Hong Kong extradition protests

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by EmperorIS

Hong Kong mentality:

Protests against a tyrannical Chinese government. Surrounds an high profile government building and shuts down an entire business district.

Gets mad when Police stops them.

This isn't some 50 people in a park shutting shit. This is a million people surrounding an government building with politicians and top secret private documents of the governing body and its officials. It just takes 1 idiot to do something stupid to turn the whole situation very very violent. You think the Hong Kong government and police is gonna risk that sort of shit? This ain't a game.

I'm all for protesting for freedom, but don't play victim when the cops come and stomp you. It takes more than just whining for freedom.

More privileged fucks sitting at their computers saying how it's great for a group of cops to stomp the fuck out of someone's skull, because they are in a place they shouldn't be.

[EmperorIS]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

More privileged fucks sitting at their computers saying how it's great for a group of cops to stomp the fuck out of someone's skull, because they are in a place they shouldn't be.

Where did I say it would be great for them to get stomped?

I said don't expect to join a protest against the chinese government and not be prepared to get retaliated against.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by EmperorIS

Where did I say it would be great for them to get stomped?

I said don't expect to join a protest against the chinese government and not be prepared to get retaliated against.

So what's your point then?

The Royal HK Police Force used to have among the best reputation in the world. Now we don't even know who these people are. There have been protests in the past, but we rarely ever saw violence like this. Not just arresting or subduing protesters (not rioters), but stomping the shit out of anyone they can get their hands on.

The protesters haven't fired a single shot in the other direction. They are literally standing and yelling, with some whacking at buildings, putting up obstructions, and some groups singing. And recovering from less-lethal bullets and tear gas.

[Hondaracer]

Terran VS Zerg

[Badhobz]

fight back all you like, in another 30 years your ass is theirs. Its pretty much theirs already since the leaders are all "chosen" by the CCP. HK cant hold back the tide of China. The fate was sealed in 1997 when the brits decided to peace out.

[bobbinka]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

fight back all you like, in another 30 years your ass is theirs. Its pretty much theirs already since the leaders are all "chosen" by the CCP. HK cant hold back the tide of China. The fate was sealed in 1997 when the brits decided to peace out.

it's so sad that there are people who think like this. should people have no hope? should they not fight for their rights and what they believe in? The world you live in today wouldnt be what it is if people in the past didnt fight for their future.

Either you are truly blessed with a life where something like this is beyond comprehension, or you have already lived through something similar and have been worn away by it. I hope it's the former.

[DragonChi]

The writing was on the wall when all the great HK movies started to cease production. Can't say I'm surprised, and I don't see it getting any better anytime soon. This is a country that enforced a one child policy. I really hope a revolution comes out of this. Also surprised that the US isn't backing any groups for escalation. I have family in HK, if they needed sponsoring, there would be no hesitation.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by bobbinka

it's so sad that there are people who think like this. should people have no hope? should they not fight for their rights and what they believe in? The world you live in today wouldnt be what it is if people in the past didnt fight for their future.

Either you are truly blessed with a life where something like this is beyond comprehension, or you have already lived through something similar and have been worn away by it. I hope it's the former.

Smug bullshit comments like that show just how spoiled rotten people can be when they come from a place of privilege. There's nothing he did to enjoy the freedoms he does, yet he sticks it in the face of people who are oppressed.

We see the same thing with race, gender, sexuality, everything... Privileged fucks don't even know how ignorant their shitty comments are, and how unhelpful and even hurtful they can be.

[Badhobz]

The fuck are you talking about, I was being nice, but I've had it with your bullshit.

HK had it way better than the rest of China for a very long time. When the CCP came into my grandparents home in Shanghai, they took out my family and stripped them of all their worldly possessions because they were deemed an elite. They sent half my family off to work in some god damn shithole and we've never heard from them again. What you are "sort of" going through now, millions of Chinese families have already gone through. Your experiences right now are a fucking cake walk compared to the shit people endured and are still enduring back in mainland China. My family is still there. They've thrived, they were able to adapt in the system and when i ask them about coming to Canada, they don't even want to.

