so this has been on my mind lately. short trips are bad for the cars blah blah blah...
example: 10mins drive to work, where it sits for 9hours. 10mins drive home, where it sits until the next day and repeat.

but what about multiple short trips leading to operating temp before its long sit?
example: 5mins drive to the coffee shop, where it sits for 5mins. 10mins drive to the gym, where it sits for 1 hour. 15mins drive to work, hitting operating temp, where it sits for 9 hours.

The way I understand it is -- strictly speaking, it isn't short trips that are necessarily bad for the engine. Rather it is:

1. Cold starts are bad for the engine, bcos cold starts mean oil has probably drained off the engine internals, so there is very little to no oil coating and lubricating the engine internals. So engine wear becomes excessive.

2. Cold engine oil doesn't flow well, and may not / does not penetrate all engine components that should be coated with an oil film. No oil film on engine parts that come into contact with each other is bad news.

3. Short trips are bad if they didn't / could get the engine up to operating temperature. You want the engine to get to operating temperature because that can remove / burn off some of the nasty stuff that could harm your engine.

So in your first example -- there are only 2 cold starts. Both are bad, but there are only 2 cold starts.

In your 2nd example, your first 5 min drive to the coffe shop is a cold start, so that's bad. And bcos the drive is so short, your engine (and the engine oil) doesn't warm up to full operating temp, and there may not be enough time for the cold engine oil to circulate throughout the oil gallery. So when you start your car up again for the 2nd leg to the gym, there may not be enough lubrication for all the engine components yet, and that creates more wear, which is also bad. And then when you drive 15 min to work later, the 1 hour your car sat waiting might have caused some oil to drain back into the oil pan. So this engine start up is probably better than the other 2, but it is still not ideal.

to add to Traum's point, because being unable to reach operating temps, that accelerates the buildup of deposits on direct injected engines. At normal operating temps, the buildup is minimized due to the high temps, but its the cold start + low temps that causes buildup on the intake valves. Even toyota's D4S system (direct + port injected) isnt enough to mitigate all buildup (ive seen a few toyota borescopes that showed quite a bit of buildup even at 60,000 miles).

As for cold start, a heavier oil (fuck you toyota and your 0w8) will give more protection than a light weight oil, as more of the oil will "stick" to the metal. They keep saying the new oil addictive's mitigate this, but i dont fucking believe it. <--- see gm's "fix" with LS engines by using a heavier oil as remedy.

You guys worry way too much about this shit. When was the last time you drove or owned a car so long that the motor threw a rod or spun a bearing from day to day driving or even know someone that did becasue they drove to Starbuck too much?

Never, unless you own a Kia or Hundai

If you're that worried buy a pre-luber lol

BMW been doing it since 2022 in iX.

I’m in the “my 1zz spun a bearing from oil starvation at autocross” club

Toyota trash! :buttrock:

Pan baffles have entered the chat.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a6...oul-dead-2025/

Kia Soul being discontinued after selling about 1.5m units in the US. I never drove one but always thought it to be a cute and super practical car - the kind I would suggest to an outdoorsy friend or a city person on a budget. A stretched 3 row version of it would have been super rad or maybe an off-road themed one like an Element.

Wth. Why is the Soul getting canceled when Niro isn't?? Seems like they're walking away from decent brand equity for no reason.

The Niro probably sells more elsewhere, and the Soul probably doesn't. On balance they probably get more ROI on a Niro than Soul.

i've seen way more souls on the road around here than niros
i guess niros are more popular elsewhere

Not the same but I've been seeing a LOT more Nissan Maximas on the road here in the GTA than I have in my entire life. WTF is going on?

are they all driven by indians or black guys?

I loved my Kia Soul EV - it was the perfect econobox bread van EV. Sad to see the model line go.

I had a plush hamster to go with mine - it still stays with me in the car as a memory.

https://i.ibb.co/MjqZtJX/Hammy-Cupholder-Medium.jpg

Had to dig deep on reddit to find this post from like 10 years ago

Theres that area on the westbound 401 between the 427 and the 410, where you question your sanity, gazing into the weaving traffic, not a single signal light to be found.

People are going 10 under in the left lane and 50 over on the right shoulder. You're surrounded by dirty Nissan Altimas, with bad tint, blacked out tail lights, and spray painted rims. A beaten up mazda 3, now more rust than paint after 2 winters, just cut you off. You are now 2 km from the 410 north ramp. All the rusty dirty shitty cars are slamming their breaks and cutting to the right lane, still no signal lights.

You see a white crown Vic, thinking it's a cop, a savior. Only as you approach and the smell of burnt oil hits you, your hopes are dashed as realize it was a police auction surplus vehicle. They have their left signal on, but they're crossing into the right lane.

You see the off ramp sign. 410 north Brampton. You are approaching Brampton. It's almost over. Please let it be over. You must get past this off ramp. People in the left lane are now slamming on brakes, realizing they have 4 lanes of traffic to cross. You see all the Altimas, rusted Mazda 3's, 5's and a brown protege that used to be yellow, and police surplus vehicles miss the ramp by 4 meters, and immediately cut across the shoulder back on to the ramp. You are still in the left lane. The road ahead of you is finally serene, clear. No more smells, no more rust, no shitty spraypainted rims. You're finally safe.

it's Niro and Kona that are competitors isn't it?

Same car underneath

Right so with the Kona, why would kia need the Soul?

The Soul is boxier compared to the Kona and arguably sits a bit taller for passengers. I'm somewhat cramped in a Kona but fit comfortably inside the Soul.

Because of poorer countries where owning a Kona is a status symbol - looks sportier, more premium.

The Soul only sells in North America, the EV only version in Europe, and a little bit of Mexico.

I’m with you on this one. Never really cared too much but the topic has come up more than usual lately so it’s been on my mind. Im not about to ask the gf to start taking a longer route from point A-B-C so the engine gets up to temp on every drive. Thats too much stress.

That doesn't make any sense to me either. Why increase your gas, insurance, and maintenance costs, while reducing your resale value, just in the hopes of increasing long-term reliability which likely isn't going to be during your ownership anyways?

^depends on the owners habits. I always keep my cars for a long long time (unless it’s a lease, then I treat it like a piece of shit). Even longer than anyone reasonably should. Thus long term reliability and proper engine maintenance are important to me

Maybe if I had a brand new LC I would baby that shit too.