George Floyd protests in America

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

i liked the first analogy so it started off well
then it compared it to a communicable disease 'whether you know/like it'
um, guilt trip written all over that

I mean if we understand things differently I can't really argue about it, but I pretty much see it as the opposite of a guilt trip. How could anyone feel guilty about having a "disease"? How could you feel guilty for literally being unaware something? If anything, that person's statement should help you feel LESS guilty while at the same time open your eyes to the problem...

One of us really isn't understanding it properly, that's for sure. It's either a racist attack on white people, or trying to reason with people who otherwise never had to think of this stuff before... I guess it's not for me to say which of us is right.

[twitchyzero]

adrian dix is gonna rage tomorrow

[underscore]

Originally Posted by Hehe

And wtf are these people seeking? That we simply put the police guy on death bench and call it a day?

Well here's what the NAACP posted on Instagram:

[underscore]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

For every 10 violent rioter and protester, there are 100 or 1000 peaceful ones. Yet they are getting treated just as badly by many of the enforcement. Support these ones, give them your attention. Not the looters (who often are in a desperate situation BECAUSE of this system, but that's a separate discussion)

Case in point (I don't know how to embed this) https://i.imgur.com/BTlBWwe.mp4

If the link doesn't work a guy is using a hammer to break bricks loose, protestors grab him, get the hammer away from him and haul him over to the police.

edit: here's a tweet of it, maybe this will embed?

Twitter

[welfare]

Originally Posted by Jmac

If there was a multi-century history of white people being killed by black law enforcement in the US and a multi-decade history of it being caught on video for the world to see on a regular basis, then I could see your point.

And, of course, this is exacerbated by the systemic racism that has permeated through many parts of the US for most of its history.

Of the roughly 600,000 violent interracial crimes reported for the 2018 survey in the US, roughly 500,000 were black on white.
Black perpetrators committed 24% of all hate crimes, while making up only 12% of the population.
https://www.city-journal.org/democra...s-racism-crime

[westopher]

A simple cartoon with some humour to explain how it feels when people say "all lives matter"

[320icar]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

I wouldn't feel guilty for being white. I would feel guilty for not doing anything to allow the system changing for the better. I'd feel guilty for using that system to my advantage, knowing it puts other people below me. I'd feel guilty for saying "where does this shit end" the inference being "this shit" an attack on white people.

And I think the issue is that YOU and many others are using this undertone that all white people willingly know of this system, choose to do nothing and happily enjoy reaping all the benefits.

This goes back to what you said in a previous post about white people should ‘revoke their white privilege’ or whatever. Something almost impossible to quantify.

Want me to quit my lower middle class super generic grocery store job? Give up my right to universal health care that *every Canadian has a right to*? Or just be normal and not vote for racists

Edit: definitely not trying to get in an argument, I hate forums for shit like this and would rather sit down and have a coffee together. Just trying to understand exactly what you mean. Do you intend to suggest to whites in Canada (let’s say me in the GVRD) to literally give up our write privilege, or just be critical thinkers and do what we can to level the playing field (elect people in power we think have good judgement, teach our children to be fair and equal, etc)

[mikemhg]

^This.

I'm very much open to having a face-to-face discussion with someone such as Honda, or Welfare who seem to not understand the situation here.

There is some obvious trolling going on in this thread, and if anything here we are arguing about the very obvious.

Trevor Noah said it very eloquently in a recent post, and I've described this situation the same way. If you're having an issue with the rioting and destruction, the reality is society is in fact a contract, we in society agree to be civil with one another, taking into account that society is just for all.

The problem here is the people who are rioting, that are fed up, understand that this "contract" we call society is not being upheld by those in power. It is convenient for you to say "this isn't the way to protest", well what is then? There is no "right" way to protest. How can you have an affinity for a community that does not grant you the same rights that it does others outside of your race?

If society at large refuses to uphold the civil liberties and respect that it does for others of a different skin tone, there is no reason to follow that society's rules, as it is not serving all people equally. Hence the violence, and hence these protests.

