[SSM_DC5]

So, no dog walks with my parents? Can someone give me a firm yes or no, if the immediate household persons applies to both indoor and outdoor, or only indoor.

Exactly lol. It’s unclear so everyone I know is all ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

No one can give you a firm yes or no because no where in the order does it talk about walking a dog.

It's up to your interpretation what it means when the PHO states "Socialize only with those in your immediate household. No gatherings of any size."

sauce: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/safety/emergency-preparedness-response-recovery/covid-19-provincial-support/lower-mainland

[SkinnyPupp]

So, no dog walks with my parents? Can someone give me a firm yes or no, if the immediate household persons applies to both indoor and outdoor, or only indoor.
If you live with them yes, otherwise no. Use Skype for a couple weeks

[twitchyzero]

It frustrates me that masks are still not mandated; even though I know even if it is, not everyone is going to wear it.
But I do know people who are not wearing it is because it's not mandatory/required.


Dr. Henry: hey no gatherings at home*

*place of worship, your kids school cafeteria and gyms are :eekthumb:...street parties let's not address those

bring on the New Zealand style containment...not this half-assed 'pretty please' request/recommendation that's gotten us to daily 500+

we could've have hunkered down for a few weeks, but nah it's better we drag it out for a year or more; wonder what's more cost effective?

[JesseBlue]

I agree. People have so much flippin excuse thinking they're better than others.

Weak leadership couple with entitled bunch gets us to where we are now.

[chinook79]

As someone who is still furloughed because PHO won't give green light to reopen my work, their half ass response to refuse to take hard measure to reduce spread really pisses me off. They refuse to take hard measure yet still won't give green light to reopen some of the businesses.

[AzNightmare]

I should stay off facebook. Reading some of the comments make my head hurt.

Apparently the virus is still a hoax so the government can control us...

:derp:

[JDMDreams]

^^ just like how Donald Trump won the election. And yes thanks Hogan and the NDP

[mikemhg]

I can't believe I'm righting to fall on the "right wing" side of all of this.

My local hot yoga studio I've been going to for a decade now has closed down completely due to COVID. I've seen so many of my clients whittle down their employee count over the last few months here, most notably Cathay Pacific. The HK protests, followed by COVID has pretty much decimated their Canadian operations. Another client of mine the BC Lions, some guys on the team haven't been paid in almost a year now.

We're privileged to work in our white collar jobs from home, so many of us on Revscene have been economically unaffected by these shutdowns. One needs to show empathy to those that have, I keep saying it, but we need to plan for some type of functioning future with this virus.

[iwantaskyline]

If we want to plan for a "functioning" future with this virus and not free for all it like America there need's to be major advancements in testing.

Obviously if there's a major breakthrough with a vaccine that won't be necessary but if we want some semblance of normality there needs to be a quick Covid test businesses and establishments can use to allow people to enter their premises.

[320icar]

the problem is moreso with peoples way of life, not businesses. i mean... a hot yoga studio or a spin class *shouldn't* be open right now, especially if droplet transmission is an extremely high risk. but i mean what % of the pop actually does hot yoga.... but the big "white tent" weddings, kids going to parties, dumbass white people holding rallies, THATS THE PROBLEM.

wasn't it shown that sit down restaurants were actually quite safe, yet pubs/clubs that inherently promote movement, socialization and often lack of good judgement were the big risk. but aren't they all clumped together and still open?

i dunno im just rambling. we need to hand out big ass $2000 fines for the people blatantly disobeying. police/bylaw judgement can be used i think. some people deserve warnings. others deserve jailtime

[twitchyzero]

simply look at some of the success stories or nations that haven't completely lost control

how did they manage days weeks months without new cases and/or flare-ups? what are we not doing? are we less funded? maybe it's un-Canadian to have enforcement?

BC rejected the health canada contact tracing app few months ago, so what's our strategy instead? not posting school exposures in the VCH area without identifying names because confidentiality...?

just days ago they rejected the idea of region-specific measures so at least there's some progress; but for every day we're sitting on an idea we're losing a few lives, a handful more hospital admittance and hundreds and hundreds to trace taxing manpower-- so it's time to call this reactive approach as grossly insufficient

[AzNightmare]

We're privileged to work in our white collar jobs from home, so many of us on Revscene have been economically unaffected by these shutdowns. One needs to show empathy to those that have, I keep saying it, but we need to plan for some type of functioning future with this virus.

You never know... I was working at a smaller firm that didn't even have the infrastructure to WFH. People were being laid off left and right and I ditched the sinking ship before they had a chance to let me go too. It was looking pretty bad to the point the boss was really trying to keep the staff busy but there was really nothing to do.

Then I worked for a large global firm, and within 2 months, slashed my entire department. A ton of people including my recruiter, supervisor, and his supervisor all let go. It made me realize really how much of a statistic you really are when you're in such a big firm.

:pokerface:

I just recently started working again last month. What a year... 3 places in one year, just gotta keep trucking along and never give up hope even if you lose your job.

[TouringTeg]

A little clarification of the restrictions courtesy of Ministry of Health. I think they to be clear in their communication on Monday.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7450328/lower-mainland-covid-order-clarified/

[AzNightmare]

Edit: nvm, above post has info that superseded my post.

[chinook79]

You never know... I was working at a smaller firm that didn't even have the infrastructure to WFH. People were being laid off left and right and I ditched the sinking ship before they had a chance to let me go too. It was looking pretty bad to the point the boss was really trying to keep the staff busy but there was really nothing to do.

Then I worked for a large global firm, and within 2 months, slashed my entire department. A ton of people including my recruiter, supervisor, and his supervisor all let go. It made me realize really how much of a statistic you really are when you're in such a big firm.

:pokerface:

I just recently started working again last month. What a year... 3 places in one year, just gotta keep trucking along and never give up hope even if you lose your job.

I actually wish they laid me off with so many others.. At least I would have clear mind on what actions I need to take next.
Being furloughed, yet I get consistent personal update from GM that I am valued and my job is secure as long as we can reopen the business. We were ready to reopen in the middle of summer, then the spike hit, everything postponed, same thing recent month.. now, there's no way we will be reopening in 2020.. maybe even 2021 is in the shadow unless vaccine is made available.


As for other nations with successful stories of containing corona virus, it will never work in North America. People have totally different mentality and expectations on privacy. Contact tracing in Canada is joke when compared to surveillance nations like S. Korea, Taiwan, etc.. Taiwan so close to epicenter, has had over 200+ days of no locally transmitted case, and S. Korea, with double the population of Canada, is taking a hard measures when they hit 100+ cases per day which is equivalent of 50 cases in Canada. Totally different mindsets, expectations and priorities..

[Mikoyan]

I was downtown today. Didn't know there was a weekly anti mask/lockdown protest march every Sunday on Robson.

Was checking on the rules too, here's what I found.

Question: Also while we are at it - outside can ppl, say, sit on a beach or walk with someone outside their safe six?

Answer: Under this new order, there are to be no social gatherings of any size with anyone other than your immediate household. That includes outdoors or in restaurants.

I know there has been some confusion on what immediate household means. To give some context, these would be the people you spend the most time with and are physically close to. These would be people who are part of your regular routine so household members, immediate family, a close friend or the people you have regular close contact with (for example a co-parent who lives outside the household)

Those who live alone cannot host gatherings, but can continue to see members of what they would consider their immediate household (as described above) at home, outside or at a restaurant.

Going for a walk is not considered a social gathering, but British Columbians need to be vigilant that a walk doesn't turn into a group of people meeting outside.

[SkinnyPupp]

I was downtown today. Didn't know there was a weekly anti mask/lockdown protest march every Sunday on Robson.

Was checking on the rules too, here's what I found.

Question: Also while we are at it - outside can ppl, say, sit on a beach or walk with someone outside their safe six?

Answer: Under this new order, there are to be no social gatherings of any size with anyone other than your immediate household. That includes outdoors or in restaurants.

I know there has been some confusion on what immediate household means. To give some context, these would be the people you spend the most time with and are physically close to. These would be people who are part of your regular routine so household members, immediate family, a close friend or the people you have regular close contact with (for example a co-parent who lives outside the household)

Those who live alone cannot host gatherings, but can continue to see members of what they would consider their immediate household (as described above) at home, outside or at a restaurant.

Going for a walk is not considered a social gathering, but British Columbians need to be vigilant that a walk doesn't turn into a group of people meeting outside.
So basically they're counting on people to just use their discretion to "do the right thing"

Good luck with that

[Razor Ramon HG]

A little clarification of the restrictions courtesy of Ministry of Health. I think they to be clear in their communication on Monday.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7450328/lower-mainland-covid-order-clarified/

I thought it was pretty straight-forward.

They just want people to stay the fuck home, to not meet people that you don't live with, and to only go out for essential needs and for work.

They can't address every situation, so this is where common sense needs to be used. Then again, look at where we are now assuming people had a brain to begin with.

4Head

[twitchyzero]

except it's not
immediate household would show an identical address on your ID
yet they're clarifying it now as:

These would be the people you spend the most time with and are physically close to. These would be people who are part of your regular routine so household members, immediate family, a close friend or the people you have regular close contact with (for example a co-parent who lives outside the household)

they gave a vague af order on a weekend and people just want confirmation so they dont get fined $200-2000

[SkinnyPupp]

Yeah the use of the term "household" is a pretty bad one to use when it can include "lives outside the household"

There must be a better term for "the people you have regular close contact with"

[The Producer]

There must be a better term for "the people you have regular close contact with"

ya - it's fuck-buddy

this is clearly written to address significant others that you don't live with.

trouble w writing these orders, is they have to be run through the political correctness filters.

[StylinRed]

Sounds like they just rephrased their last guideline of keeping things within your 6 person social circle, so ridiculous

[JesseBlue]

People of rs, please just stay home for 2 weeks if possible. I will miss my parents picking up my kids but I, for one, well take this sacrifice to keep them safe. Even the school system is screwed up with their no measure-measure. As teachers, they should force everyone to wear their masks properly but they'd rather tell them it's ok for their mask to be under their chin.

[SkinnyPupp]

ya - it's fuck-buddy

this is clearly written to address significant others that you don't live with.

trouble w writing these orders, is they have to be run through the political correctness filters.
You refer to your mom as fuck buddy if she doesn't live with you? :heckno:

[The Producer]

na - I'm not doing this. I've mostly managed to stay out of this thread until now.

stay safe everybody - and support small business as much as you're able.

[inv4zn]

Gonna be a bit of a devil's advocate, and opine that the vague wording of these orders (which is annoying, I agree) is done purposefully - to pander to the lowest IQ of the general public, which is rather quite large.

The amount of morons complaining about BC's previous "lockdown" - which wasn't really an actual lockdown, nobody was confined to their home ala China, etc. - is too great. The fact that these idiots are still allowed to gather every Sunday to protest nonsense is proof in itself that the government has no intention to 'control' anyone.

I think unless hospitals start filling with critical care patients, they'll stay on this sort of vague, stern warnings because if 70% of the population is able to function with some sort of cognitive reasoning and critical thinking skills, it'll be enough to once again get things in control. If the # of people gathering and transmitting this virus drops from, say, 50% of the population to 30%, it may be enough. Obviously I pulled those numbers out of my ass, but you get the point.

Mandating strict protocols has a small but real chance of backfiring as the idiots with the smallest intelligences will have the loudest voice, and it has the potential to 'swing' people who are otherwise generally following the rules.

[320icar]

The problem is the idiots that already disobey their most basic of orders are just going to also ignore these.

[Razor Ramon HG]

Pfizer, BioNTech say late-stage trial data shows Covid vaccine is more than 90% effective in preventing infection

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/09/covid-vaccine-pfizer-drug-is-more-than-90percent-effective-in-preventing-infection.html

[StylinRed]

They'll seek an emergency order to start using it in a months time..

I guess Trump was right lol

[hud 91gt]

The states will use it before we do. Apparently we have ordered massive freezers for storage.

[StylinRed]

Trudeau is making an announcement atm, saying we'll see the vaccine next year, and asking Canadians not to just start dismissing the covid threat

[Ludepower]

President Biden just gave a briefing about his covid action plan. So refreshing to hear a leader not downplay this virus.

