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Old 09-03-2021, 05:56 AM   #12351
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The fact that covid is contagious or infectious, in isolation alone, is too simple of an argument to warrant the magnitude of action that our government wants to take against a segment of our population who are unvaccinated. If you were to rely on that contagious aspect alone, you wouldn't be able to explain why we as a society are okay with people freely spreading the cold and flu to each other without any restrictions. The only reason and valid argument to support extreme measures against the unvaccinated is to prevent hospitals from being overrun, which covid has the potential to do but not the flu, not to prevent infections overall.

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No one is relying on the contagious aspect alone lol. These rules that are being put in place are complex. You keep going back to these comparisons, that are totally irrelevant.
We as a society are “ok” with the flu because
It doesn’t overwhelm the hospital system
It doesn’t kill 5 million people in a little over a year EVEN AFTER SHUTTING THE ENTIRE WORLD DOWN MULTIPLE TIMES.
You’re suggesting that we invest tens of billions of dollars in revamping our hospital system, accept many more deaths and severe illnesses than necessary, instead of people getting vaccinated because they don’t like it.
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Westopher is correct.
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seems like you got a dick up your ass well..get that checked
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Well.. I’d hate to be the first to say it, but Westopher is correct.
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Old 09-03-2021, 06:24 AM   #12352
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No one is relying on the contagious aspect alone lol.
If a poster only mentions the contagious aspect as a counter-argument, why would I assume anything else when responding to that poster? That would be putting words in someone's mouth that they never said. Last time I checked, we never get credit for ideas and reasons that we never actually write down or say.

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... instead of people getting vaccinated because they don’t like it.
I guess only time will tell whether this is an effective solution. As I wrote before, I don't think this will change people's mind who are already entrenched in their position that they are not going to get vaccinated. In fact, I think it will only embolden them.

By suggesting that we invest in increasing ICU capacity, I am not suggesting that we give up on vaccination. We should continue to push vaccination as much as 'reasonably' possible but the latest studies are showing that even with high vaccination rates, additional restrictive measures will be required to overcome the delta wave such as masking, social distancing, and possibly another lockdown. My perspective is that increasing in ICU capacity is the best way to avoid that lockdown scenario since hospitalization is the key determining factor.
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Old 09-03-2021, 06:34 AM   #12353
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Increasing ICU capacity is not effective if there's no one to staff it.
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Old 09-03-2021, 06:40 AM   #12354
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You can think that the person knows only that one sentence from their post if you like, but if you provide a solution based on only that one piece of info while knowing there are other relevant factors you are ignoring, the solution really holds no weight whatsoever, right? It’s really just telling someone they are wrong while being completely wrong in your own way as a rebuttal.
The vaccine uptake after the announcement would say that it did have an effect on more people getting vaccinated as appointments for first doses have doubled the week it announced over the previous week. Again, you aren’t wrong that people will use it as ammunition not to get vaccinated, but people also will use it as a reason to get vaccinated.
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seems like you got a dick up your ass well..get that checked
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Old 09-03-2021, 07:23 AM   #12355
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The numbers will tell if the passport was effective or not. If the percentage of people who get vaccinated due to being shut out of “non-essential” businesses only goes up a percent or 2, id say the program was a failure.
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Old 09-03-2021, 07:37 AM   #12356
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Old 09-03-2021, 08:01 AM   #12357
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The numbers will tell if the passport was effective or not. If the percentage of people who get vaccinated due to being shut out of “non-essential” businesses only goes up a percent or 2, id say the program was a failure.
https://twitter.com/j_mcelroy/status...031088645?s=20 - It appears to be working.

That said, we're at the point of diminishing returns so a 1-2% increase in vaccinations would be a pretty meaningful victory. The pool is relatively small of people who aren't vaccinated now but we're still not at herd immunity.

The lady who cuts my hair has been resisting a shot for months until I told her she'd be banned from restaurants etc - even though she doesn't use any of those businesses she said she'd go get her shot now. Little things like that add up.
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Old 09-03-2021, 08:04 AM   #12358
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Most businesses owners interviewed are in favour of vaccine passport (unless they are not airing those who disagree with it). They say it is one way to keep their businesses open as we are in the midst of a 4th wave. They don't want to shut down again and again and again.

Vaccine passports also makes other customers feel safer.

Eff the anti-vaxxers, you'll have to order take out, watch the Canucks game on TV, have your groceries delivered.
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Old 09-03-2021, 08:18 AM   #12359
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Nevermind.
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Old 09-03-2021, 08:18 AM   #12360
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Groceries essential.

Also fast food and food courts are not part of the checks.
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Old 09-03-2021, 08:24 AM   #12361
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Yep. All these people sharing these nazi meme comparisons talking about how their rights are violated and they aren’t allowed to go to the grocery store or move freely throughout their country seem to not realize
A) you can go to the grocery store
B) you can move wherever you want to in Canada. You just can’t fucking fly there utilizing a private business. Walk, drive, figure it the fuck out.
If you got better at medicine than a doctor from watching a few you tube vids, watch a few more and build a fuckin plane.
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Old 09-03-2021, 08:28 AM   #12362
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Most people bitching probably never patronize different restaurants anyways lol..

