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Vancouver Off-Topic / Current EventsThe off-topic forum for Vancouver, funnies, non-auto centered discussions, WORK SAFE. While the rules are more relaxed here, there are still rules. Please refer to sticky thread in this forum.
reads most threads with his pants around his ankles, especially in the Forced Induction forum.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traum
I don't actually agree with this view. Instead, I'd say that the majority of the police force, regardless of where they rank, are primarily pro-establishment now. Whether it is by selection / recruit, or by brainwashing during cadet training and the prevalent attitude in the work environment, I think the vast majority of them honestly believe the protesters are the troublemakers and the enemy. Otherwise, how can anyone possibly and intentionally fire a headshot on a non-violent protester standing a good distance away from the officer?
There is definitely blood on the police's hands.
When you are an officer you have to follow your superior order even when it might not always be correct. That's what officer do they. I am pretty sure a lot of them don't agree with what's going on but as their duty they have to or they can quit.
When you are an officer you have to follow your superior order even when it might not always be correct. That's what officer do they. I am pretty sure a lot of them don't agree with what's going on but as their duty they have to or they can quit.
That's the difference between legal and moral obligation. As a police officer, they may not have the right to refuse an order -- actually, they do. All soldiers and police officers have the right to refuse an unlawful order, it's just that most of them won't. But officers have the ability to determine how that order is to be carried out. Is it necessary to aim for the head? Even if it was a direct order to aim for the head -- which would almost certainly be in direct violation of police protocols -- the field officer can aim elsewhere.
When you look at the violent, hatred, and attitude that the many of the front line HK cops continue to show throughout the crowd suppression process, I can't see how they are taking it easy on the protesters.
reads most threads with his pants around his ankles, especially in the Forced Induction forum.
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if you follow HongKonghermit someone posted a picture of the orders the polices were given. Some of the orders are pretty violent basically telling the riot officer just beat any protester as hard as you can but make sure you do it when cameras are not looking...
An oversimplified explanation I'm sure. There's probably overreaction from both sides.
That's a load of crap
He kept referring to this one example where a guy killed his gf in taiwan...
If the government is really that concerned with such an examples, why not implement laws to allow hong kong government to prosecute people for crimes they commited aboard?
US & canada doesn't let pedophiles go free here just because they fk children in some 3rd world countries instead of here.
In fact..i am pretty sure China will prosecute their own citizens for crimes committed aboard
From what I read, it all started with a man who killed his girlfriend in Taiwan, then he travelled back to Hong Kong and Taiwan could not extradite him back for prosecution. He was then charged in HK with a lesser crime, money laundering and will get like 29 months in jail.
Now who wouldn't want this bastard to face the full extent of the law? This is the impetus for the extradition law. The extradition law originally was pretty encompassing but since the protests, it has been scaled down to serious crimes like murder. What is the problem here? What is there to debate?
From Bloomberg: A local teenager is killed while vacationing with her boyfriend in Taiwan. She’s beaten, strangled, stuffed in a suitcase and ultimately discarded near a train station. The boyfriend, a Hong Kong resident, admits to the murder after returning home. But authorities can’t extradite him to the island to stand trial, and instead prosecute him for the lesser charge of money laundering.
If you're interested in the China Communist vs. Western Democracy debate ... since we live in a democracy, here is another point of view for you to consider. I love being in the West with all its freedoms but this evangelism of 'democracy is the best system in the world' can be argued as colonialism BS. BTW, our country was just accused of genocide (in terms of human rights) if anyone is still standing on a soapbox.
reads most threads with his pants around his ankles, especially in the Forced Induction forum.
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^^ I would support it if this law doesn't not apply toe China law. Remember there is no law in China they can make up any law on the spot. Or simply state your actions cost civil unrest and BAM they can arrest you.
What does civil unrest means anyways? Does it mean posting my view about the gov cause civil unrest? Does it mean if I speak up against the gov if they force me out of my the place I purchase without compensation cause civil unrest? What if a corrupt gov office rape and kill my daughter and me trying to seek justice cause civil unrest? What if tens of thousands of new born got poison and parents trying to seek justice does that cause civil unrest? Yup all of those cause civil unrest in China and people have been lock up/beaten/sentence to jail for it.
Now image you are HK and you posted something bad but the truth about Chinese gov. Before this new policy China can't touch you coz you are in Hk and you have the right of freedom. With this new policy Chinese gov can legally come to HK arrest you and put you in a Chinese jail coz what you posted online cause civil unrest. That's why people in HK are scare of this policy. Image if you say something bad about the Canadian gov (high carton tax rate for example) you can be throw in jail. How would you feel if Canada is run by such a gov.?
The government says the original version has been amended to protect human rights and ensure suspects receive a fair hearing and aren’t extradited for political offenses. It raised the proposed threshold for extradition to crimes that carried sentences of seven years in prison, compared with a three-year threshold initially. Earlier, nine business categories were removed including bankruptcy, securities and futures and intellectual property. The bill now covers “serious crimes” such as murder, polygamy and robbery. Chief Executive Carrie Lam has pledged to stick to the plan of passing the bill before the current legislative period ends in July.
reads most threads with his pants around his ankles, especially in the Forced Induction forum.
