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They aren't. And no one is arguing that.
But he's certainly not the saint that the media are making him out to be.
A criminal background is often all an officer has to gauge the level of threat they may face by an assailant. especially one who's 6'6" and high on fentanyl and methamphetamine.
It's definitely not a justification. But it's an important detail that, had the media a shred of integrity, would have reported.
I'm definitely not a blindless supporter of George Floyd, if the shit about him is true he surely wasn't a great person. What he's done in the past is irrelevant in what happened to him. He's already down and out at that point. He's on the ground with multiple officers around him. He didn't deserve to die like that and there's no "important detail" that changes what the officer did to him.
People bringing up his past really just shows how people are still clinging to some weird justification to what happened to him. He wasn't a threat to anyone when he died, what else do you have left to argue?
I'm definitely not a blindless supporter of George Floyd, if the shit about him is true he surely wasn't a great person. What he's done in the past is irrelevant in what happened to him. He's already down and out at that point. He's on the ground with multiple officers around him. He didn't deserve to die like that and there's no "important detail" that changes what the officer did to him.
People bringing up his past really just shows how people are still clinging to some weird justification to what happened to him. He wasn't a threat to anyone when he died, what else do you have left to argue?
20 people have died as a result of these protests. Most of them black. Many of them good people with morals. Some devoting their lives to serving the public. Yet there's been little to no recognition for them.
Were their lives somehow not worthy of coverage?
Seems that the only black lives that matter are those determined by the media to drive division.
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
I won't admit, then, that I'm a bit of an Empire Loyalist, hee hee.......
Why is it that western civilization seems to bare the brunt for slavery when nearly every single culture in history has engaged in the practice, ranging back from prerecorded time?
and even though western civilization is the SOLE culture responsible for its abolishment, it's only blamed. never credited.
The slaves traded through the transatlantic certainly weren't captured by Portuguese and Dutch. Most were enslaved by the feuding African tribes prior to being traded to these Europeans.
Why is slavery America's legacy when they received less than 5% of all slaves traded through the transatlantic? while the vast majority were shipped to Brazil and the Caribbean where, most perished due to the horrible living standards compared to America landed slaves.
The civilization that gave us the Magna Carta. The freest, fairest (however imperfect) civilization mankind has known.
Over 600,000 men died fighting to abolish the reprehensible practice. yet it's still occurring today in places like Libya, and without much regard from the 'tolerant' folks who can't tolerate the statues for the views held by some (white) men centuries ago in this current year. Go figure.
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
20 people have died as a result of these protests. Most of them black. Many of them good people with morals. Some devoting their lives to serving the public. Yet there's been little to no recognition for them.
Were their lives somehow not worthy of coverage?
Seems that the only black lives that matter are those determined by the media to drive division.
So what you're trying to say is the protests are worse than what caused them? These protests are because of generations of bullshit of killing black people for no good reason. You're trying to negate that by saying the protests caused more deaths than George Floyd. That's a crock of shit. How many black people over the last 50+ years have died just because it's been easy to sweep it under the rug? The only saving grace is technology that shows that you can't trust what the fuck cops say about a situation.
No one's death isn't "worthy of coverage". You're trying to muddy the waters by saying George Floyds death isn't worthy of the 20 deaths that followed his. Well if those 20 deaths are what sparked real change then they have saved countless deaths that would have happened in the future if people didn't decide to speak out.
did it matter 2 of the 4 officers were of African and Asian descent?
I really want to know why you believe this. Cop culture has proven they protect their own regardless of skin color. Do you really think if this was a white guy on wall street wearing a suit the way it went down would have been the same?
You can say "different neighborhood" all you want, but when your knee is on the back of their neck the situation is the same whether you're in Compton or Greenwich.
Why is it that western civilization seems to bare the brunt for slavery when nearly every single culture in history has engaged in the practice, ranging back from prerecorded time?
That's because slavery still affects people to this day. After slavery ended they still had segregation. Imagine being a child going to school surrounded by police/army while the parents of your classmates screamed nigger at you.
Some of the people yelling nigger in the 1960's are still living today. Do you think they treated blacks fairly in the 70's, 80s, 90's?
So what you're trying to say is the protests are worse than what caused them? These protests are because of generations of bullshit of killing black people for no good reason. You're trying to negate that by saying the protests caused more deaths than George Floyd. That's a crock of shit. How many black people over the last 50+ years have died just because it's been easy to sweep it under the rug? The only saving grace is technology that shows that you can't trust what the fuck cops say about a situation.
No one's death isn't "worthy of coverage". You're trying to muddy the waters by saying George Floyds death isn't worthy of the 20 deaths that followed his. Well if those 20 deaths are what sparked real change then they have saved countless deaths that would have happened in the future if people didn't decide to speak out.
do you think the small business owners (most of them minorities) in these cities who've had their livelihood destroyed by looters and rioters want less police presence?
Do you think the victims of the rampant violent crime that occurs in these neighborhoods want to 'defund the police'?
It's my opinion that the officers involved in Floyd's death should be prosecuted to the fullest extent. Which they are.