[blkgsr]

President Biden just gave a briefing about his covid action plan. So refreshing to hear a leader not downplay this virus.

President-Elect

[Hondaracer]

In b4 Biden claims victory over covid as the vaccine is released

I’ve been getting emails in the past few weeks from restaurants and small business that I figured could weather the covid storm now offering discounts, free delivery, and even credit toward future purchases. I know this is not a normal time but something Anthony Bourdain wrote in one of his books always resonated with me, it’s along the lines of, as soon as you start straying away from the reason you opened, you’re finished.

Ie. your a fancy bar that aims for higher end clientele, yet you start having a $3 high ball happy hour, this signals the end. Feels like that is the way things are going for some of these businesses now.

All the while people with equity in a home, money in investments, and solid employment through companies that have been relatively unaffected have most likely substantially increased their overall wealth.

RIP small business.

[mikemhg]

Jesus so much doom and gloom in this thread :lol

Am I the only one that thinks it's quite an accomplishment that our medical technology and research has came this far? The Spanish Flu in the early 1900s decimated populations, and we had no cure for it.

As a society, we've been able to successfully accomplish a vaccine in under a year of this virus coming on the global stage.

That's an amazing accomplishment by the medical and pharmaceutical community, I'm very impressed.

[6793026]

I can't even get flu shot, what's the likelihood I'll get vaccine for COVID.

AND if you do get the vaccine, do you get to have a card saying "yes i'm immune" so i can now go party.... doubt it... w'ell see how this plays out.

[BIC_BAWS]

Wait times at COVID testing centers are going up. Drive through line up in Richmond was est 2hr. I arrived at 10:15, left at 12:30.

If you live close by one, chances are walk in is faster

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

[Spectre_Cdn]

Heh, there was was no lineup at the Richmond drive-in site when I drove by at noon yesterday.

[68style]

Ugh almost hit a thousand in 2 days :ahwow:

[pastarocket]

Horgan is putting the hammer down. The premier is making it clear that if our daily Covid cases do not go down substantially after two weeks, we are going to see even more restrictions.

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/11/09/copvid-19-stricter-restrictions-could-come-horgan/

FYI, it is the Diwali celebration this weekend for those that celebrate.

Please, wear a mask if you're outdoors and stay at home only with your own immediate family if you're not going out!

[CivicBlues]

^*Diwali

Lol Dhaliwal is a surname

[pastarocket]

^*Diwali

Lol Dhaliwal is a surname

Fixed. My bad. I clearly do not celebrate Diwali. LUL

[SkinnyPupp]

^*Diwali

Lol Dhaliwal is a surname
God it's been decades but I still remember the name Herb Dhaliwal for some reason... I would have been 14 when he was in office... Talk about making a mark! LUL

I just looked him up... He runs a marijuana farm now (https://www.ngbiomed.ca/) btw

[Hondaracer]

Bro Horgan and Bonnie don’t get between me and Diwali bro

[punkwax]

God it's been decades but I still remember the name Herb Dhaliwal for some reason... I would have been 14 when he was in office... Talk about making a mark! LUL

I just looked him up... He runs a marijuana farm now (https://www.ngbiomed.ca/) btw

lol.. Herb.

[CivicBlues]

Do Sikh's even celebrate Diwali? My impression is it's mostly a Hindu holiday. Not that I think it makes a huge difference but a large chunk of the Indo-Canadian is Sikh

[320icar]

https://i.chzbgr.com/full/9483562240/hC0170E65/directions-given-beforehand-lots-examples-but-pretty-soon-all-going-come-sit-back-down-on-carpet

[Obsideon]

Reading the new orders, my reaction was like "ok... ok ... ok ... wtf?"
So no gatherings of any kind, anywhere, .... UNLESS you are living alone then you can hang out with 1 or 2 other people" ...... what the flying fuck. Way to loosen up the largest loophole ... so now anyone that gets "caught" can all just say they live alone? How do they prove otherwise?
C'mon just LAY THE HAMMER down ... now we are worrying about single people getting lonely for 2 weeks? ... c'mon
So tired of this ... Bonnie...
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/wcK89DgXC50/maxresdefault.jpg

[Manic!]

Do Sikh's even celebrate Diwali? My impression is it's mostly a Hindu holiday. Not that I think it makes a huge difference but a large chunk of the Indo-Canadian is Sikh

Short answer yes.


https://www.sikhpa.com/thesikhdiwali/

Diwali is a significant religious festival in Sikhi, Hinduism and Jainism. It is also popularly known as the “Festival of Lights” and is a lunar-calendar based event that occurs between mid-October and mid-November.

Sikhs do not solely celebrate Diwali for the same reason as other faiths, although the story of Diwali is celebrated for its spiritual significance. Sikhs celebrate Bandi Shor Divas (often translated as Prisoner Release Day and spelled in different ways) on Diwali. This is the occasion of the return of the sixth Guru, Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji, who was freed from imprisonment in 1619. Guru Ji arrived home to His followers around the time of Diwali, which has long been a national holiday in India.

For the full story on why Guru Ji was imprisoned and the significance of Bandi Shor Divas, see here.

How do Sikhs celebrate Diwali?

Sikhs will go to the Gurdwara and remember Guru Ji through prayer and meditation. Sikhs will also light divas and set off fireworks, which is the traditional manner of celebration for the “festival of lights” and also has its own spiritual significance.



When Guru Hargobind Sahib Ji was granted release from prison, He refused to leave until 52 Hindu political prisoners were also released by Emperor Jahangir.

Jahangir agreed to release as many as could hold onto Guru Ji’s robe. For this reason, Guru Ji had a special robe made with 52 tails, allowing all the 52 political prisoners with Him. This is still available to see in a Gurdwara in Amritsar, Punjab.



https://sikhpa.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Guru-Hargobind-Ji-Coat.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyj7ZgZoopw

[underscore]

we need to plan for some type of functioning future with this virus.

Like fast contact tracing, wearing masks, maintaining physical distancing and cutting social interaction? Which have been proposed for months but too many people on this continent are too dense to figure it out.

- Help the economy
- Keep people alive
- Have more FrEeDoM

We can have 2 of those at most, and it's pretty tedious seeing people who can't put out the simplest bit of effort wrecking any chance of the first 2 for everyone else.

[SkinnyPupp]

Like fast contact tracing, wearing masks, maintaining physical distancing and cutting social interaction? Which have been proposed for months but too many people on this continent are too dense to figure it out.
You pretty much just listed Biden's plan for the virus LUL (plus increased PPE manufacturing for hospitals)

[westopher]

Yeah well it’s been everyone’s “plan” here in Canada but you need to implement it. It’s not going well because of the freedumb idiots.

[pastarocket]

I heard on News1130 radio this morning that some government officials in other provinces are discussing the possibility of imposing curfews in order to try to flatten the curve.

-brings back memories of a curfew that my aunt, uncle, and some of American cousin faced this year in Arizona:

Emergency Declaration, Curfew In Place
News Release May 31, 2020
Declaration Also Authorizes An Expanded National Guard Mobilization

PHOENIX

Curfew In Place
News ReleaseMay 31, 2020
Declaration Also Authorizes An Expanded National Guard Mobilization

PHOENIX — Governor Doug Ducey today issued a statewide Declaration of Emergency, including putting in place a curfew starting at 8:00 p.m. tonight. The curfew is in effect from 8:00 p.m. until 5:00 a.m. and shall expire on Monday, June 8, at 5:00 a.m. unless further extended.

Do you think Dr. Bonnie will advise Horgan to impose a curfew if our daily Covid cases do not go down substantially after two weeks?

[JDMDreams]

Impose a curfew during dawali :considered:

[Liquid_o2]

Would curfews get people to stop hanging out? My sister lives in Surrey and she mentioned that so many people she knows are still getting together with family, cousins, kids are having play dates, going out for dinner - majority is disregarding the mandates from Dr. Henry. South of the Fraser is a disaster.

Rather than a curfew I would prefer a blanket mask mandate for Metro Vancouver, coupled with large fines for hosting gatherings, attending gatherings, etc. Just not sure how it would be monitored...

[CivicBlues]

what good is a mask mandate going to do when people keep meeting indoors? Just fine the fuckers and start breaking down doors.

[Hondaracer]

What more do you want from masks? Wear them the second you leave your home?

Nah

[underscore]

Start requiring them in businesses? I've had to go in for car insurance twice, once I was there for an hour, and not one other person who came in had a mask on.

[mikemhg]

I truly think we need to think outside the box in an effort to "open up the economy".

There has to be a mitigated risk equation here. We have a universal system, and hospital can't turn away patients, that's the primary factor here. With that system in place, it's almost impossible to impose some type of waiver system in which you may take the mitigated risk say to attend a conference, or concert, if you contract COVID, your costs are out of pocket.

Yes, I know that would be almost impossible to impose, I just wish we could start thinking of other solutions here.

I was speaking with a collogue on this one, and I truly think the message has been poorly outlined to the public. We need to get more away from the doom and gloom "you're gonna die!" message, and break it down more simply.

Plain and simple, the primary reason for the restrictions is to ensure the hospitals don't get over inundated. That should be repeated full stop by public officials, yes I know it has been, but I don't think so effectively, really that's the No 1 issue, and biggest problem here, not the fact whether or not you'll die from COVID.

The stories I'm hearing from VGH, that's the biggest headache, our hospitals aren't built to properly deal with having to setup separate sealed areas for COVID patients, so when we get an influx like we're having right now, it creates total chaos. People don't seem to understand that basic fact, the media should do a better job to explain that, and show people what it looks like and the difficulties involved with having to move patients around in a hospital, creating new wards and such as a result.

Speaking of Diwali, apparently most of the COVID patients coming into VGH right now are in fact South Asian, fascinatingly enough.

[SkinnyPupp]

Letting people say fuck it, I'll let myself get the virus... AKA the Rogan Solution... The problem is these people are what cause it to spread rapidly and cause hospital overcrowding, which is actually the main issue (only because we don't know the long term effects yet).

[68style]

Speaking of Diwali, apparently most of the COVID patients coming into VGH right now are in fact South Asian, fascinatingly enough.

No mystery here, even my brown friends told me it’s business as usual for a lot of weddings, hosting events at houses in backyards and the weddings for 400+ illegally at farms in Abbotsford and the caterers don’t say shit cuz they need the business.

[punkwax]

https://globalnews.ca/news/7453469/coronavirus-mental-illness-study-lancet/

Nearly 20% of those who get the vid develop mental health issues. This scares the shit out of me. Strongly considering keeping my kids home from school again after somewhat reluctantly allowing them to go..

[westopher]

Ehhhhh like 1/4 people have mental health issue that are undiagnosed anyways. I wouldn’t get more worried about that. Anyone with any substantial trauma pretty much ends up with mental health issues. I think that statistic is the perfect example of correlation =/= causation.

[CivicBlues]

No mystery here, even my brown friends told me it’s business as usual for a lot of weddings, hosting events at houses in backyards and the weddings for 400+ illegally at farms in Abbotsford and the caterers don’t say shit cuz they need the business.

And yet skids are still spitting-on and sucker-punching elderly and small Asian women, it makes my skin fucking boil :flamemad:

[RRxtar]

The media and society making it out to be that anyone that gets covid is a horrible person who's going to be the cause of people dying, and then saying people who get covid will: habe symptoms for months, will have mental health issues, will never recover completely, etc. That on top of the already huge anxiety about society collapsing, people being destroyed financially, normal life being turned upside down, and all the doom and gloom in the world right now, which already has people struggling to hold it together. Its creation a ton of probably unnecessary fear around it so of course people are going to have anxiety if they catch it and since our society and populations are so shit at dealing with anxiety (look at prescription drug use) and we love labeling everything, they now have "mental health issues".

[68style]

And yet skids are still spitting-on and sucker-punching elderly and small Asian women, it makes my skin fucking boil :flamemad:

Drug addicts and morally obtuse people aren’t known for rational or logical thought unfortunately...

