[Amuse]

Danielle Dyer (@buenonote) Tweeted:
Wow David Lam park is packed. @CTVVancouver @GlobalBC @steeletalk https://t.co/69HqPYxbGu https://twitter.com/buenonote/status/1251666784719040512?s=20

:heckno:
Not one mask in view and since they are friends, they have to sit within 1 foot of eachother!

[quasi]

Danielle Dyer (@buenonote) Tweeted:
Wow David Lam park is packed. @CTVVancouver @GlobalBC @steeletalk https://t.co/69HqPYxbGu https://twitter.com/buenonote/status/1251666784719040512?s=20

:heckno:

What in the fucking fuck!

Seriously, I'm sitting here in my house going on my 5th week other than occasionally walking my dogs and leaving for an hour once every 7-10 days to get groceries and these cocksuckers are out like zero fucks given?

Honestly, not even sure why I'm bothering isn't going to make an ounce of difference with all these idiots........

[sonick]

What in the fucking fuck!

Seriously, I'm sitting here in my house going on my 5th week other than occasionally walking my dogs and leaving for an hour once every 7-10 days to get groceries and these cocksuckers are out like zero fucks given?

Honestly, not even sure why I'm bothering isn't going to make an ounce of difference with all these idiots........

Same here, very frustrating.

Here it is my wife and I have been spend so much time planning shopping lists, routes, and protective gear to avoid exposure and reduce the number of shopping trips, yet these motherfuckers giving no shits.

[GLOW]

Thx for the info, LD is walking distance for me so I might give it a shot $16 seems like a good price too!

I was going to post this in the f'd up shit that makes you laugh but it's related since the tweet about david lam

:ifyouknow: Kappa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7RQ1ZYvCtg&t=1s

[SSM_DC5]

What in the fucking fuck!

Seriously, I'm sitting here in my house going on my 5th week other than occasionally walking my dogs and leaving for an hour once every 7-10 days to get groceries and these cocksuckers are out like zero fucks given?

Honestly, not even sure why I'm bothering isn't going to make an ounce of difference with all these idiots........

Same here, very frustrating.

Here it is my wife and I have been spend so much time planning shopping lists, routes, and protective gear to avoid exposure and reduce the number of shopping trips, yet these motherfuckers giving no shits.

You're doing it to avoid seeing okami and spoon.ek9 in the hospital, where you'll be slipped an few extra NSAIDs in your med cup and be fed methane gas rather than oxygen.

[Ch28]

https://i.redd.it/najg55pdtot41.jpg

[Slifer]

Pretty interesting video. Really makes you wonder..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZphK_CMUbKg

[1337]

What in the fucking fuck!

Seriously, I'm sitting here in my house going on my 5th week other than occasionally walking my dogs and leaving for an hour once every 7-10 days to get groceries and these cocksuckers are out like zero fucks given?

Honestly, not even sure why I'm bothering isn't going to make an ounce of difference with all these idiots........

We have too many entitled and irresponsible people who ruins it for everyone. Where are the tickets the city was supposed to be handing out?

[SkinnyPupp]

Pretty interesting video. Really makes you wonder..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZphK_CMUbKg
Makes me wonder why people listen to idiots instead of facts... Maybe idiots can only understand other idiots? :considered:

[Slifer]

^Hey retard, did you even bother watching the video? I'm guessing no.

[SkinnyPupp]

^Hey retard, did you even bother watching the video? I'm guessing no.
I admit I fast forwarded to where she started talking, and the first thing I heard was "which is on par with the flu" so I instantly stopped.

If she was using that as an example of what the lowest form of idiots on earth say about this virus, then please let me know and I'll go back and watch it.

Otherwise, don't waste peoples time with this crap, go hang out in CiC's thread, I heard he's back.

We already went through this phase before the virus broke out in North America. Some guy saying he's a pharmacist who thought he knew everything based on his own personal opinions. You should know better now that opinions don't mean anything. Just look at the facts, and go from there. Learn from that guy's lesson LUL

[Hondaracer]

Makes me wonder why people listen to idiots instead of facts... Maybe idiots can only understand other idiots? :considered:

I didn’t watch the whole video above but it’s not far fetched at all to believe these types of events are used to take away freedoms and enact laws and regulations that further restrict the freedoms of citizens and potentially add things like income tax etc that are never taken away after the fact when they are introduced as “emergency measures”

https://youtu.be/3zzs3KPC3-c

I see people say now isn’t the time for politics etc. I’d say it’s more important than ever.

Hopefully after all of this is over people realize arguing over fucking gender pronouns and shit like that isn’t important.

[Slifer]

^I suggest you rewatch the part on the video when she revealed a document written by the Rockerfeller foundation that essentially predicted everything that has happened up until now and it was written 10 years ago. Please don't tell me that is a coincidence. It could have been their plan all along..

[SkinnyPupp]

I didn’t watch the whole video above but it’s not far fetched at all to believe these types of events are used to take away freedoms and enact laws and regulations that further restrict the freedoms of citizens and potentially add things like income tax etc that are never taken away after the fact when they are introduced as “emergency measures”

https://youtu.be/3zzs3KPC3-c

I see people say now isn’t the time for politics etc. I’d say it’s more important than ever.

Hopefully after all of this is over people realize arguing over fucking gender pronouns and shit like that isn’t important.
Of course it's a common thing. Once the virus is taken care of (if that ever happens) we need to be careful that no rights are given up than necessary (for instance if it does NOT go away, we may need to change society in difficult ways)

But when someone says "on par with the flu" they get insta-banned from my mind LUL

Not using that to discredit the video, but if someone starts out with idiotic statements like that, they are not going to earn my attention for whatever else they have to say. Because more likely than not, it comes from a place of sheer ignorance and stupidity. Maybe she got to a good point eventually though.

Also if someone isn't blaming the "Rockerfellers" it's going to be some other group (usually Jewish) that the nutjobs love to use for their weird conspiracy theories.

IMO start a new thread for this kind of stuff, this thread should be saved for useful, factual information and news.

[Slifer]

^Not gonna bother arguing with idiots like you who can't even stop for a minute to think whether it's possible. The video is not intended for sheeps like you. Move along.. back into the barn

[SkinnyPupp]

The other thing they do is call people "sheep" EleGiggle

The video is not intended for sheeps like you.

You're right, it's more for sheeps like this

https://i.imgur.com/hDRcWkQ.png

[Slifer]

Yup, continue to make fun of people who doesn't share the same opinion as you. A very typical response from you. Anyone who doesn't agree with you are all idiots. You're the cancer of Revscene. Serious question, did you get bullied in highschool? Is that why you're acting this way? Please go see a shrink after the pandemic is over. You need help.

[SkinnyPupp]

I didn't even share my opinion :rukidding:

Quit attacking people in this thread. You already disrupted it for an entire page with whacky conspiracy theories. Let's just leave it at that.

[Slifer]

Lol funny, YOU'RE the one who instigated it..

[SkinnyPupp]

I admit I jumped to conclusions based on her calling this "on par with the flu" which only idiots believe. I'll say now that I don't think you're an idiot for simply sharing that video, without knowing your intentions of sharing it. You could have been making fun of it for all I knew.

Anyway, this thread isn't the place for it, so again, let's just move on from it.

[SkinnyPupp]

Let's get back to sharing facts, and how different countries are approaching this differently.

Sweden:

https://twitter.com/alfonslopeztena/status/1251647587318476801

Here's another anecdotal take on the situation in Japan

(read the thread)

https://twitter.com/motokorich/status/1252015812107554819

[hud 91gt]

Let's get back to sharing facts, and how different countries are approaching this differently.

Sweden:

https://twitter.com/alfonslopeztena/status/1251647587318476801

Here's another anecdotal take on the situation in Japan

(read the thread)

https://twitter.com/motokorich/status/1252015812107554819

I don’t think posting a screenshot of some random data which probably has more to do with total population then anything else is good critical thinking. I’m not saying Sweden is right or wrong, but keeping an eye on their data is a great way to keep a realistic view and keep your own confirmation bias at bay.

Here is what I believe to be the same chart with some random countries I picked off the list. It’s a bit nonsense. If you change the dates, it can be skewed to look dramatic or fairly mild. It just requires a bit of a critical eye. I think everyone needs to be doing that before they start running for the hills in fear or starting protesting at anti isolation rallies.

Interesting thing with the shot I posted is Sweden has about 1/4 the population as us Canadians... curious what the next couple weeks will show.

[MG1]

I tuned out as soon as I heard,

god bless......... at the end.

[SkinnyPupp]

I don’t think posting a screenshot of some random data which probably has more to do with total population then anything else is good critical thinking. I’m not saying Sweden is right or wrong, but keeping an eye on their data is a great way to keep a realistic view and keep your own confirmation bias at bay.

Here is what I believe to be the same chart with some random countries I picked off the list. It’s a bit nonsense. If you change the dates, it can be skewed to look dramatic or fairly mild. It just requires a bit of a critical eye. I think everyone needs to be doing that before they start running for the hills in fear or starting protesting at anti isolation rallies.

Interesting thing with the shot I posted is Sweden has about 1/4 the population as us Canadians... curious what the next couple weeks will show.
Sorry if it wasn't made clear enough in the tweet, but the intention of the chart is not "random countries" but rather comparing the nordic countries, with Korea added as the "best case scenario" of a country handling it. What you do with that data is up to you, but the point being made is that compared to other nordic countries, Sweden's govt took a different approach, not enforcing any sort of stay-home measures, no shut down of non-essential businesses, etc. Everything is just "suggested"

Of course if you compare it to Spain or USA or Italy, it's not going to look the same. But THAT would be comparing "random countries" rather than trying to make any kind of comparison. The only point of that would be to make a fallacious argument in order to discredit any other points being made, but I'm not sure why you'd want to do that... You literally said you came up with a "nonsense" chart... so what reason is there to even consider it?

If you actually wanted to argue against it, you might have brought up the Netherlands, which has WAY more deaths and has had strict social distancing measures in place since late March. Yes, I'll destroy my own post if I learn more info LUL Just saying, this is the way to do it, not logical fallacy. Maybe we can learn more instead? So if Sweden's relatively high rate of death can be explained through lack of strict controls, what explains Netherlands? Maybe late March was simply too late, and things are going to get even worse in Sweden eventually? They already have more deaths per million than USA

[twdm]

Been on a hiatus from this thread for a while to let things run a bit. Things turned out exactly as I predicted. Millions of jobs lost worldwide. Trillions of dollars wasted and trillions in GDP lost worldwide just to prevent potentially hundreds of thousands of mainly elderly deaths.

Do the math. We refuse to spend hundreds of thousands per patient on novel cancer treatments but we're willing to spend millions per patient and put millions into poverty to prevent deaths of people who are honestly probably going to die within the next 5 years.

There's a reason why most medical workers aren't good administrators. Every life is priceless to them, but in reality there is a price to every life.

So kudos to Sweden for not bowing to the fearmongerers pulling out their projections where everyone is going to be infected and 10% of the population is gonna die. Everyone knows social distancing saves lives. No shit, but at what cost.

Yes healthcare workers can be on their high horse telling people to isolate and do their part. That's cause their livelihood isn't on the line. They don't have to worry about putting food on the table, paying their mortgages etc. Sure they're putting their lives on the line, but don't firemen, policemen, search and rescue people do that too?

[JD¹³]

Another article detailing the difference between Canada and Australia's actions on controlling the outbreak. Yet more proof that our countries limp-dick leadership has handled this poorly and cost lives: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-canada-and-australia-a-tale-of-two-covid-19-responses

"Both countries discovered their first cases on January 25. By the end of February, Australia had 25 cases, Canada 20. Most of these cases were clustered in large metropolitan cities for both, and by March 25, each country had about 3,000 people who had tested positive."

"Then something changed dramatically. As of Friday afternoon, Australia has slightly more than 6,500 cases – Canada has more than 30,000. Over the last week, Australia added 383 new cases while Canada has added around 1,000 to its total every day. There have been about 66 coronavirus-related deaths in Australia, while Canada has lost nearly 1,200 people to the disease." (71 vs 1587 as of today)

"Few cases in Australia originated in China, since the former country moved quickly to ban travel from the latter. In fact, most importations arrived from Europe and the United States, with many, notably, originating on cruise ships. On March 15, two weeks before new cases of COVID-19 began to decline in Australia, all travellers arriving in the country were “required” to self-isolate for 14 days."

"In comparison, self-isolation for return travellers was only “advised” in Canada until March 25. That is the period when many Canadian families returned home from their March Break trips, as did many of the snowbirds who spend their winters in Florida. Perhaps because of these lax instructions, and the seamlessness of travel from the U.S., returning Canadians spread the virus throughout their communities. In Australia, community transmission has only accounted for about 10 per cent of COVID-19 cases; in Canada this rate is close to 75 per cent."

[SkinnyPupp]

Another article detailing the difference between Canada and Australia's actions on controlling the outbreak. Yet more proof that our countries limp-dick leadership has handled this poorly and cost lives: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-canada-and-australia-a-tale-of-two-covid-19-responses

"Both countries discovered their first cases on January 25. By the end of February, Australia had 25 cases, Canada 20. Most of these cases were clustered in large metropolitan cities for both, and by March 25, each country had about 3,000 people who had tested positive."

"Then something changed dramatically. As of Friday afternoon, Australia has slightly more than 6,500 cases – Canada has more than 30,000. Over the last week, Australia added 383 new cases while Canada has added around 1,000 to its total every day. There have been about 66 coronavirus-related deaths in Australia, while Canada has lost nearly 1,200 people to the disease." (71 vs 1587 as of today)

"Few cases in Australia originated in China, since the former country moved quickly to ban travel from the latter. In fact, most importations arrived from Europe and the United States, with many, notably, originating on cruise ships. On March 15, two weeks before new cases of COVID-19 began to decline in Australia, all travellers arriving in the country were “required” to self-isolate for 14 days."

"In comparison, self-isolation for return travellers was only “advised” in Canada until March 25. That is the period when many Canadian families returned home from their March Break trips, as did many of the snowbirds who spend their winters in Florida. Perhaps because of these lax instructions, and the seamlessness of travel from the U.S., returning Canadians spread the virus throughout their communities. In Australia, community transmission has only accounted for about 10 per cent of COVID-19 cases; in Canada this rate is close to 75 per cent."
You make a good point but take care not to fall into the same trap I did this morning with Sweden and Netherlands.

Most people would say that Singapore did a great job of dealing with the virus early on. They acted as quick as Taiwan and HK, had a lot of testing and trace everyone's movements. They closed their border to China, and then the rest of the world. In March people were talking about how they have "contained" the virus.

However they are currently having tons of new cases - 1400 today - and they are all community transmissions (since the border is closed). Meanwhile Hong Kong is around 2-4 new cases per day (while we wait to see if a third wave comes).

If you look deeper, you will see that most of these cases are taking place through the dormitories where low income foreign workers live (https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/we-will-look-after-you-ministry-assures-foreign-workers). Yeah, Singapore has a dark side not many people talk about... But I digress...

So there is a LOT more to why things happen than just straight up numbers. Sweden took a relaxed approach and they are paying the price, Netherlands got more strict a month ago, but it was too late, and they are being ravaged. None of this is as bad as Spain or Italy...