I'm not a psychic though, so i can't say what effect these broad measures will have on the communities police risk their lives to protect.
I can't say whether or not further restriction of police officers who had nothing to do with this, or any other unjust death is a good thing for those residents.
Or whether or not police forces will even be able to maintain recruitment, which has already been on a drastic decline prior to this.
But i know where I'd put my money. We reap what we sew.
__________________
Gold is the money of kings;
Silver is the money of gentlemen;
Barter is the money of peasants;
But debt is the money of slaves.
-Norm Franz
Ok, I said I wasn't going to reply anymore to this thread, but from the latest posts here, I thought I'd make another post because by keeping silence, I feel that I'm condoning the development and it's not what I think it's right for us and our kids in the future.
First, to just this thread here. For those pro-BLM here, when materials that go AGAINST your opinion, please at least have the decency of reading it through them before making any judgment. By simply ignoring them, you are simply doing what many of the BLM groups out there are doing: if it ain't black, WE DON'T CARE! Our world has never been all black and white. Many shades grays and other colors exist in between. By ignoring those, it's nothing short of naive for a lack of a better word.
Differences in our society are bound to happen. And when it does, you don't simply ignore other voices and stick only to your idea. We need to EMBRACE all the different opinions and find a middle ground that would move our society as a WHOLE better.
Once you read through the points raised by the other side, you can then counter it with your thoughts and points. This allows us to shape it for a better outcome. We would NEVER reach anything that could account for everyone. But we make them so that everyone can agree upon.
------------------
Now to the latest development of BLM.
Some of the ideas that BLM activist groups are suggesting is simply appalling if not downright disgusting.
They are blaming all the problems that African American are facing on racial inequality. That includes, but not limited to, education, income, poverty, crime rate... so on. They go on as saying the effect of slavery, over a century after, still account for most, if not all, of it.
I really want to ask... WHAT THE FUCK do they come up with this?! Like seriously.
We are born different. And that is the BEAUTY of humankind. We embrace and encourage diversity and many of the best and most successful stories in human history came out from being DIFFERENT.
Now, it has its downsides... some are born into a more "lucky" families than others. However, it is not an EXCUSE for the failure of many... whether you are black, white, yellow, brown or whatever skin/race/ethnicity you are.
I was born in a family that I consider normal to poor, at least for the majority of times of my childhood. We had very little luxury... my entire family slept on a single "bed", if we could even call a big platform made out of 2x4s and plywood with no mattress a bed and I had to pretty much deal everything on my own with my brother as my parents were too busy working their ass off. And they weren't born rich either. My dad barely finished elementary school before he left the city he was born for work and my mom was more or less the same except she did another year in what we consider here grade 7.
Something they always knew though... was that THEY NEEDED TO WORK HARD. So they never stopped working. Even today, in their late 60s they still do a weekly meeting with managements in their company to ensure every problem gets the attention they deserve. And they grow pretty much everything they eat except pork, beef and seafood.
When they are finally developing wealth, beyond what people consider a living wage, they still live a very modest life and never indulged themselves or me and my brother with anything worth mentioning. For as long as I can remember, the first time I felt we indulged on something was when my parents finally bought us the SNES that I and my brother had wanted it for so long (we wanted something to play with, seeing that all our classmates had NES or SNES after it came out) and that's ONLY AFTER me and my brother did great in our scheduled tests... 3 times in a role for the entire school year.
And that's basically what we have been taught. If we wanted ANYTHING, we HAD to EARN IT. At the very early stage of them becoming financially well off by most standards, they had made it clear that I and my brother wouldn't get any of that and they'd donate most of their wealth away except some portion for education for future generations.
So I worked my ass off. I consider myself lucky as I'm quite clever. I never had an issue with studying and had always been the very top of class for as long as I can remember. But that's because AGAIN... I WORKED MY ASS OFF. In Asia, we'd get our textbooks the first day of class. I'd finish reading EVERY ONE OF THEM by the weekend and then it's just NEVERENDING PRACTICE from there on.
Then we moved to South America because the business my dad had in Taiwan wasn't working anymore. We had to endure things unimaginable by North American standards. I remember seeing bugs like slimes on the wall everywhere and the floor was never exactly dry because of all the plumbing issues the place was having. Again, had to work our ass off... to learn a new language, to fit into a new society and South America, in the different countries we have been aren't exactly the most friendly with Asian faces and we had been robbed/tortured at gunpoint by people breaking into our place in the middle of the night and taking everything.
That never stopped us from WORKING OUR ASS OFF and feel that the society OWE us ANYTHING.
We proved to the people who looked down upon us wrong and succeed both financially and socially. I've made lifelong friends with all different races/social backgrounds, one of which I won't name, but he's a major football star now in Europe and we still grab a drink or have a dinner at home every time we are close to each other. He came from a much poorer family. And he also never stopped chasing his dream.
We are all very normal folks... each with our own gift that we made SURE to make the most out of it.
Now... with all that said... on WHAT GROUND do many people in the BLM movement say that SYSTEMATIC RACIAL DISCRIMINATION MADE IT IMPOSSBLE TO SUCCEED in their life?