[BIC_BAWS]

Testing turnaround time seems to be very variable. Coworker got tested on Sunday at Richmond, got the negative test results today. I got my test done yesterday at Richmond, got my negative test results today.

Friend's sister got tested a few weeks ago and got it back in 4 days.

[SpeedStars]

^ how do you go about getting tested? Back in March/April I tried to get tested but they would not test me unless I exhibited all symptoms and had trouble breathing or chest pains.

[inv4zn]

The media and society making it out to be that anyone that gets covid is a horrible person who's going to be the cause of people dying, and then saying people who get covid will: habe symptoms for months, will have mental health issues, will never recover completely, etc. That on top of the already huge anxiety about society collapsing, people being destroyed financially, normal life being turned upside down, and all the doom and gloom in the world right now, which already has people struggling to hold it together. Its creation a ton of probably unnecessary fear around it so of course people are going to have anxiety if they catch it and since our society and populations are so shit at dealing with anxiety (look at prescription drug use) and we love labeling everything, they now have "mental health issues".

This is a double edged argument, full or extreme assumptive arguments. You can't lump everything into a bag and label it mental health issues.

First off, if you get covid, the people around you will judge you based on your actions/attitude. We had a positive case at work around April, and because everyone knew said person took things seriously and didn't do anything they weren't supposed to, everybody was supportive. If we knew said person was a shitstain that went clubbing every weekend, of course they will judge poorly upon their character.

Prolonged/life-long symptoms should be a motive to try and to everything you can do NOT get it in the first place, which doesn't add any more anxiety if one was careful anyway. And the YOLOers won't care to begin with.

6 months into the pandemic I think most people are realizing that it isn't the end of the world, and while I've been fortunate to keep working through it all, even those impacted financially are all realizing that at least there's a decent safety net in Canada (yay socialism!)

I get what you're saying, but the mental health piece is a separate matter IMO. If you were struggling with things before, then yes of course Covid probably didn't make things better. But it's a bit of a stretch to say Covid alone caused mental health issues.

[BIC_BAWS]

^ how do you go about getting tested? Back in March/April I tried to get tested but they would not test me unless I exhibited all symptoms and had trouble breathing or chest pains.

You have to lie about it quite frankly. I only did because my coworker's dad had contact with someone that tested positive.

I'm worried about false negative since I got my result back so fast.

[Hondaracer]

Nothin like lying about symptoms to clog up the system for the actual positive cases.

Coworkers dad being in contact with Somone who is positive is not an exposure event to you.

[threezero]

^ how do you go about getting tested? Back in March/April I tried to get tested but they would not test me unless I exhibited all symptoms and had trouble breathing or chest pains.

Sign up to work in films.

Somehow they are able to test every single one working on filmset with a week turnaround time to ensure they can be on set.

[twitchyzero]

does 14 day quarantine before 9/25 goes through EI sickness benefit? do i still need updated roe with internet self-reporting if it was only for those 2 weeks? the phone queue was > 1hr

[Mikoyan]

Sign up to work in films.

Somehow they are able to test every single one working on filmset with a week turnaround time to ensure they can be on set.

Private testing contract with lifelabs. Saw a news article last month that productions were running into testing backlogs too. Some tests were shipped to WA state apparently.

[Hehe]

I truly think we need to think outside the box in an effort to "open up the economy".


We don't need to think outside the box. We need to follow good examples.

List all the countries that have had real success containing the virus, and see how we can adapt their measures.

Let's just talk about Taiwan because I know there the best and I think we can definitely take some of their stuff and adapt to fit our culture/regulations.

Track&trace:
This is the core component of TW's strategy. Of course our privacy laws are vastly different. China is even worse on that, but this is one of their core strategies as it gives a flying fuck about privacy.

But it can be a very simple app. Anyone can register with their phone number, it will keep track of your whereabouts on the phone but anonymous to the server as registration process record no names, just a phone number. You can even go another step to encrypt those numbers so that only the system knows the actual numbers making it impossible to access those data except the system. Anyone who wants to go into any public place like a resto/gym... or any private property that opens to public, (owner/operators of these entities can choose to require that as safety measure), you scan to check-in to verify that you have not been in close proximity of the virus.

When a case is identified, the tracing of that person is compared to everyone in the database, and notify affected "numbers" so these people can stay low for a while. (they will be unable to go into business that requires them). When one's yellow/red-flagged, they can either stay low or go into a testing facility to have them green-lighted again following a test.

Anyway, I might be talking shit as I'm no privacy law expert. However, the idea is to create a way for people to go on with their normal business WITH a catch to deal with this fucking virus. And one can choose to either participate or just do everything online with no activity that involves gathering in places with others.

[chinook79]

We don't need to think outside the box. We need to follow good examples.

List all the countries that have had real success containing the virus, and see how we can adapt their measures.

Let's just talk about Taiwan because I know there the best and I think we can definitely take some of their stuff and adapt to fit our culture/regulations.

Track&trace:
This is the core component of TW's strategy. Of course our privacy laws are vastly different. China is even worse on that, but this is one of their core strategies as it gives a flying fuck about privacy.

But it can be a very simple app. Anyone can register with their phone number, it will keep track of your whereabouts on the phone but anonymous to the server as registration process record no names, just a phone number. You can even go another step to encrypt those numbers so that only the system knows the actual numbers making it impossible to access those data except the system. Anyone who wants to go into any public place like a resto/gym... or any private property that opens to public, (owner/operators of these entities can choose to require that as safety measure), you scan to check-in to verify that you have not been in close proximity of the virus.

When a case is identified, the tracing of that person is compared to everyone in the database, and notify affected "numbers" so these people can stay low for a while. (they will be unable to go into business that requires them). When one's yellow/red-flagged, they can either stay low or go into a testing facility to have them green-lighted again following a test.

Anyway, I might be talking shit as I'm no privacy law expert. However, the idea is to create a way for people to go on with their normal business WITH a catch to deal with this fucking virus. And one can choose to either participate or just do everything online with no activity that involves gathering in places with others.

Contact tracing is only effective when the community spread is minimal. We are way beyond that. Yes it would slow it down a little, but the benefit would be minimal at best at this point of pandemic.
With that being said, on a note on privacy issue, speaking from personal experience dealing with government policy related to privacy (I deal with PIA, privacy Impact Assessment often for work), no one at the government will want to sign off anything related to privacy issue.

Yet to this day, there are people still protesting on masks. Just freaking make mask mandatory on all indoor activity and enforce it hard. How much more evidence do we really need to prove masks reduces spread?? All countries effectively fending off wide spread were early adopters of mask policy. Heck forget other countries comparison, just take a look at the difference in spread in Richmond versus Tri-city

[BIC_BAWS]

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/mobile/new-b-c-covid-19-restrictions-why-is-it-ok-to-go-to-a-restaurant-with-strangers-but-not-to-someone-s-home-1.5182957

Here's some clarification on the new orders

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

[Hehe]

Contact tracing is only effective when the community spread is minimal. We are way beyond that. Yes it would slow it down a little, but the benefit would be minimal at best at this point of pandemic.
With that being said, on a note on privacy issue, speaking from personal experience dealing with government policy related to privacy (I deal with PIA, privacy Impact Assessment often for work), no one at the government will want to sign off anything related to privacy issue.

Yet to this day, there are people still protesting on masks. Just freaking make mask mandatory on all indoor activity and enforce it hard. How much more evidence do we really need to prove masks reduces spread?? All countries effectively fending off wide spread were early adopters of mask policy. Heck forget other countries comparison, just take a look at the difference in spread in Richmond versus Tri-city

It's not about containing the virus with track&tracing... it's to setup a system to properly account the flow of people given any specific place/business. It's about how business can go back to normal.

By not adopting a similar system, no high risk businesses (bars, gyms... etc) can effectively minimize risks. Whatever PPE and social distancing measures they put in place makes no sense. Think taking your kids to soccer practice. You wear masks and keep distance with other parents, but the kids are all still playing together on the field. One kid has Covid, the chances of the rest of kids and their families increase exponentially.

Our gov't can't expect private businesses/entities to come up with their own methods to keep track. They should implement a central, one-for-all system. So that regular citizens have a system to rely on.

My friend owns a personal training company and the business has been hit hard. They had been shut down again... and even before that, it was operating at ~50% as before the pandemic. After the re-shutdown last week, my friend is just considering to shut the whole operation until everything is back to control. The business cannot operate when they dunno when the next shut-down will take place.

If a system was in place, the company can keep operating... as long as they keep control of its clients and make sure they are all low-risk people.

Again, as I said at the end in my previous post, it's not about using the T&T to contain the virus anymore... but rather paving a way for people and business to keep track of flow and therefore provide a way for them to safely carrying out their usual business.

[chinook79]

it's not the effective system that's an issue, it's bureaucracy surrounding approving the system that's not going to happen in this decade, not in Canada. I once designed a system that will dramatically increase efficiency on a business. Took 3 months of "volunteer overtime" and dedication to the project to complete it. Unfortunately, to go live with it, they basically want full documentations worth twice required work hour to complete than to design and develop, plus couple of years in wait time while all levels of government signs it off. If I were to put 4 in scale 1 to 10 in difficulties coming up with flawless system, I would rate it 20 for going through hoops and loops through bureaucracy and documentations. Pandemic or not, no matter urgency, no one in Canadian government system will want to sign off a system in fear of backfire down the road if there's slightest flaws in the system. No matter how much it makes sense, status quo is good for government jobs, not changes.

[twitchyzero]

shout out to the restaurants doing their part

1. speaker pointing out the door calling order numbers

2. dumping the bill trays into a bucket of soapy water

i'm on your side should the govt targets you guys unfairly (doing what i can tipping take outs at the local mom pops)

[68style]

Yes I think in general, restaurants are the leaders in how to run things properly... I see most other places cutting corners a lot, but most food places I have been around are trying their best and it can't be easy with varying "quality" levels in regards to staff.

[SkinnyPupp]

Here's a weird one. There's an outbreak of common cold/flu going around Hong Kong kindergartens (https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/health-environment/article/3109493/hong-kong-kindergartens-close-over-outbreaks-flu). This is with a lot of anti-covid measures in place (as much as you can with kids anyway). It's so bad that they are shutting down these schools again for 2 weeks, in case it does turn into a covid outbreak.

[Hondaracer]

Skinny with the weekly Chinese puppet state update

[JDMDreams]

^ at least the Chinese is doing a better job at coronas, unlike the No fACE mASK mY FaCe My FrEedOM :fulloffuck:

[Hondaracer]

There’s so much irony in people begging to be like HK and Taiwan with their covid response and then mocking people in N/A for exercising their “freedom” albeit mostly in ignorant ways.

Places where you don’t even have the freedom to THINK in certain ways..lulz

By the sounds of it some of you guys should be booking your 1 way ticket to these puppet states as soon as things get back to normal.

[westopher]

It’s pretty easy to keep the conspiracy theorists quiet when you block FB and YouTube. Our issue is stupidity, but unfortunately that stupidity is deeply rooted in the freedom to consume the news you want from the sources you want, which when done improperly creates an absolute fucking idiot.

[CivicBlues]

There’s so much irony in people begging to be like HK and Taiwan with their covid response and then mocking people in N/A for exercising their “freedom” albeit mostly in ignorant ways.

Places where you don’t even have the freedom to THINK in certain ways..lulz

By the sounds of it some of you guys should be booking your 1 way ticket to these puppet states as soon as things get back to normal.

I...I don't think you know what puppet state means.

[Hondaracer]

Give it 10 years

[CivicBlues]

uhh ok

How does any of that have any bearing on how the virus is being handled today?

Also, are Australia, NZ also puppet states where no freedom of thought is tolerated? Wait a sec...freedom of thought? did we jump ahead to Minority Report tech already?

[GGnoRE]

There’s so much irony in people begging to be like HK and Taiwan with their covid response and then mocking people in N/A for exercising their “freedom” albeit mostly in ignorant ways.

Places where you don’t even have the freedom to THINK in certain ways..lulz

By the sounds of it some of you guys should be booking your 1 way ticket to these puppet states as soon as things get back to normal.

