Canadian politics thread

[VRYALT3R3D]

Originally Posted by 68style

Omg insufferable…

If PP was PM and did exactly the same thing, which he would have had to do as well, every one of his knob lickers would have been “Yah get rid of useless taxes preventing businesses from businessing here, make relations better with USA so smrt”

This political landscape on social media nowadays is fucking ridiculous, keep everybody fighting opposite angles of the same decisions all day and building up hate rhetoric.

I could tell you don't put much thought in your posts. I don't worry too much about "whataboutisms" based on hypothetical conjecture.

All I see so-far is a weak Prime Minister that so far capitulated to Trump's demands. We have committed to massive military spending and we are considering a massively overpriced missile defense system. In the mean time, we have essentially dropped almost all retaliatory trade efforts.


Canada's new tariffs on U.S. drop to 'nearly zero' with exemptions
https://financialpost.com/commoditie...ns-oxford-says

[VRYALT3R3D]

Originally Posted by VRYALT3R3D

This "friendly tone" could have been established a month ago when Carney became Prime Minister. The negotiations should have started a month ago and as a result Canada has lost valuable time. There was no reason to delay this until after the election, which ultimately hurts Canada's economy.

I live in the reality where Canada cannot just pivot away from the USA in the short or medium term. Our trade infrastructure is not developed enough to expand trade with Asia or Europe. It takes years to understand local trade regulations, build connections and networks. It doesn't really make too much sense for a Canadian firm to retool for a new market while abandoning an established market they know well.

I was expecting Carney to be far more prepared than he actually was. His comments may have offered you some sort of emotional satisfaction, but it is not an end in and of itself. We should have some sort of willingness to address any legit concerns that come from the USA in order for Canada to drive the negotiations forward.

There are policies like: Digital Services Tax, Online Streaming Act, foreign ownership in Banks that will probably be at the centre of any negotiation. These concerns didn't suddenly appear under Trump, Biden wanted to address it too. Canada could align with OECD frameworks and that would satisfy US concerns without any real downsides for us. We could change banking ownership in Canada to introduce more competition from foreign banks. Canada has room to negotiate to ultimately get rid of the tariffs.

I have highlighted this issue a couple of months ago and correctly predicted it will be a contentious issue. carney is truly clueless

[Badhobz]

I fucking hate elbows now.

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

here’s reading for you:

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2025/0...tax-explainer/

This outlines the timeline and how this was a -terrible- idea from the start and even worse implementation. Don’t worry, you don’t need to harp on Trump this time because Biden warned that the exact same thing Trump just did was bound to happen if they proceeded as they did.

I don't read it as saying it's a terrible idea or that the implementation was bad - taxation on cross border trade on digital services has been an issue for going on 30 years and it's gradually been addressed. The UK, Spain, France, and Italy all have service taxes - in the UK it's 2% (vs Canada's 3%) - at a glance, the implementation seems to be pretty similar. Companies from other countries are able to do significant business in another country and repatriate that revenue without paying meaningful taxes in the other country - that's a drain on revenue. That said, I'm not sure this is the implementation I would have gone with - off the top of my head I would have thought something like just increasing the GST rate (in the same way we have a luxury car tax) would do the trick.

From a raw dollars POV rescinding the tax isn't meaningful but I'm fairly surprised that Carney chose to rescind vs delay - Carney must either not believe in this kind of tax or he ultimately rather just keep talking.

And for the Maple Maga crowd - I bet absolutely none of them can explain why this tax matters and how it works - they just see the Libs conceding a point to Trump and jump on them. There's no logic or rational thought, just partisan politics.

BTW: This is a slightly better article on the tax: https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/can...ined-1.7573099

[mikemhg]

More tribalistic bullshit. So utterly boring.

Cons in here argue Carney = Trudeau, they're both the same, Carney decides to scrap and pivot away from many of the inherited policies out of the Trudeau administration, now he's a pussy for not staying the course.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Bad faith political arguing IMHO.

[Badhobz]

^absolutely!

But at least that clowny fuck is trying to balance the needs of the many vs the needs of the few. In this case its better to appease the orange retard then to hold firm to some bs grift tax on US companies just in case ramifications against the canadian economy and/or additional tariffs.

If he would have held firm, your average shmoe canadian would have suffered more.

[mikemhg]

To be fair, I'm a fan of some "kind" of DST tax on the likes of Google/Amazon/Microsoft, etc.

Most countries carry a similar taxes in place, as these American entities carry a monopoly of sorts on digital commerce, and frankly don't pay their fair share in taxes.

I haven't gotten wonky enough to confirm what the overall income goal the Feds would use with this additional tax revenue, but I think had that been explained to the public better, you would've seen more support. The retroactive piece going back to 2022 is also a tough one.


Ultimately this 3% tax likely pales in comparison to the other items being negotiated (steel, aluminum), so to hold those back to keep this relatively small tax in place simply isn't worth it.

[mikemhg]

This is a helpful reference point:

https://www.vatcalc.com/global/digit...lobal-tracker/

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

This is a helpful reference point:

https://www.vatcalc.com/global/digit...lobal-tracker/

Super helpful and seems to indicate that Canada was basically mirroring what the EU countries were doing. Of course the American companies will be against this since it's mostly American companies that get hit by it.