Let's take even a step further.
George Floyd is not an innocent man... he had MANY MANY problems with the law before. It's a tragedy what happened to him, but it was NOT the CAUSE of what happened to his life before that day. He CHOSE to have a life like that.
BLM wants to argue that society never gave him the chance because he is black. That's a fucking insult to millions of black people who work their butt off for a chance to succeed in their life, which many of them did.
BLM wants to argue that the rest of the society, especially the whites, can have a better life because of their skin. That's a fucking insult to billions of people who are successful (not even by any special standard, just the BLM one) because they work their ass off and have black or any other color for that matter.
BLM wants to argue that the success of other people in America was built on slavery of the blacks. That's a fucking insult on millions of Americans who moved to America AFTER the slavery had ended.
BLM wants to argue that all cops are bad and corrupt so we should get rid of them. So, what are they suggesting? A lawless society where everyone is on their own?
And what example are they trying to make to our future generations?! If you don't succeed, blame it on something/someone else. People who are lazy AF deserves the SAME to those who work their ass off. People who has no respect to the society and its rules at all should have the same fortune than same as those who play by the rules?
Hard working does not guarantee success. But it's the BASIC INGREDIENT of that. Yes, there are lucky sperms... but those are a very very small percentages of our society. And kudos to their ancestors. Because I'm sure somewhere along the way, they had to do things/take decisions unimaginable/impossible to others to let their offsprings have a life like that.
----------------
Tl;dr
We want to eliminate any barriers/stereotyping/prejudice made to people base on their ethnicity/social/race. We do our best for people to meet the basic bar to have a normal decent life and pave ways for them to GROW from that bar onward. Lowering/eliminating the bar so that everyone can easily meet it just push us lower and lower each time. We as a society look to GROW... to BE BETTER. Not to always AIM for the lowest possible target. Becoming better is never easy, but it is NECESSARY. We owe it to ourselves and our future generations to be BETTER TOMORROW than today. Eliminate racial profiling is another step to be BETTER. Sadly, BLM is pushing things in a direction I cannot agree to and cannot stay silent about it.
I really want to know why you believe this. Cop culture has proven they protect their own regardless of skin color. Do you really think if this was a white guy on wall street wearing a suit the way it went down would have been the same?
You can say "different neighborhood" all you want, but when your knee is on the back of their neck the situation is the same whether you're in Compton or Greenwich.
what if he was Latino? and middle class ?
you can’t say skin colour doesn’t matter for police only for criminals (I say criminal given his history)
So, Hehe, your whole family has constantly worked it’s collective ass off... but what if every time you went to go work your ass off somewhere someone called the cops on you or told you they don’t hire your kind or refused to promote you cuz of your ethnicity or paid you less than your peers because of your ethnicity? What if your parents grew up multiple generations in a place that also denigrated them?
You’d be sitting there with drunk ass drug addicted parents in a ghetto eking out an existence through trouble or breaking the law now too. That’s what the word systemic results in.
You just don’t fucking get it buddy, you and your family grew up surrounded by opportunity, which thankfully they took advantage of, not closed doors.
Congrats to your family. I’m sure taiwan was very kind to... other Taiwanese lol. My ex’s family went through the exact same program as you, left Taiwan with a business idea to go to Brazil for a cup of tea and then to Canada at the PERFECT time as with all boomers to take advantage of post 20% interest rate real estate prices to build up millions in future assets. Perfect timing for a Perfect situation! You know what you have in common with all the black people that actually make it from the hood? Luck and timing. Should you have to be lucky and have perfect timing to succeed? Hmmm?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hehe
Ok, I said I wasn't going to reply anymore to this thread, but from the latest posts here, I thought I'd make another post because by keeping silence, I feel that I'm condoning the development and it's not what I think it's right for us and our kids in the future...........snip, snip, snip
Thanked you for your family's story and some of your points. I like to think I keep an open mind. See all sides of the coin. I tend not to follow the crowd and try to listen to those who say stuff against the current..........
thank you for your contribution. Some people become blind and get caught up in the swell.............
anyway, carry on carrying on.
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Quote:
"there but for the grace of god go I"
Quote:
Youth is, indeed, wasted on the young.
YODO = You Only Die Once.
Dirty look from MG1 can melt steel beams.
"There must be dissonance before resolution - MG1" a musical reference.
Don’t really understand the uproar over the native chief in Alberta that got taken down. Yea maybe the punch to the head was excessive but what can a cop do
You’re being served a ticket, you seem like your drunk/intoxicated. You refuse a legitimate ticket because you’re driving around with expired insurance, and then you get out of your vehicle and storm at the cops like you’re going to attack them?
Then once you’re tackled and arrested you’re still fighting back?
But yea, that only happened because he was a native guy :/
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Dank memes cant melt steel beams
Yah, whether you agree with Hehe's point of view or not, he does have a point that SOME people with determination, hard work, and some luck make it out of the poverty cycle. And it is also true that for many, determination, hard work won't because they hit bad luck resulting in some very frustrating and oppressive results. BOTH can be true in a complex world. How can you dispute this? It is empirically obvious. We see black mayors, chiefs of police, governors, even a president of the US, etc.