I'm damn proud to be a Canadian myself but we as western countries got to learn big time from Asian countries when it comes to covid response. My friends in Taiwan and South Korea are, and have been for a while, enjoying 90% of their normal life while we are holed up in our houses hoarding tp and wondering if its safe to see our parents or friends. Having "freedom" and being able to contain the virus effectively is not mutually exclusive.

[Hondaracer]

The pokes at communist take overs aside, the cultural differences are obviously huge barrier to overcome which I think almost outweighs the “freedom” part

Ie. in Japan you look like the biggest asshole if you’re not wearing a mask where as here I was just in Safeway and there are a bunch of people not wearing masks, talking to one another, etc. It’s not that they are into dat FrEeDoM! But there’s no social accountability in western society.

People don’t need the govt. to tell them things when public pressure forces you to do the right thing

[SkinnyPupp]

The pokes at communist take overs aside, the cultural differences are obviously huge barrier to overcome which I think almost outweighs the “freedom” part

Ie. in Japan you look like the biggest asshole if you’re not wearing a mask where as here I was just in Safeway and there are a bunch of people not wearing masks, talking to one another, etc. It’s not that they are into dat FrEeDoM! But there’s no social accountability in western society.

People don’t need the govt. to tell them things when public pressure forces you to do the right thing
And Taiwan and Hong Kong as well. With "puppet state" you seem to think that means the people are puppets and the govt is in control. That's not what it means. Taiwan is no puppet state lol

No argument here calling HK a puppet state though, but that's because their govt is a puppet for another govt.

The people are individuals though, not puppets, and have been doing the right thing since day 1 - often going AGAINST govt guidelines (they said no masks at the start), and FORCING the govt to close borders (they wouldn't close the border until hospital workers went on strike)

For some reason there is a large idea of being a controversialist in Canada and even moreso in America. Like people HAVE to go against what authorities are saying, even if it's not in their best interest. I like individualism, but this is just weird. People literally make up facts to support being able to do the wrong thing. It breaks my mind.

[Hondaracer]

People don’t like being told what to do, period. Right or wrong I think that’s what it comes down to.

The states is frankly a lost cause and unfortunately Canada seems to have people who grasp onto the same straws idiots in the states do. Our only saving grace is that we have a smaller population. However, that doesn’t seem to matter when it comes to a small few ruining it for the rest of us

[JDMDreams]

^^ let's keep having those weddings, a lock down is coming, just look at Ontario, Manitoba, Alberta. Every province is announcing something. Ontario is projected to have 3000 to 6000 cases a day by mid December. Canmurica here we come.

[SumAznGuy]

1130 new cases over the last 2 days, yesterday was 594. Oh so close to topping 600.

[Hondaracer]

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/11/12/covid-19-south-asian-community/

“It’s not in any way to blame the community,” she told a group of South Asian reporters during a teleconference this week. “But now we need to take measures to protect the community because it is transmitted in the South Asian community more so than we are seeing in other people right now.”

Frankly it’s this type of language and the PC cultured associated that makes her messaging so ineffective.

So sorry, people who have been knowingly breaking the rules in private ARENT to blame? Ok

[JDMDreams]

I guess that's one way for them to control their population :considered:

[JDMDreams]

Projections shows it will take 13 days to double the amount of cases. So 1000+ a day in bc by the end of the month.

[pastarocket]

Dr. Bonnie has to deal with some pretty stupid questions from people about the workplace.

She mentioned during today's Covid update that an employer asked her "Can I have an in person staff meeting of 12 people inside a room?". :facepalm:

Her two part answer was "Yes, if each person in that meeting can maintain a minimum of 6 feet of distance between every person in that meeting".

"The bigger question is why do you need 12 people to attend an in person meeting?"

Do employers not use Zoom, MS Teams, or other technical solutions for video conference calls?? :facepalm:

Dr. Bonnie said that she is really surprised that an employer asked her this question at this time.

[JDMDreams]

^^ we tried to have a 6 person webex meeting at work, basically our images crap out and you only see a grey screen

[Teriyaki]

Have regular 40-50ppl meetings on Teams with no issues. Granted its usually only the 10 or so with video feed but technology really shouldn't be an excuse at this point.

[threezero]

Dr. Bonnie has to deal with some pretty stupid questions from people about the workplace.

She mentioned during today's Covid update that an employer asked her "Can I have an in person staff meeting of 12 people inside a room?". :facepalm:

Her two part answer was "Yes, if each person in that meeting can maintain a minimum of 6 feet of distance between every person in that meeting".

"The bigger question is why do you need 12 people to attend an in person meeting?"

Do employers not use Zoom, MS Teams, or other technical solutions for video conference calls?? :facepalm:

Dr. Bonnie said that she is really surprised that an employer asked her this question at this time.


Not a stupid question at all. Most of us working in live event industry that are holding on for dear life NEEDS clarification like this.

Yes yes, you can use technology to connect people but some meeting still needs to be conducted in person. Case in point union negotiation that for some reason needs to be conducted in person.

Business event have still been taking place for the past few month following the strict social distancing/cleaning guideline provided by the government. Many recurring event that has been book in advance are now facing the dilemma of whether their meeting now violates the new restriction.

This would determine how and if they can cancel without penalty.

Dr.Bonnie saying Business meeting is okay as longs you meet social distancing policy = if you cancel it is your decision. Full cancellation clause applies

Dr.Bonnie saying no to the same question means planner can claim force majeure and suddenly you have a way more lenient cancellation policy.

Bigger issue is Dr.Bonnie being surprise by this. Will not go well with the industry see as the live event industry have been basically push aside since the pandemic. We have been deem non-essential and never given the same type of attention for re-opening/revival of the industry compare to say restaurants and bars.

Vague wording and confusion by the government on why people are still meeting while following guideline provide by the government themselves is not helping the cause as all.

[inv4zn]

Frankly it’s this type of language and the PC cultured associated that makes her messaging so ineffective.

So sorry, people who have been knowingly breaking the rules in private ARENT to blame? Ok

It's a sign of the times - whether you agree with PC or not if she were to come out and call out east indian people, or filipinos, or whatever, there will be such a big uproar it'll even further diminish her message.

You really have to understand, she has an absolutely shitty job right now.

[BIC_BAWS]

^^ we tried to have a 6 person webex meeting at work, basically our images crap out and you only see a grey screenThat's cause WebEx is crap LOL

I remember using it for my internship to communicate with Australia branch. What a mess

Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk

[twitchyzero]

It's a sign of the times - whether you agree with PC or not if she were to come out and call out east indian people, or filipinos, or whatever, there will be such a big uproar it'll even further diminish her message.


she almost kinda did though

Dr. Bonnie Henry said the increase of cases in the South Asian community is mainly due to weddings and celebration-of-life events.

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/11/12/covid-19-south-asian-community/

bit shocked to see SkinnyPupp fast to call out the whites though

[JDMDreams]

I see nothing wrong with calling the offenders out. This at the end of the day is a pandemic. They need to be way more transparent about who, where, when, rather than hiding what businesses or who in schools has been infected. Especially when they are so adamant on keeping them open.

[Jmac]

I see nothing wrong with calling the offenders out. This at the end of the day is a pandemic. They need to be way more transparent about who, where, when, rather than hiding what businesses or who in schools has been infected. Especially when they are so adamant on keeping them open.
You do have to be careful, though. As we saw at the beginning of the outbreak, people of Asian descent were the targets of violence, harassment, racism, etc. because the virus originated in China.

[SkinnyPupp]

Oh I made fun of white people a few months ago, that means I'm racist and bring it up constantly

White people are such snowflakes :troll:

[fishCak3s]

I feel strongly about mandating masks as we've see from countries that are doing well. US CDC just published a study that masks not only prevents spreading the virus but also protecting the wearer from inhaling infectious droplets.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html

Health and Human Services Secretary of the US came out on TV and said where they found at 1m if both people wearing masks, it can reduce viral transmission by 70% therefore protecting both the infected from spreading the virus and the wearer.

One thing Dr. Henry said today bothered me. A reporter asked what will she say to the business owners that are having difficulties enforcing mask wearing in their establishment because customers would say "Dr. Henry tells me I don't have to wear one so you can't force me to."
Dr. Henry replied that businesses need to include mask wearing in their covid safety plan which is more enforceable than her making it an order to wear a mask and it's an expectation to wear a mask in public indoor spaces in this province which people know.

Clearly the owner of these businesses have mandated mask wearing that's why they're hearing these comments and I've seen enough covid safety plans to say most require masks.
Dr. Henry did not answer the question but rather putting it back onto the business owners that are asking for her guidance.

:facepalm:

[winson604]

^^ we tried to have a 6 person webex meeting at work, basically our images crap out and you only see a grey screen

Damn, maybe old version? At the start of Covid we upgraded our webex and I've had meetings up to like 90 people without issue.

[Amuse]

https://youtu.be/Z4_K5Mm8eJA

[underscore]

Are there no standards requirements for things put on billboards here to be factual? Someone paid for space on a digital one here with "COVID: Is the cure worse than the disease?"

[CRS]

I feel strongly about mandating masks as we've see from countries that are doing well. US CDC just published a study that masks not only prevents spreading the virus but also protecting the wearer from inhaling infectious droplets.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/masking-science-sars-cov2.html

Health and Human Services Secretary of the US came out on TV and said where they found at 1m if both people wearing masks, it can reduce viral transmission by 70% therefore protecting both the infected from spreading the virus and the wearer.

One thing Dr. Henry said today bothered me. A reporter asked what will she say to the business owners that are having difficulties enforcing mask wearing in their establishment because customers would say "Dr. Henry tells me I don't have to wear one so you can't force me to."
Dr. Henry replied that businesses need to include mask wearing in their covid safety plan which is more enforceable than her making it an order to wear a mask and it's an expectation to wear a mask in public indoor spaces in this province which people know.

Clearly the owner of these businesses have mandated mask wearing that's why they're hearing these comments and I've seen enough covid safety plans to say most require masks.
Dr. Henry did not answer the question but rather putting it back onto the business owners that are asking for her guidance.

:facepalm:

Honestly, I'm sick and tired of this BS.

We need to mandate masks.

If there's a second lockdown, my life (and that of my household) will not change much. If your life changes drastically, you're the reason why there's a second lockdown.

[6793026]

vancovuer sun article is estimating 2500 cases daily by december.. holy F.

[westopher]

Honestly, I'm sick and tired of this BS.

We need to mandate masks.

If there's a second lockdown, my life (and that of my household) will not change much. If your life changes drastically, you're the reason why there's a second lockdown.
That's a pretty unfair statement to make. Not everyone can work remotely. Loss of job is a pretty fucking drastic life change.
I assume you didn't mean it that way, but a lockdown is a pretty drastic situation for people who are following the rules still, and have been the whole time.

[CRS]

That's a pretty unfair statement to make. Not everyone can work remotely. Loss of job is a pretty fucking drastic life change.
I assume you didn't mean it that way, but a lockdown is a pretty drastic situation for people who are following the rules still, and have been the whole time.

You're right.

I should have articulated better with saying that it applies to people's social interactions rather than lives as a whole.

[westopher]

We have stuck to our "bubble" so to speak. There are really only two couples we have seen throughout this in a social setting, and it's been in restaurants, not at our homes, as directed, and honestly, not seeing them is (and even has been this week) a drastic change for us. Some people are much more social than others. Me and my wife don't have kids, and seeing just a couple other people across the table to have a burger and a beer, and to shoot the shit about how our weeks were is a big part of our lives. It seems small, but it's a big contributor to well being.
It does really suck being at work, and see groups of people (who I assume) completely disregarding it, but we cant police it due to the way the directives are worded. Although we have in obvious situations. A fucking group of 10 people tried to come in and seat their kids at a different table than them as a clear group of three households. It was just like, GTFO of here.

[JDMDreams]

A lockdown is coming whether your like it or not, they are at the point they have no choice, as it's just going to get worse if they don't. You can thank Canada's everything is fine, reactionary policies, we will wait to see what happens rather than being proactive and future proofing.

[Hondaracer]

Are there no standards requirements for things put on billboards here to be factual? Someone paid for space on a digital one here with "COVID: Is the cure worse than the disease?"