Another thing to consider is how much each country is testing. USA is testing by far the most out of any country that is being hit hard - 150K per day. Canada is nowhere near that, but they have still been testing about 3X as much as Australia has been. Typically 24K per day, compared to 8K. Normally this doesn't matter as much - obviously just count all the sick people right? But as we know, there are tons of asymptomatic people who get counted if there's more testing done that otherwise would just be told to stay home and quarantine, and are never counted.

On top of all this, the sources of this data varies country by country. Everyone does things a bit different. Some completely and arbitrarily lie.

So I think my main point is: There is little to be conclusive right now just by comparing one country to another. There's just not really enough data to do more than come up with a hypothesis. Things may lean one way, but with all these issues to consider (have we even considered climate? We still don't know), it's kind of hard to say any government could have made things significantly better by taking different actions.

Maybe Canada was "limp dick" or maybe they weren't, we won't really know for sure until we look back at everything in hindsight.

[hud 91gt]

Sorry if it wasn't made clear enough in the tweet, but the intention of the chart is not "random countries" but rather comparing the nordic countries, with Korea added as the "best case scenario" of a country handling it. What you do with that data is up to you, but the point being made is that compared to other nordic countries, Sweden's govt took a different approach, not enforcing any sort of stay-home measures, no shut down of non-essential businesses, etc. Everything is just "suggested"

Of course if you compare it to Spain or USA or Italy, it's not going to look the same. But THAT would be comparing "random countries" rather than trying to make any kind of comparison. The only point of that would be to make a fallacious argument in order to discredit any other points being made, but I'm not sure why you'd want to do that... You literally said you came up with a "nonsense" chart... so what reason is there to even consider it?

If you actually wanted to argue against it, you might have brought up the Netherlands, which has WAY more deaths and has had strict social distancing measures in place since late March. Yes, I'll destroy my own post if I learn more info LUL Just saying, this is the way to do it, not logical fallacy. Maybe we can learn more instead? So if Sweden's relatively high rate of death can be explained through lack of strict controls, what explains Netherlands? Maybe late March was simply too late, and things are going to get even worse in Sweden eventually? They already have more deaths per million than USA
If I had looked at the chart for more the 6.5 seconds I probably would have figure that out.... lol

But... here’s some stats I just stole using deaths per 1m of a population. Missing link here is first confirmed case, but since the countries are close together.... let’s make ASs-U-me.

Netherlands: 219
Poland: 10
Norway: 31
Sweden: 156
Iceland: 26
Finland: 18


Then you think these countries are about the size of an American state. Where the entire country had initially similar policies, and things like NY pop up.... then a state next door with next to nothing. I don’t even know what I’m trying to say but there doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason.

JD brought up Australia. Didn’t summer just end in a super hot and dry climate? Could that be part of the statistics?


Deaths by Population density would be a great one to look at too.

[twitchyzero]

We refuse to spend hundreds of thousands per patient on novel cancer treatments but we're willing to spend millions per patient and put millions into poverty to prevent deaths of people who are honestly probably going to die within the next 5 years.


the only part of your post that isn't complete horseshit

i have to agree that this pandemic taught us humanity as a collective can at least address major issues seriously like homelessness and pollution if we pull our bootstraps up

sounds like you went into healthcare for the wrong reasons if you can still sleep at night letting nature 'run its course' knowing 750 billion will be dying in the next few years just because 'they old'

[hud 91gt]

^there is idealistic views and then there is realistic views. What’s right?

TWDM May have a harsh view. But what if we go into a serious depression due to these actions? Have you had many conversations with people who have been through the 1930’s? Stories of properties traded for stale bread, bricks of gold for bread? Bad things can come from our actions. It’s about weighing the pros and cons.

[MG1]

It's not just the old who are dying.

I hope you, twdm, get the virus and then we'll see if your point of view stands. BTW, you have parents?

I feel sorry for you...................... god bless.


Under these circumstances, we all deal with it in our own way. Not bringing out the best in us.

[Ch28]

sounds like you went into healthcare for the wrong reasons if you can still sleep at night letting nature 'run its course' knowing 750 billion will be dying in the next few years just because 'they old'

We'd be absolutely fucked if the entire earth's population was 750 billion people.

I can see where twdm is coming from. Whether you agree or not with his/her views is entirely up to you, but it doesn't make it any less valid.

"We refuse to spend hundreds of thousands per patient on novel cancer treatments but we're willing to spend millions per patient and put millions into poverty to prevent deaths of people who are honestly probably going to die within the next 5 years."

He's not wrong with that statement. It becomes one of those "for the greater good" situations.

[hud 91gt]

Are you talking about me? I’m high risk (pneumonia a couple times), my mom is about as high as it gets. I have all my grandparents still (lucky right?). I have more to lose then anyone. Don’t give me that BS, please.


Edit: ... I apologize MG1 I missed the comma. I misread. I saw “you, TWDM,” as in you and TWDM. Defensive? Lol. Sorry.

[JD¹³]

Skinny and hud - both raise valid points.

With all that in mind I think the telling data is that regardless of climate Canada and Australia had their first cases on the same day, and two full months later remained similar in 'official' numbers of infected. The difference swings in the incubation period after Australia took the path of required isolation vice Canada's zero enforcement suggestions of doing so. The fact that our numbers have exploded since and that there's an approx 65% difference between cases from community transmission tells that the honour approach failed miserably.

People in general are stupid. People are sheep. People in this very thread have demonstrated that. Leadership is in place to serve but also protect the herd. I feel that the governments both provincially and federally failed to do so, with more weight on the Feds because provinces kind of follow their lead. The Fed had direct military intelligence on the severity of this outbreak and they called it racist and offensive to take the action they needed to. The government appointed CPHO told us for months that "risk of infection is low" when they knew damn well that wasn't true then spent $30 million on ads showing the same woman telling us to take it seriously and protect ourselves :blueguy:

I'd call it an unprecedented event but it's really not. Natural and weaponized biological threats have been modeled for decades. SARS hit Toronto 'recently' and did measurable damage to the national economy, luckily only a small number of people died. Canada had early credible intelligence that this was a serious outbreak and they ignored it. People and government make mistakes, to err is human. But the government really failed us here.

[MG1]

Are you talking about me? I’m high risk (pneumonia a couple times), my mom is about as high as it gets. I have all my grandparents still (lucky right?). I have more to lose then anyone. Don’t give me that BS, please.

Nope.............wasn't talking about you. I thought I was pretty clear who I was addressing.

Anyway, people have a right to whatever opinion they have.

[!LittleDragon]

sounds like you went into healthcare for the wrong reasons if you can still sleep at night letting nature 'run its course' knowing 750 billion will be dying in the next few years just because 'they old'

I see where he's coming from. When tasked with making big decisions, you can't let emotions cloud your judgement. Deciding who gets to live isn't a choice healthcare workers normally have to make.

[mikemhg]

The other thing they do is call people "sheep" EleGiggle



You're right, it's more for sheeps like this

https://i.imgur.com/hDRcWkQ.png

I'm going to use this photo as my Zoom virtual background on my next company team meeting :lol

[Hondaracer]

People keep saying “it’s not just old people getting it”

That’s true, but the VAST majority of serious cases and fatalities are older people with underlying health issues.

You don’t have to look any further than B.C., where what, 98% of deaths are the elderly in nursing homes?

If this was to happen again in the next 10 years you pretty much have to just let it run It’s course. There’s no way in hell the global economy could face another shutdown.

[highfive]

Not defending limp dick jt but Canada is bordered with USA and Australia is on its own.

Plus we have the issues of snowbirds returning home from the USA. That’s the biggest risk i see upcoming.

[Hondaracer]

Bordering the US doesn’t effect planes flying here from China.

[Teriyaki]

https://www.theverge.com/2020/4/20/21227995/sewage-wastewater-poop-coronavirus-survellience-biobot

Read this about testing sewer systems for concentration of the virus and thought its quite an interesting approach. If accurate, could give you a much clearer idea of where the concentrations are without mass individual testing. Wonder if any communities in Canada are doing this.

[JD¹³]

Not defending limp dick jt but Canada is bordered with USA and Australia is on its own.

Plus we have the issues of snowbirds returning home from the USA. That’s the biggest risk i see upcoming.
Yeah, we were more exposed, at higher risk, and did less FailFish

[MG1]

Before any more time passes, I would like to apologize for what I said earlier to twdm. I crossed the line. I would never wish a fate like that to anyone. Attacking another member for what they post on RS is never a cool thing to do. I've really tried not to do that anymore.

In troubled times like this, people lose all perspective. Stress, frustration, etc. Still not an excuse. We all need to remind ourselves to be kind to one another - even to strangers. I temporarily lost it and I truly apologize.

I read a few posts, I believe in this thread, made by a member who attacked someone who's been on this forum for quite some time. Things like "You're a retard, and, You started it first, etc." I thought to myself, is this what grown ups do? Maybe I need to take time away from RS. Certainly remove myself from this thread. Things are going to get much, much worse. The ugly side of everyone is coming out.

Thank goodness for level headed people like westopher and the like. I've never seen him lose it.


Anyway, keep on keeping on. There's always chat and freebies thread, hee hee.

[Teriyaki]

Before any more time passes, I would like to apologize for what I said earlier to twdm. I crossed the line. I would never wish a fate like that to anyone. Attacking another member for what they post on RS is never a cool thing to do. I've really tried not to do that anymore.

In troubled times like this, people lose all perspective. Stress, frustration, etc. Still not an excuse. We all need to remind ourselves to be kind to one another - even to strangers. I temporarily lost it and I truly apologize.

I read a few posts, I believe in this thread, made by a member who attacked someone who's been on this forum for quite some time. Things like "You're a retard, and, You started it first, etc." I thought to myself, is this what grown ups do? Maybe I need to take time away from RS. Certainly remove myself from this thread. Things are going to get much, much worse. The ugly side of everyone is coming out.

Thank goodness for level headed people like westopher and the like. I've never seen him lose it.


Anyway, keep on keeping on. There's always chat and freebies thread, hee hee.

RS is one of a few places I follow quite closely for discussions (not just Covid-related). Good on ya for being able to reflect and recognize previous transgressions, so few people can do this, and even fewer recognize it online. I just wanted to say that RS as a whole, is pretty level-headed and one of the places I like to go for more sane discussion.

Other platforms like Reddit, Twitter, and FB are just a cesspool of either literal trolls, complete braindead twats, conspiracy theorists, and just overall complete garbage it makes my blood boil.

[Hondaracer]

Yeah, we were more exposed, at higher risk, and did less FailFish

That is literally the liberal motto.

[68style]

That is literally the liberal motto.

I wouldn’t say that, I consider myself to be pretty liberal minded and my first thought when this came out was that the only solution was to completely isolate.

Letting all those flights come in quarantine-free from Iran was a massive mistake.

[westopher]

Thank goodness for level headed people like westopher and the like. I've never seen him lose it.


Thank you MG1. I don't think I'm levelheaded.:considered:
I do at least try to articulate my angle and partake in discussion instead of just failing people and insulting them though. Although there are lots of people I disagree with in here, most of them are still people I respect, and would probably actually like in person if they'd shut the fuck up about politics for a little bit.

[twitchyzero]

We'd be absolutely fucked if the entire earth's population was 750 billion people.

I can see where twdm is coming from. Whether you agree or not with his/her views is entirely up to you, but it doesn't make it any less valid.

"We refuse to spend hundreds of thousands per patient on novel cancer treatments but we're willing to spend millions per patient and put millions into poverty to prevent deaths of people who are honestly probably going to die within the next 5 years."

He's not wrong with that statement. It becomes one of those "for the greater good" situations.

so if 80-90% of the people born before 1965 drops dead in the coming months, it's all good?

we FINALLY have governments trying to work collectively and then out comes the 'stop fearmongering' voices, from someone who's directly involved in medical care no less? that's truly the scary part...hope he tells us where he works so I can advise friends in HK not to visit there in case they need pharmacy care

yes there's still so much work to be done to minimize casualities from climate change, genocides, poverty but there hasn't been an issue that's this widespread challenging our human race in 100 years. You look at famines, natural disasters and they're mostly localized. Even world wars/depression wasn't felt in every last household. A pandemic this wide affects just about everyone.

[SkinnyPupp]

Do we really have to go over why it's so wrong to say "it's just old people getting it" AGAIN? I thought we'd learned but I guess not. If you say this or "it's just like the flu" just stop please.

Anyway here's an interesting study on the three strains of the virus (https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2020/04/07/2004999117) that are spreading around... It's a bit hard to follow at least for me first thing in the morning, but interesting info nonetheless

https://i.imgur.com/yOyWuuT.png

In another case, a man from Ontario had traveled from Wuhan in central China to Guangdong in southern China and then returned to Canada, where he fell ill and was conclusively diagnosed with coronavirus disease 2019 on 27 January 2020. In the phylogenetic network, his virus genome branches from a reconstructed ancestral node, with derived virus variants in Foshan and Shenzhen (both in Guangdong province), in agreement with his travel history. His virus genome now coexists with those of other infected North Americans (one Canadian and two Californians) who evidently share a common viral genealogy. The case of the single Mexican viral genome in the network is a documented infection diagnosed on 28 February 2020 in a Mexican traveler to Italy. Not only does the network confirm the Italian origin of the Mexican virus, but it also implies that this Italian virus derives from the first documented German infection on 27 January 2020 in an employee working for the Webasto company in Munich, who, in turn, had contracted the infection from a Chinese colleague in Shanghai who had received a visit by her parents from Wuhan. This viral journey from Wuhan to Mexico, lasting a month, is documented by 10 mutations in the phylogenetic network.

[underscore]

TIL being 45+ is now "old"

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/

AGE Share of deaths
0 - 17 years old 0.04%
18 - 44 years old 4.5%
45 - 64 years old 23.1%
65 - 74 years old 24.6%
75+ years old 47.7%

[SkinnyPupp]

Something to keep in mind when you see coverage of the nutjob protesters

https://twitter.com/JoshuaPotash/status/1252303895591780352

There's lots of "gaslighting" going on (that's a new term for me) attempting to make the "movement" look bigger than it is. The question is, who stands to gain from it? If we can answer that, we may know where it's coming from.

Oddly, a lot of the campaign being pushed is done by a single entity in Florida, registering domains for every single state, and starting Facebook groups for all of them. Someone on Reddit figured this out after some of the domains were registered without anonymous enabled. Appears to be people related to a gun lobby group.

So who is behind this group? :considered:

If you want to get into conspiracy theories, here's a potentially legitimate one to look into. Instead of blaming Bill Gates and "the rockerfellers" for everything Kappa

[welfare]

Not defending limp dick jt but Canada is bordered with USA and Australia is on its own.

Plus we have the issues of snowbirds returning home from the USA. That’s the biggest risk i see upcoming.

I don't really think the snowbirds theory holds much water though, considering the states that Canadians travel to for winter don't really have that high a rate of cases.

[welfare]

Been on a hiatus from this thread for a while to let things run a bit. Things turned out exactly as I predicted. Millions of jobs lost worldwide. Trillions of dollars wasted and trillions in GDP lost worldwide just to prevent potentially hundreds of thousands of mainly elderly deaths.

Do the math. We refuse to spend hundreds of thousands per patient on novel cancer treatments but we're willing to spend millions per patient and put millions into poverty to prevent deaths of people who are honestly probably going to die within the next 5 years.

