Activists trying to remove Chinese signs in Richmond

[$_$]

Originally Posted by twdm

When you start paying their taxes and own their businesses, then you can decide what language they speak. As the city councillors have already decided, your opinion is irrelevant.

If you want everyone to speak english the solution is very simple, subject every Canadian citizen to the TOEFL or whatever english test you want and deport people who fail. At least it won't discriminate based on race and deport the surrey jacks or equivalent who failed high school. If these high school rejects can't speak proper english or try to learn, then why are they immune to the repercussions? While we're at it, let's deport the elderly parents of law-abiding and tax paying canadians because they can't speak english.

Pretty much this - minus the attitude lol. If Canadian community as a whole (IE us the Canadians) have a problem with the lack of English Proficiency this should be implemented at the head of the problem: before citezenship. But to infringe on their rights on freedom of speech after they have already become citizens is like telling another person how to run their business - it really isn't as simple as just "signs". It's a slippery slope towards governments controlling the free markets and dictating how businesses are allowed to advertise.

[hotshot1]

Originally Posted by Lomac

wtf



By the way, what's VPS?

Oh yeah, I meant VSB - Vancouver School Board.

Originally Posted by melloman

You are the problem with today's society.

Fuck this thread.

I get it, I state my opinion and you don't like it, but instead of discussing it, you say that I'm the problem. Yeah ok.

Originally Posted by Culture_Vulture

you do realize that all formal institutional structures still operate in English, right?
the relative success you see in these stores that cater specifically to Chinese-speakers is due to the fact that there IS a cultural enclave surrounding the borders of Richmond, that admittedly sometimes permeates into Vancouver (South) and parts of Burnaby.
Still, these businesses are largely fueled by the same type of people: non-English speakers with no intention of learning English. Where does this money come from then, you ask? Well it sure as shit ain't coming from outside the community. Sure, you have your typical rich Chinese folks who bring all their money from overseas, but honestly I have a hard time seeing a closed economy like the one Richmond has being successful in the long run.

And this is why (beyond the obvious reason that the Chinese have a strong food culture) the market in Richmond is dominated by restaurants, more restaurants, and luxury goods, with only a few essential services that are eventually needed. Did I mention there are a lot of restaurants? What the fuck can you do on a macro level if you don't even speak the language?

I don't understand what your point is. So what if it's like that? The market will correct itself. If people are only putting up restaurants, then its a giant opportunity for someone else to offer those essential services that aren't there. Capitalize on that and you'll get rewarded. And if the economy fails, so be it. Maybe the house prices will fall and people other than Chinese people will move there and set up businesses. Whatever happens, just let it happen naturally.

Why do you guys want English on the store signs so bad? According to Wiki, the percentage of people who identify as Chinese is 50%. I'm guessing most of them can speak at least a little English. So what if there are some stores that cater only to the miniscule percentage non-English speaking people? Why give a fuck? If the signs aren't in English, you're probably not gonna go there anyway. Why make it inconvenient for them? They're not breaking any laws so I don't see why everyone's so against it. Are you scared that in the future, the Chinese may or may not take over Richmond and you wanna keep that from happening?

[EmperorIS]

Some of you people really need to understand what official language means... you guys sound like a bunch of racist rednecks telling people what to say and what to do without actually understanding what the term freedom of expression even means or what your country stands for

I am not protecting Chinese people here but you guys just sound so damn ignorant.

[drunkrussian]

Originally Posted by Great68

What I'm noticing in this thread is that too many people like yourself are trying to make this an economic system style debate (Capitalist vs communist). To be honest that's a bullshit debate anyways.

For me this is a CULTURAL debate.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for business name to be stated in english or french on a business sign. I don't care if it's in teeny tiny letters compared to the rest of the sign, just that it be on that sign.

Things like this just perpetuate the cultural divide and stereotypes in a "multicultural" society like Canada.

+1 sick of these freshly graduated university students applying fucking supply and demand and game theory to every goddamn issue. Thinking means looking at sociological, political, economical and cultural factors in a given problem, not applying science in it. We've all seen scarface - we know what supply and demand is. Let's move on to a grown person conversation now.

[Gridlock]

Originally Posted by Graeme S

Your opinions are welcome, your ad-hominem attacks are not. Take this as a friendly warning.


Also, to be clear:

This was poorly puncutated yet not unreasonably stated.
"Not learning English is not the same as trying to learn English, and then as an English-speaking Asian person being told "Fuck off, Chink", while attempting to integrate into society"

His point is valid, and the racial epithet was used to make a point rather than target a racial group. I would also assume that anyone going by the username Taiwan Domestic Market would be speaking from anecdotal experience--either personal or relayed.