What you are seeing is the personification of pure outrage, people are tired of this daily assault on basic human rights, and a society that has ignored this problem for far too long, if that results in some "looting" and burnt buildings, then so be it.

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by Hondaracer

I’m on the side of Rascism is a terrible scourge and until there is a time where the term “black people” or “my black brothers” isn’t a thing there will always be racism. As MG said Last page, this ain’t going away

I’m also against a societal system that creates incredible poverty, drug addiction and as a by product, these “hood rats” using hatches to bust open self serve tellers at inner city Targets.

This problem is so much deeper than whose side are you on. Frankly if I had to be completely honest I’m on the side of I don’t really give a fuck and the best thing I can do is to live my life in a way where I’m a general good person to everyone I come in contact with and don’t promote ideas of hatred or division, etc.

As I’ve said in other threads however, even our liberal govt. essentially sows “racist” ideas in their governing in matters such as the firearms ban etc. With the exclusion of Native people in these hugely sweeping legislation they enact with little to no consultation.

Most people I know are in a similar position to myself as you’re comfortably employed, you live a safe, happy, life. Even if you were to be slightly involved in some sort of demonstration etc. It could have a SEVERE negative effect on your personal well-being. So at the end of the day why would I stick my neck out for anything.

The way I look at it goes back to that firearms ban thread. Responsible, law-abiding gun owners who are against the ban have continually laid out why is this legislation is not only bad for gun owners but it’s essentially unconstitutional in its enactment which should be a HUGE red flag for everyone. But anyone who isn’t directly effected by it just comes back with”BuT WHy Do YoU NEed A AssAULt RiFLe?!?!”

Well if you’re not willing to look a little deeper into the issues that effect me, frankly I don’t care about the ones that effect you.

Hey bud, if you don't care about this subject, then get out of the thread then.

Go back to your firearm thread and cry about Trudeau stealing away your guns, no one is asking you to interject here.

[unit]

its amazing how many people still don't like to hear the words "black lives matter".

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

If you're having an issue with the rioting and destruction, the reality is society is in fact a contract, we in society agree to be civil with one another, taking into account that society is just for all.

The problem here is the people who are rioting, that are fed up, understand that this "contract" we call society is not being upheld by those in power. It is convenient for you to say "this isn't the way to protest", well what is then? There is no "right" way to protest. How can you have an affinity for a community that does not grant you the same rights that it does others outside of your race?

If society at large refuses to uphold the civil liberties and respect that it does for others of a different skin tone, there is no reason to follow that society's rules, as it is not serving all people equally. Hence the violence, and hence these protests.

What you are seeing is the personification of pure outrage, people are tired of this daily assault on basic human rights, and a society that has ignored this problem for far too long, if that results in some "looting" and burnt buildings, then so be it.

then go box in some gov't/police complex if the establishment is the root cause and not destroy and steal from small businesses
eye for an eye didn't work in 1992, nor HK last year (the reverse happened)

[pastarocket]

These are pictures of police showing support for protesters. Some cops are taking a knee, doing fist bumps with protesters, and holding signs to support the peaceful protests.

The pics that news outlets do not show in their headlines.







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[twitchyzero]

to expand on that, if you wanna see a good way to protest follow what those officers in Flint MI are doing taking off riot gear and marching with the protesters or the protesters trying to hold off the looters...because in already in fragile times with 110k dead in america last 2mos regardless of wealth and race, they need unity

Originally Posted by unit

its amazing how many people still don't like to hear the words "black lives matter".

good cause but the concern is some take it too far and make it more divisive than it has to be

ie: blocking ubc, vpd, vpl from marching in the pride parade

[mikemhg]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

then go box in some gov't/police complex if the establishment is the root cause and not destroy and steal from small businesses
eye for an eye didn't work in 1992, nor HK last year (the reverse happened)

I've said it in previous posts, target governmental buildings.