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Yea and you trust the bill won't change in the future? Just like how the 1 country 2 system wasn't suppose to change in 50 years. Is not even half way and already tons of change happen if this get pass it will just mean the end of 1 country 2 system. I personal don't trust a thing a Chinese gov puppet say. They can just let the bill pass in a few month's time change it to fit any crime. Sure let's have a fair hearing in China behind close doors with in lawyer.
When you are an officer you have to follow your superior order even when it might not always be correct. That's what officer do they. I am pretty sure a lot of them don't agree with what's going on but as their duty they have to or they can quit.
Psshhh... and members of the nazi party were just following orders too right?
They're still being hunted down and tried for their war crimes to this day. This is a bullshit and nonsense excuse proven wrong by history.
reads most threads with his pants around his ankles, especially in the Forced Induction forum.
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Thanked 2,191 Times in 1,131 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68style
Psshhh... and members of the nazi party were just following orders too right?
They're still being hunted down and tried for their war crimes to this day. This is a bullshit and nonsense excuse proven wrong by history.
I totally agree with you. I am just trying to say that the police/riot officer really doesn't have a choice. They can either quit or do what they were told. Being a police office I am sure the pay is pretty good. Some might have family and if they quit they might not be able to afford rent or put food on the table. Also some people are suspecting some of these police/riot officer from China so that's why they don't really about HK citizens and could care less if anyone is injury.
Whether it is by selection / recruit, or by brainwashing during cadet training and the prevalent attitude in the work environment, I think the vast majority of them honestly believe the protesters are the troublemakers and the enemy.
Agreed. The cops in the video posted on pg 1 looked super into it while they were beating the shit out of that guy. I'm a firm believer that if Asia and North America ever had a war, that we would have superior firepower. But Asia would flood us with their superior numbers. This is a perfect example of that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.HappySilp
When you are an officer you have to follow your superior order even when it might not always be correct. That's what officer do they. I am pretty sure a lot of them don't agree with what's going on but as their duty they have to or they can quit.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that part of modern Chinese culture?
Where independent thought is frowned upon, while actions that promote the betterment of the country is required?
This is also why an unarmed populace is in serious danger. This is also why many governments go out of their way to disarm their people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 68style
Psshhh... and members of the nazi party were just following orders too right?
They're still being hunted down and tried for their war crimes to this day. This is a bullshit and nonsense excuse proven wrong by history.
Sorry, but that is the worst possible argument you could ever have on ANY law, let alone such an open ended one run by a fucked up government like China.
Just ask the Canadians who were arrested for completely made up reasons, all because China had one of their spies arrested in Canada. These people still have yet to be heard from since. We don't even know if they're still alive.
And from there, we'll have whatever other insane law China decides to add. Oh you made a Winnie the Pooh meme? Boom, never heard from again. Then comes the public surveillance, which they already do in many parts of the country.
Don't want to be mean here, but give your head a shake
Reading the rest of your post wants me really mad, so I'll just stop here. Fucking hell
I don't mean to piss you hk guys off, but do you think anything is going to change ? It's Chinese Communist party man. 50 years ain't exactly a longtime. Slow errosion or fast take over, all your cherished rights and privileges are going away sooner or later. You're even lucky to have some sort of a voice, my dad tried that shit back in 89 and almost got him killed.
You guys keep thinking Hong Kong is special. It aint. It's China now, it's been a part of China since 97. They'll do with their property as they see fit and they'll trample all who oppose them. I ain't a big fan of the CCP either and that's why we left Shanghai.
HK and it's people will have be assimilated into the rest of the 1.5 billion Chinese underneath a communist regime.
To all the former Vancouverites residing in HK reading this: Come Home. Is money worth all this Bullshit? Is cool nightlife and cheap food worth seeing your freedoms slowly chiselled away? Do you want your kids to grow up in this kind of environment?
We will welcome you back with open arms as our former compatriots and neighbours. Heck, I heard there's a few thousand empty condos you can move right into.
It seems to me that you haven't fully grasped the situation in Hong Kong. The case of the Hong Konger killing his gf in Taiwan was only a made up excuse that the HK CEO used to kickstart the extradition law. A bunch of reputable lawyers in HK have already written a lengthy explanation of how Hong Kong could easily have leveraged its current and existing laws to arrange for a 1-off extradition. Taiwan has also previously request Hong Kong to transfer alledged criminals from Hong Kong to Taiwan in the past, but Hong Kong had ignored those previous requests.
Britain has specifically avoided negotiating an extradition deal between China and Hong Kong since its Sino-British Joint Declaration in 1984 because people in Hong Kong never had any trust toward's China's so-called legal system. In order words, it is by design that there is no extradition law to China. The current HK CEO only wants to change it now because she has been ordered to do so by her CCP bosses.
For a better explanation of why an extradition law with China is a bad idea, Chris Patten, the last British-HK governor explains it really well here:
From what I read, it all started with a man who killed his girlfriend in Taiwan, then he travelled back to Hong Kong and Taiwan could not extradite him back for prosecution. He was then charged in HK with a lesser crime, money laundering and will get like 29 months in jail.