I agree on the point about it being retroactive being contentious - I think retroactive taxes are bad in general just as the proposed cap gain tax increase was on yet no legislation had passed for it (it was such a mess and waste of effort for some people this year). Tax changes should only apply after it becomes law, never before.

From what I can understand there's nothing preventing Canada from subsequently re-implementing this tax and this is just a negotiation tactic - it's a distraction from what needs to happen, we pull it for now with no commitment to not put it back on the table, then get on with business.

[Hehe]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

^absolutely!

But at least that clowny fuck is trying to balance the needs of the many vs the needs of the few. In this case its better to appease the orange retard then to hold firm to some bs grift tax on US companies just in case ramifications against the canadian economy and/or additional tariffs.

If he would have held firm, your average shmoe canadian would have suffered more.

Please, enlighten me about the policies that Carney made about "balance the needs of the many vs the needs of the few"? I must be slacking on the my news readings.

You libs keep bringing up the orange man, when our PM has done jackshit but in the best interest of people.

We wanted budgets, Carney insisted on not providing one until fall.

We wanted a deal with the US, Carney keeps asslicking while continue to tout that he's strong-arming US. And we are still nowhere near to a deal.

Not just that. He went on and sign a pact with EU that basically make us the defacto 28th member of the EU but without the member's benefits. Like... let me get this straight... it's not ok for us to be the 51st States but it's ok for us to be the 28th EU member?!

What exactly EU has to offer that's different than US if we were to join any side at all? Heck, your favorite Churches chicken is from the US hobz.

[Traum]

WH has confirmed that trade / tariff negotiations with Canada has resumed, now that Canada has dropped the DST.

The re-starting of negotiations is something to me. Perhaps it means nothing to you though.

Originally Posted by VRYALT3R3D

LMFAO we just threw away the DST for absolutely nothing in return. I didn't read anything in the Federal Government's press release that Canada got any concessions from the US for dropping the tax.

All I care about is actions over words and mark "Teflon" carney has failed to continue to deliver anything.

[bcrdukes]

Originally Posted by Hehe

What exactly EU has to offer that's different than US if we were to join any side at all? Heck, your favorite Churches chicken is from the US hobz.

Umm..I think he prefers LA Chicken and KFC.

[Badhobz]

Originally Posted by Hehe

Please, enlighten me about the policies that Carney made about "balance the needs of the many vs the needs of the few"? I must be slacking on the my news readings.

You libs keep bringing up the orange man, when our PM has done jackshit but in the best interest of people.

We wanted budgets, Carney insisted on not providing one until fall.

We wanted a deal with the US, Carney keeps asslicking while continue to tout that he's strong-arming US. And we are still nowhere near to a deal.

Not just that. He went on and sign a pact with EU that basically make us the defacto 28th member of the EU but without the member's benefits. Like... let me get this straight... it's not ok for us to be the 51st States but it's ok for us to be the 28th EU member?!

What exactly EU has to offer that's different than US if we were to join any side at all? Heck, your favorite Churches chicken is from the US hobz.

well by doing this "deal" .... uhhh backtracking.... hes trying to appease trump to lessen tariffs that would directly impact many aspects of canadian lives (hence the greater good).

Trust me i hate this clowny fuck, i voted for PP. Cuz you cant blame it all on turd. he's just one man. i blame the party and platform that supported turd and his half assed insanity.

I wanted some change!

pp just shat the bed after he tried to mimic trump and alienated canadians by doing so. That and he didnt have a solid platform / policies. At least this clown can say he's done time in government and knows how to fiscally run a country.

[VRYALT3R3D]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

More tribalistic bullshit. So utterly boring.

Cons in here argue Carney = Trudeau, they're both the same, Carney decides to scrap and pivot away from many of the inherited policies out of the Trudeau administration, now he's a pussy for not staying the course.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Bad faith political arguing IMHO.

carney has accomplished absolutely nothing on trade with the US since he got elected. It is pretty pathetic.

[VRYALT3R3D]

Originally Posted by Traum

WH has confirmed that trade / tariff negotiations with Canada has resumed, now that Canada has dropped the DST.

The re-starting of negotiations is something to me. Perhaps it means nothing to you though.

Is carney even capable of negotiating with Trump without fumbling and falling down the stairs?

And people care about results, not empty actions. It ruins credibility.

[CivicBlues]

Originally Posted by VRYALT3R3D

carney has accomplished absolutely nothing on trade with the US since he got elected. It is pretty pathetic.

Totally! Almost as pathetic as judging an outcome before it's concluded!

[68style]

Originally Posted by VRYALT3R3D

I could tell you don't put much thought in your posts. I don't worry too much about "whataboutisms" based on hypothetical conjecture.

All I see so-far is a weak Prime Minister that so far capitulated to Trump's demands. We have committed to massive military spending and we are considering a massively overpriced missile defense system. In the mean time, we have essentially dropped almost all retaliatory trade efforts.