The 2nd thing that is worthy of consideration is that putting the situation all on external circumstances (systemic racism) isn't helpful and will perpetuate the very problem. This isn't to say that systemic racism isn't a huge societal problem, it is and something needs to be done about that but it isn't the magic bullet. Those who want to offer a reminder or a corrective to this whole movement is saying don't JUST play the race, victim card. Let's hear some voices of how we can empower, educate, inner city black children and youths and steer them away from a destructive lifestyle (drugs, gangs, etc.)
And lastly, I also think that the police who murdered George Floyd should get the consequences of the fullest extent of the law. (I feel like if I don't state that, some will automatically label you as a troll here). Having said this, if you think the history of a person doesn't affect how he is treated by a police, you're a keyboard SJW. If you get pulled over, you know why it takes the police officer so damn long to get to your car? He's checking your history. And if this is the 7th speeding offense of the year, you're going to be treated differently than if it was your 1st. To think that a police doesn't take the history of a person into consideration is pure stupidity. Remember what I said at the beginning of the paragraph ... I believe the officer used excessive force and should be punished but real life policing isn't writing out a paragraph on your computer in your pajamas at home. Shit happens in real life and you better be prepared if someone has a record of assault. Hell, even google has a profile of you and treats you by your history.
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Wow, whitev70r, you're not just another pretty face. Yes, we need to find positive and creative ways to address these issues.
Not all cops are evil. I know quite a few and their jobs just became that much harder. Just like nurses and care workers' jobs just got a whole lot harder because of this pandemic.
Anyway..............
__________________
Quote:
"there but for the grace of god go I"
Quote:
Youth is, indeed, wasted on the young.
YODO = You Only Die Once.
Dirty look from MG1 can melt steel beams.
"There must be dissonance before resolution - MG1" a musical reference.
Don’t really understand the uproar over the native chief in Alberta that got taken down. Yea maybe the punch to the head was excessive but what can a cop do
You’re being served a ticket, you seem like your drunk/intoxicated. You refuse a legitimate ticket because you’re driving around with expired insurance, and then you get out of your vehicle and storm at the cops like you’re going to attack them?
Then once you’re tackled and arrested you’re still fighting back?
But yea, that only happened because he was a native guy :/
it's okay, RCMP are all racists and so are all white people(/sarcasm). That's why this happened
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Wow, whitev70r, you're not just another pretty face. Yes, we need to find positive and creative ways to address these issues.
Not all cops are evil. I know quite a few and their jobs just became that much harder. Just like nurses and care workers' jobs just got a whole lot harder because of this pandemic.
Anyway..............
the only cops that are doing a good job are the ones who don't stick up for each other because of the expectations put upon them by cop culture. when your partner is doing something fucked up, you don't stick up for him, and when you see your colleagues trying to cover up for one another, you speak out and blow the whistle. if you can't do that then you're a crooked cop. there are a lot more crooked cops than ones who actually uphold the law for everyone evenly.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hondaracer
Don’t really understand the uproar over the native chief in Alberta that got taken down. Yea maybe the punch to the head was excessive but what can a cop do
You’re being served a ticket, you seem like your drunk/intoxicated. You refuse a legitimate ticket because you’re driving around with expired insurance, and then you get out of your vehicle and storm at the cops like you’re going to attack them?
Then once you’re tackled and arrested you’re still fighting back?
But yea, that only happened because he was a native guy :/
What really gets me is when the story first aired, the media left a lot of the details out. There was a time when news outlets reported the story as is and with no hidden agendas. I wouldn’t go as far as to use the term “fake news,” but holy shit, report the news, not make it. The media can no longer be trusted.
I have to spend time to research the whole story by piecing together bits from this or that. This is by no means new news (pun?) but it has gotten so bad I the last few years.
__________________
Quote:
"there but for the grace of god go I"
Quote:
Youth is, indeed, wasted on the young.
YODO = You Only Die Once.
Dirty look from MG1 can melt steel beams.
"There must be dissonance before resolution - MG1" a musical reference.
Hehe, your lack of understanding on this issue continues to baffle me, and you continue to make this about yourself.
It's fitting that "anonymous" letter is all over Trump Twitter, we've seen these same arguments "What about blacks killing each other in Chicago!", these are tired and boring arguments that are continued to parroted, do white people actually think the poverty and deaths in black communities are a concept that the black community is ignoring?
There is one black historian in the faculty at Berkeley:
So we're to argue an anonymous letter provided by a person who we don't even know is a professor, that is unwilling to attach their name to their written critique? This anonymous person cites ideas and statistics without providing any data.
He alleges that the disproportion of blacks in prison general to their population in the US, as a testament of the justice system against men writ-large?
Sort of reminds me of the pro-male arguments that pop up when there is discussion of sexual assault against women, pointing out the lack of attention to rape against men.
It's another case of whataboutism, meanwhile ignoring the underlying problem. I've raised numerous stats, I've raised numerous arguments that were not contested, yet there is an onus to debate an anonymous letter?