Well the WHO has similar wording on their own site. As does the UN

Albeit for mostly 3rd world countries though where supply chain breakdown = starvation

[320icar]

Are there no standards requirements for things put on billboards here to be factual? Someone paid for space on a digital one here with "COVID: Is the cure worse than the disease?"

Obviously not, I see religious billboards all the time trololololo

[mikemhg]

Just started mandating mask wearing at my gym going forward, imposed by City of Burnaby.

[Hondaracer]

Great..my gym also in Burnaby.

Pretty shit because there are 4 ppl in a 600+ sq foot section :/

[Doubl3_H]

My office made it mandatory to mask up when you leave your office. Walking down to get a coffee, mask up, going to the shitters, mask up.

[inv4zn]

My office made it mandatory to mask up when you leave your office. Walking down to get a coffee, mask up, going to the shitters, mask up.

Yup, same. I guess this is what Bonnie Henry meant when she put the onus on businesses rather than a blanket mandate. We had immediate 100% compliance, although it is a professional setting rather than a warehouse or restaurant, etc.

[westopher]

We have had mandatory masks for staff since April, and have 100% compliance. If you don’t have it, you don’t work. It’s simple.

[StylinRed]

617 cases and 2 deaths in the past 24, with a doubling rate every 13days... So by Nov 26 we should be at 1200 a day? Well damn

[Hondaracer]

Yup, same. I guess this is what Bonnie Henry meant when she put the onus on businesses rather than a blanket mandate. We had immediate 100% compliance, although it is a professional setting rather than a warehouse or restaurant, etc.

So in a warehouse ppl just ain’t gonna listen? Lol

It’s on the business. As westopher said, whether you work at Louis Vuitton or a Dildo warehouse, if your company mandates masks, you wear a mask or you don’t work/get fired, period. There is no grey area.

It might be different in some 2-3 person work environment, but even my wife’s office is approx 800 sq for downtown, only 4 employees in separate rooms and they wear masks whenever moving around, etc.

Mandates ain’t gonna do shit for companies that don’t already have a policy in place.

[westopher]

LF: dildo warehouse shipping logistics coordinator. Will settle for head of testing.

[JDMDreams]

So apparently Bonnie said no mandatory face mask, so probably over 1000 right after dawali. :ahwow:

[westopher]

I agree they need to be mandatory, but the effect of that would have no bearing on that outcome. People aren’t following mask guidelines at house/yard parties.

[Hondaracer]

Feelin like gettin complacent tonight :woot2:

[320icar]

My office made it mandatory to mask up when you leave your office. Walking down to get a coffee, mask up, going to the shitters, mask up.

And it’s been like that since March right??? Surely they’re not just doing this now

[mikemhg]

So in a warehouse ppl just ain’t gonna listen? Lol

It’s on the business. As westopher said, whether you work at Louis Vuitton or a Dildo warehouse, if your company mandates masks, you wear a mask or you don’t work/get fired, period. There is no grey area.

It might be different in some 2-3 person work environment, but even my wife’s office is approx 800 sq for downtown, only 4 employees in separate rooms and they wear masks whenever moving around, etc.

Mandates ain’t gonna do shit for companies that don’t already have a policy in place.

Dildo warehouse :lol

[MG1]

617 cases and 2 deaths in the past 24, with a doubling rate every 13days... So by Nov 26 we should be at 1200 a day? Well damn

Eek......... maybe it's time to stop going out to shop at Costco.


But, but, butt............ I can't hoard. Gulololol.

No casinos, no Costco......... might as well go back to watching Matlock reruns. I'm gonna go crazy.

[twitchyzero]

apparently most of YVR traffic is

1. amazon
2. ppe

i wonder how much longer a volume port like vancouver can sustain the current state for before our economy collapses

[yray]

LOL ports are busy with CBSA being an ass to chinese goods

[JDMDreams]

The ports will survive if they don't pay $60+ an hour to addicts :suspicious:

[MarkyMark]

The ports will survive if they don't pay $60+ an hour to addicts :suspicious:

So the ports aren't going to survive then...?

[Mr.Money]

the amount of useless shit we buy...clothes,shoes,household goods.


the ports should go on as always.

[twitchyzero]

no shortage of opioids

[StylinRed]

Platinum fitness in Surrey has an outbreak, at least 42 covid patients out of there so far

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/11/13/42-positive-covid-19-cases-linked-to-surrey-gym/

[320icar]

A post on the gym’s social media says the outbreak has been traced to people who were at the gym after they had been tested, but before they received results.

I’d be 100% okay with jailtime/fully enforced house arrest for cunts like that

[RiceIntegraRS]

I’d be 100% okay with jailtime/fully enforced house arrest for cunts like that

U'd be surprised how many people that are out there covid +, just out and about with their daily lives.

[westopher]

no shortage of opioids
Found a guy od’ing tonight in the back hallway behind work and had to get paramedics in, speaking of opioids. Not a fucking bueno time.
Man I feel for the paramedics and first responders right now. Full respirators, face shields, gowns, etc.
People who are complaining about wearing masks at Costco can seriously suck a fucking dick right now.

[fishCak3s]

I see people using a bandana or gaiter as face coverings. People also need to choose the right type of mask. There is a guide on BC CDC website:

Masks (http://www.bccdc.ca/health-info/diseases-conditions/covid-19/prevention-risks/masks)

This video provides some insight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHVyy08L2gM

[Nlkko]

Platinum fitness in Surrey has an outbreak, at least 42 covid patients out of there so far

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/11/13/42-positive-covid-19-cases-linked-to-surrey-gym/

"Why you close down businesses? GOVERNMENT CAN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!!! Protest!"

Yeah, because your dumb ass cannot fucking self-regulate and spread the AIDS to other people. Same clowns that go to the office and spread the flu to everyone and their families, every flu season.

People are shitty, man.

Found a guy od’ing tonight in the back hallway behind work and had to get paramedics in, speaking of opioids. Not a fucking bueno time.
Man I feel for the paramedics and first responders right now. Full respirators, face shields, gowns, etc.
People who are complaining about wearing masks at Costco can seriously suck a fucking dick right now.

A minor inconvenience for the good of themselves (no lockdown) and everyone else. "WHAT ABOUT MY RIGHTS??? FREEDOM DON'T TRY TO MUZZLE ME!!!"

[Hondaracer]

So I ate a weed cookie and am now heavily trippin out on the prospect of there not being an effective vaccine until next summer or fall and the situation becoming far worse than it currently is

https://i.imgur.com/w5LflZQ.png

[westopher]

There’s no fucking chance in fuck there will be an effective vaccine before then lol. Don’t need to be tripping to be stressed about that.

[JDMDreams]

If I got you a vaccine today will you take it? I mean Putin did it months ago. :considered::accepted:

[whitev70r]

So these past few days are the Halloween revellers/partyers getting Covid19 positive?

[westopher]

If I got you a vaccine today will you take it? I mean Putin did it months ago. :considered::accepted:
Depends on the source. If it was approved by Canadian doctors/scientists for distribution, yeah I’d take it.
It’s funny how scared of vaccines the same people are that have eaten a pill off the ground they found at a tiesto concert a decade ago or snorted ketamine off of the top of a toilet paper dispenser.

[inv4zn]

So in a warehouse ppl just ain’t gonna listen? Lol

It’s on the business. As westopher said, whether you work at Louis Vuitton or a Dildo warehouse, if your company mandates masks, you wear a mask or you don’t work/get fired, period. There is no grey area.

It might be different in some 2-3 person work environment, but even my wife’s office is approx 800 sq for downtown, only 4 employees in separate rooms and they wear masks whenever moving around, etc.

Mandates ain’t gonna do shit for companies that don’t already have a policy in place.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to say warehouses aren't professional, was more alluding to places like Walmart where employees just don't give a shit - I should've worded that better. Fully agree it's on the business.

Unrelated, the pieces of absolute shit that went to the gym with test results pending, should abso-fucking-lutely have the book thrown at them. There's literally no excuse. Maybe domestic terrorism charges ala some countries in Europe is a bit excessive, but 5 figure fines and name-and-shame are all fucking fair game.

It doesn't matter if 649,950 people are all adhering to the rules and being just fucking good citizens and neighbours, if just 50 cunts decide staying home for 2 days and missing leg day doesn't apply to them, there's 500 cases a day.

[MarkyMark]

Makes you think these announcements from Bonnie Henry are just preaching to the choir. The people who give a shit are already listening, and the assholes who are fucking it up for everyone don't even watch the news and wouldn't care even if they did.

It's like asking people not to speed yet not enforcing it with tickets, what the fuck do you think is going to happen?

[68style]

Yah all you need to know about our problems is just that Surrey gym outbreak... 42+ cases from one gym and the reason given was people who had decided to get the test, because they they were not feeling well, but still went to the gym while waiting for the (positive!) result back.

Just utter contempt for their fellow man. “Gotta get that pump bro, sweat out the sick amiright????”

[MG1]

https://bc.ctvnews.ca/3-schools-in-fraser-health-region-closing-due-to-covid-19-cases-1.5189598

https://www.citynews1130.com/2020/11/14/surrey-school-becomes-first-in-b-c-to-close-due-to-covid-19-outbreak/

Close enough to Winter Holidays that maybe closing schools early might be a good idea. Stories of parents not disclosing possible Covid in their homes and continuing to send their kids to school. I drive by my local elementary school and see classes out for walks.......... not too many masks and even teachers not wearing masks. How does this even happen? The kids were not social distancing.

[twitchyzero]

i agree if we're trying to do no social gatherings then get the school's closed by 1st week of dec

i remember there was one year circa 2005 we had snow for weeks...could use that again

[moody]

While the world is in lockdown and everyone is looking at the covid case count... This was happening in taiwan last night.

https://www.facebook.com/AlessoOfficial/videos/402572754454576/

I'm happy to see they have brought back live stadium/arena concerts. I just hope we'll get there one day. Lol

[MG1]

A great example of what can happen if we get our shit together.

Good on Taiwan to get it under control. Hopefully, no outsiders went to this event.

[MG1]

Wasn't that long ago when people were saying it's only the really old seniors who were dying. Who gives a shit about them. Why shut everything down only to protect these people who are going to die anyway. 20/20 is whatever they call it, but looking to the future, this pandemic could become a total cleansing of this planet. No evidence, but if this was a biological weapon, it is as good as it gets. Slow, but persistent. Could mutate by the time a vaccine is developed. It could lie dormant for a long time, like Chicken Pox and come back with a vengeance. If it's a natural occurrence, mother nature really got this one right.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30129-8/fulltext


Remember SARS 2003?

https://biomedgrid.com/pdf/AJBSR.MS.ID.001017.pdf

https://theconversation.com/the-original-sars-virus-disappeared-heres-why-coronavirus-wont-do-the-same-138177

[Hondaracer]

Well, the first shutdown that has effected me directly has now come, my gym, Fortius training Center set to close after their operation becomes unsustainable. This is really devastating to me personally.

https://www.burnabynow.com/news/fortius-sports-training-centre-in-burnaby-to-be-shut-down-1.24239378

https://i.imgur.com/1sP23rA.jpg

For those unfamiliar with this facility, this was truly a beacon in the health and fitness community and a world class facility by any measure. This is likely the best facility of its kind in western Canada, if not further.

They employed hundreds of excellent, quality, people and they never once focused on sales or other BS other facilities do. Outside of their fitness and performance Center they also employed a full team of Chiro’s, massage therapists, Physio, dieticians and nutritionists. Etc

I never received better more professional, competent treatment than at Fortius.

The quality of their facility was reflected in the professionals that frequented it. I worked out alongside Ryan Kesler, Ryan Johansen, Landon Ferraro, and a miriad of other NHLers, as well as Kristine Sinclair, Kyle Lowry and a bunch of the other raptors etc.

God, what a massive loss. Really sad to hear this news.

[twitchyzero]

hory shet that's nice
how much were the monthlies for basic?

[Hondaracer]

$6x a month depending

I had a corporate plan so I paid $52 a month. Worth every penny

[Blueboy222]

4Head

[Hondaracer]

Ceasing all operations permanently at a future date.

