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Old 03-19-2013, 02:25 PM   #176
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I've never had any problems finding people who couldn't speak any English at all in Richmond. I've certainly never seen any 'NO ENGLISH' signs but even if there were those signs, I don't see why you have to eat at that restaurant anyway. Just don't go there. If a lot of people don't eat there, then they will lose business and fail or they will be forced to hire English speaking companies to compete.
i want to eat there because i can! but apparently it seems as if i cant...

if people live in canada, take advantage of canadian health care, cant speak canadas official languages, why should i have to cater to them? if it were italian stores...mexican...german...croatian...how many languages do i need to learn to comfortably live in my city???

one person not going to a store will do nothing to them. my problem is that its already been made into their own personal city, and for that reason, they will not fail nor need to hire english speaking workers.

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People have to realize, Chinese only signs does not equal chinese races only. No English is not the same as no whites. Cause clearly whites are the only people who speak english.
no english may not necessarily mean no whites, but no english sure the hell says "i dont care about you and i wont accomodate to you, your not welcome here" to me.

look around, theres tons of store signs who actually accomodate to canadians...take cioffis meat market on hastings street. if i walk in there, i can order anything i want while speaking italian or english. anyone can go in and order. everyone there speaks english or italian fluently. you dont have to be a rocket scientist to realize "cioffi's" isnt an english word you know, but the words "deli market" that come after it kiinda give it all away. even the most fobbed out person can walk in there and easily order something and not need to google translate the name to find out that its a deli shop.
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:46 PM   #177
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i know its hard to see the problem here to some, be lets put it this way

i move to china, eventually plenty of white people move there, enough to make chinese a minority in a pretty large area, chinese people make an effort being like hey, i wanna be welcome, this is my country we let you into anyways right? then me being like, fuck you, dont like it, go elsewhere....

think about it.. as accepting as Canada is to multiculturalism there is still a line.
If they want to be welcome then they are free to learn english and join them.
It's not the same as them learning english and being told fuck you, don't like chinks, go elsewhere.
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Old 03-19-2013, 02:51 PM   #178
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i want to eat there because i can! but apparently it seems as if i cant...

if people live in canada, take advantage of canadian health care, cant speak canadas official languages, why should i have to cater to them? if it were italian stores...mexican...german...croatian...how many languages do i need to learn to comfortably live in my city???

one person not going to a store will do nothing to them. my problem is that its already been made into their own personal city, and for that reason, they will not fail nor need to hire english speaking workers.



no english may not necessarily mean no whites, but no english sure the hell says "i dont care about you and i wont accomodate to you, your not welcome here" to me.
So when the hell were people forced to care about others? Were the cool kids in school forced to care about the nerds in high school? I don't see nerds around the world protesting saying the cool kids don't care about them.

Should the hot swedish girl at the bar be forced to care about you if you can't speak to her in swedish? No? You fucking learn swedish if you want to talk to her.

Next you'll be complaining that lesbians aren't welcoming to you because you're not a lesbian.

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Old 03-19-2013, 02:55 PM   #179
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If they want to be welcome then they are free to learn english and join them.
It's not the same as them learning english and being told fuck you, don't like chinks, go elsewhere.

why would the chinese have to learn ENGLISH if i was the one who went there?!

you sir have a very screwed perception, i would hate to invite you into my house and watch you disrespect my shit "that was an example"

what ever race it is does not matter, its the lack of respect that is the issue.

Canada can say fuck you to immigrants but dosnt. people come here to make life better, so people need to respect this, its is a privilege to some, and some that are willing to respect it would easily trade places with those who feel entitled.



get your head out of your ass, who said i have anything against anyone.

