

I just think it makes ECONOMIC sense to include a healthy portion of signage in English.

A lot of people just don't know how to read Chinese. Period.

But, they love Chinese food or shop at malls that sell Chinese-oriented items.

So, if the signage has a portion in English, sales would rise.

Of course, these signs, to redo them, are expensive.

The lighted signs are at least a few thousand dollars.

The regular poster signs are a few hundred dollars.

Perhaps, the activists should do a small study, proving to the Richmond council members, that English signs (or partially English) will benefit the stores.

Then, once this bylaw is approved, the stores has a certain time limit (several months to a year or two to get the capital needed to buy the new signs) to change the signs.

Short-term cost turns into long-term profit.

It is just common sense that if you can target the other half of the population that DOES NOT read Chinese, profits will increase, no?
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Old 04-17-2013, 11:50 PM   #432
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A little late on the subject.

But... IMHO...

It comes down to money.

I just think it makes ECONOMIC sense to include a healthy portion of signage in English.

A lot of people just don't know how to read Chinese. Period.

But, they love Chinese food or shop at malls that sell Chinese-oriented items.

So, if the signage has a portion in English, sales would rise.

Of course, these signs, to redo them, are expensive.

The lighted signs are at least a few thousand dollars.

The regular poster signs are a few hundred dollars.

Perhaps, the activists should do a small study, proving to the Richmond council members, that English signs (or partially English) will benefit the stores.

Then, once this bylaw is approved, the stores has a certain time limit (several months to a year or two to get the capital needed to buy the new signs) to change the signs.

Short-term cost turns into long-term profit.

It is just common sense that if you can target the other half of the population that DOES NOT read Chinese, profits will increase, no?
So can I have it in writing that you will open a trust fund that will reimburse store owners if they don't make up the costs from non-english speaking folks?
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:48 AM   #433
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who cares if there's no English...those businesses aren't interested in attracting English speaking customers anyway.

why would those business change their signs? believe or not those cheap looking signs do cost $10,000 or more depending on the size.
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:49 AM   #434
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and if you go to Japan, China, Korea, anywhere in Asia, you'll see English signs...but I have never heard of Asian countries trying to ban English.
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:50 AM   #435
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oh yeah one more thing...i'm sure those Chinese business people are contributing to Canadian economy so they should just suck it up.
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:32 AM   #436
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So can I have it in writing that you will open a trust fund that will reimburse store owners if they don't make up the costs from non-english speaking folks?
In any aspect of life, there are always risks.

To defer these risks, the activists should do a small study of the effects of using partial English signage.

If the activists are so keen and so enamoured of their opinions, by all means, they should do it.

So, IF the study shows that sales increase due to the signage changes, then it is up to the Richmond Council to use this information as they see fit.

And, to defer the costs, the businesses would be given a time frame to change the signs, from several months to a year or more.

It will be a gradual change.

It simply depends on the results of the study.

I understand your point, stating the obvious: changing signage requires money.

Bylaws in any city increases cost, such as limiting the # of seats in a restaurant, requiring businesses to get business licenses, putting emergency water sprinklers for larger buildings, having a percentage of parking spots for disabled drivers, etc. Lets take the disabled parking spots into consideration: perhaps 5% of spots are for disabled drivers. This bylaw increases sales/profits because it encourages a minority population to visit that business. There is a combination of safety and economic reasoning for these bylaws. Now, I'm unsure what percentage of the population have disabled permits, but I'm sure it is much less than 50% of the population in Richmond. If a small minority have laws that help them conduct business and spend money in Richmond, then why would not a large minority (the other half that does not read Chinese) have bylaws that help them spend money in Richmond at Chinese oriented stores?

Of course, some of these bylaws do not increase the profits/sales of the businesses, but ONLY increase the cost for doing business.

However, changing the signage to include partial English, in theory, SHOULD increase sales/profits. The study will either prove this theory or disprove this theory (hence the need for a study).

Now, lets ask this question:
Would partial English signs scare off Chinese reading customers?

Of course not. There will still be Chinese in the signs, right?