You say an eye for an eye didn't work in 1992, well neither has peaceful protest, has it?

Furthermore, comparing HK protests to this is a complete misnomer.

One is a homogeneous population protesting their autonomy from a government, the other is a protest about the basic human right to live, and being actively oppressed by the basis of your very race. These are two very different things here.

By the way, where was the outrage about the "looting" and "robbing" of the black community? Have you ever read about Black Wallstreet in Tulsa? Have you ever read about the GI Bill which invigorated the modern white middle-class in America, while entirely leaving out black servicemen, resulting in much of the wealth segregation we see in America today? Have you ever researched "redlining" and it's economic impacts on the black community?

Where is your outrage for that historical "looting"?

[mikemhg]

By the way, speaking to the 1992 riots, and your comment that nothing changed.

A study in fact was done on that very subject:

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journ...6D/core-reader

The study did in fact come to a conclusion that rioting had a positive effect on policy discussion:

"This study provides evidence for a plausible effect of violent protest on local policy support. Our results indicate that a riot can help build support for policy or symbolic goals by mobilizing supporters or building sympathy among others. We demonstrate that white and African American voters were mobilized to register, that new registrants tended to affiliate as Democrats, and that voters shifted their policy support toward public schools, net of a general shift in support for education spending. This mobilization appears to have persisted: those mobilized by the riot remained regular participators over a decade later and remained more Democratic than the general population, even after accounting for demographics."

Of course the data can be skewed somewhat, as LA's response to the riot was uncharacteristically positive in a policy sense, given that it happened in California. But food for thought nonetheless.

[Acura604]

Trump cant' even speak to his nation .. he doesn't know how to articulate words to unite everyone... instead...

they turn off the lights.

[Hondaracer]

On the flip sided BNN just had Somone on who went on about how the areas where those protests happened back then had MASSIVE downsides around the epicentre of the riots because there was mass exodus of both white people and other minorities as well as a huge number of businesses moving out. Essentially turning the area into ghettos in a incredibly short span because people did not want to live in those areas any longer nor did they think business would be viable.

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by mikemhg

Furthermore, comparing HK protests to this is a complete misnomer.

One is a homogeneous population protesting their autonomy from a government, the other is a protest about the basic human right to live, and being actively oppressed by the basis of your very race. These are two very different things here.

By the way, where was the outrage about the "looting" and "robbing" of the black community? Have you ever read about Black Wallstreet in Tulsa? Have you ever read about the GI Bill which invigorated the modern white middle-class in America, while entirely leaving out black servicemen, resulting in much of the wealth segregation we see in America today? Have you ever researched "redlining" and it's economic impacts on the black community?

Where is your outrage for that historical "looting"?

different cultural context but at the core they're both fighting oppression from the establishment

i can easily flip the same question to you: where's the outrage about ongoing genocides? they're fighting to live too, no? should we start a thread on those atrocities too?

Originally Posted by mikemhg

The study did in fact come to a conclusion that rioting had a positive effect on policy discussion:

i scrolled to the conclusion

Spoiler!

We focus on violent protest as a political tool for a low-status group in the United States. While other scholarship has examined other forms of political action and asked if it is efficacious for racial minorities and other low-status groups (Verba et al. 1995), the scholarly literature has largely failed to ask whether rioting is a useful tool for building policy support, even though, from the perspective of the rioters, this question is paramount. Here we show that violent political protest can spur political participation among people who share an identity with the rioters.

Although it often seems extreme from the American perspective, political violence is not isolated to particular regions or eras and is still common in many parts of the world. Moreover, the implicit threat of violence underlies the relationship between governments and citizens in many places. As the use of violence continues to be an active feature of our political system, our findings and approach may help future scholars better understand this important topic.

sounds like domestic terrorism to me

violence erodes sympathy for many
i agree with the other posters showing police officers kneeling/marching is more effective

[Traum]

I don't know what I can intelligibly say about the protests themselves, so I'll shut up and not say anything about that.