There's a reason why most medical workers aren't good administrators. Every life is priceless to them, but in reality there is a price to every life.

So kudos to Sweden for not bowing to the fearmongerers pulling out their projections where everyone is going to be infected and 10% of the population is gonna die. Everyone knows social distancing saves lives. No shit, but at what cost.

Yes healthcare workers can be on their high horse telling people to isolate and do their part. That's cause their livelihood isn't on the line. They don't have to worry about putting food on the table, paying their mortgages etc. Sure they're putting their lives on the line, but don't firemen, policemen, search and rescue people do that too?

I think the main issue though is that there's still a lot that's unknown about this virus.
For instance, recent studies have shown that it's not just the lungs that may incur damage but also the heart and kidneys.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavirus-death-lungs-kidneys-heart-1.5536809
It's just hard to gauge what to do when you don't know exactly what you're up against.

I do agree with some of your points though. And I hope you don't go on another "hiatus".
I value the differing perspectives. Even if I don't agree with them entirely. I'm sure there are many others here who feel the same way.

[Hondaracer]

So 75% of the deaths are over the age of 65 so far...

Gotta day, still like those odds.

During the press conference today with trump Somone mentioned a study where they were theorizing when the virus arrived in the states and the amount of people who were asymptomatic could he incredibly high relative to those who show symptoms and the overall mortality rate. They said the number of deaths relative to the number actually infected could be the same if not lower than the seasonal flu mortality rate.

Again, just some study that was mentioned and they didn’t have much of a follow up but interesting nonetheless. I’ve looked for the study and haven’t found it yet but there are literally dozens of articles published by credible sources that say up to 80% of carriers could be asymptomatic.

[welfare]

That actually wouldn't be that big of a number when put into perspective.
There are nearly 800,000 confirmed cases in the US. Assuming that all of those cases are symptomatic, and that's 20% of all infected, the number of asymptomatic would be 4,000,000. Not much more than 1% of the population.

[westopher]

In Boston a sample of 378 homeless were tested, over half tested positive, and ZERO showed any symptoms.
This brings up a very interesting angle of potential ineffectiveness of the virus I. Some cases, inconclusive numbers, etc.
The other possibility is the tests were just all wrong.

[Teriyaki]

In Boston a sample of 378 homeless were tested, over half tested positive, and ZERO showed any symptoms.
This brings up a very interesting angle of potential ineffectiveness of the virus I. Some cases, inconclusive numbers, etc.
The other possibility is the tests were just all wrong.

Could it be possible that this subset of sampled people had stronger immune systems (atleast in relation to this particular strain of covid), stemming from the more harsh conditions they are subject to daily?

[320icar]

https://i.chzbgr.com/full/9473325312/h03A8C76E/10-months-asyi-preppers-finally-getting-chance-2020-liv-di-end-lockdown-rapp-wanna-go-hairdresser

[Hondaracer]

In Boston a sample of 378 homeless were tested, over half tested positive, and ZERO showed any symptoms.
This brings up a very interesting angle of potential ineffectiveness of the virus I. Some cases, inconclusive numbers, etc.
The other possibility is the tests were just all wrong.

There are similar tests documented of pregnant women in a study I can’t across

Of the 200 or so tested 20 tested positive but only 2 showed symptoms I believe

[SkinnyPupp]

I think the main issue though is that there's still a lot that's unknown about this virus.
For instance, recent studies have shown that it's not just the lungs that may incur damage but also the heart and kidneys.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/coronavirus-death-lungs-kidneys-heart-1.5536809
It's just hard to gauge what to do when you don't know exactly what you're up against.

I do agree with some of your points though. And I hope you don't go on another "hiatus".
I value the differing perspectives. Even if I don't agree with them entirely. I'm sure there are many others here who feel the same way.
The issue with the perspective of "see it wasn't that bad, we didn't need to do all this after all"

Is because it "wasn't/isn't that bad" BECAUSE of all the shit we did.

The choice was to partially shut down the economy and pay back for it long term, or literally millions die (and NOT just old people) possibly shutting down not just the economy, but society in general. We chose lives over money, with the knowledge that if we didn't, money would have been fucked even harder in the end.

If someone wants to have the opposite "perspective" fine, we can just disagree. Thankfully those people are a very small minority in Canada at least, and don't have the ability to do anything towards it that would harm the rest of us. SeemsGood

I can't go without saying that I find it rather mindblowing that a purported healthcare worker has this point of view, and literally says there's an inherent value of lives, inferring that some lives are worth more than others. Thank GOD this person has no actual power... Because holy crap.

[westopher]

Could it be possible that this subset of sampled people had stronger immune systems (atleast in relation to this particular strain of covid), stemming from the more harsh conditions they are subject to daily?
Absolutely possible in some of the instances, but for it to be across the board of a large sample size, is extremely unlikely, especially with the commonality of immunocompromised folks in the homeless community. I think it's impossible to really even have a stab at why, but it shows a serious need for some research into the situation.

[twitchyzero]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EWEUTPHX0AclFp4.jpg

-30usd/barrel...they ran outta storage!

but i filled up chevron 94 for buck 23 today :seriously:

[twdm]

I can't go without saying that I find it rather mindblowing that a purported healthcare worker has this point of view, and literally says there's an inherent value of lives, inferring that some lives are worth more than others. Thank GOD this person has no actual power... Because holy crap.
So if you were the prime minister of canada, you would think it's good policy to spend billions of tax payer dollars to prolong the life likely short life expectancy of 70-90 year olds.

Alright. Well that's billions that don't go to new hospitals and equipment, providing for the poor, etc. But hey decisions dont have any other collateral damage in skinnypupps mind. All decisions only have one outcome in his world.

Hey if you had the choice to either save a child or a 80 year old with end stage cancer, lets save the 80 year old cause all lives are equal. Why should the child with a bright future be worth any more than the 80 year old who is a year tops from the grave?

:rukidding:

[UnknownJinX]

I can't go without saying that I find it rather mindblowing that a purported healthcare worker has this point of view, and literally says there's an inherent value of lives, inferring that some lives are worth more than others. Thank GOD this person has no actual power... Because holy crap.

With limited resources, a choice has to be made, and so you have to put a value on a life in situations like this.

And policymakers do this all the time. You have to put value on things that don't have value.

[SkinnyPupp]

There is so much wrong with putting value on lives based on what identifies them, be it age, race, whatever. I can't even wrap my head around what would make someone think like that.

I'll just leave these stats here though, if you continue to think it's OK for certain groups of the population to die so you can make more money... well keep this in mind before you speak out. I'm not asking anyone to go back on "hiatus" but just gain some knowledge before you write.

It is so, so SO wrong to say what you are saying. :fulloffuck:

https://i.imgur.com/AG6162f.png

So remember, you're not just "letting all the old people die" (and people don't get into too much trouble for being ageist) but you're letting most black people die as well. I don't know what the stats are like in Canada, but it would likely lean towards poverty. Do we know how many First Nations communities have been hit by it?

This is making my head spin, I gotta go get lunch

[Hondaracer]

Lives have already had a value put on them previously. In fact it’s peoples jobs to do so.

Victims of 9/11 got a $200,000 cheque for their loved ones, and other similar acts, car accidents, negligence, etc. Gets a value assigned

It’s cold, it’s tough to accept. But honestly as time goes by it would be innapropriate to not assign value to one life over another. If it got to the point where it was so bad and you were giving ventilators to 75/80/90 year olds over a 25 year old, hell, even if they were a drug addict. That’s assanine.

And don’t ask me about my own loved ones who are older because my dad who recently just turned 60 went out of his way to say that if push came to shove he’d be willing to be offed if it meant a gain for society as he has always been of the mind that once you become a strain you aren’t much good other than sentimental value lol..

[Manic!]

Lives have already had a value put on them previously. In fact it’s peoples jobs to do so.

Victims of 9/11 got a $200,000 cheque for their loved ones, and other similar acts, car accidents, negligence, etc. Gets a value assigned

It’s cold, it’s tough to accept. But honestly as time goes by it would be innapropriate to not assign value to one life over another. If it got to the point where it was so bad and you were giving ventilators to 75/80/90 year olds over a 25 year old, hell, even if they were a drug addict. That’s assanine.

And don’t ask me about my own loved ones who are older because my dad who recently just turned 60 went out of his way to say that if push came to shove he’d be willing to be offed if it meant a gain for society as he has always been of the mind that once you become a strain you aren’t much good other than sentimental value lol..


It not just based on age it's based on wealth. Some rich people already own ventilators. If you have money age won't mater.

[welfare]

There is so much wrong with putting value on lives based on what identifies them, be it age, race, whatever. I can't even wrap my head around what would make someone think like that.

I'll just leave these stats here though, if you continue to think it's OK for certain groups of the population to die so you can make more money... well keep this in mind before you speak out. I'm not asking anyone to go back on "hiatus" but just gain some knowledge before you write.

It is so, so SO wrong to say what you are saying. :fulloffuck:

https://i.imgur.com/AG6162f.png

So remember, you're not just "letting all the old people die" (and people don't get into too much trouble for being ageist) but you're letting most black people die as well. I don't know what the stats are like in Canada, but it would likely lean towards poverty. Do we know how many First Nations communities have been hit by it?

This is making my head spin, I gotta go get lunch

Race isn't the lone factor contributing to those stats.
African Americans also suffer from diabetes at eight times the rate of whites. And cardiovascular disease at six times. While I'm sure there are several others, those are definitely factors that attribute to the fatality rate of this disease.

[SkinnyPupp]

Race isn't the lone factor contributing to those stats.
African Americans also suffer from diabetes at eight times the rate of whites. And cardiovascular disease at six times. While I'm sure there are several others, those are definitely factors that attribute to the fatality rate of this disease.
Yes. They are also more commonly poor on average. That's not really the point though. You're explaining the how.

[yray]

Doctors don't do aggressive treatments with pneumonia if you're over 60 in BC. I think our death rates are lower is due to our experiences with ARDS and large amount of cases of pneumonia with seniors. If you walk into Richmond ER, you will see atleast 7-8 beds with seniors on CPAPs.

Life and death in the ICU (http://www.nationalpost.com/m/life+death+paul+hospital+intensive+care+unit/7281348/story.html)

I've seen a drug addict, a well mannered and educated gentlemen, a homeless person and an autistic adult without the ability to talk in the ICU. Doctors and nurses don't care, they treat everyone with respect and the same amount of care. They will use all the tricks in their book and the resources available to try to bring the person back to being healthy.

[UnknownJinX]

There is so much wrong with putting value on lives based on what identifies them, be it age, race, whatever. I can't even wrap my head around what would make someone think like that.

I'll just leave these stats here though, if you continue to think it's OK for certain groups of the population to die so you can make more money... well keep this in mind before you speak out. I'm not asking anyone to go back on "hiatus" but just gain some knowledge before you write.

It is so, so SO wrong to say what you are saying. :fulloffuck:

https://i.imgur.com/AG6162f.png

So remember, you're not just "letting all the old people die" (and people don't get into too much trouble for being ageist) but you're letting most black people die as well. I don't know what the stats are like in Canada, but it would likely lean towards poverty. Do we know how many First Nations communities have been hit by it?

This is making my head spin, I gotta go get lunch

It's "wrong" but someone has to do it. Again, limited resources is a bitch. This is the basis why economy is a thing. How else do you make decisions with limited resources and saving everyone is impossible?

And how exactly is it wrong, really? Is the life of someone without a job less important? No, money isn't everything, but you do need it to sustain life. It's less apparent, but domestic violence and suicides can be more common. How do you value those lives? Or is it "out of sight, out of mind" for you?

I am not agreeing with open everything fully and just roll the dice. Rather, it's a compromise - you open back up a bit with protective measures so some people can get back to work and feed their families, etc. while we keep casualty at a reasonable level. Remember, we are talking about macro here. As long as we can show it's a net gain for the society, so be it. On a micro level, I don't wish anyone harm, but it is what it is.

Putting values on lives is not only done in this situation. Changes to traffic controls, for example, also have to put value on people's lives and time to determine if there will be a net gain or loss.

[SkinnyPupp]

It's "wrong" but someone has to do it. Again, limited resources is a bitch. This is the basis why economy is a thing. How else do you make decisions with limited resources and saving everyone is impossible?

And how exactly is it wrong, really? Is the life of someone without a job less important? No, money isn't everything, but you do need it to sustain life. It's less apparent, but domestic violence and suicides can be more common. How do you value those lives? Or is it "out of sight, out of mind" for you?

I am not agreeing with open everything fully and just roll the dice. Rather, it's a compromise - you open back up a bit with protective measures so some people can get back to work and feed their families, etc. while we keep casualty at a reasonable level. Remember, we are talking about macro here. As long as we can show it's a net gain for the society, so be it. On a micro level, I don't wish anyone harm, but it is what it is.

Putting values on lives is not only done in this situation. Changes to traffic controls, for example, also have to put value on people's lives and time to determine if there will be a net gain or loss.
I might be a bit slow right now, but it doesn't seem like we're talking about the same thing. You're talking about it in principle, which nobody is really arguing against. But maybe go back and read what people are saying, where they said we should let old people just die so the economy doesn't suffer as much. This of course ignores that more old people dying = hospitals completely overwhelmed and there would be literally piles of dead bodies outside hospitals. And also they aren't taking into account that it's not just "old people" who are significantly effected by this, but an extraordinary number of poor people which in the US correlates to black people. In Canada it likely correlates to First Nations, and every other country has their own marginalized people that this person clearly doesn't give a fuck about.

So he's really saying we should let old people die, which is bad enough (because when is it ever good to marginalize a group based on something they can't control?), but specifically old black people in America (and in Singapore this would be old S. Asian people) all die. So he can make more money. Fuck. That.

You can dilute it into meta arguments all you want, I think it's atrocious what's being said.

[twdm]

So he's really saying we should let old people die, which is bad enough (because when is it ever good to marginalize a group based on something they can't control?), but specifically old black people in America (and in Singapore this would be old S. Asian people) all die. So he can make more money. Fuck. That.

Good lord. I love how you like to twist words. It went from how what we're doing isnt cost effective into saying I want to kill all old people, blacks and south asians. FailFish

There is something called QALY. Go google it. The average value of one year of "perfect health" is around $100000. Any intervention that costs under that amount is considered cost effective, anything over the government is unlikely to fund. Sorry, the fact of life is even in public healthcare systems there are limits to how much they are willing to pay before they pull the plug.

[Manic!]

Race isn't the lone factor contributing to those stats.
African Americans also suffer from diabetes at eight times the rate of whites. And cardiovascular disease at six times. While I'm sure there are several others, those are definitely factors that attribute to the fatality rate of this disease.

That's because they are poor and lack proper healthcare.

[welfare]

Yes. They are also more commonly poor on average. That's not really the point though. You're explaining the how.

That's because they are poor and lack proper healthcare.


https://i.imgur.com/AG6162f.png
Latinos earn less personal income, on average, than African Americans.
And Asians earn more than whites.
Data doesn't seem to corroborate that theory.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States

[SkinnyPupp]

People keep trying to muddy the waters with the "WHY" black people in NY are more susceptible to Coronavirus. The main point is - we can't have people advocating for the deaths of racial groups or age groups simply because they want to make more money (or to put it more correctly, they want their corporate overlords to make more money while they feel good about getting a tiny cut of it).