And, I don't see why Chinese reading customers would stop going to a store just because it suddenly changed from all Chinese signage to English+Chinese signage, unless they have a prejudice against English lettering, which is incredibly moronic and does not make any sense at all, especially when there will STILL be Chinese lettering on the signage.

Onto costs for new signage:
Perhaps, the City should subsidize part of the purchase price of new signs.

Whatever the case, if the overall effect of changing to partial English increases sales/profits more than the cost of purchasing the signs, then it should be a safe bylaw to pass, with a little help from the City.

It has shown that residents that live in a city contribute by paying sales tax, property tax, etc, so the more residents or out-of-towners spend in Richmond, the more money the City collects. Short-term cost, deferred by subsidies from the City, should end up with long-lasting long-term gains. The City can recoup the subsidies from increase in sales taxes.
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Old 04-18-2013, 01:32 AM   #437
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oh yeah one more thing...i'm sure those Chinese business people are contributing to Canadian economy so they should just suck it up.
sorry, bro. Cash only.
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Old 04-18-2013, 04:33 AM   #438
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sorry, bro. Cash only.
not everything comes out of taxes.
People getting paid is also the "economy"

sure even those aren't paying taxes, but at the very least it puts less strain on public services
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:25 PM   #439
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for the late comers...

these ppl run businesses yes.

but these ppl's businesses are also their lives. they're comfortable. they don't care about increasing profits if that's what they have to do.

you don't go to the gym and lecture other people on how to work out (even if it will give them more gains), because they simply don't give a fuck. they wanna do it their way, and they're comfortable doing it the way they are now.

it's that easy.
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:53 PM   #440
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:56 PM   #441
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for the late comers...

these ppl run businesses yes.

but these ppl's businesses are also their lives. they're comfortable. they don't care about increasing profits if that's what they have to do.

you don't go to the gym and lecture other people on how to work out (even if it will give them more gains), because they simply don't give a fuck. they wanna do it their way, and they're comfortable doing it the way they are now.

it's that easy.
You are right. I don't and shouldn't go to a gym and lecture other people. The activists should not go to individual businesses and lecture them.

But the Government (City of Richmond) does this through laws, and the activists are targeting the District specifically.

I understand that you saying that the City should let the businesses do whatever they want; perhaps, they really just want a stable cost/profit structure without the government interfering.

You are inferring a laissez-faire economy for the masses...

So, let businesses do whatever they want to do, without new regulations?

So, lets go ahead and allow ANY restaurant (not just Chinese ones) stuff as many customers and chairs and tables into their restaurants as they want. Obviously, this is dangerous due to fire hazards, etc. The conclusion is that there will always be regulations for safety, and... of course, to increase the tax coffers of the City.

If there is a need for change or a benefit for changing, then why not?

Most of the regulations and bylaws are useful, and I think that a research-study showing partial English signs will increase sales/profits in businesses.

There really is no such thing as a 100% laissez-faire economy.

There will always be regulations, for better or worse.

I am not condoning or rejecting the views of the activists.

I'm simply pointing out...

that if those activists simply use another "strategy" to convince the Richmond Councillors on the signage problem, then the activists could succeed. They need to use the "economic benefits" strategy instead of using its current strategy. Right now, their current strategy looks as if they are stuffing their opinions down businesses's throats (through lobbying the local Government), but without any success.

I'm also proposing that if the initiative succeeds, then the District could allow a long period of time for businesses to get new signage. It is not an instant change where businesses have to buy or get new signs immediately.

And, I also mentioned subsidies.

I forgot to add that Richmond is a growing city, and each new resident or new visitor that visits Richmond will benefit local residents and businesses.

Would adding partial English signs attract new residents and visitors? Of course! There is a HUGE portion of the population in Vancouver, BC, and Canada that does not read Chinese, and who loves Chinese food, buy Chinese-oriented goods, etc.

It really does not matter what group it is. As long as money is spent in Richmond and new bylaws increase this, then Richmond will prosper more.
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Old 04-18-2013, 11:47 PM   #442
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You are right. I don't and shouldn't go to a gym and lecture other people. The activists should not go to individual businesses and lecture them.