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Old 03-19-2013, 03:00 PM   #180
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So when the hell were people forced to care about others? Were the cool kids in school forced to care about the nerds in high school? I don't see nerds around the world protesting saying the cool kids don't care about them. Should the hot swedish girl at the bar be forced to care about you if you can't speak to her in swedish? No? You fucking learn swedish if you want to talk to her.
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:01 PM   #181
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:05 PM   #182
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If they want to be welcome then they are free to learn english and join them.
It's not the same as them learning english and being told fuck you, don't like chinks, go elsewhere.
seems that way here though only opposite way around, we either learn their language or we've nothing to do but leave.

cmon dude...thats pretty fucking disgusting, and if it ever happened to you, i highly doubt you'd be sitting there saying "oh well,they're the majority... i guess ill just learn their language...ill try to fit 1 hour sessions in a day when im not working a 12 hour day and then tending to my family all night....so maybe in 5 years i'll be able to have a real conversation with them!".

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So when the hell were people forced to care about others? Were the cool kids in school forced to care about the nerds in high school? I don't see nerds around the world protesting saying the cool kids don't care about them. Should the hot swedish girl at the bar be forced to care about you if you can't speak to her in swedish? No? You fucking learn swedish if you want to talk to her.
and if you want to be a canadian, speak the fucking national language. simple. what you speak inside your own home or while walking down the street i could care less, when it comes to store names, english or french, as long as thats the majority, im happy along with others. i can barely even speak french now, but id rather see french that characters on a billboard.

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Old 03-19-2013, 03:16 PM   #183
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Businesses are private property just like homes. If you are ok with people speaking a different language at home, then it is hypocritical to then criticize businesses for doing business in a different language
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:24 PM   #184
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cmon dude...thats pretty fucking disgusting, and if it ever happened to you, i highly doubt you'd be sitting there saying "oh well,they're the majority... i guess ill just learn their language...ill try to fit 1 hour sessions in a day when im not working a 12 hour day and then tending to my family all night....so maybe in 5 years i'll be able to have a real conversation with them!".
No I would decide it's not worth my time learning the language and move on. Or I can go into the restaurant and point.

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i can barely even speak french now, but id rather see french that characters on a billboard.
So just because French is an official language, you're completely fine with all out french signs and french speaking employees. You are completely fine with not being able to go into the french store because they only speak french, however when it's Chinese or whatever other language isn't an official language it's not ok. What kind of retarded logic is that? Face it, you're just a racist campaigning under the guise of cultural harmony or whatever other shitty term you want to use.
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:25 PM   #185
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Businesses are private property just like homes. If you are ok with people speaking a different language at home, then it is hypocritical to then criticize businesses for doing business in a different language
If theres a group of us, and I'm standing along with a few others who don't speak Chinese, would you be so disrespectful to us and talk in Chinese to the others while we're right I front of you and exclude us from the conversation? If you do that, I'm surprised one of your friends hasn't piped up at you yet...
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:34 PM   #186
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So just because French is an official language, you're completely fine with all out french signs and french speaking employees. You are completely fine with not being able to go into the french store because they only speak french, however when it's Chinese or whatever other language isn't an official language it's not ok. What kind of retarded logic is that? Face it, you're just a racist campaigning under the guise of cultural harmony or whatever other shitty term you want to use.
English and French are OFFICIAL languages. I'm not going to bitch and moan because as a society, they were brought to a vote, and adopted as such. Chinese is NOT.

And for French and English, we don't even say The sign must be 100% English, and no other language. We're still trying to cater to Asians by letting them keep a part of the signage in their own language, your just too fucking dense to understand this.


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If they want to be welcome then they are free to learn english and join them.
It's not the same as them learning english and being told fuck you, don't like chinks, go elsewhere.
@Mods: I'm still waiting for points to be handed out to this post. SG! made a CLEAR statement that this should not be allowed. Yet this guy is still just rolling along with his shit-spewing.
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:38 PM   #187
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If theres a group of us, and I'm standing along with a few others who don't speak Chinese, would you be so disrespectful to us and talk in Chinese to the others while we're right I front of you and exclude us from the conversation? If you do that, I'm surprised one of your friends hasn't piped up at you yet...
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You just don't get it. If I choose to be friends with English speakers, then I will speak whatever language most people understand, and if not, I will translate after the fact. The business chooses to cater to chinese speakers and therefore can choose to communicate in chinese only.