Hehe, let me break it down for you, because your argument is a common one that I hear from some of my Asian friends, some of them say the exact platitudes that you do, attempting to relate their personal experiences without having any relevant racial experience, or historical knowledge to the subject.
Lets be a real here, any honest Asian person in this thread can admit the racist sentiments within Asian communities towards blacks. Shit, my own close Asian friends talk about it all the time. My own Asian girlfriend at the time would tell me how her Grandma accepted me a little more "because I was a lighter black".
Have you ever paid thought to why blacks are the literal bottom of the ladder within every culture and race in the world, historically? Have you ever paid a thought to what type of mental trauma that creates to a race of people? If you are black, no matter the part of the world (even in many parts of Africa for that matter), you are at the very bottom of the proverbial pole.
This creates a culture of self-hatred, the lack of self-love, there is not a history of people in the world that have been widely abused, and used, like the black man. I've had this conversation with my father about this, there is a definitive issue of self-hatred within the black community. This has been caused by historical abuse, which has left a lasting PTSD of sorts.
Hehe, you've never lived in a society where as an Asian man, a bank would deny you a loan, simply based on your race? Let's be real here, and I'm not alleging that Asians do not experience racism in Western culture, but I am extremely confident that the Asian community does not experience the same level of racism, systemic abuse, and economic boundaries that the African-American community does.
That letter speaks about Nigerians, I can attest this myself, my family in Nigeria, and here, are highly educated. Nigerians are some of the highest producing immigrants that enter Western society. That is not a black thing, that is a cultural reason, as Nigerian norms within culture are much different than that of African-American culture.
Hehe, you never grew up in a community where a government has targeted your people, redlining your community, refusing you the ability to get a loan based on your zip code, disenfranchising your ability to vote (watch the recent election debacle in Georgia), or forcing the segregation of schools, siphoning your people and community to schools with little investment or economic opportunities.
The letter cites other racial backgrounds that have undergone hardships in the US, without taking into account that these hardships have all been temporary, and that those hardships have been quickly corrected in order to allow those communities to prosper.
How that can be compared to a race of people shipped to a continent on boats as slaves, and for hundreds of years have had to deal with a system made in design to disenfranchise them, to hold them back, makes absolute no sense to me.
Welfare, I had said I wouldn't engage with you any longer, but I have to respond to one point you made, I want to honestly ask you if you believe this:
"Why is it that western civilization seems to bare the brunt for slavery when nearly every single culture in history has engaged in the practice, ranging back from prerecorded time?"
Since when have Europeans not had to reconcile this issue? The only difference here is that the Europeans decided to abolish slavery within their societies much earlier than that of the Americans. Europe still has many issues, heck have you not seen the banana throwing, the monkey taunts to black football players in stadiums throughout Europe?
No one is giving Europe a pass, the difference here is that European countries do not carry the police-state complex that the US does, nor the level of violence by that of the police. Make no mistake, there is a definitive reckoning that is also going on in Europe right now, you're just not following it, as it does not fit your interests, clearly.
I have to say, it does get tiring arguing about this subject on a forum where we will clearly not change each other's minds on the subject. As I've said before, the internet is too anonymous, it's too easy to spew tired rhetoric, or incomplex arguments. I'll reiterate, I am totally open to having a rational discussion in person with anyone here who wants to have a dialog that carries a contrary opinion here, I'll leave that olive branch out here once again.
They attempted to make the whole ticket and whatnot trivial even though the whole situation was likely triggered automatically by police scanner picking up expired tags on the truck (can’t say this for certain but casino parking lots are probably good spots to pick up drunk drivers and whatnot as well)
No mention that the guy is driving around without insurance for who knows how long, and that he’s been asked repeatedly to comply until he eventually jumps out of the truck (also the clip was cut into peices so it seemed like it was an extended period of time from when the cops initially approached to when the guy jumps out) however the media edits it to look like it happened in a couple of minutes.
Pretty gross reporting on all these events these days. If we can’t get factual reporting it doesn’t do anyone any good. And I’d argue it’s actually harmful to the cause when it comes out after the fact that it was intact all on the guy in question and the police acted appropriately. However that side is -never- reported.
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Last edited by Hondaracer; 06-13-2020 at 11:47 AM.
So, Hehe, your whole family has constantly worked it’s collective ass off... but what if every time you went to go work your ass off somewhere someone called the cops on you or told you they don’t hire your kind or refused to promote you cuz of your ethnicity or paid you less than your peers because of your ethnicity? What if your parents grew up multiple generations in a place that also denigrated them?
You’d be sitting there with drunk ass drug addicted parents in a ghetto eking out an existence through trouble or breaking the law now too. That’s what the word systemic results in.
You just don’t fucking get it buddy, you and your family grew up surrounded by opportunity, which thankfully they took advantage of, not closed doors.
Congrats to your family. I’m sure taiwan was very kind to... other Taiwanese lol. My ex’s family went through the exact same program as you, left Taiwan with a business idea to go to Brazil for a cup of tea and then to Canada at the PERFECT time as with all boomers to take advantage of post 20% interest rate real estate prices to build up millions in future assets. Perfect timing for a Perfect situation! You know what you have in common with all the black people that actually make it from the hood? Luck and timing. Should you have to be lucky and have perfect timing to succeed? Hmmm?