Canada's new tariffs on U.S. drop to 'nearly zero' with exemptions
https://financialpost.com/commoditie...ns-oxford-says

Well you’re the expert on not thinking very hard, so I’ll take that as a compliment.

All you see right now is what you and your social media feed want to see. Congratulations, enjoy being miserable waking up every day thinking everything is fucked.

[blkgsr]

Originally Posted by 68style

Congratulations, enjoy being miserable waking up every day thinking everything is fucked.

it isn't?

[68style]

Nope, try going outside once in awhile

[68style]

Originally Posted by VRYALT3R3D

carney has accomplished absolutely nothing on trade with the US since he got elected. It is pretty pathetic.

I guess every single country’s leader is pathetic then, who has accomplished a trade deal with the US of any sort besides Keir Starmer?

[Badhobz]

Why the Ching Chong’s of course. They got a great stinking deal that I’m sure the US will reneg and lower cuz these broke ass red state fuckers all need their Walmart items at everyday low prices !

[Eff-1]

The DST was a bad idea from the start. It's easy to say that big tech should pay tax in Canada, but let's be real: That tax just gets passed on to the end users (Canadians). In the case of taxing advertising for example, small businesses who advertise on those platforms would be stuck with those advertising rates increasing. I am glad they scrapped it.

And Carney's no dummy. Scrap the DST, earn brownie points with Trump, and hopefully win on much bigger issues: softwood lumber, dairy, etc.

The US holds all the cards. Canada is a speck of dust. The next 4 years isn't about about coming ahead, it's about mitigating disaster.

[supafamous]

So far Carney's been better at politics than I expected and not as good at governing as I expected - his poll numbers reflect an electorate that's happy with what he's doing and he's largely sidelined the Conservative talking points by either co-opting some of their policies or just not playing ball on the fake outrage that they've tried to generate. PP is firing blanks right now - he's practically invisible and has nothing to talk about - if he's going to stay leader he's gotta find a talk track that makes the Cons relevant.

His reception amongst world leaders has been very warm and he navigated stuff like how there wasn't a coordinated G7 communique out of the summit pretty well - basically he's avoided leaving stuff on the table for the media to talk about (like when Gregor Robertson put his foot in his mouth about not wanting housing prices to drop - Carney handled it with his own response and the media dropped it almost immediately when it could have been a story).

On the governing side I think he's not been delegating enough to his cabinet but it might be the case that he doesn't trust them yet and he'd rather just do it himself or keep it to the PMO. The result is that some stuff seems to be moving a bit slower than expected and there aren't as many cabinet members that have been visible and selling the message of the govt (the poll numbers say it doesn't matter right now).

[supafamous]

Originally Posted by Eff-1

The DST was a bad idea from the start. It's easy to say that big tech should pay tax in Canada, but let's be real: That tax just gets passed on to the end users (Canadians). In the case of taxing advertising for example, small businesses who advertise on those platforms would be stuck with those advertising rates increasing. I am glad they scrapped it.

All taxes get passed on to consumers, how is this one worse than any other tax? The fact that it's relatively common in many countries suggest either that it's a good revenue source or it's good policy (or both).

Originally Posted by Eff-1

And Carney's no dummy. Scrap the DST, earn brownie points with Trump, and hopefully win on much bigger issues: softwood lumber, dairy, etc.

The US holds all the cards. Canada is a speck of dust. The next 4 years isn't about about coming ahead, it's about mitigating disaster.

This is totally wrong. While Canada would suffer more than the US in a head to head trade war, it's not a case of the US dictating terms as we provide them things they are essential to the running of their country - oil, electricity, and potash being three of them.

We can cause a lot of harm to the US economy if we wanted to but it would also come at a great cost to us which is not in our self interest. OTOH, the US doesn't care about the harm they do to themselves in these trade wars (Trump is blind to that harm). In the long term though, that harm, will hurt the US more than it'll hurt us as we diversify our trading partners and re-orient our economy away from the US (just as what everyone else is doing).

If the US isn't going to be a trusted and friendly trading partner they will lose the preferential terms as soon as an alternative is available - we are already seeing exports to non-US countries increase b/c of this and it'll continue as everyone but the US is interested in this.

It's hard to understate the long term harm the US is doing to itself with this global trade war - it'll raise costs for them across the board and cost them dearly in diplomacy and influence. They are kicking the door wide open for China to be the preferred leading nation for the developing world. This could be the end of the American empire.

[Eff-1]

Yes, all taxes get passed on to consumers, but that seems to have been lost in the discussion around DST. DST supporters typically tend to argue that Big Tech can afford it, and if they want to do business here, they should pay taxes. Or they say well other countries do it, so we should too.

But my challenge with it is that it's mostly going to be small businesses who face that burden. How is that a good idea right now?

Not to mention, backdating it to 2022 is absurd. None of those other countries tried to get away with that BS when they implemented theirs.

If there was ever an issue to win points with Trump, it's this one.

This isn't about the US and the globe. It's about US and Canada, which is a unique situation in the global scheme of things.

It's like a motorcyclist and a mack truck. If they collide, sure maybe the truck was at fault. But the motorcyclist is the one who dies and that's why it needs to ride defensively more than anything else.