My only hope is that it is such a purpose built building that Somone buys it and reopens under a similar model, but given the size of the facility it will be a tough go

[GLOW]

reminds me of Equinox downtown for how large and fancy it looks

[6793026]

Well, the first shutdown that has effected me directly has now come, my gym, Fortius training Center set to close after their operation becomes unsustainable. This is really devastating to me personally.


They hosted as a training center for Canada taekwondo training . competition center one yr and it's an AWESOME place. They have hydrotherapy (Underwater Treadmill​water pool) which was mind blowing.

I went in to get my bicycle fitted by one of the specialist; while didn't really get to use the facility but dang the place is nice as F.

Sad ot see it go. (or shut down)

[MG1]

Drive by it everyday on the way to Forest Lawn. Been watching them build it from ground up. I'm glad they put in the traffic light there. So many people go there. It is definitely a shame to see it shut down.

IN fact, that whole area is the jewel of Burnaby. Six Rinks, Soccer Fields, Bill Copeland, Burnaby Lake trails, etc. Up the street is Heritage Centre, City Hall RCMP head office.

[MG1]

Two companies announcing vaccines that are 90%+ effective within a week. Great, people have a choice now?

What worries me, is that people are going to confuse a vaccine from a cure. They'll be out there in greater numbers thinking we're safe now, because the vaccines will eradicate the virus. Once you get the virus, no vaccine in the world is going to cure you. The people who stayed safe are going to come out on top.

I'm not sure how reliable the vaccines are. Or, how long they will stay effective. Side effects, etc. The vaccines are still months away from becoming available to the public. And, which ones do you choose? Or do we get that choice? Kind of like Beta vs VHS........

No brainer here. Front line workers and scientists first............... after the politicians and their families, of course. Rich people, that's a given. In this case, I believe seniors should be the last ones to get the vaccines. The ones who are in care homes will become the most protected after the caregivers are vaccinated. Once the seniors know there's a light at the end of the tunnel, I think they'll be okay with waiting a bit longer.

If the vaccines become available, I will self isolate at home and not take the vaccine until it is way overdue or they force me to take it. I'll let everybody else test the vaccines for me, gulolol. I'll just log on here and see people posting how they are protected from the virus, but are now at home 24/7 due to uncontrolled diarrhea and weight loss from loss in muscle mass, toxins building up in their blood, massive headaches, paranoia, mental health issues, etc.

Just kidding.......... I just hope nobody jumps on board any bandwagons. Still better than what shit is like now.

On a side note. Of all the Covid positive people in the US, which is a shitload, I wAnder how many of them are Republican or Democrats? Just curious, is all. Hey, we politicize everything else, Hee, Hee, Hue Hue, Pew Pew.................

[6793026]

Schools are all a cohart so that's their way to justify.

The fact a) cancelling school (or shutting down) = pushing all schools teaching days to summer. It's extremely difficult to make up the school last year's COVID, I can't see them shutting down Dec and then have teaching burden themselves with this new COVID teaching styles AND all parents are asking.

Then i got friend who are saying "OH please do NOT close the schools, I already can't handle significant others being in front of my face and NOW i have to take on my teenagers"

i really wonder what the school district leaders are saying.. cause honestly, if Dr. Henry says close, and teacher union says close (Horgan + health care says close)... there would be a full lock down in schools. I do wonder who's the one that doesn't want it to close.

[Gumby]

Closing the schools will have a huge impact on the workforce too - go to work, or watch your kids?

[Doubl3_H]

How long is the turnaround time for a covid test result?

[CRS]

How long is the turnaround time for a covid test result?

Usually within 48 hrs.

[Manic!]

Masks at Costco now Mando.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Bev-Oda/i-RCwh97C/0/b7aafdb6/X3/20201116_131128-X3.jpg

[SkinnyPupp]

https://twitter.com/nprpolitics/status/1328396169328914437

[winson604]

Masks at Costco now Mando.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Other/Bev-Oda/i-RCwh97C/0/b7aafdb6/X3/20201116_131128-X3.jpg

Lol I didn't even know it wasn't mandatory since I'm so used to wearing it anytime I go into any public building and the fact they hand out masks at the door if you don't have one.

[SumAznGuy]

Just a tad under 2000 cases this weekend.
We suck.

[inv4zn]

Just a tad under 2000 cases this weekend.
We suck.

The 2000 is (somewhat) encouraging as the #/day hasn't shot up exponentially.

My concern is the 10,928 people currently ordered to stay home - I mean that's a pretty damn big number.

How many actually will, and where's the enforcement - and the consequences if you're caught breaking it?

[HonestTea]

There’s actually some positives in the numbers.

Taken from Reddit:
1/ The numbers are roughly the same for each of the three days, meaning perhaps growth has stalled out.

2/ Compared to past weekend numbers, the weekend over weekend growth rate is the lowest for several months. It's still going up, and that's bad, but it's beginning to slow down.

3/ The number of people added to active surveillance is less than the number of people who got COVID. This is a reversal of the state we saw most of last week, where the pool of potentially sick people was growing faster than it was draining (by people either exiting active monitoring without COVID or having their diagnosis confirmed).

4/ The number of active cases increased by MUCH less than the number of new cases.

[MG1]

Lol I didn't even know it wasn't mandatory since I'm so used to wearing it anytime I go into any public building and the fact they hand out masks at the door if you don't have one.

IKEA hands out masks, too. Just left there. In fact, most places do. But Costco making those who can’t wear masks wear face shield. WOW. Kudos to them.

No more excuses, yo. If those people still refuse to wear face shield, they should be hauled away in a paddy wagon.

I’m glad businesses are taking the lead. After-all, it’s in their best interest. Protect their employees and avoid shut down of entire region.

[Hakkaboy]

IKEA hands out masks, too. Just left there. In fact, most places do. But Costco making those who can’t wear masks wear face shield. WOW. Kudos to them.

No more excuses, yo. If those people still refuse to wear face shield, they should be hauled away in a paddy wagon.

I’m glad businesses are taking the lead. After-all, it’s in their best interest. Protect their employees and avoid shut down of entire region.

I do still see people at Costco that don't wear masks (or shields) though...:moderatorban:

[320icar]

I do still see people at Costco that don't wear masks (or shields) though...:moderatorban:

This new rule would have just come into effect in the last ~48h or so. Otherwise It was just up to the members to choose to do the right thing. It also depends what Costco you go to.

Richmond Costco, though previously not a rule, had a solid 90% mask/shield compliance for members, and 100% of the staff (for months). That being said I hear the other Costco’s don’t have as vigilant members, most likely due to the racial make-up of each Costco location.

Still leagues better than Walmart/superstore etc where they don’t even enforce their employees to wear masks...

[SumAznGuy]

Still leagues better than Walmart/superstore etc where they don’t even enforce their employees to wear masks...

Last time I was at Walmart, back in June, their machines didn't accept tap.
You had to touch the key pad to enter your code. Ewww

[MG1]

Last time I was at Walmart, back in June, their machines didn't accept tap.
You had to touch the key pad to enter your code. Ewww

Still is. I was at the Lougheed Mall Walmart today. They even had brand new machines and they still do not accept tap. Dumb as fuck.


Gonna have to be a "dummy" and start wearing gloves. Hand sanitizer is not 100% effective. Unless they have hand washing stations there, not shopping there anymore. If enough people complain, something will be done.


Time to get some Karen's involved.

[StylinRed]

We were below 600 daily cases most of last week, and just over 600 a day by Friday, and the weekend brought us up to the mid 600s for daily cases... That's not a positive, that's a record breaking day each day of the weekend

Plus 9 people died over the weekend, we haven't had anything like that in months?

[GLOW]

i thought costco already that that rule they were handing out blue masks if you didn't have one, guess it was just optional...

[MG1]

i thought costco already that that rule they were handing out blue masks if you didn't have one, guess it was just optional...

Yes, you could refuse. If you insisted not wearing one, they just let you in. I don't think I've seen many non maskers, if any at all, during the times I've been at the two Costco's in my area.

[Alpine]

For reference, on average, over 12k people are hospitalized and 3.5k people die from the flu each year (numbers for Canada)

Not saying covid is fake (far from it), but I think our reactions would be much less severe if flu numbers were released on a daily basis in the past.

[MG1]

Next time I'm at Costco and spot a person without mask on...........
https://imgur.com/nuPeSl5

[StylinRed]

For reference, on average, over 12k people are hospitalized and 3.5k people die from the flu each year (numbers for Canada)

Not saying covid is fake (far from it), but I think our reactions would be much less severe if flu numbers were released on a daily basis in the past.

We're at 11,027 deaths and it hasn't been a year... So..

[twitchyzero]

we let our guard down and invited measles for a comeback
~1/4 mill fatalities globally last year

[SkinnyPupp]

Death rate for flu in Canada: 500-1500 per year (source: infection prevention and control Canada (https://ipac-canada.org/influenza-resources.php))

Covid deaths in Canada so far: 11,027
I think our reactions would be much less severe if flu numbers were released on a daily basis in the past.

I think the reactions already aren't severe enough for a large part of the population, and you'd literally have to deny reality not to think it's very serious.

[westopher]

We're at 11,027 deaths and it hasn't been a year... So..

Not to mention we had to shut the fuckin world down to hit those numbers. Imagine we did nothing, like we do for the flu every year?

[welfare]

Not to mention we had to shut the fuckin world down to hit those numbers. Imagine we did nothing, like we do for the flu every year?

Well no, that's not true. We have vaccines for the flu.
I'm genuinely curious though, what will happen if not enough of the population are willing to take a vaccine when it becomes available.
Confidence in it appears to be waning.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/11/fewer-people-say-they-would-take-a-covid-19-vaccine-now-than-3-months-ago

[CRS]

If not enough of the population take it, we simply won't get herd immunity.

So anyone that does not take it is at risk of getting COVID and does not get passive protection.

[welfare]

As i understand it, if not enough of the population take it, the vaccine will be ineffective.
Or is that incorrect?

[GLOW]

Next time I'm at Costco and spot a person without mask on...........
https://imgur.com/nuPeSl5

disappointed MG I was expecting something like:

:ilied:
https://i0.wp.com/media0.giphy.com/media/Fb0uOIWI1eVTG/giphy.gif

[SkinnyPupp]

As i understand it, if not enough of the population take it, the vaccine will be ineffective.
Or is that incorrect?
AFAIK it would be effective for the people who take it, but the virus would still be around, threatening at any time, maybe with the ability to mutate.

Kind of like there's a flu virus, and not many people take it. The ones that do are protected, but so many people don't that the flu just sticks around.

It also tells us how hard it will be to eradicate covid. The one thing covid deniers get right is that there should have been incentive to eradicate the flu, since most are shocked to find out how many people it kills. But the incentive was never there, because it was never out of control like covid.

To be able to get rid of covid, absolutely the huge majority of the world's population has to take a vaccine. There is definitely going to be a lot of effort to make that happen, and there's going to be a lot of resistance against it (some of it actually warranted IMO).

Although the 2 trials showed promising results so far, we are a long, long way from actually putting them to use.

All just IMO, I could be totally wrong here.

[underscore]

Also even though 90+% effectiveness is great, if you get the vaccine you're not guaranteed it worked fully. So you can be vaccinated but there's still a chance you'll get it if you don't have the additional protection of herd immunity.

I'm already annoyed enough by all the crap other people are putting us through with their selfishness so I'd be doubly pissed to get a vaccine but still get COVID because we can't get herd immunity. If that did happen it might be the point I'd consider moving.

[CivicBlues]

Businesses can do their part once vaccine rolls out to incentivize getting it . Want to get on a plane? Show your vaccine card. Want to watch a movie in the theatre? Show your vaccine card. Eat at a crowded chain restaurant like Earls/Cactus/Joeys? Card!

[Hondaracer]

Love dis dystopian timeline

[StylinRed]

Businesses can do their part once vaccine rolls out to incentivize getting it . Want to get on a plane? Show your vaccine card. Want to watch a movie in the theatre? Show your vaccine card. Eat at a crowded chain restaurant like Earls/Cactus/Joeys? Card!