Like what you go to your little shitty pub once a month and now it’s like nazi Germany? Fuck
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Old 09-03-2021, 08:44 AM   #12363
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^^ but it's ma rights to pee on your establishments for telling me what to do
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Old 09-03-2021, 09:03 AM   #12364
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a few points to make:

1. It seems some people don't understand that you only go to ICU when your chances of dying are very high. Increasing ICU capacity isn't a meaningful solution because your plan shouldn't be based on the final stage before death. At our ICU, capacity wasn't increased throughout this entire ordeal. What did happen was that every room was converted to a negative pressure setup. Other wards were converted to isolated wings in order to deal with the influx of covid patients that didn't require ICU care.

2. Healthcare workers and hospitals are NOT ok with flu. If we as a society were ok with it, there wouldn't be a yearly vaccine for it. Think about that logic for just a second. Also, the flu can be dangerous but clearly not as deadly as covid has been. I believe it was 2017/2018 when our hospital had a huge flu season to deal with. Emergency wait times were 5-6 hours just to be seen. I'm not sure anyone who doesn't work in hospital can imagine the intense amount of stress that is involved with knowing there's 100-200 people in and outside the waiting room. One of the patient care coordinators (PCC) couldn't even sleep because she knew what kind of shit show was waiting for her once she came back to work the next day.

3. Increasing staffing is not as easy as it sounds. Training cannot and should not be "expedited". Rushing through and/or incomplete training will lead to issues, errors and possibly death. The pressure of speeding up the process in itself could motivate students to quit if they feel like they don't have adequate time to learn; especially since lives are on the line in these professions.

_______________________________________________

The solution to all of this is obviously very complex. I think the vast majority of us can agree that prevention is the best route to handling things. We started with distancing, mask usage and heightened sanitizing. We moved onto vaccination. We enjoyed a brief moment of normalcy. The unvaccinated drove the new variant to prominence in our communities. We had to revert back to distance and masks because of this despite being vaccinated. So yes, it makes sense to temporarily deny the unvaccinated access to non-essential services so that the rest of society can continue on.

Side note on staffing: I've worked 316 hours of OT this year alone so far. Basically every department is short of people. All sorts of staff have been working extra hours (sometimes for free out of the kindness of their hearts). It is quite understandable that healthcare workers are tired, stressed, overworked, and upset with the way certain segments of our society are behaving (ie the most recent protest outside of VGH). Most people who look at our situation and how reliant it can be on the collective intelligence of society, don't really want to step in and do this type of work.
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Old 09-03-2021, 09:07 AM   #12365
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I was at my condo’s gym last night and a guy who sometimes talks to me in the building told me he’d been on the fence the entire time about the vaccine not because he’s anti-vax but he felt nervous how short it was developed in and he doesn’t leave his house much but he told me he finally went to get it because he wanted to go to the gym and not be super paranoid and because of the passport thing.

I know at least 1 other guy that went to get it last week too because he’s been lazy the whole time and doesn’t work in the public but he decided to do it because he’s not going to be able to go anywhere.

So I guess it’s at least pushing the people who were on the fence.
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Old 09-03-2021, 09:12 AM   #12366
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Thanks for the eye opener spoon.ek9… man people need to stop thinking they know how shit works and have all the answers.
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Old 09-03-2021, 09:13 AM   #12367
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My company came out with their mandatory vaccine policy last week and your testament for vaccination yesterday. A very basic statement you sign off on saying if your single vaxxed or double vaxxed and the date of the second vaccination. No proof needed etc.

If you don’t want to declare it whether you’re vaccinated or not, you will have to sign out rapid tests and perform those rapid tests every single day prior to the start of work.

Thought it was completely fair and I had no problem signing off on the testament as I didn’t have to provide proof or my health number etc. Of course on the same day we had a union meeting and the union came out and said somthing along the lines of “all the company thinks of you is spit since you need to do rapid tests!”

It’s like Jesus Christ just shut the fuck up already
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Old 09-03-2021, 09:20 AM   #12368
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Old 09-03-2021, 09:23 AM   #12369
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Hope those rapid tests and shit are all off the clock and paid for by the person
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Old 09-03-2021, 09:33 AM   #12370
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Reminds me of a “No Fear” shirt I had in the 90’s

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Old 09-03-2021, 09:43 AM   #12371
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Thanks for the eye opener spoon.ek9… man people need to stop thinking they know how shit works and have all the answers.
He works for "the government" don't believe a word he says
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Old 09-03-2021, 10:10 AM   #12372
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I was at my condo’s gym last night and a guy who sometimes talks to me in the building told me he’d been on the fence the entire time about the vaccine not because he’s anti-vax but he felt nervous how short it was developed in and he doesn’t leave his house much but he told me he finally went to get it because he wanted to go to the gym and not be super paranoid and because of the passport thing.
some people who are this way are just using as an excuse i find.. i have a friend who said she is not anti vax but shes hesitant because she feels that it was 'rushed'. i asked her if i could show her that it wasn't rushed in the sense that they cut corners and she didn't respond to my offer lol
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Old 09-03-2021, 10:28 AM   #12373
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I similarly had a friend who was "wait and see" who got it today along with 5 "wait and see" coworkers

The "wait and see" people are at least coming around, and were never complete idiots, just misunderstood.
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Old 09-03-2021, 11:20 AM   #12374
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Jason Kenny now bragging his province is the first to offer $100 for anyone who gets vaxxed. That's not something to be proud of.
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Old 09-03-2021, 11:56 AM   #12375
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Like I said earlier, with FDA approval for Pfizer, the reasonable 'wait and see' crowd should be swayed. There are some anti-vaxxers that publicly will say softer things like, 'we'll wait and see' but they are closet anti-vaxxers.

FDA approval and vaccine passports is separating the cautious ones from the wacko ones.
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