Do you even listen to yourself?
Do you think that it has always been easy for us? That my parents' hard working life have always been perfect to catch the booms? And that luck has always been on our side when doing stuff?
If that was the case, my family didn't have to move out of Taiwan. We also don't need to move from country to country a la nomad style. How many of the BLM supporters have the courage to take that leap? They stayed because they CHOSE to. No one FORBID them of leaving. They CHOSE to stay.
The main difference my parents did have comparing to some of the BLM supporters is that THEY NEVER GAVE UP. They sucked it up and kept working around. If the area wasn't working for them. They moved. Never once they complained, at least not in my memory that everything worked AGAINST their plan. And they NEVER BLAMED it on anyone else for their misfortunate when thing worked AGAINST them.
It is THEIR DECISION to let those "discrimination" get to them. If this company is biased against black, if I were black, I'd be sure to get the fuck out of there.
I do read my post again prior posting... the big "Preview Post" right next to Submit? Yes... I use that. I meant every word that I typed.
Don't look for excuses. Your post reminds me of everything I can't agree with BLM movement. They list excuses after excuses. I can take that not everyone is lucky to be in that position to succeed. But if there's something my parents taught me, and I'm teaching my sons about is that before you make excuses for how things beyond your control are the excuse for your problem. Think DEEP about what you did to put yourself in that spot in the first place.
Hehe, your lack of understanding on this issue continues to baffle me, and you continue to make this about yourself.
It's fitting that "anonymous" letter is all over Trump Twitter, we've seen these same arguments "What about blacks killing each other in Chicago!", these are tired and boring arguments that are continued to parroted, do white people actually think the poverty and deaths in black communities are a concept that the black community is ignoring?
There is one black historian in the faculty at Berkeley:
So we're to argue an anonymous letter provided by a person who we don't even know is a professor, that is unwilling to attach their name to their written critique? This anonymous person cites ideas and statistics without providing any data.
He alleges that the disproportion of blacks in prison general to their population in the US, as a testament of the justice system against men writ-large?
Sort of reminds me of the pro-male arguments that pop up when there is discussion of sexual assault against women, pointing out the lack of attention to rape against men.
It's another case of whataboutism, meanwhile ignoring the underlying problem. I've raised numerous stats, I've raised numerous arguments that were not contested, yet there is an onus to debate an anonymous letter?
Hehe, let me break it down for you, because your argument is a common one that I hear from some of my Asian friends, some of them say the exact platitudes that you do, attempting to relate their personal experiences without having any relevant racial experience, or historical knowledge to the subject.
Lets be a real here, any honest Asian person in this thread can admit the racist sentiments within Asian communities towards blacks. Shit, my own close Asian friends talk about it all the time. My own Asian girlfriend at the time would tell me how her Grandma accepted me a little more "because I was a lighter black".
Have you ever paid thought to why blacks are the literal bottom of the ladder within every culture and race in the world, historically? Have you ever paid a thought to what type of mental trauma that creates to a race of people? If you are black, no matter the part of the world (even in many parts of Africa for that matter), you are at the very bottom of the proverbial pole.
This creates a culture of self-hatred, the lack of self-love, there is not a history of people in the world that have been widely abused, and used, like the black man. I've had this conversation with my father about this, there is a definitive issue of self-hatred within the black community. This has been caused by historical abuse, which has left a lasting PTSD of sorts.
Hehe, you've never lived in a society where as an Asian man, a bank would deny you a loan, simply based on your race? Let's be real here, and I'm not alleging that Asians do not experience racism in Western culture, but I am extremely confident that the Asian community does not experience the same level of racism, systemic abuse, and economic boundaries that the African-American community does.
That letter speaks about Nigerians, I can attest this myself, my family in Nigeria, and here, are highly educated. Nigerians are some of the highest producing immigrants that enter Western society. That is not a black thing, that is a cultural reason, as Nigerian norms within culture are much different than that of African-American culture.
Hehe, you never grew up in a community where a government has targeted your people, redlining your community, refusing you the ability to get a loan based on your zip code, disenfranchising your ability to vote (watch the recent election debacle in Georgia), or forcing the segregation of schools, siphoning your people and community to schools with little investment or economic opportunities.
The letter cites other racial backgrounds that have undergone hardships in the US, without taking into account that these hardships have all been temporary, and that those hardships have been quickly corrected in order to allow those communities to prosper.
How that can be compared to a race of people shipped to a continent on boats as slaves, and for hundreds of years have had to deal with a system made in design to disenfranchise them, to hold them back, makes absolute no sense to me.
My parents never took a loan from bank once they made it out of Taiwan. They could NEVER obtain anything. That did NOT stop them from working their ways around.
They had to literally beg to borrow money from F&F and worked 16hrs a day to make sure they had means to repay those loans.