You do know the 1.5 billion rest of the Chinese people dont give a fuck about your little problem right? the ones that could have all left, the ones who are there have already made peace or is able to work the system to ensure their families have survived and prospered. All these rich mainlanders didnt just come out of nowhere. The system in China isnt perfect but it raised the general standard of living for our entire ethnic group. Yeah there's bound to be issues along the way, but trust me, you guys never had it as bad as we did. 50 year is the agreed upon term. When that's up, legally they can do whatever the want. Technically, they can do whatever the fuck they want right now and there isnt a god damn thing you can do about it because you guys have no support.

You know whos the most elitist? FUCKING HK people. You guys always talking down about mainlanders, always trying to set yourself apart, always thinking you're different and somehow better than mainlanders. YOU ARE NOT DIFFERENT, NOT THE ANYMORE. WAKE THE FUCK UP, you're not SPECIAL. OUR SHITTY OPPRESSIVE GOVERNMENT DONT HAVE TO ACCOMMODATE YOUR ASS, HK is just a city in CHINA along with many other cities we have. You might not like the rest of the family, but we are your family. YOU ARE CHINESE, you live in CHINA and its time the chickens came home to the roost.

[Badhobz]

Originally Posted by bobbinka

it's so sad that there are people who think like this. should people have no hope? should they not fight for their rights and what they believe in? The world you live in today wouldnt be what it is if people in the past didnt fight for their future.

Either you are truly blessed with a life where something like this is beyond comprehension, or you have already lived through something similar and have been worn away by it. I hope it's the former.

Im a realist. You can live in a happy land of fake optimism. I know the government in power and im telling you right now, they ain't going to bend to 1 fucking city. It'll take an entire country to overthrow that established government and as long as the majority of people see their lives slowly improving (compare China in 1980's vs now) and you'll see why so many of the Chinese citizens are willing to capitulate with the autocratic regime. They don't like it, but it kind of sort of works for them. They might have to sacrifice freedoms but at least they can buy a car now and have access to electricity and decent food.

[twitchyzero]

hk is a lost cause imo

if anyone who didn't grow up there is still expecting western ideologies/fair treatment under a puppet state...they should have an exit plan in the next 5-10 years

[underscore]

I know the laws in China tend to be, shall we say flexible at times, but based on how it's currently set up, can they charge someone who hasn't actually set foot in China under one of these "causing unrest" or w/e laws and request extradition?

Although if they're already sneaking into HK and seize people as some claim then the risk was already there, this just makes it easier for them?

[yray]

Originally Posted by underscore

I know the laws in China tend to be, shall we say flexible at times, but based on how it's currently set up, can they charge someone who hasn't actually set foot in China under one of these "causing unrest" or w/e laws and request extradition?

Although if they're already sneaking into HK and seize people as some claim then the risk was already there, this just makes it easier for them?

you can do something in Canada against a Chinese citizen that is illegal in China but legal here and still be prosecuted. Chinese law has no sovereignty limit.

they were bitching about Canada arresting meng wan Zhou yet they want to pull the same shit in hk

Going ahead with extradition is putting the nail in the coffin for hk. The whole economy of Hong Kong right now is it being still legally independent of Hong Kong yet close to China. Money can flow in and out, people having freedoms. If this law goes forward, what is the purpose of Hong Kong. people might as well do business in Singapore.

[DragonChi]

What's illegal in China but legal here? Sodomy? LOL

[yray]

Originally Posted by DragonChi

What's illegal in China but legal here? Sodomy? LOL

calling chairman xi as winnie the pooh

[bobbinka]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

Im a realist. You can live in a happy land of fake optimism. I know the government in power and im telling you right now, they ain't going to bend to 1 fucking city. It'll take an entire country to overthrow that established government and as long as the majority of people see their lives slowly improving (compare China in 1980's vs now) and you'll see why so many of the Chinese citizens are willing to capitulate with the autocratic regime. They don't like it, but it kind of sort of works for them. They might have to sacrifice freedoms but at least they can buy a car now and have access to electricity and decent food.