I think this is the best mod post I have ever seen on rs. Very well done. There is a fine line between racism and talking about it.
Posted via RS Mobile

[EmperorIS]

Originally Posted by Great68

What I'm noticing in this thread is that too many people like yourself are trying to make this an economic system style debate (Capitalist vs communist). To be honest that's a bullshit debate anyways.

For me this is a CULTURAL debate.

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for business name to be stated in English or french on a business sign. I don't care if it's in teeny tiny letters compared to the rest of the sign, just that it be on that sign.

Things like this just perpetuate the cultural divide and stereotypes in a "multicultural" society like Canada.

You can't have a intelligent cultural debate on this topic, you just can't. Not having English words on your business sign is not a culture issue, it's a business decision made by individual store owners. It does not create cultural division, its intolerant people that cant adapt or face differences in our society creates division.

It is not too much to ask for English words on a sign, but getting petition to force people to do it is the WRONG way and not what this country stands for.

If you want to make this a culture debate then what is CANADIAN culture? Christmas? Easter? Hockey? so by what you are saying if you don't celebrate these things you are automatically perpetuating cultural division? Canada is a multicultural society that borrows a lot culture from others around the world. That what makes us so ethnically rich and a great country. Not with the attitude: "you come to our country, you better speak our official language and if you don't you can get out". and Official language doesn't mean the language you MUST speak. Its refers to the language used within its government - its courts, parliament, administration, etc. - to run its operations and conduct its business.

Running a business in your own language is not an issue and shouldn't even be brought up in the first place. The reason it did, and the reason this thread is still ongoing is because of the intolerant people that are either racist or just plain ignorant that can't stand for things different and strange to them. They are confused, they are scared so they start blaming things. Guess where else did this happen? NAZI GERMANY. This is why you need to learn history kids.(referring to my other post in a different thread :P)

[?uestlove]

who cares. fuck richmond

[dinosaur]

I'm digging where this discussion is going....hasn't been an entertaining thread in a while.

Keep it up boys!

[bcrdukes]

Originally Posted by Gridlock

I think this is the best mod post I have ever seen on rs. Very well done. There is a fine line between racism and talking about it.
Posted via RS Mobile

From Nazi Mod to Best Mod.

Wow. Only on Revscene.

[Tim Budong]

As a Richmond resident all my life, there is one valuable thing that many of the early immigrants from the 90s picked up.

I can read/kind of write chinese. I know the traditions and customs of Hong Kong at the same time, embrace and be proud to be Canadian. This is now missing in Vancouver in GENERAL. Not just Richmond.

Everything starts within the younger generation and you have to start by building a foundation there.

This is how true multiculturalism should be. Some of you say that all these Asian places frown upon white people walking into their business, this is not true. These non-chinese are willing to adapt to the surroundings. If someone can't serve you at an establishment, someone else will. One way or another, they will take your money.

I worked in the food industry in Richmond, the Asian dominance is there, but all it takes is one or two people inside the business to be able to communicate in english with someone to get more business. Its not always about the signage, its how different races of people can come together and interact.

in fact, you will sometimes find white folks in lido, as there are people that speak english and CAN interact with the customer.

anyways... The comment section on the province is a much more entertaining read and will give you an insight from the older folks on this issue.

Chinese signs in Richmond to stay after council rejects proposed English bylaw

[dinosaur]

Originally Posted by bcrdukes

From Nazi Mod to Best Mod.

Wow. Only on Revscene.

Jealous?

[Everymans]

The french thing is a tad bit ridiculous. I doubt there's a single french only speaking person in richmond. The 70/30 thing does make sense though. I hate making deliveries to random stores in richmond where the name and number of the store are tiny and sometimes non existant, where menus don't even have english on them. I guess if that's how it is, only people who can read and understand the language can go in? Like buddy above me said, I have less reason to go to a place where i'm not very welcome. I'm not going to learn chinese just so I can understand business or street signs in my own country. But then again, we don't speak cree or any native languages or have any of their signs hangin around, even on reserves it's rare.... Hopefully engrish doesn't go the way of the natives.

[bartone]

I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather see Chinese signs that I can't read versus poorly Google translated signs in English or English written pronunciation of the Chinese word.