[welfare]

I knew someone would reply with more large scale meta data...

Let's look at NY specifically since that's what we're talking about in the context of being hammered by C19 (the page I quoted allows you to look at individual states)

Stats from a few years ago (http://fiscalpolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Racial-Dimension-of-Income-Inequality.pdf):



Anyway, people keep trying to muddy the waters with the "WHY" black people in NY are more susceptible to Coronavirus. The main point is - we can't have people advocating for the deaths of racial groups or age groups simply because they want to make more money.

No one is advocating. But what you're claiming is not evident.
Latinos still earn less, even in NY alone. Yet they are significantly less effected.
Not all disparities are the result of poverty.

[SkinnyPupp]

Latinos still earn less, even in NY alone. Yet they are significantly less effected.

So what's your point?

[MarkyMark]

I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that someone who is going broke over this and wants to go back to work is a heartless racist that hates old people. No one wants people to die but the reality is at some point every country is going to start easing restrictions at the expense of some lives, there's no way around it.

[SkinnyPupp]

It's far beyond "heartless" to suggest letting hospitals get overwhelmed with sick old/black/poor people. It would be catastrophic in the strictest sense of that term.

I know I flippantly call out dumb statements sometimes, but in this case we're talking about an idea that is borderline evil. It is actually kind of psycopathic and frankly it sickens me a little that I'm not very surprised to see certain people supporting it. I understand that for some people things are getting to the point of frustration, and logic can take a back seat to extreme thoughts like this, especially when just shooting the shit on a message board. But this person has been saying this shit from the get-go. So I can understand where people are coming from I guess, it is just a bit sad in some cases, sickening in others FeelsBadMan

But thankfully we can go back to Canada being a great country with mostly good people, who voted in some fairly decent, if imperfect, people who wouldn't ever let anything like that happen.

[MarkyMark]

It honestly surprises me that you're so shocked that the world can be a cruel motherfucker. So much heartless shit goes on in the world every day and this is just a magnification of that.

If you think this is bad wait and see how people react when they start losing their homes and can't find a job, shits going to get real uncomfortable out there.

[hud 91gt]

I know we are passed the “lives have value” argument already.

But what happen’s when a country goes to war. I’m probably the least knowledgeable in this area, but you have a country with young, strong trained men. Ready to fight for their country. Is it assumed they will go to war and survive? They are literally sacrificial lambs. Individually they have great value, but their worth is over powered by the value of everyone in their country. In an ideal world, no one would die. We are literally in a war against a virus.

I totally respect your opinion Skinny, and it’s amazing to see how different people’s perspective is. You stated it is downright evil to think like that.. as this is over some people’s money. Yes, money is involved. But it’s bigger then that. It’s jobs and food on the table for EVERYONE. I’m no professor in economics, but there is a line and it’s not “shut everything down and let this pass” as the repercussions are far greater then the good.

My opinions may be overly simplistic, but I’m a simple person. :p

[Hondaracer]

China building concentration camps for minorities

The states allowing drug companies to push opioids to decimate communities

Canada leaving First Nations people without clean water or medical supplies

But how can we ever consider letting 80 year olds die from a worldwide pandemic?

Lol fuck give me a break.

[6793026]

I don't disagree for people going back to work if a state / county only has eg// 25 cases with zero deaths. Can't put a state of emergency just cause the largest city has an outbreak but a town of 3000 has to suffer. Point Roberts.

Again,that's just me. Can't put a number saying what is ok to open or not, I'm sure the county / state / province / city can decide themselves.

[hud 91gt]

China building concentration camps for minorities

The states allowing drug companies to push opioids to decimate communities

Canada leaving First Nations people without clean water or medical supplies

But how can we ever consider letting 80 year olds die from a worldwide pandemic?

Lol fuck give me a break.

Although I agree with you, we have a lot of issues in the world. These aren’t reasons to make small of killing some old people. Rather it’s minimizing any bad effects over all.

I think we can all agree on that.

[GGnoRE]

Just an idea but why don't we focus our resources in helping older aged (50+ years) or high-risk population to stay at home through government income + delivery of essential goods and start opening up the economy to younger working population that do not have direct exposure to said high-risk population (ie. you don't live with your parents). As far as I understand, hospitalization is concentrated in older population so this approach would be preventing hospitals from getting overrun as most younger healthy population are able to overcome the virus at home if they become infected. Also, I think this would allow the government to replace a higher portion of lost income for high-risk population that has to stay home, instead of spraying the whole working population with CERB, because $2000/month doesn't even cover mortgage payment for a lot of families.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/social-media/mm6915e3_HospitalizationsCOVID19_IMAGE_08April20_1 200x675-medium.jpg

[welfare]

So what's your point?

I guess I just grow a little tired of the only possible explanation to any and all racial disparities being:
A) racism
B) poverty
C) both A and B

It's to the point that people need to tip toe around contesting those conclusions for fear of being labeled, unjustifiably, racist.
I think it's unhealthy. And I think it performs a great disservice to those it's intended to support.

[Bouncing Bettys]

Save yourself the trouble of debating:

[quasi]

Excuse my ignorance if this has been posted already but I seen a news report about testing of homeless in Boston and it kind of blew my mind.

397 people tested and 146 tested positive that's not the surprising part, ZERO had any symptoms every one who tested positive was Asymptomatic.


https://www.boston25news.com/news/cdc-reviewing-stunning-universal-testing-results-boston-homeless-shelter/Z253TFBO6RG4HCUAARBO4YWO64/

[TjAlmeida]

Excuse my ignorance if this has been posted already but I seen a news report about testing of homeless in Boston and it kind of blew my mind.

397 people tested and 146 tested positive that's not the surprising part, ZERO had any symptoms every one who tested positive was Asymptomatic.


https://www.boston25news.com/news/cdc-reviewing-stunning-universal-testing-results-boston-homeless-shelter/Z253TFBO6RG4HCUAARBO4YWO64/

I think this was posted last page, shocking stats. Then someone also said who is to say those tests were accurate.

[westopher]

I posted it, but my numbers were slightly off by memory.
It could mean the tests are bad.
It could mean that the disease is far more infectious but far less powerful than we originally knew.
It could mean some sort of herd immunity due to an earlier outbreak than we knew of a less powerful strain/mutation of the virus.
It is very indicative of the need to study this situation.

[hud 91gt]

I posted it, but my numbers were slightly off by memory.
It could mean the tests are bad.
It could mean that the disease is far more infectious but far less powerful than we originally knew.
It could mean some sort of herd immunity due to an earlier outbreak than we knew of a less powerful strain/mutation of the virus.
It is very indicative of the need for Revscene to study this situation.
Edited

[Manic!]

Surrey Home Depot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNvHnG1Od0U&feature=youtu.be

[inv4zn]

^The fuck is he yelling about

[320icar]

Half the videos I go to play on here don’t work and it says “try signing in to a g suite account” the fuck is that

[VR6GTI]

dude appears to be upset about people coming into his place of work and he has to serve them instead of spending time with his family.

[hud 91gt]

I think he’s upset because there is a line full of “unessentials?” Im betting someone got angry as he probably skipped the line as he figures he has the right to do so for his work. Then he went ape shit.


If this is the case, these places should actually have seperate lines for “workers.” I don’t disagree with him in my made up scenario. But he didn’t handle himself well. Lol.

That’s what I got from it.

[Ludepower]

Fuck that POS. Seems like hes above everyone else in line.

Maybe home depot should have a separate lineup for contractors. If not, get in line and stfu.

[StylinRed]

The video doesn't really tell anything... But I think there's a line for essential services ppl, and a line for regular ppl, and someone yelled at him for using that line? Cuz they thought he was cutting the line?

Then he went off on them for making things worse cuz they're just here to buy shit for their gardening



28 ppl in a chicken processing plant in Vancouver have tested positive, not included in today's numbers of new cases

[SkinnyPupp]

Cartoon Villains

https://twitter.com/ChinaDaily/status/1252212123490562048

[GLOW]

i think he said he had a water leak he had to fix and complaining other people are working on their garden, rebutted that said person built group homes

that's all i caught from the rant

[6793026]

Excuse my ignorance if this has been posted already but I seen a news report about testing of homeless in Boston and it kind of blew my mind.

397 people tested and 146 tested positive that's not the surprising part, ZERO had any symptoms every one who tested positive was Asymptomatic.

This is the main reason why it's so important to take shit seriously, asymptomatic people are EVERYWHEREEEEEEEE.

I smack this fact to EVERYONE when they say "i'm not sick" "F UUUUUUU, you can still be COVID contagious"

Yes, if you have a fever (and or worse yet, show a lot of signs of COVI19) and you're still MOFO irresponsible, tnt and all these shopping centers should have every right to ban you from coming in.


I think he’s upset because there is a line full of “unessentials?” Im betting someone got angry as he probably skipped the line as he figures he has the right to do so for his work. Then he went ape shit.


Nowadays, I seem to have a bit more sympathy with people on the edge, i just laugh it off. At times of COVID, getting mad ain't helping.

[twdm]

Here is a little bit of collateral damage due to the global lockdown. But hey who cares about the little black people starving in Africa. Better dead from starvation than from COVID-19.

"135 million people facing crisis levels of hunger or worse, coupled with an additional 130 million on the edge of starvation prompted by Coronavirus"

https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/04/1062272

[SkinnyPupp]

Here is a little bit of collateral damage due to the global lockdown. But hey who cares about the little black people starving in Africa. Better dead from starvation than from COVID-19.

"135 million people facing crisis levels of hunger or worse, coupled with an additional 130 million on the edge of starvation prompted by Coronavirus"

https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/04/1062272
Yes, this is a pandemic. It's really bad. Do you have a point?

[twitchyzero]

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/b-c-doctors-fear-collateral-damage-as-patients-spooked-by-pandemic-1.4906450

stay home...but we also need to feed the sick biz machine

[twdm]

Yes, this is a pandemic. It's really bad. Do you have a point?

These people aren't starving because of getting infected by COVID-19, they're starving because of the global shutdown. Use your brain.

Notice how you don't see massive increases in starvation during flu pandemics?

[SkinnyPupp]

These people aren't starving because of getting infected by COVID-19, they're starving because of the global shutdown. Use your brain.

Notice how you don't see massive increases in starvation during flu pandemics?
OK let's take this seriously for a minute. Let you keep digging deeper.

1) Why do you think there's a global shutdown?

2) When was the last time the flu infected and killed so many people so rapidly?

[twdm]

OK let's take this seriously for a minute. Let you keep digging deeper.

1) Why do you think there's a global shutdown?

2) When was the last time the flu infected and killed so many people so rapidly?

1. There are decisions that were made hastily based on "models" and "doomsday projections". Sweden has largely debunked the myths.

2. Since you aren't a healthcare professional you wouldn't have realized the 2017-18 flu devastated healthcare systems. And because we're both living in Hong Kong, I would like to let you know that all public hospitals were over capacity and even private hospitals had waitlists for admission.

If you want data here it is (US CDC data for US alone):
The overall burden of influenza for the 2017-2018 season was an estimated 45 million influenza illnesses, 21 million influenza-associated medical visits, 810,000 influenza-related hospitalizations, and 61,000 influenza-associated deaths

And this is WITH VACCINATION and WITH TREATMENT over a largely 5 month period (from Nov-Mar.)

Also of note, it killed people from all age groups.

Then again, it's easy to make all these claims when you don't actually know shit.

[SkinnyPupp]

1. There are decisions that were made hastily based on "models" and "doomsday projections". Sweden has largely debunked the myths.

2. Since you aren't a healthcare professional you wouldn't have realized the 2017-18 flu devastated healthcare systems. And because we're both living in Hong Kong, I would like to let you know that all public hospitals were over capacity and even private hospitals had waitlists for admission.

If you want data here it is (US CDC data for US alone):
The overall burden of influenza for the 2017-2018 season was an estimated 45 million influenza illnesses, 21 million influenza-associated medical visits, 810,000 influenza-related hospitalizations, and 61,000 influenza-associated deaths

And this is WITH VACCINATION and WITH TREATMENT over a largely 5 month period (from Nov-Mar.)

Also of note, it killed people from all age groups.

1) Sweden hasn't "debunked" anything compared to all their neighbouring countries. (note this is NOT a random selection of countries, but rather all countries surrounding Sweden, regardless of policy, with population size taken into account)

If anything is "debunked" it's the idea that we would be able to survive for very long without strict social distancing controls.

https://i.imgur.com/b1eQ4dz.png

2) Quit trying to throw that fallacy of you knowing anything since you claim to be a healthcare professional. Whether you are or not is clearly not relevant.

2b) We went through this before, comparing the 17/18 flu to the coronavirus. Comparing an entire flu season AND pneumonia to 2 months of Corona in a hard hit area looks like this:

https://www.thenewatlantis.com/imgLib/20200414_CovidweeklydeathsNYv3.jpg

And yes, even with vaccination and treatment, flu kills a lot of people. And it still pales in comparison to coronavirus.

That is why the global economy took a back seat to "flatten the curve".

If ANYONE were to listen to your advice, the world would look like The Road by now.


Then again, it's easy to make all these claims when you don't actually know shit.

Keep pretending like you know what you're talking about, since you work in a hospital. SeemsGood

If anything, you have even less of an excuse to be so wrong. You had somewhat of an excuse to be ignorant before the outbreak went worldwide. That's why I entertained the idea of arguing with you early on, it is only fair. Some even supported your nonsense early on, but it didn't take long for you to be proven so wrong.

But for you to continue saying this shit now, continuing to dig yourself deeper into this hole... You are just insulting everyone's intelligence now. This is even worse than the "liberate" protesters in America. At least they have a point in that they want to get a haircut.

[twdm]

Are you really that stupid or can you not do math. Can we stop using deaths per million over a short data period and look at final deaths? Because thats what really matters. The 2017/18 flu has killed more people than the COVID19 in the US. That is a fact. Dont give me bullshit about "pales in comparison".

[Presto]

COVID19 is not over yet, buddy. The US has over 45,000 deaths today. This is double from last week. At this rate, it will surpass the 2017/2018 flu deaths before another week passes.

[SkinnyPupp]

Are you really that stupid or can you not do math. Can we stop using deaths per million over a short data period and look at final deaths? Because thats what really matters. The 2017/18 flu has killed more people than the COVID19 in the US. That is a fact. Dont give me bullshit about "pales in comparison".
Take deaths per million, multiply it by the population in millions, and you have total deaths.

And this "short data period" covers the entire 17/18 flu season.

Even if there were literally zero more deaths from C19 and it stopped at 20K in New York, just look at the spike it caused. How is it not obvious that having this many sick people all at once is WAY WAY WAY worse than having more people spread out over a flu season. :fulloffuck:

But sure, keep going..

[SkinnyPupp]

COVID19 is not over yet, buddy. The US has over 45,000 deaths today. This is double from last week. At this rate, it will surpass the 2017/2018 flu deaths before another week passes.
And that is WITH all these extreme measures being taken. Just look at how fast it's happening.

Imagine if some clown decided that they didn't need to do all this stuff, thinking that "the economy" would be saved since it's "just old people" dying, and let everyone roam free to spread the virus... It would be literally catastrophic to the state of America.

[Manic!]