And your family left to come here to start a new life. What you enjoy here only exists because people in the past fought for it.

So because your family had to suffer, so should HK? And because, in your opinion, it is way better than what the rest of China got, it's acceptable? Is it because your family never had a fighting chance, so no one else should?

These are different times. When the CCP went to your grandparents home in Shanghai, were you born yet? If you had been there when you were an adult, with the power of social media and the world watching, as well as millions of people to stand with you, would you not have put up a fight? If the Canadian government walked into your house today and took everything from you, would you just let it happen?

The way you talk about China sounds like this:


Have a little compassion and understanding. If you won't fight for yourself, who will? For some people, 50 years is the remainder of their lives. No one's talking about overthrowing a government or starting world war 3. They want what was agreed upon to be honored. They want to be treated with respect.

Back then, did women ever think they'd be able to vote? did black people think slavery would ever be abolished? They still fought anyway.

Maybe it's all for nothing, but at least these people will be able to say they tried. And I would hope that anyone who never had a chance to fight (in their experiences) would wish these people the best. And perhaps, out of all the people the the Chinese government has bullied in the past, HK just might have the best fighting chance.

[SkinnyPupp]

The whole idea of China "is not THAT bad... Look at how many people got rich!" literally disgusts me. Yeah your family is "fine" as the comic above shows. Good thing they are Han Chinese right!

Millions of Chinese "went through" a lot of shit, but guess what - they still are. They are still going to, and it's going to get worse. They're going BACK to the cult of personality of 50's communism, but with the added benefit of technology, science, and money. And you're crazy if you think they're going to stop at Hong Kong. Once 2047 rolls by, you know Taiwan will be next on their agenda. They still consider Taiwan to be theirs, and they will absolutely go over there and conquer the country. And from there, who knows... Your Canadian kids may be fighting your Chinese cousins kids in World War 3 for all we know.

Yes, a growing number of the population are privileged enough to be in the "middle class" where they can get by, making good money as long as they don't have any opinions on things. God forbid they get into debt, lose enough social points not to be able to travel (outside OR within the country) or get an education (outside OR within the country). Their lives would be relegated to attending communist re-education camps and working in factories, unable to leave the premises without supervision/surveillance. Oh, this isn't fiction btw.

Unfortunately, there are racist/nationalist assholes all over the world, including Hong Kong. But I think generally the idea of wanting to be considered "NOT MAINLAND" has nothing to do with the mainland people of China, but the government and culture the government is building. If you have pride in your culture (which I should iterate, is NOT perfect in HK or Canada or USA or anywhere really), and people keep telling you it doesn't exist, you might get used to fighting back against that. Hong Kong is not China, and despite the "inevitable" people here are going to fight to the death to prove it.

[whitev70r]

Ironic how China is bitching about Canada's extradition agreement/laws and they are trying to pass an extradition law.

[Great68]

I don't think he's saying it's fine the way it is, as much as he's saying the fight is completely futile and might as well assimilate and make the best out of a bad thing.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by Great68

I don't think he's saying it's fine the way it is, as much as he's saying the fight is completely futile and might as well assimilate and make the best out of a bad thing.

That's not what he's saying, but I understand the sentiment. And if this was 2047, I'd agree

[Badhobz]

Originally Posted by bobbinka

And your family left to come here to start a new life. What you enjoy here only exists because people in the past fought for it.

So because your family had to suffer, so should HK? And because, in your opinion, it is way better than what the rest of China got, it's acceptable? Is it because your family never had a fighting chance, so no one else should?

These are different times. When the CCP went to your grandparents home in Shanghai, were you born yet? If you had been there when you were an adult, with the power of social media and the world watching, as well as millions of people to stand with you, would you not have put up a fight? If the Canadian government walked into your house today and took everything from you, would you just let it happen?