If I chose to only have chinese speaking friends, that's none of your business.
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:57 PM   #188
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No I would decide it's not worth my time learning the language and move on. Or I can go into the restaurant and point.


So just because French is an official language, you're completely fine with all out french signs and french speaking employees. You are completely fine with not being able to go into the french store because they only speak french, however when it's Chinese or whatever other language isn't an official language it's not ok. What kind of retarded logic is that? Face it, you're just a racist campaigning under the guise of cultural harmony or whatever other shitty term you want to use.

correct. i said i can barely speak french though. i can still have a basic conversation with a waiter/waitress.

If having pride for the country i live in makes me a racist, then yup, I am one...I'm just a white boy who drives a truck, spends his weekend activities getting drunk, hunting and shooting things. Yup, I'm full on racist then....tool
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:18 PM   #189
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correct. i said i can barely speak french though. i can still have a basic conversation with a waiter/waitress.

If having pride for the country i live in makes me a racist, then yup, I am one...I'm just a white boy who drives a truck, spends his weekend activities getting drunk, hunting and shooting things. Yup, I'm full on racist then....tool
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Don't kid yourself, language has nothing to do with national pride. If anything, the English/french debate has fragmented our country more than anything. You're just a racist.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:22 PM   #190
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Don't kid yourself, language has nothing to do with national pride. If anything, the English/french debate has fragmented our country more than anything. You're just a racist.
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Also, to be clear:
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It's not the same as them learning english and being told fuck you, don't like chinks, go elsewhere.
This was poorly puncutated yet not unreasonably stated.
"Not learning English is not the same as trying to learn English, and then as an English-speaking Asian person being told "Fuck off, Chink", while attempting to integrate into society"

His point is valid, and the racial epithet was used to make a point rather than target a racial group. I would also assume that anyone going by the username Taiwan Domestic Market would be speaking from anecdotal experience--either personal or relayed.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:30 PM   #191
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:33 PM   #192
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English and French are OFFICIAL languages. I'm not going to bitch and moan because as a society, they were brought to a vote, and adopted as such. Chinese is NOT.

And for French and English, we don't even say The sign must be 100% English, and no other language. We're still trying to cater to Asians by letting them keep a part of the signage in their own language, your just too fucking dense to understand this.




@Mods: I'm still waiting for points to be handed out to this post. SG! made a CLEAR statement that this should not be allowed. Yet this guy is still just rolling along with his shit-spewing.
The city of Richmond voted politicians who decided not to not enforce english on all signs as well. Since you respect democracy so much, then why are you complaining. Instead of finding petty ways of getting me banned, work on bringing up valid points.

As an addendum, french was not an official language until 1969. Were there any issues with french signs in quebec before that time? No one complained why these french pigs shouldn't be forced to speak english? (Tongue in cheek for banhappy mello)
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:46 PM   #193
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^meh, English and French already had constitutional provisions since 1867. Officials languages act 1969 enforces all federal agencies to be bilingual.

People appeal to city hall because it is closest to the people. Democracy is used to grant and monitor the happiness of the majority in order to come to a decision. (by monitoring, I mean granting the happiness of the majority to the people may result in tyrannical acts, Democracy acts as a brake against it by giving people the opportunity to speak up E.g. this petition) Unfortunately, politics has destroyed democracy as votes matters. Since enforcing a signage police will piss off half of Richmond, it would be illogical for Councillors to vote yes as it would be political suicide. Democracy is a double edged sword.

on a side note: There needs to be a clear divide on storefront signs and advertisements. Even if a signage law is imposed, private properties can claim their roadside signs as advertisements. I believe there is a bylaw already enforcing storefront signs to have English, the appealing group should address that billboards and advertisements should contain at least 50% English.
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:57 PM   #194
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and if you want to be a canadian, speak the fucking national language. simple. what you speak inside your own home or while walking down the street i could care less, when it comes to store names, english or french, as long as thats the majority, im happy along with others. i can barely even speak french now, but id rather see french that characters on a billboard.