COVID19 is not over yet, buddy. The US has over 45,000 deaths today. This is double from last week. At this rate, it will surpass the 2017/2018 flu deaths before another week passes.

and that's on top of the number of people who die from the flu evey year.

[twdm]

COVID19 is not over yet, buddy. The US has over 45,000 deaths today. This is double from last week. At this rate, it will surpass the 2017/2018 flu deaths before another week passes.

Buddy no one is contesting COVID 19 isn't more deadly than the regular flu. The point is that it isn't 10-100 times more deadly like the doomsday prophets are saying.

Sure watch your country go into shambles. Just take a poll of how many people here need to apply for money from the gov? The swedes are eating their popcorn and watching the idiots run around with their heads cut off. Oh yea, they have a grand total of ~1800 dead? Shouldnt all their old people be dead according to the skinnypupp? Cars on fire, everyone dying left and right?

Hospitals filled to the max?
Oh wait only 80% occupancy.

But but denmark is so much better. Well unemployment rates are increasing 4x faster than sweden. Personal spending down 70% vs 30% for Sweden.

Oh yea. They're also not locked down at home. Just basic precautions.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.euronews.com/amp/2020/04/21/analysis-is-sweden-right-in-its-handling-of-covid-19

Time will tell how stupid all of this was. I predict Sweden will still be on the map, their elderly will still be alive and they'll be writing books about how they avoided the bulk of the man-made disaster.

Skinny will also probably get fired or be forced to take no pay leave, but dont worry its for the elderly.

[hud 91gt]

If you guys could stop insulting each other we may be able to have an interesting conversation.


For anyone in the know, what is the reasoning for the common flu to die out over the year?

TWDN states total deaths is what you should look at. As previously stated, that doesn’t make a whole lot of sense until this whole situation is over due to varying degrees of the rate of spread.

Skinny states: but look at the rate of infection!

Well yes, but the R value (or whatever they call the contagion value) is twice as high, of course the value will be higher). You make a valid point on hospital capacity. But total number at the end will tell the story whether or not we were set to help these people in a hospital or not.

Carry on.

[SkinnyPupp]

"Time will tell" a lot, but only because these extreme measures were taken. The only thing saving Sweden from total catastrophe is the shutdowns of surrounding countries keeping things somewhat in check for them.

If everyone would just sit by idly and let the "old people" fill hospitals and then morgues, we wouldn't have the luxury of arguing about it online. Looking at "total deaths" at the end of it all, the count is going to be insanely high, obviously. And that is WITH the measures taken. Without any measures taken, you wouldn't even fathom being concerned about counting numbers and arguing with people online. You would have much more important matters to be concerned with.

This sounds like hyperbole, but if we've learned anything in the past few months, it should be that things rarely seem like hyperbole anymore. Ask anyone who lived in Wuhan around January.

[Hondaracer]

So according to those charts Sweden would be looking at approx 1500 deaths VS Denmark’s 380 or so

If that turns out to be accurate and Sweden remains with their model of non-isolation, business open as usual etc. I’d say that’s a small price to pay relative to keeping your country running.

[SkinnyPupp]

So according to those charts Sweden would be looking at approx 1500 deaths VS Denmark’s 380 or so

If that turns out to be accurate and Sweden remains with their model of non-isolation, business open as usual etc. I’d say that’s a small price to pay relative to keeping your country running.
Not really. Denmark's curve is flattening- they peaked at around 20 deaths per day, while Sweden is still seeing hundreds and continues to grow

https://i.imgur.com/ImqmnhW.png

Hardly a "small price to pay" so some businesses can make more money.

[twitchyzero]

i don't agree with 'make more money' i feel like most businesses even if they were open in some capacity right now is to stay afloat

a short data period

says the guy quoting fatality rate in late January/early Feburary before the novel virus was even named

[Bouncing Bettys]

Although life expectancy went up in the US during the depression for various reasons, the death toll from this pandemic abd economic collapse could take years to determine:
https://twitter.com/cnni/status/1252897211568082944

[Hakkaboy]

I remember reading a quote somewhere:

We may never know if we acted too early and overreacted, but we will definitely know if we acted too late

In this case overreaction is good, because the alternative is worse, way worse

[UnknownJinX]

Save yourself the trouble of debating:

Translation for this picture: I don't want to have a real debate or use my brain.

And they wonder why critical thinking is dying.

i don't agree with 'make more money' i feel like most businesses even if they were open in some capacity right now is to stay afloat

IMO the shutdown actually benefited big businesses since a lot of them are essential(grocery store) or provide online services, while local restaurants start to close their doors forever. Also, even these big corps suffer for now, they either have enough reserve to tank through the storm or get bailed out.

If you are against the "bad big corps", the lockdown actually isn't something you want to see. Just saying.

Again, who do you weigh more, the people who lost their jobs or small businesses, or the sick people? Interesting discussion.

[Hondaracer]

That’s what I said before, this is the start of the dystopian future where you only shop at big box stores, you only eat at massive chain restaurants, etc.

There undoubtedly will be huge opportunity for small business coming out of this picking up the ashes of the businesses they will be replacing but people are wayyyy too dumb to realize the importance of supporting small business to keep enough of them afloat imo. Hell, even the supply chains for small restaurants could go under. Not every restaurant uses, or wants to use a sysco or similar supplier. Small restys that use local ingredients and produce and proteins may be in real tough coming out of this.

[welfare]

I think it really depends on the government's approach.
If they offer tax relief incentives to small businesses and less regulation (like I'm hoping they will), as opposed to a tax and spend approach, rebound will likely come sooner than later, IMO.
It also depends on what happens when restrictions are lifted.
No way small businesses can sustain opening and closing and opening again due to cases flaring up.

[Hondaracer]

Many small business already seem to just be closing permanent and cutting their losses.

I think even with a proper rebound consumer confidence will be so lacking that it will be hard to continue to operate regardless

[Bouncing Bettys]

Translation for this picture: I don't want to have a real debate or use my brain.

And they wonder why critical thinking is dying.

It's humour. It was made by The Babylon Bee, a satirical fake news site much like The Onion. Not far from the current dialogue though.

[!LittleDragon]

So according to those charts Sweden would be looking at approx 1500 deaths VS Denmark’s 380 or so

If that turns out to be accurate and Sweden remains with their model of non-isolation, business open as usual etc. I’d say that’s a small price to pay relative to keeping your country running.

Interestingly, Sweden's 1500 deaths and the 50,000 deaths in the US are both 0.02% of their population. It would be interesting to see if that percentage number diverges in the future. One is not isolating and the other isolated late.

Canada and Denmark are both at 0.01%. Not sure if it's because we isolated early or if we're just behind the curve.

Not sure if this isolation thing is going to get rid of the virus. SARS-CoV-2 is going to be around forever. If we reopen, no matter how slowly or carefully, it's going to start spreading again. The only thing we've ever successfully eradicated is Smallpox.

[!LittleDragon]

I think it really depends on the government's approach.
If they offer tax relief incentives to small businesses and less regulation (like I'm hoping they will), as opposed to a tax and spend approach, rebound will likely come sooner than later, IMO.
It also depends on what happens when restrictions are lifted.
No way small businesses can sustain opening and closing and opening again due to cases flaring up.

Remember that time when Morneau thought small business owners were super rich 1%ers and tried to increase taxes and tried to remove tax shifting mechanisms? Guess he never knew small businesses ran on such slim margins that they couldn't last a month without income.

[westopher]

That’s what I said before, this is the start of the dystopian future where you only shop at big box stores, you only eat at massive chain restaurants, etc.

There undoubtedly will be huge opportunity for small business coming out of this picking up the ashes of the businesses they will be replacing but people are wayyyy too dumb to realize the importance of supporting small business to keep enough of them afloat imo. Hell, even the supply chains for small restaurants could go under. Not every restaurant uses, or wants to use a sysco or similar supplier. Small restys that use local ingredients and produce and proteins may be in real tough coming out of this.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again to reiterate.
Be conscious where you spend your money. Do you care about where it goes? If not, you should, because it’s the most control you have over seeing the places you care about continuing to exist. I moved to Vancouver because I wanted to be a chef at a small, independent and respectable restaurant that cared about its products, and not just a big box restaurant with premade shit. I’ve taken a large pay cut over what I could have been making if I chose to do that, and it was WELL worth it. If Vancouver loses those options it destroys a huge part of the culture here and what makes this city special.
That goes far beyond restaurants, but of course that’s the part that’s most important to me.

[Hondaracer]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again to reiterate.
Be conscious where you spend your money. Do you care about where it goes? If not, you should, because it’s the most control you have over seeing the places you care about continuing to exist. I moved to Vancouver because I wanted to be a chef at a small, independent and respectable restaurant that cared about its products, and not just a big box restaurant with premade shit. I’ve taken a large pay cut over what I could have been making if I chose to do that, and it was WELL worth it. If Vancouver loses those options it destroys a huge part of the culture here and what makes this city special.
That goes far beyond restaurants, but of course that’s the part that’s most important to me.

I’ve been actively trying to avoid spending money on more frivolous shit (ie. a new BBQ although I could def use one) in order to spend disposable income at local restaurants and shops.

We’ve also held off on ordering things online and have been waiting for them to come back in stock locally at places like gourmet wharehouse etc.

Unfortunately I really don’t think the general public realizes how much these small business and restaurants rely on consistent support. Especially restys that had virtually no take out prior to this

Hopefully your place comes out of this on the other end westopher and we can come and support it.

[Ch28]

Many small business already seem to just be closing permanent and cutting their losses.

I think even with a proper rebound consumer confidence will be so lacking that it will be hard to continue to operate regardless

It'll be extremely interesting to see how many small businesses make it through this. From a quick Google of stats, 99.8% of businesses in Canada are small and medium-sized businesses.

Remember that time when Morneau thought small business owners were super rich 1%ers and tried to increase taxes and tried to remove tax shifting mechanisms? Guess he never knew small businesses ran on such slim margins that they couldn't last a month without income.

From all accounts, Bill Morneau is a real piece of shit so him being completely out of touch isn't surprising :lol

[Tapioca]

Even though the numbers applying for assistance are high, the majority of the workforce remains employed, particularly middle and higher income earners. They are saving money in terms of commuting, childcare, and grooming costs and once a sense of normalcy returns, it will be these people who drive the economic recovery. In my enclave of the Lower Mainland, people are still supporting restaurants, breweries, and local businesses where they can. Real estate is still moving, particularly sub-1 million properties. There is pent up demand to eat in restaurants and buy homes. People are still online shopping - lots of good deals to be had in clothing and cosmetics right now if you know where to look. I'm still seeing UPS and FedEx trucks dropping stuff off in my neighbourhood on a daily basis.

People on RS don't seem to be too perturbed about the economy. People are still concerned about getting their car parts from the States and getting the lowest rates on their mortgage renewals. Spending a couple hundred dollars on N95 masks is no problem.

Sure, some businesses will probably never come back, but I'm sensing that most will come back in some shape or form.

[320icar]

It'll be extremely interesting to see how many small businesses make it through this. From a quick Google of stats, 99.8% of businesses in Canada are small and medium-sized businesses.


My wife grew up near salmon arm in buttfuck know where and spent a lot of time traveling in the US for shows when she was younger. To this day she still brings up how much the lower mainland is ‘incorporated’. If you go shopping, it’s to a big box store. If you go eat it’s at a chain restaurant. When you leave the GVRD there are so many more independently owned restaurants and grocery stores and bakeries etc. Everything is a small business in a small town.

I don’t think people here realize how much big box stores change things. The South Park Walmart episode is right on the money.

[pastarocket]

This pandemic brings out the best and also the worst behaviour from people.

-despicable act of violence against an elderly Asian man by a racist dude. -sounds like it happened at a 7 Eleven in my neighborhood. :mad:

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/04/22/elderly-man-assaulted-in-what-vpd-describe-as-racially-motivated-incident/

VANCOUVER (NEWS 1130) – Police in Vancouver are seeing an uptick in anti-Asian and racially-motivated attacks, and an elderly man being assaulted recently is another prime example.
The VPD says a 92-year-old man with severe dementia was inside a convenience store along Nanaimo Street and East 1st Avenue on March 13 when someone yelled racist remarks at him, including comments about COVID-19.

Once outside, police say the suspect shoved the senior, causing him to fall down and hit his head. The suspect was gone by the time police arrived, but officers are hoping someone might recognize him.
“Everything about this assault and the behaviour of the suspect is despicable,” Constable Tania Visintin says in a release. “As a police department, we do not tolerate incidents motivated by bias, prejudice, or hate. It’s even more disturbing considering the victim’s age.”

In recent weeks, the VPD says it is seeing more cases like this — 11 hate crimes were reported in March, with almost half of them reported as anti-Asian.

[welfare]

I don’t think people here realize how much big box stores change things. The South Park Walmart episode is right on the money.


Good Lord, South park would have so much material right now. The episodes would be incredible.

[twitchyzero]

Even though the numbers applying for assistance are high, the majority of the workforce remains employed, particularly middle and higher income earners. They are saving money in terms of commuting, childcare, and grooming costs and once a sense of normalcy returns, it will be these people who drive the economic recovery. In my enclave of the Lower Mainland, people are still supporting restaurants, breweries, and local businesses where they can. Real estate is still moving, particularly sub-1 million properties. There is pent up demand to eat in restaurants and buy homes. People are still online shopping - lots of good deals to be had in clothing and cosmetics right now if you know where to look. I'm still seeing UPS and FedEx trucks dropping stuff off in my neighbourhood on a daily basis.

People on RS don't seem to be too perturbed about the economy. People are still concerned about getting their car parts from the States and getting the lowest rates on their mortgage renewals. Spending a couple hundred dollars on N95 masks is no problem.

Sure, some businesses will probably never come back, but I'm sensing that most will come back in some shape or form.

your enclave/neighbourhood/this forum, is it representative of Vancouver area?

[trd2343]

Translation for this picture: I don't want to have a real debate or use my brain.

And they wonder why critical thinking is dying.



IMO the shutdown actually benefited big businesses since a lot of them are essential(grocery store) or provide online services, while local restaurants start to close their doors forever. Also, even these big corps suffer for now, they either have enough reserve to tank through the storm or get bailed out.

If you are against the "bad big corps", the lockdown actually isn't something you want to see. Just saying.

Again, who do you weigh more, the people who lost their jobs or small businesses, or the sick people? Interesting discussion.

Unfortunately, some don’t see it as a discussion at all (for both sides).

[CivicBlues]

My wife grew up near salmon arm in buttfuck know where and spent a lot of time traveling in the US for shows when she was younger. To this day she still brings up how much the lower mainland is ‘incorporated’. If you go shopping, it’s to a big box store. If you go eat it’s at a chain restaurant. When you leave the GVRD there are so many more independently owned restaurants and grocery stores and bakeries etc. Everything is a small business in a small town.

I don’t think people here realize how much big box stores change things. The South Park Walmart episode is right on the money.

What the hell are you talking about? I live in Vancouver, and almost exclusively patronize mom-and-pop business and stores. The grocery stores nearby (Safeway, Whole Foods, Save Ons) are probably the only "big box" stores I've set foot in the past 6 months prior to COVID. Even now I'm only doing takeout from my local hole-in-the-wall faves. Perhaps it depends entirely on the neighborhood one lives in but I can pretty much get everything from local shops - Hardware, Produce, meat, etc. I don't really buy electronics or clothing very often so that negates me going a lot of bigger stores. Whereas when I visit I find it's mostly suburbanites and smaller town folks that do all their shopping at places like Walmart, Costco, Home Depot. Eat at Boston Pizza, Cactus Club, Earls. If the town is small enough, then yeah, a lot of businesses are still local.