The way you talk about China sounds like this:


Have a little compassion and understanding. If you won't fight for yourself, who will? For some people, 50 years is the remainder of their lives. No one's talking about overthrowing a government or starting world war 3. They want what was agreed upon to be honored. They want to be treated with respect.

Back then, did women ever think they'd be able to vote? did black people think slavery would ever be abolished? They still fought anyway.

Maybe it's all for nothing, but at least these people will be able to say they tried. And I would hope that anyone who never had a chance to fight (in their experiences) would wish these people the best. And perhaps, out of all the people the the Chinese government has bullied in the past, HK just might have the best fighting chance.

Tried ? Like the umbrella movement a few years back? How did that work out. I'm saying this is a futile effort and the lost of lives and suffering is all for naught because you literally only have 30 years left before it all gets washed away. The fate of Hong Kong is predetermined. This isn't going to change the course of the country. Not as long as there is majority public support for the existing government.

You need to know your battles and when to fight them. This is a lost cause. Hong Kong does not even have popular support in the country or abroad. Western governments are not willing to throw out their economic relations with China in order to protect your city.

You want China's government to change ? You need suffering on a scale never seen before. You need to take away all the progress of the last 30 years before the chinese people will raise up and throw off the shackles of the CCP.

[Badhobz]

Originally Posted by Great68

I don't think he's saying it's fine the way it is, as much as he's saying the fight is completely futile and might as well assimilate and make the best out of a bad thing.

That's exactly what I'm saying. Thank you for understanding

[DragonChi]

Originally Posted by yray

calling chairman xi as winnie the pooh

LOL, big daddy xi about to get some HK ass. how about that one

[threezero]

I also agree with Badhobz on that CCP has done very well for China. They literally took China from nothing to a global superpower and economic powerhouse.

CCP is the greatest dynasty that China has ever had in its long history.

Most of the generation that benefit from this dynasty is still very well alive. They remember what it was like in the beginning and its hard to argue with them that they should fight against the CCP.

After all why should they, the CCP lead them from nothing to the prosperity they have now. In fact they have everything to lose. Why should they fight for this imaginary freedom thing they've never had and risk loosing everything they gain along the way.

They've follow the rule and play the game. And you have to be honest they did pretty well doing so. This is different than a say a dictatorship in Africa.

China has a functional economic system and wealthy, a rich middle and upper class. Tech, art luxury. Whatever a functional first world society need, China has.

This comes at a cost of freedom. Or rather a democratic western version of freedom. Freedom that nobody alive in Mainland china has EVER experience.

Majority of the Chinese citizen is not suffering. They are thriving in what the rest of the world call a Facist state. It make no sense for a thriving population to revolt against their king.

Yes you will suffer some inconvienece along the way, the king might made some bad call that affect minorities (aka not themselves) but overall keep your head down and you will live a good life.

Following this logic, its hard for Mainlander to understand HK's fight. There is no use trying to explain the freedom they are defending because its a completely foreign concept to them. To mainlander HK is being a little bitch/princess.

When you have kneel too long, it is strange to see other people standing.


I do believe HK is fighting a lost cause. The CCP will not yield to them. The more you fight the more they will oppress. Regardless I'm rooting for this lost cause.

HK is special not only because of its culture and its ex colonial root. Being part of China, Hong Konger is the ONLY Chinese population that remembers and know what is human right and freedom like the rest of the free world. And good on them for trying to protect it for the future generation.

[bobbinka]

Originally Posted by Badhobz

You need to know your battles and when to fight them. This is a lost cause. Hong Kong does not even have popular support in the country or abroad. Western governments are not willing to throw out their economic relations with China in order to protect your city.

By your logic, you would never fight any battle unless you are guaranteed a win, no matter the consequences.

Originally Posted by threezero

Following this logic, its hard for Mainlander to understand HK's fight. There is no use trying to explain the freedom they are defending because its a completely foreign concept to them. To mainlander HK is being a little bitch/princess.

When you have kneel too long, it is strange to see other people standing.

Ah yes, this is what the discussion feels like.