Like that Matt Damon movie, those who weren't vaccinated yet had to stay inside, and those who were had a scannable tag... or like China with their phone app

Japan should do that with the Olympics next year, want to come to the olympics/enter Japan? Show us it vaccination papers, or get vaccinated at customs

[inv4zn]

Love dis dystopian timeline

You keep saying things like this as if somehow it means anything.

It's not really dystopian if you consider the alternatives, no? You want to live on a farm secluded from everyone else? No? How about in the jungle? No? Arctic circle?

Like is 2020 dystopian compared to 1950 because we all have to wear seatbelts and not drink when we drive?

What about 1950 compared to 1800? You're not allowed to shit in the street anymore! Dystopia!!

What about 1800 compared to 1300? What? I can't pillage my neighbour and rape his wife!? Government tyranny!

Like seriously man.

[Hondaracer]

Having a chip on your person to prove you were injected with some RNA vaccine aint equivalent to wearing a seatbelt lol..

I dont really care as i will get the vaccine asap if that means international travel is opened up.

I bring up the dystopian part because this is the type of thing that countless fiction novels have been written on. and to stir covid cucks like yourself up EleGiggle

[320icar]

Thank god they don’t put chips in face masks or you’d have a complete toddler tantrum

[CivicBlues]

who is talking about implanting chips onto your person? Sounds like Bill Gates 5G conspiracy fuckery to me. I'm talking about the yellow booklet that you get filled in when you get your Hep A/MMR/Tetanus shots.

Many countries already do this with the Yellow Fever vaccine. Don't have one? Get denied entry or get jabbed on the spot by some sketchy border guard.

[Hondaracer]

when i say chip i just mean RFID built into your phone etc. which would have the health data or an app

[welfare]

who is talking about implanting chips onto your person? Sounds like Bill Gates 5G conspiracy fuckery to me. I'm talking about the yellow booklet that you get filled in when you get your Hep A/MMR/Tetanus shots.

Many countries already do this with the Yellow Fever vaccine. Don't have one? Get denied entry or get jabbed on the spot by some sketchy border guard.

Those vaccines weren't developed within a year though. And not on a scale of what's projected for a covid vaccine.

[68style]

Guilty of yellow fever here :fullofwin:

[underscore]

Private companies are already logging all kinds of info about you, if they care to I imagine it'd be easy for them to determine (or guess) whether you get a COVID vaccine. I'm not exactly a fan of such things but if they're happening anyways may as well be useful and provide accurate vaccination information.

https://i.imgur.com/2TA6ERL.png

[MG1]

Just got news that two seniors from the care home my mother-in-law is in got taken to hospital last night. They were in the same ward/wing. For the longest time, they were in lock down. Then in recent months, they’ve been allowing visitors. Not sure what their rules were, but nobody visited her from our family. My mother in law was very understanding and we definitely didn’t want to be the ones to bring Covid to the place. How can people place others at risk? I don’t get it. I drop off goodies to the place. Items are sanitized and put together with gloves. The newsletters I print out as quarantined for a few weeks.

Someone was careless at the place. I listen to Bonnie Henry’s reports with fingers crossed that the care home would not be mentioned.

Now all I can do is hope they totally clean the place and isolate everybody.

[320icar]

How can people place others at risk? I don’t get it.

My family friend, her father had a bad stroke a few years ago and hasn’t been able to be home since, has been in a long term care facility. Not old either, late 60’s. He had another stroke and has been non-verbal since. His mind is there, but has no easy way of communicating since he can no longer talk and has poor dexterity.

They haven’t been able to see him since February. He is wasting away in a care home and it’s hurting the family deeply. His wife is home with the grandchildren, but hasn’t been able to see her husband of 45 years for months when he needs her the most.

Covid sucks. It’s unfortunate on all sides. Do I think it’s selfish to risk bringin in covid to a care facility? Yes. But I also see the other side of that coin.

[GLOW]

dystopian?
there's no talk of Daybreakers, I am Legend, or 28 days later...we're not there yet Kappa

[twitchyzero]

Lessons from Australia: Victoria shows the world what a real lockdown looks like

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/victoria-australia-manitoba-analysis-1.5804343

but i thought only puppet states can control covid well doe
our culture not following rules/recommendation is a poor excuse

Businesses can do their part once vaccine rolls out to incentivize getting it . Want to get on a plane? Show your vaccine card. Want to watch a movie in the theatre? Show your vaccine card. Eat at a crowded chain restaurant like Earls/Cactus/Joeys? Card!

might as well wear a star on your arm
i'm for vaccination but a health card is a slippery slope

[SkinnyPupp]

It is absolutely dystopian to do what's being discussed here. I think a lot of people will accept it though, as it may be the only way to "move on" from where we are now.

[CivicBlues]

What kind of dystopian fiction are you guys reading? Getting a vaccine and then telling people about it so you can patronize their business for a year, maybe 2 tops, so we can get back to normal is hardly the stuff of nightmares.

The reality we live in now (lockdown/half-measures, anti-mask protests, politicizing a disease, businesses shuttering) is much more dystopian IMO.

[Hondaracer]

Well in any fiction novel it would seem those two would go hand in hand no? Lol

[SkinnyPupp]

What kind of dystopian fiction are you guys reading? Getting a vaccine and then telling people about it so you can patronize their business for a year, maybe 2 tops, so we can get back to normal is hardly the stuff of nightmares.

The reality we live in now (lockdown/half-measures, anti-mask protests, politicizing a disease, businesses shuttering) is much more dystopian IMO.
IMO it's dystopian in that it will create a huge divide in society - vaccinated vs unvaccinated. Add to that the fact that this division will be traceable via something like an ID card, or more likely a phone app, makes it also look like something you'd see in dystopian sci-fi.

Picture the scenario someone pointed out above, the idea being totally reasonable to have to scan your phone or show a card to be allowed to go to into a restaurant or to see a movie.

It's a logical solution, and like I said a lot of people are going to accept it. And it's not something like a social credit score or anything like that. But it's still eerily similar to what you think of when you consider a dystopian future. Also what if some people can't get access to a vaccine for whatever reason? Maybe there will be issues where some vaccines are better than others, or some make certain people sick? We don't know anything yet. And Canadians will be covered, but what about countries where people would have to pay for the vaccine themselves? In that case, there will be many who can't afford it.

Also, once the tracing and splitting up and tracing society starts, do you think it will stop there? Or will society move towards tracing more things? Things like this usually only go in one direction.

[Obsideon]

I'm probably gonna get fails but if given the choice I for one would vote to bring the hammer down hard and get it over with.
What's 1 month of complete total lockdown (EVERYTHING shutdown), need permit to leave the house, etc) compared to this current situation of dragging this on for 10 months and counting? ...
I had a discussion with a friend (over the phone of course lolz) and the best example is... would you rather take 1 hard swift kick in the nuts and be done with it or would you prefer to take a punch to the gut every month for the rest of the year?

[SumAznGuy]

717 new cases with 11 deaths.

[welfare]

I'm probably gonna get fails but if given the choice I for one would vote to bring the hammer down hard and get it over with.
What's 1 month of complete total lockdown (EVERYTHING shutdown), need permit to leave the house, etc) compared to this current situation of dragging this on for 10 months and counting? ...
I had a discussion with a friend (over the phone of course lolz) and the best example is... would you rather take 1 hard swift kick in the nuts and be done with it or would you prefer to take a punch to the gut every month for the rest of the year?

But it's not going to be done with after a month. There's no reason why it wouldn't just come back once things open up again

[Ch28]

https://archive.news.gov.bc.ca/releases/news_releases_2017-2021/2020HLTH0061-001943.htm

VICTORIA – Dr. Bonnie Henry, B.C.’s provincial health officer, and Adrian Dix, Minister of Health, have issued the following joint statement regarding updates on the novel coronavirus (COVID-19) response in British Columbia:

“Today, we are reporting 717 new cases of COVID-19, including one epi-linked case, for a total of 23,661 cases in British Columbia.

“There are 6,589 active cases of COVID-19 in the province. There are 198 individuals currently hospitalized with COVID-19, 63 of whom are in intensive care. The remaining people are recovering at home in self-isolation.

“Currently, 10,960 people are under active public health monitoring as a result of identified exposure to known cases and 16,469 people who tested positive have recovered.

“We have had 177 new cases of COVID-19 in the Vancouver Coastal Health region, 484 in the Fraser Health region, 16 in the Island Health region, 18 in the Interior Health region, 21 in the Northern Health region and one new case of a person who resides outside of Canada.

“There have been 11 new COVID-19 related deaths, for a total of 310 deaths in British Columbia. We offer our condolences to everyone who has lost their loved ones during the COVID-19 pandemic.

“We have one new health-care facility outbreak at Tsawaayuss-Rainbow Gardens in the Island Health region. There have been no new community outbreaks.

“We need everyone working together to stay small, stay local and help us slow the spread of COVID-19 in our province.

“The biggest impact you can make is through the small actions you take every day.

“Just as we put on our jackets to keep us warm in the rain and snow, so too are our COVID-19 safety layers there to protect all of us. Washing your hands, keeping a safe distance and always wearing a mask in places where you are around people you don’t know – these things make a difference.

“We have seen an increase in new cases on Vancouver Island, in the Interior and in the North, many of which are connected to travel to and from the Lower Mainland. That is why is it important that we stay local and travel less right now.

“When we spend time inside with people from outside of our household, our work group or school cohort, the risks increase for everyone. Instead, let’s stay connected virtually and make it a safer winter for all of us.”

[pastarocket]

C'mon Dr. Bonnie, and Horgan, take decisive action! Our daily Covid cases are going up at a scary rate! :heckno:

We need curfews at night for at least a week to flatten the curve.

From what my American cousins in Arizona state tell me, their two curfews this year from 8pm to 5am for two periods of one week each helped flatten their curve.

[welfare]

IMO it's dystopian in that it will create a huge divide in society - vaccinated vs unvaccinated. Add to that the fact that this division will be traceable via something like an ID card, or more likely a phone app, makes it also look like something you'd see in dystopian sci-fi.

Picture the scenario someone pointed out above, the idea being totally reasonable to have to scan your phone or show a card to be allowed to go to into a restaurant or to see a movie.

It's a logical solution, and like I said a lot of people are going to accept it. And it's not something like a social credit score or anything like that. But it's still eerily similar to what you think of when you consider a dystopian future. Also what if some people can't get access to a vaccine for whatever reason? Maybe there will be issues where some vaccines are better than others, or some make certain people sick? We don't know anything yet.

Also, once the tracing and splitting up and tracing society starts, do you think it will stop there? Or will society move towards tracing more things? Things like this usually only go in one direction.

It's going to create serious social issues, IMO.
Look how split people have become just over masks. And that's only a piece of cloth. Vaccines will be the same only amplified

[MG1]

Last time I was at Walmart, back in June, their machines didn't accept tap.
You had to touch the key pad to enter your code. Ewww

Well, I’ll be a Gorilla’s nephew.................. I just came out of the Walmart on Grandview Hwy. Cancel the call for all Karen’s. The self serve checkouts now have tap. I even used my Amex card and it worked. Like I said, “I’ll be a monkey’s uncle.”

I did have my gloves in my pocket. Didn’t need to whip it out.

[inv4zn]

Social aspects aside, the word dystopia actually means an unjust society or one with great suffering. The stuff from Orwell and Bradbury (or Hunger Games) could be called one, but that's heavily leaning on the fact that everyone's life is controlled by the state, and essentially your freedom is given up.

With vaccines, many countries require kids to get shots before being allowed into school, with a few exemptions (medical, religious, whatever) - is that dystopian?

My 7 month old has a little handheld booklet the doctor fills out. She doesn't have any chips in her body (seriously, what a stupid thing to even bring up at this point), nor is she in some government database with credits added to her name so she can travel out of the city.

Watching a movie, or even international travel for leisure isn't really a right either. Private business can do what they want as long as it doesn't violate the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms.

You want to look at a real life dystopia, just look at China. That's what a near-dystopian future looks like and it's scary af that we all live on the same planet. But to say what we face here in Canada as dystopian is pretty entitled, and pretty stupid.