[Hondaracer]

Yea I agree completely CB.

Have family that live in the kootneys and they all leave their smaller towns to go to places like Costco, superstore etc in neighbouring bigger towns. Most of the main grocers in these towns are also operated by larger “chain” corporations as opposed to the supply of local farmers markets or independent grocers we have locally

Growing up I remember they thought it was such a treat when A&W opened up in Cranbrook lol..

[mikemhg]

I'm finding it strangely ironic how some posters in this thread suddenly have a bleeding heart for the poor and hungry in the 3rd world. I have literally never seen these posters speak about world hunger, or even care about the subject. But when it comes to COVID and "reopening the economy" now world hunger is important? Very interesting :)

I've never been a major proponent of corporations, but this romance with "small business" is a fallacy. Yes there will be consolidation, but is that ultimately bad?

Small businesses are much more likely to cut jobs and layoff their workers. You are much more likely to earn a higher wage for a large company, then a smaller one. Benefit plans, paid leave, insurance and retirement benefits tend to be far greater at larger companies, then small businesses. Large companies create far more lasting jobs, with gainful pay, along with the innovation and development that only large companies have the capital to create.

Ever worked for a small business? It's not necessarily sunshine and daises.

Once again, I'm not here trying to cape for large businesses here, but I have never understood this mentality of hating corporations, and having a love affair with small business. It's nonsensical.

[westopher]

I think you seem to believe that people are looking at this a lot more black and white than they are.
No one in here is dumb enough to believe every small business owner is an angel or dumb enough to believe every large company doesn’t give a fuck about their employees, but it’s not that hard to figure out from
A) personal experiences with the companies
B) any sort of information available about the businesses online
Who fits in to either category.
I’m sure there are people elsewhere that fit into that mentality but I think we are pretty aware as far as people partaking in that conversation.

Edit:
The large corporations that do offer gainful employment are really not often found in the retail and foodservice sector, like things we would be purchasing from on a day to day basis. They are technological, large scale manufacturing companies.
Walmart, amazon, Mac Donald’s, etc are the examples I’m making a point about in comparison to your local restaurants, retail and clothing stores

[320icar]

What the hell are you talking about? I live in Vancouver, and almost exclusively patronize mom-and-pop business and stores. The grocery stores nearby (Safeway, Whole Foods, Save Ons) are probably the only "big box" stores I've set foot in the past 6 months prior to COVID. Even now I'm only doing takeout from my local hole-in-the-wall faves. Perhaps it depends entirely on the neighborhood one lives in but I can pretty much get everything from local shops - Hardware, Produce, meat, etc. I don't really buy electronics or clothing very often so that negates me going a lot of bigger stores. Whereas when I visit I find it's mostly suburbanites and smaller town folks that do all their shopping at places like Walmart, Costco, Home Depot. Eat at Boston Pizza, Cactus Club, Earls. If the town is small enough, then yeah, a lot of businesses are still local.


I stand by what I said, but your posts always have a shitty attitude to them.

[ImportPsycho]

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/04/22/elderly-man-assaulted-in-what-vpd-describe-as-racially-motivated-incident/

[CivicBlues]

I stand by what I said, but your posts always have a shitty attitude to them.

Sorry.

[6793026]

We may never know if we acted too early and overreacted, but we will definitely know if we acted too late


great quote... singapore learned it the hard way. They thought OH, they are world leader in this covid19 on containing.. opened for a bit and bam 300+ new cases. Shut down again.

I can't wait to see how US will see a sudden spike on wave 2 or 3.


I personally have shopped at small business for groceries even though I live in richmond. I don't go to TNT or price smart. I find TNT has really jacked up items beyond what's normal. Now save on foods, I do need my milk and butter which I cna't get from chinese groceries stores.

Even when I had a job, because I've been blessed being a good home cook, but growing up, mom and dad never had any income to order in or take out.
But man I see so many take out deliveries to our neighbors, I don't know how people can eat that much deliveries.

[CivicBlues]

great quote... singapore learned it the hard way. They thought OH, they are world leader in this covid19 on containing.. opened for a bit and bam 300+ new cases. Shut down again.


Almost all of the new cases are from Foreign workers living in cramped dormitories. Singapore didn't really even "lockdown" until April.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/image/12664454/0x0/1550/2755/e24b55149d45aa9ef8648a67235204ff/fV/covid-19-gfx-singapore-apr-21.png

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-new-cases-moh-apr-21-foreign-workers-dormitories-12660968

[Ch28]

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/04/22/elderly-man-assaulted-in-what-vpd-describe-as-racially-motivated-incident/

Good luck hiding, you dumb fuck.

Assaulting a 92-year-old senior. Real tough.

[Manic!]

Remember that time when Morneau thought small business owners were super rich 1%ers and tried to increase taxes and tried to remove tax shifting mechanisms? Guess he never knew small businesses ran on such slim margins that they couldn't last a month without income.

Not all small business owners are broke.

[Bouncing Bettys]

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/04/22/elderly-man-assaulted-in-what-vpd-describe-as-racially-motivated-incident/
This occurred on March 13th, at the height of confusion/panic. Not excusing his behaviour, but I find it odd why it took over a month to have the story come out.

[SkinnyPupp]

Almost all of the new cases are from Foreign workers living in cramped dormitories. Singapore didn't really even "lockdown" until April.

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/singapore/covid-19-new-cases-moh-apr-21-foreign-workers-dormitories-12660968

One day Singapore will be used as an example, but we don't even know of what that example will be yet. I remember in early March people were saying they basically had the virus defeated. But it seems they got too complacent, missed out on one key step in controlling the virus (wearing masks), and community spreading started to take hold. The other key thing may be that they gave out masks and sanitizer to local residents, but not foreigners. The virus doesn't give a shit whether you're visiting a country or were born there, but the government does, so they got fucked. It eventually got to the dorms, where people literally can't socially isolate.. and boom

So few people outside SG know about the horrible living conditions of their low income foreigner work force. They seem to be practically slaves. Those who did know warned about the conditions, but their voices were stifled.

https://twitter.com/ShibaniMahtani/status/1252757427465814017

Unfortunately that's behind a paywall; I think it would be a good read.

There are so many news sources that offer good content, but each one costs money to go to. I already sub to so many things, so I feel like I am missing out FeelsBadMan

[JSALES]

Man who called covid-19 lockdown bullshit dies from virus

https://au.news.yahoo.com/man-said-covid-19-lockdown-bull-dies-from-virus-105610080.html

[HonestTea]

great quote... singapore learned it the hard way. They thought OH, they are world leader in this covid19 on containing.. opened for a bit and bam 300+ new cases. Shut down again.

I can't wait to see how US will see a sudden spike on wave 2 or 3.


I personally have shopped at small business for groceries even though I live in richmond. I don't go to TNT or price smart. I find TNT has really jacked up items beyond what's normal. Now save on foods, I do need my milk and butter which I cna't get from chinese groceries stores.

Even when I had a job, because I've been blessed being a good home cook, but growing up, mom and dad never had any income to order in or take out.
But man I see so many take out deliveries to our neighbors, I don't know how people can eat that much deliveries.

Cause you live in Richmond, plenty of international students that have a lot of disposable income and are shitty cooks.

[68style]

Fuck I live in Richmond and my buildings front lobby is literally a circus of Fantuan delivery drivers every night

[Great68]

So apparently a new autopsy found 2 Californians died of COVID 3 weeks before the first officially reported death of COVID in the US. Even more important is that they had no significant travel history meaning this was community spread to them, which means this was spreading in the USA (and probably Canada) FAR longer than originally thought.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/us/california-deaths-earliest-in-us/index.html

[1337]

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/coronavirus-cases-deaths-bc-april-22-2020

71 new cases. Likely from the warm long weekend weather. Would not be surprised to see an uptrend with the warm weather all of last week and seeing crowds around the city.

[Ch28]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/covid-financial-aid-province-not-enough-vancouver-mayor-1.5541869

"Mayor Kennedy Stewart says borrowing money from province would saddle city with massive deficit."

"Vancouver's mayor says the financial help being offered by the B.C. government is a "poison chalice" because of the terms it would impose on the city."

https://i.imgur.com/8bXQHqm.gif

[Hondaracer]

Duck when you thought moonbeam was bad along came Stewart.

Even though I will be effected I think Vancouver needs a huge fucking overhaul in terms of where our money goes. You walk along false creek sea wall and shit is in shambles compared to 10 years ago. We can’t maintain basic parks and cleanlisness shit, homelessness has never been addressed, how he’s crying about this shit?

Ffs..

[bcedhk]

This occurred on March 13th, at the height of confusion/panic. Not excusing his behaviour, but I find it odd why it took over a month to have the story come out.

It takes a few weeks for VPD to gather evidence, conduct interviews and then make sure everything is confirmed with the Communication team before releasing it to the press. They probably wanted to just find the person internally first before reaching out to the public for help.

[Jmac]

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/coronavirus-cases-deaths-bc-april-22-2020

71 new cases. Likely from the warm long weekend weather. Would not be surprised to see an uptrend with the warm weather all of last week and seeing crowds around the city.
Today’s cases included the chicken farm workers that were on the news yesterday.

[pastarocket]

More bad news from CNN about this nasty bug. Covid 19 can cause strokes in healthy people in their 30s and 40s:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/health/strokes-coronavirus-young-adults/index.html

The new coronavirus appears to be causing sudden strokes in adults in their 30s and 40s who are not otherwise terribly ill, doctors reported Wednesday.

They said patients may be unwilling to call 911 because they have heard hospitals are overwhelmed by coronavirus cases.
There's growing evidence that Covid-19 infection can cause the blood to clot in unusual ways, and stroke would be an expected consequence of that.


Dr. Thomas Oxley, a neurosurgeon at Mount Sinai Health System in New York, and colleagues gave details of five people they treated. All were under the age of 50, and all had either mild symptoms of Covid-19 infection or no symptoms at all.

"The virus seems to be causing increased clotting in the large arteries, leading to severe stroke," Oxley told CNN.

"Our report shows a seven-fold increase in incidence of sudden stroke in young patients during the past two weeks. Most of these patients have no past medical history and were at home with either mild symptoms (or in two cases, no symptoms) of Covid," he added.
Doctors try to untangle why they're seeing 'unprecedented' blood clotting among Covid-19 patients


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hondaracer]

Nah

[320icar]

I feel that Americans and their diet/average BMI are begging for strokes. I’ll wait until it starts happening in other countries

[SkinnyPupp]

I feel that Americans and their diet/average BMI are begging for strokes. I’ll wait until it starts happening in other countries
The article says no past history, and also even unhealthy fat people don't usually get strokes in their 30's and 40's unless it's from other causes.

[Hondaracer]

It’s CNN.

[underscore]

What's the accuracy of the testing that's currently available and being used for things like these autopsies or the homeless in Boston?

[Manic!]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APoSHB9pQk8&t=1248s

FailFish FailFish FailFish FailFish FailFish FailFish

[Teriyaki]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APoSHB9pQk8&t=1248s

FailFish FailFish FailFish FailFish FailFish FailFish

Goddamn, money over lives. 100% this woman.

[welfare]

Man the media is really working overtime to disprove hydroxychloroquine. To the point of bombarding the airwaves with severely flawed studies as if they were fact.
It's almost as if they're hoping it fails as a treatment LUL
https://globalnews.ca/news/6847709/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-research/

[Manic!]

Man the media is really working overtime to disprove hydroxychloroquine. To the point of bombarding the airwaves with severely flawed studies as if they were fact.
It's almost as if they're hoping it fails as a treatment LUL
https://globalnews.ca/news/6847709/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-research/

How many days does trump have to return the 30 million doses he bought?
Is the return policy simular to Costco?


https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/therapeutic-options.html

Information for Clinicians on Investigational Therapeutics for Patients with COVID-19

Updated April 13, 2020

There are no drugs or other therapeutics approved by the US Food and Drug Administration to prevent or treat COVID-19. Current clinical management includes infection prevention and control measures and supportive care, including supplemental oxygen and mechanical ventilatory support when indicated. Interim guidelines for the medical management of COVID-19 will be provided soon by the Department of Health and Human Services COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel.

[!LittleDragon]

Is that CNN now? Haven't had American news channels for years. Anderson just kept trying to put words in her mouth.

[SkinnyPupp]

Man the media is really working overtime to disprove hydroxychloroquine. To the point of bombarding the airwaves with severely flawed studies as if they were fact.
It's almost as if they're hoping it fails as a treatment LUL
https://globalnews.ca/news/6847709/hydroxychloroquine-coronavirus-research/
Early research on these drugs showed very little promise from the start. There was one in-vitro study by a whackjob researcher in France that showed positive results. Everything else I've seen that is science-based said it's not what we hoped it would be. We've yet to do a large enough study to really conclude either way however.

Also reporting on facts does NOT mean you want it to happen.

[welfare]

Early research on these drugs showed very little promise from the start. There was one in-vitro study by a whackjob researcher in France that showed positive results. Everything else I've seen that is science-based said it's not what we hoped it would be. We've yet to do a large enough study to really conclude either way however.

That "whackjob" conducted the biggest clinical trial on the planet, using over 2600 patients in a controlled test.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhoi1JKjClk


Also reporting on facts does NOT mean you want it to happen.

Let's look at these "facts" from the study that all the media seemed so conclusive about yesterday.

1) this "study" was by no means a random and controlled test. These were charts that were dug up and reviewed after the fact.

2) patients had essentially been given the drug as a last ditch effort long after they'd shown symptoms.
Antiviral medication is meant to reduce the spread in the body, NOT reverse damage that's already been done.
It's meant to be administered at the earliest possible stage. But they keep giving it to people on their death bed and saying "i guess it doesn't work".

3) all charts reviewed were male. Double the rate of death from females. Again, NOT random testing.

4) the majority of charts reviewed were African American. Which we already know suffer a much higher rate of death. And yes, again, NOT random testing.

5) it's stated that "those who were at a higher risk of death were given hydroxychloroquine". Well yea, no shit that's gonna skew the results.

This "study" was complete and utter garbage with absolutely no value other than fake sensational headlines meant to influence those who lack the capacity to read past them.

[welfare]

How many days does trump have to return the 30 million doses he bought?
Is the return policy simular to Costco?


So how much exactly did he pay?
You've mentioned it multiple times. I'm sure you can answer that question.

[whitev70r]

Whether you think it is wacked or not, testing is a lot closer to home!

Controversial malaria drug hydroxychloroquine tested at B.C. seniors’ home

https://globalnews.ca/news/6744766/hydroxychloroquine-lynn-valley-care-centre-coronavirus/

[SkinnyPupp]

Oh I was wondering if I would have to discuss Dr Raoult some time. He's been known about for years, so it's fun to see him in headlines lately.

I'll get around to doing a post later, maybe tomorrow. Need to have the most credible sources (some people care about that)

But aside from all that, it may or may not yet prove to be an effective treatment. But if he says it is, that's about the same as my cat saying it is. Wait for real science to say so.