[Tim Budong]

to tell us that your friend's uncle's brother's girlfriends aunt got rejected or turned down at a restaurant/shop is BULLSHIT and I don't buy ANY of what some of you have said.

just sayin

[drunkrussian]

you know, people who live in richmond are the ones who truly know that it's not "all chinese people in richmond". It's those who don't live there that think that

richmond has a huge indian population and steveston is now very very much consisting of a ton of russians (unfortunately) and israelis. Filipinos are also a huge group in richmond; their 12 year olds enjoy beating my grown ass at basketball. Also africans are taking over the number 5 area and the area between richmond and new west has always been a heavily african-canadian populated area. Rich white farmers also live near here, as opposed to the brown farmers who live in the non-wilderness areas of richmond

here's a 2006 census which shows you that richmond is not even close to all chinese:
http://www.richmond.ca/__shared/asse...icity20987.pdf

unfortunately i could not find an updated one but i know for a fact that there are a shitload more of the groups i mentioned above now than ever before. Of course a lot more mainland chinese immigrants too.

not really talking about the sign situation anymore...just saying...it's annoying when people think richmond is 100% chinese people and bad drivers. I live in east van now and see far more asian people here (not that i'm complaining...a lotta them are hot and korean ) and the drivers are total pricks around here.

[$_$]

Originally Posted by darthchilli

As a Richmond resident all my life, there is one valuable thing that many of the early immigrants from the 90s picked up.

I can read/kind of write chinese. I know the traditions and customs of Hong Kong at the same time, embrace and be proud to be Canadian. This is now missing in Vancouver in GENERAL. Not just Richmond.

Everything starts within the younger generation and you have to start by building a foundation there.

This is how true multiculturalism should be. Some of you say that all these Asian places frown upon white people walking into their business, this is not true. These non-chinese are willing to adapt to the surroundings. If someone can't serve you at an establishment, someone else will. One way or another, they will take your money.

I worked in the food industry in Richmond, the Asian dominance is there, but all it takes is one or two people inside the business to be able to communicate in english with someone to get more business. Its not always about the signage, its how different races of people can come together and interact.

in fact, you will sometimes find white folks in lido, as there are people that speak english and CAN interact with the customer.

anyways... The comment section on the province is a much more entertaining read and will give you an insight from the older folks on this issue.

Chinese signs in Richmond to stay after council rejects proposed English bylaw

So many white racists on the comments section lol ...

China and the logic of it all (Turning a blind eye?)
In actual fact brother (or sister) WE have a huge problem. Most of the postings on here appear to be designed to wake us up to the fact that the Chinese are much more than just another group of immigrants. Of course we should mention that we do respect our Canadian Chinese, BUT, these people that are coming now are coming in hordes and these ones show every sign of having malice in their hearts. They are, as many of us believe, here on a mission, sent not only with the blessing of the Chinese government but under the direction of same.

They are working feverishly to build foundations in Ontario. Places like Markham and Richmond Hill starting to resemble Richmond BC already, and practice the same refusal to integrate, speak the language, and signage and advertising designed to communicate with Chinese only. Complaints coming out of these areas from white neighbours mirror those complaints we hear in BC.

Chinese are already flowing into New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and rumour has it that Inuvik has more than its fair share already, Chinese are taking crash courses in French, and this results in an almost automatic acceptance of them as prime immigration candidates to that province. However reports have it that as soon as they hit Quebec they run for the airport and head for BC or Ontario. They are feverishly buying up large agricultural tracts of land in Saskatchewan for the purposes of providing China with a food source. As I mentioned in a post a few months ago, I have heard it from the very people involved that Hitler himself sent, sponsored, financed German Nationals to come here as "refugees" to purchase farms across Canada and to learn to run them efficiently so the German Army would have a safe, reliable food supply once they landed in Canada. History repeats itself and we all have good reason to believe that China would and is doing the same. Remember Pearl Harbour. When the Japanese planes were advancing along the coast of Hawaii, the military and the government poobahs ridiculed their own spotters who were there to report any approching enemy aircraft. Of course they got hit hard. Do not rely on the government of the day to protect us from this, they are either on the take or as in the case of many of them, they have absolutely no street smarts whatsoever.

CSIS and the RCMP are and have been very concerned in regards to the Chinese, and they have said on numerous occasions but the Chretien Government played these reports down and the Chinese just kept coming, and still are. Harper on the other hand is obviously oppressing voices of concern convinced of the invulnerability of his own obviously flawed judgement. We are being invaded.