i think this is where your perception is skewed.

they don't want to be canadian. they just want to live here.

you can say...
canada is like a mine. and chinese are like miners.
they will migrate where they think they can make it best. and when the mine runs out (going gets tough), they will leave to the next best thing out there.

there is no canadian pride. or whatever. it's just opportunistic mentality. and canada welcomes that. this is the land of the free. a haven for all people with all kinds of different intent.

chinese are chinese. they will never be canadian. they will always be chinese first. that's where their pride and nationality stands. they don't want to like you, or be canadian or western. they want to be chinese. they're just here because there's opportunity. if you change the laws and make it tough and uncomfortable, they're just going to leave.

as far as the government goes, the only respect you have to pay canada when you live here is taxes. if you do that, you're in good standing.
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Greebo i t-boned some guy and killed their baby, it was funny
silvia i have a couple asian guy friends that do very well with the ladies. but guess what, they go to the gym, they dont have long hair, they dont wear orange pants, and they dont play counterstrike. its not the ethnicity that the girls dont like, its the style and personality.
450HP Supra I am about to use your eye sockets as a shoe rack for my nuts. ...something about chinks, j-bodys, I can't quite remember as I was drunk and looking for a girl to punch in the clit. Think of it as a digital urinal, and you are the mint, except, instead of actually smelling mint, you smell like mothballs, rotten kimchee and virginity. I'm about to start drinking heavily now and you better be gone before I get back or I swear to god I will break the internet over my knee and use the pieces to beat you in the deformed skull with, cock muffler.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:07 PM   #195
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^ That is true, especially in the investment/entrepreneur category of immigrants. Best method of investment? Open a restaurant or a store.

Chinese will never give up their passports for Canadian citizenship. Once they give up their Chinese citizenship, they lose protection and benefits from the properties and investments.

Some Chinese officials just send their wives/daughter/son here so its a safe haven for their money made from corruption
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MG1: in fact, a new term needs to make its way into the American dictionary. Trump............ he's such a "Trump" = ultimate insult. Like, "yray, you're such a trump."
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[29-06, 13:42] FastAnna you literally talk out your ass
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:14 PM   #196
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Some Chinese officials just send their wives/daughter/son here so its a safe haven for their money made from corruption
yeah duh, chinese would rather put their billions of money (whether corrupt or not) here, than in china. and canada goes... sure dude just pay taxes. and the chinese go.. sure dude.. deal.

lol. it's as simple as that.
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nipples neways...wat is with those fuck'n asians! i mean you would think they've never seen a dentist in their life. are dentists really that rare over there in ricey ricey and? looks like they're star trek ferrengi rejects! fuck'n have broken glass for teeth! goddaymn! and the smell....did a rat crawl in there and shit itself then marinate in its own shit as it decayed?ewwwwwwwwww! i swear...if one of those ferrengi asian girls gave head...when u pull the dick out it looks like it went thru a meat grinder! prolly shaved off a few slices of meat! *shudder*
Greebo i t-boned some guy and killed their baby, it was funny
silvia i have a couple asian guy friends that do very well with the ladies. but guess what, they go to the gym, they dont have long hair, they dont wear orange pants, and they dont play counterstrike. its not the ethnicity that the girls dont like, its the style and personality.
450HP Supra I am about to use your eye sockets as a shoe rack for my nuts. ...something about chinks, j-bodys, I can't quite remember as I was drunk and looking for a girl to punch in the clit. Think of it as a digital urinal, and you are the mint, except, instead of actually smelling mint, you smell like mothballs, rotten kimchee and virginity. I'm about to start drinking heavily now and you better be gone before I get back or I swear to god I will break the internet over my knee and use the pieces to beat you in the deformed skull with, cock muffler.
Iceman-19 If your gf cooks and cleans, good, tell the guy to take a fucking hike. If she doesnt, fuck, that joker can have her. Lifes too short to cook your own meals and do your own laundry, thats what women are for!
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:17 PM   #197
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You just don't get it. If I choose to be friends with English speakers, then I will speak whatever language most people understand, and if not, I will translate after the fact. The business chooses to cater to chinese speakers and therefore can choose to communicate in chinese only.