But one thing that deeply concerns me and is something that I can intelligibly mention is the numerous reports on police attacking members of the press when those members of the press are clearly and undeniably identifiable by numerous means. At least one reporter has been shot blind (much like how the exact same thing happened in Hong Kong).

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52880970

[pastarocket]

CNN reports that riot police are throwing tear gas at protesters outside the White House now.

Trumpy is trying to show the "tough guy " image before his speech scheduled for today at the White House's Rose Garden.

[6793026]

https://mashable.com/article/dallas-...-lives-matter/

Cops asking for snitches for videos of rioters breaking the law.

"If you have a video of illegal activity from the protests and are trying to share it with @DallasPD, you can download it to our iWatch Dallas app," they wrote. "You can remain anonymous."

Their web site crashed when everyone started to upload K-pop videos hahahahaha

In Chicago someone hacked the police frequency they used to broadcast stuff. The hacker blasted out NWA tunes. Stupid Chicago police, that system was not encrypted or protected.

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by 320icar

Edit: definitely not trying to get in an argument, I hate forums for shit like this and would rather sit down and have a coffee together. Just trying to understand exactly what you mean.

Right, I think that's the main issue because if this:

Originally Posted by 320icar

Want me to quit my lower middle class super generic grocery store job?

Is what you're getting from my posts, I must be doing a really bad job of communicating. And in my posts I've been saying all along that I don't think I'm doing a good job of it. That's why I tried posting quotes from smarter people, but that didn't work either... So I'll just stop...

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by pastarocket

These are pictures of police showing support for protesters. Some cops are taking a knee, doing fist bumps with protesters, and holding signs to support the peaceful protests.

The pics that news outlets do not show in their headlines.







Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've been saying that these protests have been largely a mirror image of what's going on here, but this is one major exception.

SOME leaders in the US have a goal of de-escalating situations, and get out there with people to talk to them. They also LET people protest peacefully, as long as they want. "Civil Disobedience" is not in itself illegal, even if there's a curfew.

That's what I was talking about before, the major difference being fighting an oppressive regime vs fighting a regime that uses oppression.

And to those who say HK "lost" the protests because of security law.. I think it's the opposite. They goaded China into not just "sorta ignoring the constitution just enough to not draw the ire of other countries" to completely burning it to the ground. Xi has thrown away 20 years of progress, and is going to keep going backwards as more countries say enough of this shit, we've been putting up with you way too long.

The HK protests really could eventually lead to very drastic changes in China. Last June that would have been insane to say, and now it's totally plausible. And the way this shit seems to be moving at warp speed, it could take months instead of decades

[twitchyzero]

Originally Posted by SkinnyPupp

as more countries say enough of this shit, we've been putting up with you way too long.

The HK protests really could eventually lead to very drastic changes in China. Last June that would have been insane to say, and now it's totally plausible. And the way this shit seems to be moving at warp speed, it could take months instead of decades

because of the pandemic, not so much from the protests last year

[SkinnyPupp]

Originally Posted by twitchyzero

because of the pandemic, not so much from the protests last year

Because of both. One more in terms of reputation, the other more in sanctions and other actions.

You're probably more aware of one than the other though, understandably.

But the national security law is a huge huge huge deal worldwide. They are breaking the deal they made, and that doesn't come without consequences. America no longer giving HK special treatment is a HUGE thing. HK doesn't have a high GDP, obviously, but their system is (was) crucial for international banking in China. It will cost them so much at the worst time possible. Hundreds of MPs and Governors around the world are getting ready to go deal with it; that kind of thing moves a bit more slowly than dealing with the virus, and now we have the protests in America to worry about.

So yeah, pandemic bit them in the ass in terms of reputation (since there's no proof yet of its origins nobody can definitively act upon this anyway) but throwing away the agreement they made in 1984 is actually what will lead to consequences.

Anyway this is a digression from this important topic, sorry about that.