I get what you are getting from. But I NEVER grew up in a NORMAL environment (by Canadian standard)
When we were in South America, racial slurs and ridicule were the normal things in day-to-day life. That NEVER stopped me from fighting back. I just went on and proved them wrong.
By saying that "you might had it easy" or "you were lucky" don't disguise the fact that many of BLM supporters are simply LOOKING FOR EXCUSES for their miseries. I'm sorry... I have at least 3 black skin friends that I can think of right on top of my head that NEVER LOOKED for EXCUSES. And they are successful in their own rights. I can also think of at least 2 white skin friends who complain all day and their life is in misery by my own standard.
What I want to say is... don't blame this on the skin you have. Blame it on yourself to not ACTIVELY WORK AROUND it. Yes... we shouldn't have to... but that's life. I and my family had that coming the entire way in our life. We ALWAYS found a way around it. And we aren't special any way... we are just normal joes that REFUSE to take it as given.
I apologize for being lazy and quoting from these scholarly articles and dissertations of reputable Universities but it's important to look at documented information rather than self-experience. These statistics presented are for you to critically think as to WHY there are such big discrepancies when it comes to race...not to "prove" that they're incompetent people. Unless that's how you want to interpret it.
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Differences in our society are bound to happen. And when it does, you don't simply ignore other voices and stick only to your idea. We need to EMBRACE all the different opinions and find a middle ground that would move our society as a WHOLE better.
Yes.
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They are blaming all the problems that African American are facing on racial inequality. That includes, but not limited to, education, income, poverty, crime rate... so on. They go on as saying the effect of slavery, over a century after, still account for most, if not all, of it.
I really want to ask... WHAT THE FUCK do they come up with this?! Like seriously.
Income
The median net worth of White households in the U.S. in 2014 was $144,200 VS $11,200 for Black Americans. In 1983, measured in 2014 dollars, Black households had a median net worth of $12,200 VS White households of $98,700.28.
A report that followed 1,700 working-age families over the course of 25 years showed this:
median net worth of the White families examined was $90,851 compared to $5,781 for Black families. By 2009 the White families’ net worth had increased to $265,000, while the Black families’ net worth had increased to only $28,500. The Black families increased their wealth almost 5X while White families 3X...but the end result?
This isn't an indication that racism has gotten worse over 30 years, but this highlights the economical disadvantage that has been going on for decades...and whatever efforts to correct this...hasn't been working.
Education
25% of Blacks aged 25+ hold at least a bachelor's degree VS 36% of Whites.
Income
The median adjusted household income in 2014 dollars
for Whites was $71,300 VS Black Americans was $43,300.
Black patients being treated for physical or mental illness are, depending on the illness, less likely or FAR less likely than white patients to get standard and adequate care.
Employment
2015 unemployment rate for Blacks was 10.3% VS Whites 4.5%. (Those incarcerated were excluded from statistics as "unemployed")
Homeownership / Car ownership
2015 - 72% of White households owned their home VS 43% of Black households.
"Lenders targeted Black Americans for subprime mortgages,
which are riskier loans with fluctuating interest rates and higher fees; 1 in 3 Black American households earning over $200,000 were sold subprime loans, which was twice the national average. When the housing bubble burst and home values began to drop, those with subprime loans were often forced into foreclosure"
2005 report by New Jersey Citizen Action states that Black and Latino car buyers were quoted substantially higher finance rates WITH a greater undisclosed markup than comparable white car buyers. Financing markup charges for black buyers averaged 60-70% higher than white buyers.
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We are born different. And that is the BEAUTY of humankind. We embrace and encourage diversity and many of the best and most successful stories in human history came out from being DIFFERENT.
Now, it has its downsides... some are born into a more "lucky" families than others. However, it is not an EXCUSE for the failure of many... whether you are black, white, yellow, brown or whatever skin/race/ethnicity you are.
Taking into consideration what was mentioned above...it seems like being an African American was a big downside in society, would you agree? When you assume their reasons for failure were excuses, you're not demonstrating your understanding of Black history. What were some excuses for the folks that lynched Black men in recent history?
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I was born in a family that I consider normal to poor, at least for the majority of times of my childhood. We had very little luxury... my entire family slept on a single "bed", if we could even call a big platform made out of 2x4s and plywood with no mattress a bed and I had to pretty much deal everything on my own with my brother as my parents were too busy working their ass off. And they weren't born rich either. My dad barely finished elementary school before he left the city he was born for work and my mom was more or less the same except she did another year in what we consider here grade 7.
This is a very powerful story and is very commendable of you and your family at the same time. Thank you for sharing this. As people, I believe it's important to share and value each individuals' experiences as it shapes them to who they are.
Here's another story I'd like to share of a 25-year old male:
Spoiler!
"He was at a crossroads, his life stretching out before him, his troubles largely behind him. He had enrolled at South Georgia Technical College, preparing to become an electrician, just like his uncles. But first, he decided, he would take a break. College could wait until the fall.
To help keep his head clear, he ran, just about every day. Off he’d go, out of the doors of his mother’s house, down the long street toward Fancy Bluff Road. Then would come the right turn onto the two-lane road lined by oak trees draped with Spanish moss.