If I chose to only have chinese speaking friends, that's none of your business.
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I'm not going to multi-quote all your posts but dude, everything about you is EXACTLY why the Chinese people get such a bad rap; Your attitude, your ideology, your everything.
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Old 03-19-2013, 06:52 PM   #198
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Originally Posted by hotshot1 View Post
If the kid is sad because no one could/would speak to him, then his parents should move to a new city or move him to a new school. VPS already has schools teach English classes. You can't force people to speak a certain language. What is the alternate solution? Punish the children for speaking Chinese in schools? Allow for segregation by forcing Chinese students to attend one school and other races into a different school? There is no other solution. You just have to accept it and let it be.

Again, in a capitalist society, the market will take care of itself. This system is the most fair system there is. If you start adding some government mandates and regulation, then it becomes unfair.

In a few years, if businesses prosper despite offering absolutely no English language solutions, then so be it. Why should they be forced to pay money for advertising/marketing when English speakers aren't even their target market? it will never happen but even if the entire population of Vancouver is Chinese, that's just the way it is. That's the way the market went. Either learn the language or move.

And what if the sign is small and the name of the store is really long? Is the company gonna be forced to buy new signs? What if there is no space for a giant sign outside the store? Then is the owner gonna have to make the font really small? Then the customers won't be able to see it so well. How is that fair?

And I'm not Chinese btw.
you do realize that all formal institutional structures still operate in English, right?
the relative success you see in these stores that cater specifically to Chinese-speakers is due to the fact that there IS a cultural enclave surrounding the borders of Richmond, that admittedly sometimes permeates into Vancouver (South) and parts of Burnaby.
Still, these businesses are largely fueled by the same type of people: non-English speakers with no intention of learning English. Where does this money come from then, you ask? Well it sure as shit ain't coming from outside the community. Sure, you have your typical rich Chinese folks who bring all their money from overseas, but honestly I have a hard time seeing a closed economy like the one Richmond has being successful in the long run.

And this is why (beyond the obvious reason that the Chinese have a strong food culture) the market in Richmond is dominated by restaurants, more restaurants, and luxury goods, with only a few essential services that are eventually needed. Did I mention there are a lot of restaurants? What the fuck can you do on a macro level if you don't even speak the language?
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Old 03-19-2013, 07:09 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by melloman View Post
English and French are OFFICIAL languages. I'm not going to bitch and moan because as a society, they were brought to a vote, and adopted as such. Chinese is NOT.

And for French and English, we don't even say The sign must be 100% English, and no other language. We're still trying to cater to Asians by letting them keep a part of the signage in their own language, your just too fucking dense to understand this.
French became an official language out of respect from the French Canadians during the early settlements of Canada. But what weight does it carry today? How relevant is it to us in western Canada? We learned it out of respect to them and our white forefathers - but that's as far as it went. The City of Richmond also came to a conclusion - businesses should not be forced into putting up English signs. Had this been in any other city, it probably would have passed. But it wasn't and it didn't I hope you can respect that (and the Chinese Canadians).

It isn't just about "signs". It's about freedom - freedom to conduct businesses how they see fit and freedom to converse and advertise in whatever language they want to. I agree that it would be nice for them to have English signs to accommodate everyone, but I respect their right and freedom NOT to have to. I don't think any business owners that you ask would have ever opposed to writing English as part of their signage. All of you on the other side have put good points on why it would increase sales - and to be honest they would most likely agree with you. The most likely scenario is that the business owners never thought of it that way, because 99% of their customers were Chinese.

Instead of trying to force businesses and infringing their freedom/right to free speech(?), a more harmonious solution all of this would have been simply to inform the business that did not include English in their signage. If that woman spent as much time complaining and taking "evidence" as she did actually talking to the owners saying "Hey, I really wanted to try out your restaurant, but I couldn't understand anything! Would you mind if you added some English?" instead of petitioning the government, today's response and results would have been a lot different. A simple pamphlet explaining the benefits of having English in their signs would have turned most if not all smart business owners around.