In fact we are being invaded by commercial aircraft, make no mistake about it! If Canadians were to really roll up their shirt sleeves and start communicating with each other and the government we could solve to this issue in a matter of weeks if not days. The problem is that Canadians (other than the war of 1812, which our idiotic government makes such a big deal about) have never had a direct threat to their country. Well they do now! Some of us have been working this RnR for months to wake up at least a few Canadians, and many ask what they can do. Well, what they can do to save our country does not require any bloodshed or firearms........yet,
but it does require a little bit of each persons time. Just communicate publicly so other people can be educated about what is going on here. Use twitter, email, facebook whatever, but do something at least! When you think of how many young men and women died trying to preserve our freedom, how can you turn a blind eye any longer?

[Tim Budong]

Originally Posted by drunkrussian

you know, people who live in richmond are the ones who truly know that it's not "all chinese people in richmond". It's those who don't live there that think that

richmond has a huge indian population and steveston is now very very much consisting of a ton of russians (unfortunately) and israelis. Filipinos are also a huge group in richmond; their 12 year olds enjoy beating my grown ass at basketball. Also africans are taking over the number 5 area and the area between richmond and new west has always been a heavily african-canadian populated area. Rich white farmers also live near here, as opposed to the brown farmers who live in the non-wilderness areas of richmond

here's a 2006 census which shows you that richmond is not even close to all chinese:
http://www.richmond.ca/__shared/asse...icity20987.pdf

unfortunately i could not find an updated one but i know for a fact that there are a shitload more of the groups i mentioned above now than ever before. Of course a lot more mainland chinese immigrants too.

not really talking about the sign situation anymore...just saying...it's annoying when people think richmond is 100% chinese people and bad drivers. I live in east van now and see far more asian people here (not that i'm complaining...a lotta them are hot and korean ) and the drivers are total pricks around here.

Spot on.

The real problem begins when Mainland Chinese immigrants and their relatives and families start to poop publicly, then we have a problem. no joke, its a real problem

[Culture_Vulture]

Originally Posted by darthchilli

Spot on.

The real problem begins when Mainland Chinese immigrants and their relatives and families start to poop publicly, then we have a problem. no joke, its a real problem

I really wonder what got into their stupid tiny skulls that makes them think this was a good idea...

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by $_$

So many white racists on the comments section lol ...

Not necessarily white people are the ones complaining - you hear the exact same thing in Hong Kong all the time. And they actually can get MUCH worse.

[AzNightmare]

There seems to be a lot of whining. Generally, the Asian area in Richmond, aka Golden Village, have English everywhere.

People are just whining about the few stores here and there that don't have English.
And I bet those are the same stores that people wouldn't go to anyway even if it ONLY had English due to the random "asiany" stuff they sell that no white person would care about.

The real reason (white) people don't go poking around to those Asian places is because of the cultural difference in the first place. You think a mass of white people don't go to Chinese restaurants because of a language barrier? Like 99% of Chinese restaurants I went to have English and Chinese on the menu. So what's the BS excuse? Why do I barely ever see white (or non chinese) in there?

Fact is, a highly concentrated place of different culture wouldn't attract most people, unless they are prepared to "explore". I use myself for example, I go past the Punjabi market areas on Fraser and Main all the time. Yet after decades, I have never really taken time to step foot in any of thsoe stores. Why?

Because I simply have no interest in going to Indian places. Nothing to do with racism. Just a different culture. But I'm not going to go cry a river about the signs not being big enough in English, and use that as an excuse for not wanting to go to those places. In fact, I think most of the stores do have English signs there.

[Ronin]

Nobody calls it the Golden Village.

[AzNightmare]

Originally Posted by Ronin

Nobody calls it the Golden Village.

I know...
But it was simply to point out that Richmond isn't ALL Chinese/asian.
I was basically saying Richmond =/= Chinese
Golden Village = Chinese.

[noventa]

fucking time to get me some sweet and sour pork in richmond. Didn't know there is such large population of chinese locally.

[!SG]

hmm, how to go abouts this, its like a black guy dropping the n word...
is it racist? or just poor taste.

as requested by Graeme, he is suppose to have this handled. if it escalates, then ill step in.

but for now, points. love it or hate it, still poor taste of words.

Originally Posted by twdm

If they want to be welcome then they are free to learn english and join them.
It's not the same as them learning english and being told fuck you, don't like chinks, go elsewhere.

[!SG]

way too many pages to sift through,

my opinion, all signs need to have their english counter part there, regardless if that is the shops name or not.

signs in richmond need their english counter part up. its part of moving to canada to start your business. yes your clientel is 100% asian, but the land your business operates on isnt. English is the official first language here on the west coast.

If the business was in quebec, then you'd need french in there too, yeah, sucks you have to have a big sign to hold all languages, but thats part of doing business in canada.