Now who wouldn't want this bastard to face the full extent of the law? This is the impetus for the extradition law. The extradition law originally was pretty encompassing but since the protests, it has been scaled down to serious crimes like murder. What is the problem here? What is there to debate?
To all the former Vancouverites residing in HK reading this: Come Home. Is money worth all this Bullshit? Is cool nightlife and cheap food worth seeing your freedoms slowly chiselled away? Do you want your kids to grow up in this kind of environment?
We will welcome you back with open arms as our former compatriots and neighbours. Heck, I heard there's a few thousand empty condos you can move right into.
To all the former Vancouverites residing in HK reading this: Come Home. Is money worth all this Bullshit? Is cool nightlife and cheap food worth seeing your freedoms slowly chiselled away? Do you want your kids to grow up in this kind of environment?
We will welcome you back with open arms as our former compatriots and neighbours. Heck, I heard there's a few thousand empty condos you can move right into.
I get what you're saying, but when a place becomes your home, it's not easy to just decide to get up and go. Not everyone is a rich banker who makes millions and goes out every single night for drinking and fancy dinners, and was only here because of a great compensatory housing package and to sling dick for a while.
I get what you're saying, but when a place becomes your home, it's not easy to just decide to get up and go. Not everyone is a rich banker who makes millions and goes out every single night for drinking and fancy dinners, and was only here because of a great compensatory housing package and to sling dick for a while.
IMO, the easier question to ask yourself is -- would you want your children to live and grow up in such a twisted society where there is no freedom of so many different kinds?
I, for one, cannot imagine growing up in a place like this, and I am forever thankful that my parents have sacrifiiced everything they had, and uprooted themselves so that I can grow up in a (relatively) free country.
I don't mean to piss you hk guys off, but do you think anything is going to change ? It's Chinese Communist party man. 50 years ain't exactly a longtime. Slow errosion or fast take over, all your cherished rights and privileges are going away sooner or later. You're even lucky to have some sort of a voice, my dad tried that shit back in 89 and almost got him killed.
You guys keep thinking Hong Kong is special. It aint. It's China now, it's been a part of China since 97. They'll do with their property as they see fit and they'll trample all who oppose them. I ain't a big fan of the CCP either and that's why we left Shanghai.
HK and it's people will have be assimilated into the rest of the 1.5 billion Chinese underneath a communist regime.
I'm curious, did anyone actually think that China was going leave Hong Kong and it's special administration alone in perpetuity?
Based on China's track record, that would seem pretty naive to me.
IMO, the easier question to ask yourself is -- would you want your children to live and grow up in such a twisted society where there is no freedom of so many different kinds?
I, for one, cannot imagine growing up in a place like this, and I am forever thankful that my parents have sacrifiiced everything they had, and uprooted themselves so that I can grow up in a (relatively) free country.
If I'd planned to ever have kids, I probably would have left long ago. I'm only concerned about myself and the rest of my family, and the rest of the country really, when it comes to human rights. I love Hong Kong, but like every place in the world, it has some problems. Some of which do and don't apply to me personally. Not having children, many of them don't apply to me.
I am against the bill obviously, but I personally will be safe from it until they start really abusing it. These posts themselves wouldn't be possible if I was in China. So while I am not acutely worried about getting taken away to China, it's just infuriating to see happen to my home.
Protests against a tyrannical Chinese government. Surrounds an high profile government building and shuts down an entire business district.
Gets mad when Police stops them.
This isn't some 50 people in a park shutting shit. This is a million people surrounding an government building with politicians and top secret private documents of the governing body and its officials. It just takes 1 idiot to do something stupid to turn the whole situation very very violent. You think the Hong Kong government and police is gonna risk that sort of shit? This ain't a game.
I'm all for protesting for freedom, but don't play victim when the cops come and stomp you. It takes more than just whining for freedom.
I'm curious, did anyone actually think that China was going leave Hong Kong and it's special administration alone in perpetuity?
Based on China's track record, that would seem pretty naive to me.
That was definitely a consideration when I moved here, but back then there was very little interference. When I first moved here, you wouldn't even see China flags in front of government buildings, it would be the HK flag, with China below it sometimes. There weren't even mandarin announcements on the MTR. It looked like they were going to abide by the constitution, which specifically says that they can't BEGIN to do ANYTHING in Hong Kong until after 2047. In that case, these kinds of bills wouldn't even be talked about until then.
But then the leadership in China changed, and if you guys don't know, just consider how crazy you think Kim Jong Il was, and Kim Jong Un is... Well that's who China has in power now. He is changing their constitution, adding in cultish laws with full cooperation of the CCP, and in fact has made it so he can rule in perpetuity. Not even Mao had that
So they've been constantly trying to meddle in Hong Kong, and HK has fought back constantly. They tried to add mainland brainwashing into elementary cirriculum, but HK successfully fought it, They tried to add other things, but HK constantly fought them back. It's been escalating each time, each new law more ridiculous and cultish CCP than the last. And now we're here.
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