About a mile and a half into his usual route, Ahmaud Arbery would cross the four lanes of Jekyll Island Causeway into the subdivision of Satilla Shores.
On Feb. 23, Arbery was shot to death by a father and son who told police they grabbed guns and pursued him in a pickup truck because they believed he was responsible for break-ins in their neighborhood — a black man, killed by two white men."
I can't begin to imagine what went through Ahmaud's mind during his last moments. How do you think his community and family interpret America after losing their son? Imagine your child being shot while going for a run for his skin colour.
I can run freely in most communities within greater Vancouver and won't need to fear for shit like this. Fighting for a house over a head VS fighting for your last breath. Therefore, I believe (with LOTS of bias) that Vancouver is such a safe city for a middle-class Chinese male like me...but is this entirely true for every demographic?
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parents finally bought us the SNES that I and my brother had wanted it for so long (we wanted something to play with, seeing that all our classmates had NES or SNES after it came out) and that's ONLY AFTER me and my brother did great in our scheduled tests... 3 times in a role for the entire school year.
How did you feel when all your classmates had it when it came out? I think you can empathize with those that were in your position. But you can't for folks that never have the privilege to have bought their children a console.
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I and my brother wouldn't get any of that and they'd donate most of their wealth away except some portion for education for future generations.
That's something that not many families can be proud to support.
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So I worked my ass off. I consider myself lucky as I'm quite clever. I never had an issue with studying and had always been the very top of class for as long as I can remember. But that's because AGAIN... I WORKED MY ASS OFF. In Asia, we'd get our textbooks the first day of class. I'd finish reading EVERY ONE OF THEM by the weekend and then it's just NEVERENDING PRACTICE from there on.
Do you have to be considered lucky to be clever, have both mom and dad under the same roof, and given the support and space to study in order to become top of your class? What are some reasons you can come up with for students that don't seem to get good grades or "care" about education?
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Again, had to work our ass off... to learn a new language, to fit into a new society and South America, in the different countries we have been aren't exactly the most friendly with Asian faces and we had been robbed/tortured at gunpoint by people breaking into our place in the middle of the night and taking everything.
You can understand how terrifying it is, thanks for sharing. It's unfortunate but many people wouldn't receive an experience like that well and end up developing many forms of trauma. They begin losing faith on authoritative figures.
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We are all very normal folks... each with our own gift that we made SURE to make the most out of it.
It's difficult when you're using yourself as the baseline norm for folks...that quite frankly...aren't in your position in life, it makes it more difficult for you to see the flaws in society. Your mentality of "work hard work hard work hard" does have something to do with the system you're living in.
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Now... with all that said... on WHAT GROUND do many people in the BLM movement say that SYSTEMATIC RACIAL DISCRIMINATION MADE IT IMPOSSBLE TO SUCCEED in their life?
Nobody said it was impossible. After reading your family story, it seems to me that your understanding of systematic racial discrimination doesn't actually align with the experiences of Black folks in NORTH AMERICA. I urge you to disassociate your personal experience before trying to understand someone else's history.
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George Floyd is not an innocent man... he had MANY MANY problems with the law before. It's a tragedy what happened to him, but it was NOT the CAUSE of what happened to his life before that day. He CHOSE to have a life like that.
He didn't choose to have a life like that. America doesn't give much opportunity but to keep black folks in this "life" you speak about.
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BLM wants to argue that society never gave him the chance because he is black. That's a fucking insult to millions of black people who work their butt off for a chance to succeed in their life, which many of them did.
Why would this be insulting? There could be millions of black people who work their butt off for a chance to succeed, but do they look down towards their own people? Lebron James is a huge advocate for his OWN people. He built a damn school for his people because AMERICA doesn't understand his people. The only insult here is you looking down on those that weren't GIVEN the chance.
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Tl;dr
We want to eliminate any barriers/stereotyping/prejudice made to people base on their ethnicity/social/race. We do our best for people to meet the basic bar to have a normal decent life and pave ways for them to GROW from that bar onward.
I agree. Isn't a big part of this movement to eliminate what you stated? How else should we go about this if you don't think what's happening now is most impactful?
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Lowering/eliminating the bar so that everyone can easily meet it just push us lower and lower each time. We as a society look to GROW... to BE BETTER. Not to always AIM for the lowest possible target.
Those that are under this "bar" are at a disadvantage...don't you think? If we MET folks at where they are, then are we not building them up from as opposed to leaving them behind? What is this "lowest" you speak of? When you've got tiers for people in society, you're part of the problem. It certainly is easy to say your statement when you're CURRENTLY above the said bar.
I truly believe that you have the right intentions and the heart for racial inequality as you concluded SO WELL in your tldr. But I urge you to try and understand the PROCESS it takes in order to get to what YOU believe America should be. It's not as clear cut as you make it to be, but the steps taken now, are the steps necessary for this brighter future you and I hope to see before our lifetime.
There are so many cognitive biases going on with a lot of these replies...this is probably one of the biggest explanations as to why reading the replies on Revscene is such a headache...let alone replying to one, only to have the person reword what they're saying 5 different ways. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_biases
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