But the Government (City of Richmond) does this through laws, and the activists are targeting the District specifically.

I understand that you saying that the City should let the businesses do whatever they want; perhaps, they really just want a stable cost/profit structure without the government interfering.

You are inferring a laissez-faire economy for the masses...

So, let businesses do whatever they want to do, without new regulations?

So, lets go ahead and allow ANY restaurant (not just Chinese ones) stuff as many customers and chairs and tables into their restaurants as they want. Obviously, this is dangerous due to fire hazards, etc. The conclusion is that there will always be regulations for safety, and... of course, to increase the tax coffers of the City.

If there is a need for change or a benefit for changing, then why not?

Most of the regulations and bylaws are useful, and I think that a research-study showing partial English signs will increase sales/profits in businesses.

There really is no such thing as a 100% laissez-faire economy.

There will always be regulations, for better or worse.

I am not condoning or rejecting the views of the activists.

I'm simply pointing out...

that if those activists simply use another "strategy" to convince the Richmond Councillors on the signage problem, then the activists could succeed. They need to use the "economic benefits" strategy instead of using its current strategy. Right now, their current strategy looks as if they are stuffing their opinions down businesses's throats (through lobbying the local Government), but without any success.

I'm also proposing that if the initiative succeeds, then the District could allow a long period of time for businesses to get new signage. It is not an instant change where businesses have to buy or get new signs immediately.

And, I also mentioned subsidies.

I forgot to add that Richmond is a growing city, and each new resident or new visitor that visits Richmond will benefit local residents and businesses.

Would adding partial English signs attract new residents and visitors? Of course! There is a HUGE portion of the population in Vancouver, BC, and Canada that does not read Chinese, and who loves Chinese food, buy Chinese-oriented goods, etc.

It really does not matter what group it is. As long as money is spent in Richmond and new bylaws increase this, then Richmond will prosper more.
Again, are you willing to fork up the cash to pay these said subsidies?
The only groups complaining are a small minority in Richmond and people who neither live in, nor contribute taxes to the city of Richmond.

So on one hand, we have a minority that wants to impose their will on the majority, and on the other hand we have people who wants all these policies implemented for their own benefit without contributing anything to the costs.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:19 AM   #443
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Again, are you willing to fork up the cash to pay these said subsidies?
The only groups complaining are a small minority in Richmond and people who neither live in, nor contribute taxes to the city of Richmond.

So on one hand, we have a minority that wants to impose their will on the majority, and on the other hand we have people who wants all these policies implemented for their own benefit without contributing anything to the costs.
It is up to what the activists will do and what the District will approve.

The subsidies derive their funding from increased taxes (if proven from the study I proposed).

I am merely voicing what the activists should do, if they want to get the bylaw approved.

As it stands, the activists is climbing a large hill.

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Old 04-19-2013, 07:06 AM   #444
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The only groups complaining are a small minority in Richmond and people who neither live in, nor contribute taxes to the city of Richmond.
Betcha Betcha these business don't even contribute 100% to the taxes for the City of Richmond..


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Old 04-19-2013, 07:10 AM   #445
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Basically the entire Aberdeen Food Court, minus Vera's lol
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Old 04-19-2013, 09:00 PM   #446
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Basically the entire Aberdeen Food Court, minus Vera's lol
its all in english? I would know cause I eat there every other day. Along side with every other food court and asian resteraunt in richmond. and i'm white.

There are no eateries in richmond that don't have some form of english.

The only place i've felt intimidated is LIDO. But fuck that shit for overpriced milk tea.

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its all in english? I would know cause I eat there every other day. Along side with every other food court and asian resteraunt in richmond. and i'm white.

There are no eateries in richmond that don't have some form of english.

The only place i've felt intimidated is LIDO. But fuck that shit for overpriced milk tea.
talking about taxes not signage lol
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:13 PM   #448
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Old 04-22-2013, 12:41 PM   #449
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Funny thing happen over the weekends. GF and I were at Richmond looking for a bite. Saw a restaurant with Chinese signs only (we were both Chinese and speak chinese but isn't too good with reading....) and we can't understand the sign so we left and went to our usual place lol.
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