I don't think the media is trying to make the treatment look bad. On the other hand, the bias we see from people who so desperately want it to pan out well, just so they can say "Trump was right", is kind of funny to me

[mikemhg]

Oh I was wondering if I would have to discuss Dr Raoult some time. He's been known about for years, so it's fun to see him in headlines lately.

I'll get around to doing a post later, maybe tomorrow. Need to have the most credible sources (some people care about that)

But aside from all that, it may or may not yet prove to be an effective treatment. But if he says it is, that's about the same as my cat saying it is. Wait for real science to say so.

I don't think the media is trying to make the treatment look bad. On the other hand, the bias we see from people who so desperately want it to pan out well, just so they can say "Trump was right", is kind of funny to me

I'm finding that so bizarre to witness as well. I've never seen a group of people become to obsessed with a particular drug before.

There are other trials of treatments along with antibody testing that is being conducted which also looks promising, but yet you don't hear these guys even mentioning that.

Their entire focus is on hydroxychloroquine, simply because Trump and their media has been pushing it so hard.

It's this odd desperation to cling to anything he says to prove him right, to abrogate him from any negative responsibility he carries to which he's handled this whole pandemic.

I've never seen the bar lowered to such degree for one man.

[welfare]

I'm finding that so bizarre to witness as well. I've never seen a group of people become to obsessed with a particular drug before.

There are other trials of treatments along with antibody testing that is being conducted which also looks promising, but yet you don't hear these guys even mentioning that.

Their entire focus is on hydroxychloroquine, simply because Trump and their media has been pushing it so hard.

It's this odd desperation to cling to anything he says to prove him right, to abrogate him from any negative responsibility he carries to which he's handled this whole pandemic.

I've never seen the bar lowered to such degree for one man.

You mean the antibody testing i mentioned two pages ago? That Canada still hasn't approved? LUL

Name one other treatment being tested on the same scale as hydroxychloroquine.
There are clinical trials taking place all across the globe. And it's not "because Trump is pushing it". It's because it's shown more promise than any other treatment so far.

[mikemhg]

You mean the antibody testing i mentioned two pages ago? That Canada still hasn't approved? LUL

Name one other treatment being tested on the same scale as hydroxychloroquine.
There are clinical trials taking place all across the globe. And it's not "because Trump is pushing it". It's because it's shown more promise than any other treatment so far.

That's great. Keep fighting the good fight for your man there.

I've told you before, I have zero interest in debating with you on an online forum any longer, I don't see you as carrying a legitimate opinion.

You are a troll right down to your username, any rebuttal one would make to you will not change your mind, this is your online character.

Maybe you can try the drug yourself and give us some direct feedback? Like Trump said, what do you have to lose?

[Manic!]

You mean the antibody testing i mentioned two pages ago? That Canada still hasn't approved? LUL

Name one other treatment being tested on the same scale as hydroxychloroquine.
There are clinical trials taking place all across the globe. And it's not "because Trump is pushing it". It's because it's shown more promise than any other treatment so far.


From Capital Daily: Island hospitals join global COVID-19 cure testing

Local patients will be asked to test a drug cocktail meant to treat the virus

COVID-19 patients at Royal Jubilee and Nanaimo Regional, Vancouver Island’s two pandemic response hubs, will be asked to participate in a two year voluntary study assessing drug treatments for the disease. Led by the World Health Organization, the study is spanning 90 countries and will gauge the effectiveness of three drugs; Kaletra, a drug used to treat HIV, Remdesivir, an antiviral and hydroxychloroquine, a malaria treatment that was controversially pushed as a possible cure by US President Donald Trump. There are currently only 5 COVID-positive hospitalized Islanders, which may limit the study significantly.

April 23/2020

[hud 91gt]

The last sentence is the best part.

[StylinRed]

The reporter that was chasing the story in wuhan, and went missing, has reappeared two months later, says he was quarantined due to being in sensitive areas...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-52392762

[welfare]

From Capital Daily: Island hospitals join global COVID-19 cure testing

Local patients will be asked to test a drug cocktail meant to treat the virus

COVID-19 patients at Royal Jubilee and Nanaimo Regional, Vancouver Island’s two pandemic response hubs, will be asked to participate in a two year voluntary study assessing drug treatments for the disease. Led by the World Health Organization, the study is spanning 90 countries and will gauge the effectiveness of three drugs; Kaletra, a drug used to treat HIV, Remdesivir, an antiviral and hydroxychloroquine, a malaria treatment that was controversially pushed as a possible cure by US President Donald Trump. There are currently only 5 COVID-positive hospitalized Islanders, which may limit the study significantly.

April 23/2020
Can you show me multiple testing and trials done, with positive results, of either of those two?
Or hundreds of physicians testimony in favor of them?


That's great. Keep fighting the good fight for your man there.

I've told you before, I have zero interest in debating with you on an online forum any longer, I don't see you as carrying a legitimate opinion.

You are a troll right down to your username, any rebuttal one would make to you will not change your mind, this is your online character.

Maybe you can try the drug yourself and give us some direct feedback? Like Trump said, what do you have to lose?

Yet you still replied.
I really don't care that Trump keeps spouting about it. In fact, i kinda wish he wouldn't so the media might actually report honestly on it.
I care whether or not it works. And so far there have been a lot of positive results that have been discounted due to technicalities.
If it works, great. I think we should all be happy about that. Regardless of who's endorsing it.

[mikemhg]

More bad news from CNN about this nasty bug. Covid 19 can cause strokes in healthy people in their 30s and 40s:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/22/health/strokes-coronavirus-young-adults/index.html

The new coronavirus appears to be causing sudden strokes in adults in their 30s and 40s who are not otherwise terribly ill, doctors reported Wednesday.

They said patients may be unwilling to call 911 because they have heard hospitals are overwhelmed by coronavirus cases.
There's growing evidence that Covid-19 infection can cause the blood to clot in unusual ways, and stroke would be an expected consequence of that.


Dr. Thomas Oxley, a neurosurgeon at Mount Sinai Health System in New York, and colleagues gave details of five people they treated. All were under the age of 50, and all had either mild symptoms of Covid-19 infection or no symptoms at all.

"The virus seems to be causing increased clotting in the large arteries, leading to severe stroke," Oxley told CNN.

"Our report shows a seven-fold increase in incidence of sudden stroke in young patients during the past two weeks. Most of these patients have no past medical history and were at home with either mild symptoms (or in two cases, no symptoms) of Covid," he added.
Doctors try to untangle why they're seeing 'unprecedented' blood clotting among Covid-19 patients


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is the stuff that pisses me off in this forum, and in other threads/reddits I've been following.

Too many armchair idiots, Hondaracer I'm not trying to target your reply to this post, but you had indicated "Nah" after he Pastarocket made this post.

You claim it's bullshit because it's "CNN".

This is the fucking environment Trump and his lackeys have created with this whole "fake news" agenda. People question facts and reality, they question legitimate media, and I'm tired of it.

As I've said in previous posts, my spouse works in the actual COVID unit at VGH. Guess what? All of her patients are having issues with blood clotting.

There are 3 specific blood tests they have found abnormally elevated in almost all positive covid patients

Ferritin - This is a component of iron. It is thought to be elevated as a result of a cytokine storm response in the body. A cytokine storm occurs when our immune system goes into overdrive and releases too many antibodies which ends up harming our organs. It can lead to kidney damage, liver damage, and several other things.

C-reactive protein - This is released when there is inflammation in the body.

D-dimer - This is indicative of clots in the body. Their covid patients have extremely high D-dimer values which puts them at a higher risk of deep vein thrombosis (clots in the legs) and pulmonary embolism (clots in the lungs).

All of their covid patients are on an anticoagulant injection twice a day. Since these patients have new issues with their kidneys (see cytokine storm) they have needed dialysis. Dialysis techs have complained of their lines becoming plugged due to abnormally thick blood.

They watch these 3 bloodwork results in the hospital. If they trend down that is a sign a patient is recovering. If they trend up that puts the patient in a danger zone and they most likely end up in ICU.

This is the reason that one Canadian actor (whose name has escaped me) had to have his leg amputated after contracting COVID.

There are too many armchair quarterbacks both on this forum, and on the rest of the internet spewing their idiotic views without having any medical knowledge or background.

We are setting a very dangerous precedent if we continue in this "fake news" trend, where we live in a world where we doubt actual facts both from the scientific and medical community simply because some asshat decides that over half of the media is simply fake.

I've become extremely worried what type of future we will have if we continue in that mentality.

Once again I'm not targeting you Honda, but I'm tired of people pretending they know it all, when they have no clue at all.

[Blah_Teggie]

FYI. Anyone living by 2 road and Blundell. The Shoppers there has Lysol wipes for sale. Max one per customer. This was bout half an hour ago. I saw maybe 2 dozen there. It’s not on the shelf’s. It’s behind where the cashiers work.

[Bouncing Bettys]

mikemgh, I was just thinking the same about you.

[Hondaracer]

CNN creates their own environment where you lean towards doubt before believing their reporting.

I’m not saying they are wrong or right but frankly all media are their own worst enemy and there are endless examples of this from all outlets. If CNN reports it I’m more likely to take the issue or subject matter seriously once additional outlets begin to report it or further studies arise. This isn’t some sort of trump fake news narrative. Virtually all news outlet report inaccurately and correct their reporting after the fact or attempt to adjust their reporting with follow ups. There’s never been a time before where the information being spewed out is more skewed by opinion and bias.

[Ch28]

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/04/22/elderly-man-assaulted-in-what-vpd-describe-as-racially-motivated-incident/

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/suspect-in-despicable-east-vancouver-attack-on-92-year-old-identified-1.4909788

VANCOUVER -- The suspect in an alleged assault on an elderly man at an East Vancouver convenience store has turned himself in to police, according to a man who identified himself as the suspect’s son.

CTV News has confirmed through multiple sources that the suspect recorded on store surveillance video on March 13 is named Jamie Bezanson.

Court records and public documents indicate Bezanson lives in East Vancouver and is a longshoreman.

The man identifying himself as the suspect’s son told CTV News his father had turned himself in to police, and was told there would be no charges.

Vancouver police late Thursday would only confirm they have not made any arrests but have identified a suspect.

A spokesperson for the BC Prosecution Service said they were not involved in the case.

[mikemhg]

Can you show me multiple testing and trials done, with positive results, of either of those two?
Or hundreds of physicians testimony in favor of them?




Yet you still replied.
I really don't care that Trump keeps spouting about it. In fact, i kinda wish he wouldn't so the media might actually report honestly on it.
I care whether or not it works. And so far there have been a lot of positive results that have been discounted due to technicalities.
If it works, great. I think we should all be happy about that. Regardless of who's endorsing it.

You're right I said I wouldn't respond to you, but a final point to this must be made.

You asked to know a drug that is being used to treat COVID patients with successful results. This is right from the horse's mouth. On the COVID unit at VGH they are using Tocilizumab, an immunosuppressive drug:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocilizumab

This is literally what they are using with success on for COVID patients at a world class hospital, right here where you call home.

They are not using hydroxychloroquine.

Get off the internet and out of your right-wing bubble for once and speak with actual people working within the actual field and on the front lines.

You are nothing but a keyboard warrior, and you bring nothing to the table.

[CorneringArtist]

How many idiots are going to end up in the hospital after injecting Lysol while standing in the sun in the next 72 hours?

[SkinnyPupp]

If Trump wasn't real his story would be one of the funniest comedies in history

Instead it's a tragedy

[Ludepower]

America officially passes 50k deaths and the wartime president has moved on from chloroquine to drinking lysol disinfectant. See you all at 75k deaths very soon.

[underscore]

Camera 2 of the cleaner/UV bit

https://i.imgur.com/03gBKqT.mp4

[StylinRed]

Jesus christ I know he wants to promote an image of the administration trying to find a solution, and are hard at work, but my fucking god, those aren't musings of a president they're of a madman

The doctors having a heart attack listening to that

[twitchyzero]

wreckless is an understatement
i feel sorry for Hillary for losing to the loose cannon
a superpower brought to its knees and the leader still in his former reality tv self

[welfare]

You're right I said I wouldn't respond to you, but a final point to this must be made.

You asked to know a drug that is being used to treat COVID patients with successful results. This is right from the horse's mouth. On the COVID unit at VGH they are using Tocilizumab, an immunosuppressive drug:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocilizumab

This is literally what they are using with success on for COVID patients at a world class hospital, right here where you call home.

They are not using hydroxychloroquine.

Get off the internet and out of your right-wing bubble for once and speak with actual people working within the actual field and on the front lines.

You are nothing but a keyboard warrior, and you bring nothing to the table.

Hey that's terrific, Mike.
I sincerely hope it's successful.

[welfare]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/coronavirus-conspiracy-theories-popular-canada-1.5542890

Respondents were presented with six conspiracy theories and asked if they believe any of them. According to Marie-Eve Carignan, an associate professor at the University of Sherbrooke and one of the co-authors of the study, at least one in 10 respondents believed at least one of the six theories.


She cautioned that the findings of the study are preliminary, and that team will have the results of a survey of 1,500 Canadians two weeks from now. Eventually their work will expand to include six countries.

Carignan said the six theories were:

-My government is hiding important information about coronavirus.
-Coronavirus was intentionally made in a lab.
-Coronavirus was manufactured in a lab by mistake.
-The pharmaceutical industry is involved in the spread of the coronavirus.
-Coronavirus medication already exists.
-There's a link between 5G technology and the coronavirus.

One of the most popular conspiracy theories of the pandemic is that the coronavirus that causes COVID-19 was genetically engineered in a laboratory, possibly as a biological weapon. While just over half of those surveyed said they believe the virus occurred naturally, nearly a third said they believe it was created in a lab.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/3047646/no-link-seafood-market-first-case-china-coronavirus-chinese


The first person known to have been infected by the Wuhan coronavirus had never visited the city’s seafood market – regarded as the epicentre of the outbreak – according to Chinese researchers, who also called for extra precautions against airborne transmission of the disease between humans.
The researchers, seven of whom work at Wuhan’s Jinyintan hospital, designated for patients with the illness, revealed on Friday in The Lancet medical journal that symptoms of the new disease were first reported on December 1 – much earlier than the Wuhan government’s initial announcement on December 31 of 27 cases of the pneumonia-like infection.
According to the report, the first patient had no exposure to the Huanan seafood market which was shut down on January 1 over fears – later confirmed – that the new virus was linked to its trade in wild animals. The researchers added that none of the patient’s family had developed fever or any respiratory symptoms. There was also no epidemiological link between the first patient and the later cases, they found.

[!LittleDragon]

Engineered bioweapon? That doesn't even make sense. If that was the intent, wouldn't you create something that kills more than just the weak and elderly? That just leaves the strong and pissed off as survivors.

[Alpine]

Wait until you learn that disinfectants are commonly used in vaccines.

[mikemhg]

Hey that's terrific, Mike.
I sincerely hope it's successful.

No you don't :lol

This has always been only about politics for you.

If the world was run by people like you, we'd be drinking bleach by now.

[Ch28]

No you don't :lol

This has always been only about politics for you.

If the world was run by people like you, we'd be drinking bleach by now.

https://i.imgur.com/3qMlJQn.gif

[welfare]

No you don't :lol

This has always been only about politics for you.

If the world was run by people like you, we'd be drinking bleach by now.