[Obsideon]

But it's not going to be done with after a month. There's no reason why it wouldn't just come back once things open up again

Start with that at least and see how it goes. For sure it beats the hell out of this wishy-washy shit that hasn't worked all year and clearly will not work going forward.
Bonnie is just starting to sound like a nagging nanny at this point ... "children please put your dishes in the sink, kids please wash your hands, please don't share popsicles at recess, please don't stick your finger in Billy's ear".
As mentioned before by numerous people on here, the people following the rules ALREADY are and nothings changed, and the people that are NOT following will continue to do so no matter how many times Bonnie 'suggests' we follow the her recommendations.

Even a small sample size of our restaurant, ever since the new regulations from last Saturday, nothing has changed. I can still clearly tell there are groups of people not from the same household (group of 6 men in their 50's), but there's no way any restaurant can (or wants to) enforce it.

[RiceIntegraRS]

I'm probably gonna get fails but if given the choice I for one would vote to bring the hammer down hard and get it over with.
What's 1 month of complete total lockdown (EVERYTHING shutdown), need permit to leave the house, etc) compared to this current situation of dragging this on for 10 months and counting? ...
I had a discussion with a friend (over the phone of course lolz) and the best example is... would you rather take 1 hard swift kick in the nuts and be done with it or would you prefer to take a punch to the gut every month for the rest of the year?

Lock everything down already. Im getting sick and tired of doing my part to help flatten the curve for what? 9 months now? while theres a portion of the population not giving a fuck. Im getting to the point where it doesnt matter what i do, the country is doomed with the wishy washy leadership and this super laxed enforcement.

[twitchyzero]

11 deaths/day now
lock it down

[Hondaracer]

Well if people don’t listen to the no mixed house holds messages, are they going to listen to a curfew message?

I’ve literally heard the reasoning for not adhering to the staying within your own household argument because “you can’t get fined”

Are the people who need the severe messaging even going to be receiving it? Who is going to enforce it?

Frankly over time I think that even regular people who have been following the rules will eventually start saying fuck it and getting together with friends etc. Because even people with few friends etc will get tired of this. I know I am

I get it that doing SOMTHING is better than the current state but I’m not sure how effective it will be

[Obsideon]

Monetary fines will work.
Do you think Vancouver will be fine if they suddenly changed the stance to "Please try and refrain from speeding as we feel it could be dangerous, Stop signs are just a suggestion. Try not to use your phone while driving, Seatbelts are recommended"

[Teriyaki]

But it's not going to be done with after a month. There's no reason why it wouldn't just come back once things open up again

Yes it'll likely come back, but you'll be starting with a much much lower case load so it's tracable and managable, maybe even could be fully isolated so it's no longer out in the wild. It's like a circuit breaker, or like a c-c-c-c-combo breaker for those that dwell on the internet a little too much. You can handle a light jab or kick, but when you're spinning in the air with your pants down after getting shit kicked in the face with 6 hadokets, you want the combo to stop. Exponential growth is a combo multiplier against us.

[Hondaracer]

Monetary fines will work.
Do you think Vancouver will be fine if they suddenly changed the stance to "Please try and refrain from speeding as we feel it could be dangerous, Stop signs are just a suggestion. Try not to use your phone while driving, Seatbelts are recommended"

Is this type of thing even possible?

[SumAznGuy]

I get it that doing SOMTHING is better than the current state but I’m not sure how effective it will be

More than just that. Canada needs to do more about forcing people returning from other countries to quarantine. They need to close the loop hole that families can go to Peace Arch Park and have tent sex with their significant others or force them to quarantine for 14 days.

Then we can talk about shutting everything down ACROSS CANADA.
No point in shutting things down in BC and then have someone with the virus come over another province. The maritime provinces and territories up north are only getting cases because of travel and a prime example we need Justin Timberlake to do more.

Just saw on the news, a home owner has been fine $2300 for hosting a poker game in his garage and had other non family guest in his house. This was the second time. First time they were given a warning.

[twitchyzero]

horgan speaking tomorrow morning

https://twitter.com/richardzussman/status/1328844806273961985

hammer time?

[CivicBlues]

IMO it's dystopian in that it will create a huge divide in society - vaccinated vs unvaccinated. Add to that the fact that this division will be traceable via something like an ID card, or more likely a phone app, makes it also look like something you'd see in dystopian sci-fi.

Picture the scenario someone pointed out above, the idea being totally reasonable to have to scan your phone or show a card to be allowed to go to into a restaurant or to see a movie.

It's a logical solution, and like I said a lot of people are going to accept it. And it's not something like a social credit score or anything like that. But it's still eerily similar to what you think of when you consider a dystopian future. Also what if some people can't get access to a vaccine for whatever reason? Maybe there will be issues where some vaccines are better than others, or some make certain people sick? We don't know anything yet. And Canadians will be covered, but what about countries where people would have to pay for the vaccine themselves? In that case, there will be many who can't afford it.

Also, once the tracing and splitting up and tracing society starts, do you think it will stop there? Or will society move towards tracing more things? Things like this usually only go in one direction.

Anyone who wants a vaccine should get one within a set period of time (say 2-years). If you can't, you can apply for an exemption card (these exist for the Yellow Fever vaccine) from your doctor. If you're just being a difficult anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist, then you're forced to wear a mask. Or your ass is out the door. Simple as that.

No chips, no QR codes, no RFID, no tracking. A simple piece of paper with your name on it signed and notarized by a medical authority. Will some idiots try to forge one? Sure, but most decent people won't and get the shot.

We do this until the baseline of infections drop to negligible/manageable levels.

How is this much different than what all you people clamoring for a "mask mandate"?

[MG1]

More than just that. Canada needs to do more about forcing people returning from other countries to quarantine.

Speaking of which, what ever happened to the OP?

[SkinnyPupp]

Anyone who wants a vaccine should get one within a set period of time (say 2-years). If you can't, you can apply for an exemption card (these exist for the Yellow Fever vaccine) from your doctor. If you're just being a difficult anti-vaxxer conspiracy theorist, then you're forced to wear a mask. Or your ass is out the door. Simple as that.

No chips, no QR codes, no RFID, no tracking. A simple piece of paper with your name on it signed and notarized by a medical authority. Will some idiots try to forge one? Sure, but most decent people won't and get the shot.

We do this until the baseline of infections drop to negligible/manageable levels.

How is this much different than what all you people clamoring for a "mask mandate"?
It's not much different, that's kind of the point. This whole year has been a gigantic leap into dystopia. And now we're talking about tracking and ostracizing people who don't join in on that leap.

(Also not arguing whether being anti mask or anti vaccine is right or wrong here, that's beside the point)

[1337]

This is the first I've heard that she gets too much credit. She's able to keep a sound mind, level head, and able to share the facts to the general public, without being overtly scientific, while still being compassionate.

There is a reason why not every doctor can just go out there and speak with the media; there is media training for every level of professionals, and media training in healthcare is no different. You have to have a proper balance of facts (that is backed up by science), being able to express in a way that people listen, and be calm and respectful to the public.

I don't listen to Trump talk much, but last week I listened to a speech of his. Then I listened to Dr. Henry and Adrian Dix speak. Night and Day difference.

East Asian influence, I'm gonna say straight up, is bullshit. I'm Chinese, lived in Vancouver all my life, born and raised. East Asian influence doesn't have anything to do with following the rules - to be blunt, take a look at any/all the Mainlanders who don't follow the rules in Canada. The only Asian culture that I can say that has a "we" more than "I" mentality, is Japanese culture. Chinese people are straight up selfish. Following the rules isn't from being East Asian, it's from general Canadian values of compassion, kindness, helping each other out, and not being a dick.

Curious as to what your thoughts are now that this was 6.months ago?

[twitchyzero]

sry too busy painting public mural of dr henry

[twitchyzero]

A simple piece of paper with your name on it signed and notarized by a medical authority. Will some idiots try to forge one? Sure, but most decent people won't and get the shot.

We do this until the baseline of infections drop to negligible/manageable levels.

How is this much different than what all you people clamoring for a "mask mandate"?

mask mandate is not unlike 'no shirt/shoes, no service'

but discrimination against health status is a whole another touchy subject (ie the stigma around aids/hiv, mental illness etc)

and let's say the vaccine paper admission is employed: it's still not sure fire. Why not go one step further and have proof of antibody titers every 3mos?

[StylinRed]

Is this type of thing even possible?

It was possible in Australia, heavy fines,and even jail time, people still flouted the rules here n there, but almost everybody fell in line, especially after examples were made, and now Victoria (state) is in the clear

There's an outbreak in the state of South Australia now and they're locking down the outbreak is just 14 ppl in size

[spoon.ek9]

I just wanted to add, if this were truly a dystopia, what you would see is the government rounding up every single person in the country and forcefully giving them the vaccine despite any objections whether just or unjust. That's clearly not what's going to happen here.

Should you choose to abstain, then you face some very logical, reasonable and understandable consequences. These may include not being able to go to school, not being able to travel, not being able to join leagues, etc. It isn't about ostracizing people, these are businesses and societal functions protecting themselves from harm for the greater good. It's especially important for businesses because the #1 priority is for customers to feel safe again in their establishments and the ability to operate at full capacity.

With that being said, I have faith that the vast majority of our society is smart enough to trust the science and take the vaccine. Everyone wants things to go back to normal ASAP; literally everyone. We can't cater to the extreme minority that will be against the vaccine for whatever reason. As mentioned by others, they'll have to continue to wear masks/face shields and face the consequences for their choice until things are deemed under control.

[welfare]

Well, myself personally, i doubt I'd take it. And not because of some Orwellian theory about microchips.
I just can't trust a vaccine developed in this short a period. Sorry.

[spoon.ek9]

and that's your choice, which is how a free country operates. now, I hope you will take the time to at least read the study and understand the process as to why it would be safe (assuming no hiccups from now until roll out). when it comes to vaccines, the data either supports it or it doesn't. there's no in between. if they are indeed 90-95% effective than i cannot see a legitimate reason to abstain but again, that's your choice.

[Hondaracer]

There is not going to be no data whether it is safe long term or not. No one that takes it will know the long term effects if any

[westopher]

Yet people who give that as a reason to abstain from the vaccine, don't have that same fear of THE VIRUS ITSELF.
The mindset of if you don't die, everything is just fine again, which clearly hasn't been the case.

[Hondaracer]

If we put aside the “long term health effects” which are mostly unknown at this point, it could be very serious, it could be very minimal long term, the data here kinda shows that if you’re under 50, you don’t have much to worry about, this data is as of Nov 17th.

https://i.imgur.com/H4MusEf.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/tNpNZu8.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/gyVA2h6.jpg

Of the 310 deaths in BC, 237 (85%) have been over 70

The largest percentile group of deaths (40%+) comes in the 80-89 age, which is actually older than the average live expectancy in BC (79.5 years)

If you add in the 60-69 crowd, you have 94% of the deaths.

No one under 39 has died, which makes up almost 50% of the province (47%)

These numbers are obviously not reported directly through the media for a reason.

This doesn’t take away from the strain on the healthcare sustem and all the other things we’ve discussed at naseum.

Also, the age groups which test positive the most also have the least deaths and least ICU admissions.

[RRxtar]

Like was said before. It's funny the people who will be the first in line for a vaccine disregarding any long term risks but are also the ones full of fear about the unknown possible long term effects of being one of the few people who actually get covid symptoms

[twitchyzero]

is the vaccine radically different than the influenza one though?

that should give you an indication of the possible undesirable effects

[StylinRed]

That's old data tho we've had ppl under 39 die, but yes, I see your point

is the vaccine radically different than the influenza one though?

that should give you an indication of the possible undesirable effects

The covid vaccines will be the first ever to be made using mRNA, so who knows what's in store long term

And we do have those two incidences of transverse myelitis from astrazenecas vaccine, one case of which was dismissed cuz the test subject had undiagnosed MS not sure of the other

Edit: also Russia's vaccine that was approved back in August has a 92% efficacy

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54905330

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-54982910

We could've had covid taken care of for months now, but the west decided holding out for NA companies to profit over Russia was worth ppl dying