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Originally Posted by Ulic Qel-Droma View Post
i think this is where your perception is skewed.

they don't want to be canadian. they just want to live here.

you can say...
canada is like a mine. and chinese are like miners.
they will migrate where they think they can make it best. and when the mine runs out (going gets tough), they will leave to the next best thing out there.

there is no canadian pride. or whatever. it's just opportunistic mentality. and canada welcomes that. this is the land of the free. a haven for all people with all kinds of different intent.

chinese are chinese. they will never be canadian. they will always be chinese first. that's where their pride and nationality stands. they don't want to like you, or be canadian or western. they want to be chinese. they're just here because there's opportunity. if you change the laws and make it tough and uncomfortable, they're just going to leave.

as far as the government goes, the only respect you have to pay canada when you live here is taxes. if you do that, you're in good standing.
Haha, I don't think that's true. I think a lot of immigrants (Chinese Canadians) included have Canadian pride - especially after you've seen the difference in administration and the way government treats people. Even the one's that don't speak English! Having pride in the values that Canada represent - I think that's part of the opportunity.


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Originally Posted by Culture_Vulture View Post
And this is why (beyond the obvious reason that the Chinese have a strong food culture) the market in Richmond is dominated by restaurants, more restaurants, and luxury goods, with only a few essential services that are eventually needed. Did I mention there are a lot of restaurants? What the fuck can you do on a macro level if you don't even speak the language?
I think you underestimate just how much money the Chinese are bringing into the lower mainland. The lower mainland full of retail services - the same could be said about a lot of western Canada (and Canada as a whole) as far as I can tell. Retail services are a sign of good things. It means that people are spending money because they have money. It means that people are bringing their money from elsewhere and spending here. It means we don't have big industrial companies or factories polluting our city. They don't find a need to do things on a macro scale ... Richmond IS a self sufficient bubble. That's why people love Richmond. You can stay in Richmond and get everything you need. Why would they leave? It's more about attracting people to come. It's basically a tourist, relax city, minus all the fancy historical attractions. Vancouver, as it is described by immigrants, is somewhere where it's nice and peaceful, where you bring your money to raise your children and retire. It's where you bring your money to spend, not to try to make money (unless you are opening restaurants.) And what's wrong with restaurants? I love the food culture here.

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Old 03-19-2013, 07:37 PM   #200
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I'm not going to multi-quote all your posts but dude, everything about you is EXACTLY why the Chinese people get such a bad rap; Your attitude, your ideology, your everything.
ROFL. How did you imply that I was practicing everything I'm defending? Chinese getting a bad rap? Come out to Abbotsford and see how many indo-canadians can speak english. Go to commercial drive and see how many italian folks put Italy before Canada.

It is one thing to think one ideology should be practiced by everyone, and it is a completely different thing when you are trying to impose your ideology especially in a free society. This is a free and democratic country. If people wanted english signs mandated, then it is simply a matter of forwarding this request to your local MP and have them put it up to a vote. If according to you, this is in the best interest of the majority, then it should pass with no problems no?

Also, I cannot read chinese and I speak english as my primary language. I am defending people's rights to speak whatever language they want. It is none of your business what people do, just as it is none of my business what sexual orientation or religious beliefs others want to believe. This applies to all races and beliefs, not just chinese.

When you start paying their taxes and own their businesses, then you can decide what language they speak. As the city councillors have already decided, your opinion is irrelevant.

If you want everyone to speak english the solution is very simple, subject every Canadian citizen to the TOEFL or whatever english test you want and deport people who fail. At least it won't discriminate based on race and deport the surrey jacks or equivalent who failed high school. If these high school rejects can't speak proper english or try to learn, then why are they immune to the repercussions? While we're at it, let's deport the elderly parents of law-abiding and tax paying canadians because they can't speak english.

Last edited by twdm; 03-19-2013 at 07:50 PM.
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