You're absolutely right, Mike.
I pray that it fails miserably so more people will die, the economy remains shutdown, and i can stay locked in my house for as long as possible.
All because you don't share my political beliefs FeelsBadMan

[pastarocket]

Maybe Trump meant to say “Diet Fresca”
instead of disinfectant. :lawl:

Hilarious video.


https://twitter.com/digg/status/1253738718281830401?s=21


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SkinnyPupp]

Most of the conspiracy theories are absurd, but I would entertain the possibility of a lab accident of some sort, just because of the proximity of it all. Not that I "think that's what happened" but it's definitely higher than a 0% possibility (which is where the others lie for me)

[welfare]

Most of the conspiracy theories are absurd, but I would entertain the possibility of a lab accident of some sort, just because of the proximity of it all. Not that I "think that's what happened" but it's definitely higher than a 0% possibility (which is where the others lie for me)

I'd agree.
I mean it didn't originate at the market according to the first known cases.
And they scrubbed the market clean immediately, destroying any evidence that could corroborate that story.
Aaaaand it's China. So.. Yea.

[SkinnyPupp]

Yeah when China admits something that would cause them to "lose face" (something they avoid at all costs, often to the detriment of mankind), then scrubs it down immediately and then says "actually it wasn't that" it definitely raises suspicion...

BUT

Most likely they just flipped their stance after scrubbing simply going back to the "try not to lose face at all costs" thing, and the lab being there is just a coincidence.

[Hehe]

Engineered bioweapon? That doesn't even make sense. If that was the intent, wouldn't you create something that kills more than just the weak and elderly? That just leaves the strong and pissed off as survivors.

From all the materials I've been reading, discarding those based solely on assumptions, and focus only on those with some scientific basis and/or some previous published works out of the lab, this is the closest theory:

The P4 lab in Wuhan was indeed working with coronavirus at some point in time(the virus genre as a whole, not this virus in specific, which was fine... that's the purpose of highly secure labs anyway to study the very worst stuff known to men). Although the exact intent of such research is not known, the best (and least evil) assumption was that they were studying the capability of the virus being transmitted and how to effectively counter them.

Now, if I have to inject my own conspiracy theory into... it's that some work from the lab leaked somehow (not suppose to happen for P4 lab, as the design supposed to be watertight but did anyway) and it evolved among animals from something man-made into the "naturally occurring" version that we know today.

HOWEVER, the part that pissed me off the most is not that China was working on this. Something like this could be a human error, oversight or whatever... and one can count that as bad luck. The part that pissed me off, and the part that I think we should hold China accountable for is the FACT that they try to HIDE/BURY this thing for as long as they could and go so far as saying that preventative measures such as travel restriction to China is DISCRIMINATION. I'm like... WHAT THE BLOODY FUCK? The potential of the virus... probably unknown to CCP back then (I'd give them benefit of doubt), alone should justify taking such preventative measures when people lives are at stake. It showed CLEARLY that CCP cared NOTHING about human lives but just their face and their benefits.

That, plus the incompetence of the CCP leadership, is what got the entire world into this shit right now.

When other countries try to sue China for negligence on the virus, Chinese spokesperson had the audacity to say something along the line that HIV or H1N1 is everywhere and everyone should sue US instead.

I'm like really... HIV traces back to Africa as origin and US was only the first place that properly identified it. Furthermore, US NEVER tried to bury those viruses and the severity of them. In fact, they are the country that has the most research done on them. Give me one case of US negligence on those virus because I really have hard time finding any scientific papers on it other than some opinions.

In short... I'd quote the British interim PM... "we can't pretend that nothing happened after this". If JT et al. are going to let China go easy on this, I'm sure I'd do everything in my power to make my voice heard. I've already written to my local MP. And really... any politician who don't pursue the responsibility of this to the limit where our law permits, I am sure I ain't voting that person and will do my share of effort to make sure they don't get elected. I don't like conservative one bit. But anything goes to get to the bottom of this. Because god knows if we, either as a humankind or just people in my family can survive the next screwup.

[welfare]

I believe by hiding it, China did in fact break international laws which were legislated after the original SARS breakout to protect the world from this very scenario.

[Gh0stRider]

we're throwing these back at work

https://i.postimg.cc/cHZFrYzg/Whats-App-Image-2020-04-24-at-6-04-37-PM.jpg

[danned]

my hands can consume those?

[Bouncing Bettys]

To follow up the other decent take from Bill Maher on wet markets:
https://youtu.be/-OoT2OZWCOI

[SkinnyPupp]

Cowards

https://twitter.com/stuartlauscmp/status/1253768001272365059

[320icar]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/mobile/000/022/017/thumb.jpg

[Bouncing Bettys]

The EU can fuck right off.
https://twitter.com/CP24/status/1253992611943153664

[twitchyzero]

feels surreal to not have seen a single plane in the sky for weeks

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/branded_news/D1CB/production/_111470735_060837214.jpg

[hud 91gt]

?? Planes are still flying, but seeing fleets parked it pretty wild.

[Hondaracer]

feels surreal to not have seen a single plane in the sky for weeks

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/1024/branded_news/D1CB/production/_111470735_060837214.jpg

The flight path down marine is still pretty busy. Mostly wide bodies

[welfare]

Looks like the teleprompter got stuck on repeat again

https://twitter.com/i/status/1253436206941196288

[StylinRed]

Seems like our daily cases of ppl contracting covid has been increasing? 95ppl in the last 24, and wasn't it 70something the day before

[EuterVanWasser]

It spikes any time they uncover a 'cluster' it seems.. jails, seniors housing, chicken plants.. etc.

[Hondaracer]

It’s mainly due to those community cases though in the prisons and the Chicken factories

[GLOW]

Looks like the teleprompter got stuck on repeat again

https://twitter.com/i/status/1253436206941196288

sounds like he's pulling a JT when asked hard questions in the house Kappa

[cafe22]

Do you guys think the WFH situation will extend until June?

If that's the case I might splurge on a better monitor and keyboard setup. Or else I think I'm going to have crippling arthritis from using my laptop keyboard everyday.

[Teriyaki]

Do you guys think the WFH situation will extend until June?

If that's the case I might splurge on a better monitor and keyboard setup. Or else I think I'm going to have crippling arthritis from using my laptop keyboard everyday.

Probably best directed at the Working From Home thread, but I'd say yes. Its not like you won't be using your computer after WFH stops anyways. Small investment for something you use everyday :thumbs:

[whitev70r]

I think once things relax, it will be gradual. Workers will take turns going to office like if your last name is A-L gets Mon, Wed, Fri and M-Z gets Tue and Thu ... then switch next month. SD is going to be part of the new normal. So yes, go and get yourself a monitor and keyboard ... and a nice chair too.

[320icar]

i really hope that the working from home thing continues. im a low level labourer so i have to go to work regardless, but the traffic on the streets is significantly less, accidents are down, road rage incidents are down, parents can spend more time at home with their children/families, pollution from driving is down etc.

WFH is not the hero we deserved, but the one we needed

[mikemhg]

Our company has extended the complete WFH until June, at the minimum.

I believe most offices will be doing the same, if not further. Most companies don't want the negative PR if COVID starts spreading through their staff due to loosening restrictions too quickly.

I think you're fine to upgrade.

[whitev70r]

Earlier, there were some discussion on the cost of lives and I recall some keyboard warriors spewing out hot air. You can tell they never had to deal with a patient, let alone 2 or 3 at the same time. These are very legit questions when there is limited resources.

So how do you decide between treating a 55 yo with Covid19 vs. a 55 yo with cancer who may go blind if he/she doesn't get treatment?

Many operating rooms are empty as patients wait in pain after surgeries cancelled

https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coronavirus/many-operating-rooms-are-empty-as-patients-wait-in-pain-after-surgeries-cancelled-1.4910699

TORONTO -- As some hospital operating rooms sit empty in anticipation of more COVID-19 patients, Canadians with postponed elective surgeries are forced to wait in pain.

Robin McGee of Port Williams, N.S., developed cataracts on both her eyes due to cancer treatment. The condition is reversible with surgery and she had scheduled an operation on March 25, but it was postponed indefinitely due to the COVID-19 outbreak.

“Left untreated, I'll be too blind to drive in six months and completely blind in 12 months,” she told CTV News.

[320icar]

Is there a phone number to call to rat out companies not adhering to social distancing

[mikemhg]

Is there a phone number to call to rat out companies not adhering to social distancing

811.

[Manic!]

Quebec wants to open day cares and elementary schools May 11th. Would you send your kids back to school?

[winson604]

Quebec wants to open day cares and elementary schools May 11th. Would you send your kids back to school?

I wouldn't even if it were here let alone in Quebec that's crazy talk imo

[RRxtar]

Wonder how many people who read Anne Frank in grade 8 would support a "immunity passport" and reporting their neighbours.

[welfare]

Premier Legault is apparently proposing some form of immunity to lift restrictions, at odds with Tam's recommendations.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/herd-immunity-should-not-be-supported-tam-says-1.5545332

I guess if the development of antibodies and immunity isn't certain, that must mean the possibility of a vaccine ever being created is also uncertain.

[quasi]

Is there a phone number to call to rat out companies not adhering to social distancing

811.

I wasn't sure so asked my wife she said please don't call 811 for that.

[spoon.ek9]

USA surpassed 1,000,000 cases today. Don't know if anyone noticed.

There's been a lot of crap in this thread the past few days that I've wanted to reply to but I'm honestly sick of trying to right the wrongs in here sometimes. Plus, I'm in the middle of a 7 day week so maybe I'll address it later. I think the vast majority of us understand the gravity and severity of this situation.

[tegra7]

South Surrey Walmart employee tested positive for covid 19.

[6793026]

Many operating rooms are empty as patients wait in pain after surgeries cancelled

“Left untreated, I'll be too blind to drive in six months and completely blind in 12 months,” she told CTV News.

For those who are going to go blind / cancer, those are probably essential, and are still going to go ahead. My friend Walter had to get a stent put in and it was considered "mild" at 50-70% blocked. He got it done at Richmond hospital; while it's empty, it's still happening.

[welfare]

Wow. What treatments will they think of (censoring) next? LUL

https://images.wsj.net/im-180715?width=620&size=1.5

https://www.wsj.com/articles/an-experimental-ultraviolet-light-treatment-for-covid-19-takes-political-heat-11588005938


I ran an obscure pharmaceutical company until a few days ago. Then we got famous. Early in the Covid-19 pandemic, Aytu BioScience made a commitment to find ways to help. One of those ways came through our newly formed relationship with a prominent Los Angeles hospital.

On April 20 we put out a press release titled “Aytu BioScience Signs Exclusive Global License with Cedars-Sinai for Potential Coronavirus Treatment.” The treatment is called Healight, and it was developed by research physicians at the hospital’s Medically Associated Science and Technology Program. The technology, which has been in development since 2016, uses ultraviolet light as an antimicrobial and is a promising potential treatment for Covid-19.

Aytu and Cedars-Sinai have engaged with the Food and Drug Administration to pursue a rapid path to human use through an Emergency Use Authorization. But hardly anyone noticed—until Thursday, when President Trump mused, “. . . supposing you brought the light inside the body . . .”


My team and I knew the president’s comments could trigger a backlash against the idea of UV light as a treatment, which might hinder our ability to get the word out. We decided to create a YouTube account, upload a video animation we had created, and tweet it out. It received some 50,000 views in 24 hours.

Then YouTube took it down. So did Vimeo. Twitter suspended our account. The narrative changed from whether UV light can be used to treat Covid-19 to “Aytu is being censored.”

[underscore]

feels surreal to not have seen a single plane in the sky for weeks

There are definitely still planes in the sky, my toddler points out every single one :lol.

[twitchyzero]

sorry clearly haven't been out much, which is odd because i live not far from se marine dr but can't say i've seen/heard anything in a long time

i was casually browsing flights to asia out of curiosity and many nonstops have disappeared and with connecting flights starting over $1500

airlines have grounded anywhere from 30-100% of fleet

[320icar]

Edit: complaining out of anger but probably not the smart thing to do

[Manic!]

Wow. What treatments will they think of (censoring) next? LUL

https://images.wsj.net/im-180715?width=620&size=1.5

https://www.wsj.com/articles/an-experimental-ultraviolet-light-treatment-for-covid-19-takes-political-heat-11588005938

[/B]

Maybe trump should stick to the facts and not talk about things that are still in the testing stage.

Looks like kids are getting something called covid toes. https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/national/coronavirus/2020/4/27/1_4913770.html

[welfare]

Maybe trump should stick to the facts and not talk about things that are still in the testing stage.


Maybe these should be censored as well thenSeemsGood
https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/drugs-health-products/covid19-clinical-trials/list-authorized-trials.html

[Manic!]

Maybe these should be censored as well thenSeemsGood
https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/drugs-health-products/covid19-clinical-trials/list-authorized-trials.html

Clinical trials listed on a government website and proclaimed as a potential miracle cure by the P.M.


I also don't see lysol listed anywhere.

[ilovebacon]

After listening to a podcast from Joe Rogan, his guest mentioned about how another city has went locked down again in China..

Don't know how credible this news article is.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8248709/China-puts-city-10-million-lockdown-detecting-new-outbreak.html

[TOS'd]

12 days since his last post. Either something has happened to him or he is too ashamed and just lurks while being signed out.

https://i.imgur.com/KGCpzjpl.png

That's the question I answer yes
Are you experiencing any of the following:

Cough
Fever
Muscle aches
Fatigue
Sore Throat
Headache
Loss of appetite
Chills
Runny nose or nasal congestion
Nausea and vomiting
Diarrhea
Loss of sense of smell/taste

Coz yes I did have a fever but all the other questions is none. It can just mean you have a cold or even if you eat something bad have a diarrhea. So does this mean anyone who have these symptoms now need to self isolate 10 days according to BC COVID-19 Symptom Self-Assessment Tool? What if you slept on the wrong side and now you have muscle pain or stay up all night and watch TV and now you feel tired.

I made the wrong judgement call when I had the fever earlier which is most likely due to not wearing enough when I go out. On top after I saw the news that at a Wal mart where an employee got infected I immediately though I have it as well. But going back time that employee haven't worked there since March 20 and when I had the fever it was past 14 days when he worked. I have had no fever, coughing, sore throat, any symptoms since the fever went away on the 2nd day after I got it.

If anyone wants to try just go to https://bc.thrive.health/ and the questions they ask aren't even that detail enough to tell the difference if you have a common cold or if you have the CoVID19. Just try answering yes to any of the questions and it will ask you to self isolate. The person on the end of 811 were just asking the exact same question didn't offer to ask other follow up questions.

[Jmac]

Hopefully nothing bad has happened to him.

[welfare]

Clinical trials listed on a government website and proclaimed as a potential miracle cure by the P.M.


I also don't see lysol listed anywhere.

I guess you don't know much about how vaccines are made.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/05/120529133843.htm

Trump is the greatest troll this side of the milky way.
And the lamestreams just keep taking the bait :lol
Don't worry though. He was just being 'sarcastic'. His proceeding press releases will only contain depressing, and blown out models as a segue to "the new normal" that their health officials made no attempt to divert FailFish

[welfare]

Hopefully nothing bad has happened to him.

Well he probably bailed from rs after getting roasted for three pages straight for being foolish enough to admit to the high crime of getting groceries while having a cough (and likely wearing his mask).